socialized medicine is necessary

1.it's as simple as this people. our companies will not be able to compete with the companies in other countries simply because they have to pay for healthcare in the us, companies will either start moving out of here, or they will lobby for this.
 
2. we do have socialized things here, socialism is not bad, when in moderation. some examples are, schools, fire department, police, colleges, the military(this is a big one people don't realize), public highways, parks, libraries, and already medicare
 
3. the money is there. we're just not willing to spend it. how many billions of dollars were wasted on a bailout that could have been instead spent on a healthcare bill that would have actually done soemthing?

1. Companies being incentivized (and in some states, forced) to provide healthcare for employees is an example of socialized medicine already existing in the U.S.. As well as medicare and medicaid. 2 programs which will be 34 trillion dollars underfunded in the coming decades. The money to pay for it will be taxed or inflated, but either way, it won't be "free" healthcare. (It never was.).
 
2. Private education is widely known to be superior to public education throughout most of the world. The notion that the military is "socialized" is completely ludicrous. A "private" military is an armed gang. Capitalists are not opposed to the existence of national defence.
 
3. No, the money is not there. The U.S. government is trillions of dollars in debt, and will be trillions of more dollars in debt in the future. The way your government pays for these shortfalls is through inflation, a process which hurts the poor the most. The bailout was a bad idea, you create a false dichotomy by saying "the government should spend money on healthcare, not failing banks." Your government should be doing NEITHER.
 
The socialism already extant within your country's economy needs to be excised from the government before it sinks your nation even further.

I would just like to point out that americas healthcare is ranked something like 30th in the world

just quit spending billions of dollars in ways to destroy humanity and we will be fine.

"just quit spending billions of dollars in ways to destroy humanity and we will be fine. "

" just quit spending billions of dollars in ways to destroy humanity and we will be fine. "

I live in the UK and the NHS is the reason that my Wife (who had the the most aggressive form of Cancer) and Daughter (who suffered acute Kidney failure) are alive. It may not be perfect but it works and it's the one thing my country cherishes. If nothing else we see healthcare as a right not a privilege. The small amount that comes out of my wages each month that goes to the NHS is money well spent, we just want it spent more effectively and not wasted on middle management.
 
The US really needs to stop throwing the word Socialism around and using it as a label carefree. It really isn't helping maters.

" 1. Companies being incentivized (and in some states, forced) to provide healthcare for employees is an example of socialized medicine already existing in the U.S.. As well as medicare and medicaid. 2 programs which will be 34 trillion dollars underfunded in the coming decades. The money to pay for it will be taxed or inflated, but either way, it won't be "free" healthcare. (It never was.).  2. Private education is widely known to be superior to public education throughout most of the world. The notion that the military is "socialized" is completely ludicrous. A "private" military is an armed gang. Capitalists are not opposed to the existence of national defence.  3. No, the money is not there. The U.S. government is trillions of dollars in debt, and will be trillions of more dollars in debt in the future. The way your government pays for these shortfalls is through inflation, a process which hurts the poor the most. The bailout was a bad idea, you create a false dichotomy by saying "the government should spend money on healthcare, not failing banks." Your government should be doing NEITHER. The socialism already extant within your country's economy needs to be excised from the government before it sinks your nation even further. "

Private healthcare provides the best standard of care for those who can afford it/insurance.
Public healthcare provides a reduced standard of healthcare for everyone same for education.
Personally  speaking  a system in which everyone can get a good level of treatment is better than one in which many people can get none.
 
However it comes at a cost of high taxes, and that will never happen in the states outside of MA. The US cannot afford socialized healthcare at this time. The UK cannot afford its pension scheme you will have to work until you are as old as Methuslah.
 
I dont want education and healthcare to be open to market pressures of profit and cost. Companies cut costs. Companies are very evil and very useful.

This option was already taken off the table, in fact so was the public option. Now they're talking public option triggers, which is fucking dumb. The dems need to grow a backbone, the right somehow is still running the country.

I've actually seen someone claim healthcare is already free because they don't turn you away at the ER. So much ignorance. That's like saying a car is free because there's no down payment.

  @pirate_republic said:

" @Suicrat said:

" 1. Companies being incentivized (and in some states, forced) to provide healthcare for employees is an example of socialized medicine already existing in the U.S.. As well as medicare and medicaid. 2 programs which will be 34 trillion dollars underfunded in the coming decades. The money to pay for it will be taxed or inflated, but either way, it won't be "free" healthcare. (It never was.).  2. Private education is widely known to be superior to public education throughout most of the world. The notion that the military is "socialized" is completely ludicrous. A "private" military is an armed gang. Capitalists are not opposed to the existence of national defence.  3. No, the money is not there. The U.S. government is trillions of dollars in debt, and will be trillions of more dollars in debt in the future. The way your government pays for these shortfalls is through inflation, a process which hurts the poor the most. The bailout was a bad idea, you create a false dichotomy by saying "the government should spend money on healthcare, not failing banks." Your government should be doing NEITHER. The socialism already extant within your country's economy needs to be excised from the government before it sinks your nation even further. "

Everything you said is true... for the rich. If you have money, than private education is superior. If you have money, private health care is superior. If you don't have money, then you can't go to school, and you can't get treated. That's the difference between the two systems. One caters to the rich, the other to everyone (the rich are still rich, so they're happy, the poor can spend their limited money on other things so they're happy).  The problem is that a third of the American population does not have money. "

" @Suicrat: You keep mentioning this whole thing about debt. Sure, with public health care you always pay taxes, and with private, you are in debt only for a short while. This is fucking retarded.  You are already in debt:You are already paying taxes. This just increases said taxes a small amount. You will always need health care so you will always pay for it.  Everyone can afford an extra 1% on their taxes. Not everyone can afford 40 000$ for a minor operation, and if they take out a loan, they'll never pay it off. "

" @Suicrat: The poorest wouldn't have gotten ANY education if it wasn't public. The middle class get the same education as they would if it was private. The upper class get a diminished education. It balances itself out.  Although I do agree with you about what is to be done about the US's troubles. "

Quit stealin' Suie! Rawr!

