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#1 Posted by Buckwatters (141 posts) -

So I just finished watching Prometheus (midnight showing on the west coast), and one thing is bothering me, did Ridley Scott retcon "Alien?" The ending of Prometheus does not have the space jockey in the chair that the audience sees it sitting on in the beginning of Alien, but rather in another ship altogether. I'm wondering what you guys think of this? Am I over-analyzing the ending or did Scott mess up the ending to Prometheus?

...or, was that scene inserted by the studio? Sorry, that thought just popped into my head.

#2 Posted by Doctorchimp (4076 posts) -

I don't know how you don't see an Alien Reboot coming...

But hey guess what you're gonna see an Alien Reboot pretty soon.

#3 Posted by Buckwatters (141 posts) -

@Doctorchimp: True, but I'd rather keep my head in the sand about an Alien reboot and just hope it doesn't happen.

#4 Posted by VierasTalo (782 posts) -
#5 Posted by daz31572 (8 posts) -

@Buckwatters: Wow that exact same thing bothered me! I have no idea though.

#6 Posted by Buckwatters (141 posts) -

@VierasTalo: You're right! I must have overlooked that by the time the movie had ended.

#7 Posted by JBird (489 posts) -

@Buckwatters: Well on the Radio 5 film review show Mark Kermode interviewed Ridley about this film and where it fits in. Ridley stated that this film is a prequel to the Alien franchise, but there is another 2 films between this one and the beginning of Alien, moreover the events that take place in Prometheus is not the same planet as the events that take place in Alien. This is not the start of a reboot rather it is the beginning of a new pretrilogy, the likes of which we haven't seen since the phantom menace! (although i would argue that prometheus is a far greater start to a trilogy than the phantom menace!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jyxZBuWSXM Hope that helps!

#8 Posted by HistoryInRust (6316 posts) -

Not even the same planet. 

#9 Posted by chu52 (244 posts) -

Soooooo I watched it, though the ending was busted at the theater I went to so got my money back, which made me happy because it was basically Alien (1979), but with a worse monster. Like I had trouble caring because I saw that movie before.

Though I did enjoy the nuance and subtlety when her abortion killed god.
#10 Posted by EXTomar (4737 posts) -

I dunno...I thought it was more like the Engineers spawning something and seeking to destroy what they gave birth too running in parallel.

#11 Posted by believer258 (11914 posts) -

@chu52 said:

Soooooo I watched it, though the ending was busted at the theater I went to so got my money back, which made me happy because it was basically Alien (1979), but with a worse monster. Like I had trouble caring because I saw that movie before.

Though I did enjoy the nuance and subtlety when her abortion killed god.

Good catch, there in your spoiler, but remember that the main character didn't lose her (rather underplayed) faith in God either. So the movie's position on that seems to be rather ambiguous still, unless it somehow villifies Shaw.

Anyway, I wish they would have let the plot end good and proper, with a chestburster coming out of the Space Jockey thing while it's sitting in the big chair on LV426. Yes, different planet and different alien and different chestburster and all, but as it stands it leaves questions as to how the xenomorph even got to LV426 in the first place and it makes even less sense narratively because that's what they seemed to be building up to, only to avert it completely. It's implying that the first one was born from the Space Jockey that died there, and it's never been implied that xenomorphs can fly spaceships, so how did it get there? Really, it just seemed like the movie kind of dropped off at the end. As if Scott said "Yeah, that's all the plot points I wanted to show, let's wrap this thing up real quick and go get a burger". For that matter, the whole movie seemed like a slightly disjointed series of events rather than a cohesive plot.

#12 Posted by chu52 (244 posts) -

Now if the movie was all about the geologist I would have been giving a ten minute standing ovation

#13 Edited by MC_Hify (336 posts) -

What I don't get is why David even bothered slipping Holloway the black ooze. The reason they were there was to meet their makers, I can't fathom how infecting him would help them with that goal.

#14 Posted by Akyho (1652 posts) -

@chu52 said:

Soooooo because it was basically Alien (1979), but with a worse monster. Like I had trouble caring because I saw that movie before.

d god.