   @pirate_republic said:

" @Suicrat: The poorest wouldn't have gotten ANY education if it wasn't public. The middle class get the same education as they would if it was private. The upper class get a diminished education. It balances itself out.  Although I do agree with you about what is to be done about the US's troubles. "

" WOW, STFU with branding shit as socialized if it's isn't heavily privitized. Seriously are you Americans that stupid that you didn't realize the Cold War ended nearly 2 motherfucking decades ago? I know your politicians are mostly responsible for being fear mongering shit eating fuck heads, but that's not excuse for going ahead and actually believing them. "

" WOW, STFU with branding shit as socialized if it's isn't heavily privitized. Seriously are you Americans that stupid that you didn't realize the Cold War ended nearly 2 motherfucking decades ago? I know your politicians are mostly responsible for being fear mongering shit eating fuck heads, but that's not excuse for going ahead and actually believing them. "

" @RsistncE said:

" WOW, STFU with branding shit as socialized if it's isn't heavily privitized. Seriously are you Americans that stupid that you didn't realize the Cold War ended nearly 2 motherfucking decades ago? I know your politicians are mostly responsible for being fear mongering shit eating fuck heads, but that's not excuse for going ahead and actually believing them. "

See, right here is the most fucked up thing. People on the left realize just how corrupt and evil politicians are, yet they want them to hold the purse strings on fundamental matters such as education and healthcare. I don't fucking get it. "

  @ryanwho: I don't associate it with anyone in particular, but a society of all being enslaved to all. The trillions of dollars in debt that have already come about, and will in the future come about because of the desire for socialized medicine is not worth what you're getting.
 
Healthcare doesn't get produced out of thin air. It costs resources, effort, time, and money. You can't make these issues go away with the signing of a government cheque. The world isn't that simple. Governments are not omnipotent.

  @ieatlions said:

" @Suicrat said:

" @RsistncE said:

" WOW, STFU with branding shit as socialized if it's isn't heavily privitized. Seriously are you Americans that stupid that you didn't realize the Cold War ended nearly 2 motherfucking decades ago? I know your politicians are mostly responsible for being fear mongering shit eating fuck heads, but that's not excuse for going ahead and actually believing them. "

See, right here is the most fucked up thing. People on the left realize just how corrupt and evil politicians are, yet they want them to hold the purse strings on fundamental matters such as education and healthcare. I don't fucking get it. "

You vote for your evil corrupt politicians you don't have a say in the "evil corrupt" corporations. "

" 1.it's as simple as this people. our companies will not be able to compete with the companies in other countries simply because they have to pay for healthcare in the us, companies will either start moving out of here, or they will lobby for this.   

  2. we do have socialized things here, socialism is not bad, when in moderation. some examples are, schools, fire department, police, colleges, the military(this is a big one people don't realize), public highways, parks, libraries, and already medicare    

  3. the money is there. we're just not willing to spend it. how many billions of dollars were wasted on a bailout that could have been instead spent on a healthcare bill that would have actually done soemthing? "

" I live in the UK and the NHS is the reason that my Wife (who had the the most aggressive form of Cancer) and Daughter (who suffered acute Kidney failure) are alive. It may not be perfect but it works and it's the one thing my country cherishes. If nothing else we see healthcare as a right not a privilege. The small amount that comes out of my wages each month that goes to the NHS is money well spent, we just want it spent more effectively and not wasted on middle management.  The US really needs to stop throwing the word Socialism around and using it as a label carefree. It really isn't helping maters. "

" @Mikemcn said:

"The money is not there, we are several TRILLION dollars in debt! We cannot keep imagining that we have all this money! WE DON'T! We cannot do things like this until we clear up some of that debt. We keep borrowing it from China and other growing world powers, which allows them to build schools, to train more and more workers that are smarter and better prepared for the current world economy. I don't care if alot of people don't have healthcare, in the long run, everyone's going to suffer from all this debt.  Im an american, and yes i already have healthcare so my view is skewed a bit, but i don't like how we are building a foundation on something that doesn't even exist. "

healthcare is a basic human need that everyone has a right to regardless of their personal economic situation, we need free healthcare, if we dont it will bankrupt the nation. Just my 2 Cents. Oh yeah and legalize pot- big money there. "

" @Suicrat: Buddy, I'm not even fucking American. Just to make something clear for you: the rest of the world isn't so fucked in the head that everything they do, in every second, of every day needs to be categorized by political affiliation. I'm just telling you everyone outside of the US is really baffled at the shitstorm of idiocy going on in that country. Not surprisingly people have been baffled many times over the years at the shitstorm of idiocy that generally seems to thrive in the US. "

I love me some NHS. I don't know how people could live with a system like America's and it's even weirder to me when they make out the NHS to be something bad.

" I wonder who honestly believes that the US will ever be able to pay back it's debt. I mean it's 11.4 trillion $. That's almost the GDP from the US in 2008. "

" @Suicrat: No I won't address that, because first of all I'm not a US citizen. Second of all, you are the makers of your own demise. The US has been a cesspool for everything that is wrong in the first world ever since the end of WW2. Fact of the matter is providing life saving health care to everyone in a VERY affordable manner should trump things like, oh you know, DROPPING BOMBS ON THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES AND KILLING THEIR PEOPLE. Just a thought. "

people are much better off health wise where there is free or nearly free health care. "