You missed the point of this film. Feel free to not like the film. However it is not trying to be Alien it is trying to explain Alien and the Alien Pilot. It dosnt matter to you. However to others and like myself I am already vested into the Alien back-story long before this.

I already know alot of the back story to Alien long before Prometheus was announced. So when my friend's surprisingly said "lets got see Prometheus!" I was onboard and made sure they did. They were confused about the film since it was a prequel to Alien...while also it wasn't a Prequel to Alien. As we waited for the showing we sat in McDonalds, I explained its the story of the Space Jockey's. They looked blank at me ofcourse.

Space Jockeys are the master's of Bio engineering who developed the Xenomorph/Alien as the perfect weapon. Something happened to the ship, A face hugger or such implanted the pilot. Its crashed and rolls onto the Nostromo being manipulated to investigate the planet LV-426. Now Weyland-Yutani KNEW about the ship and then set this ship off so it would go close to it and then the Android would change the cords and have it come in contact and find out all the information and bring back a Specimen...as if they KNEW everything.

So half of that story is filled with Alien the movie. I sat down and watched it and when they got the planet I already marked "LV-223" ? Thats not...right. Watched the movie and it all definitely wasn't the same planet and wasn't the same events as to what lead's onto the Nostromo being manipulated. The ship is landed diffrently. The planet is diffrent. And you would thing comes Aliens the colony would have noticed those Space Jockey structures.

So aside from how the a Proto Alien has came about. I know very little extra about the Space Jockeys/Engineers. However to people who are completely not invested as I or other's. This may every well have just blown them on the Space Jockeys.

However as a film without any of this. I still enjoyed it alot.

#15 Edited by JeanLuc (3584 posts) -

Lot of plot holes and zero resolution created a disappointing ending. That being said I still really loved most of this movie including the atmosphere.

#16 Posted by boj4ngles (287 posts) -

@runcrash said:

What I don't get is why David even bothered slipping Holloway the black ooze. The reason they were there was to meet their makers, I can't fathom how infecting him would help them with that goal.

I too was puzzled at first about this. I still don't totally understand David's motivations but I think it's worth remembering what he said right before infecting Holloway. He asked him what he was willing to do, what lengths he would go to in order to learn the truth. Holloway's answer was anything and everything. That may have been all the permission David needed in order to overcome ethical constraints.

#17 Posted by csl316 (8680 posts) -

I really enjoyed it and wondered the same thing about the space jockey not being in his seat. But I guess I assumed it was the same planet. Seems I gotta rewatch Alien.

Online
#18 Posted by Akyho (1652 posts) -

@runcrash said:

What I don't get is why David even bothered slipping Holloway the black ooze. The reason they were there was to meet their makers, I can't fathom how infecting him would help them with that goal.

I think it was in one part to show David was hurt by Holloway always picking on him for being an Android. Or more so experiment and see if this ooze could make Weyland healthier and immortal. As that was the main part of the mission. Weyland wanted to meet the Engineers and get them to make him immortal.

@believer258 said:

It's implying that the first one was born from the Space Jockey that died there,

Its actually more complicated than that...Halloway is infected with the black ooze. Which I guess is a biological substance that binds to genetic material and make an aggressive predator. So using the genetic material to adapt to the local life. Halloway was infected with it, he then impregnated Shaw with a fetus made up of his DNA which is 100% match for Space Jockey/Engineer DNA...while also made up of the Black ooze that changed genetics. Which later it turns out to be a Giant killer squid? which it then impregnates a Space Jockey and the theory of Aliens for years. Is they take on a certain amount of Genetic material and traits from their host. Why the Alien in Alien 3 is more Dog like and not as smart as previous Aliens.

So the final Proto Alien burst from the Space Jockey almost fully formed. So its made up of Bio goo....that has human DNA fused with human DNA and then fused with Space Jockey DNA which is...human DNA......

#19 Edited by CakeBomb (219 posts) -

As an Alien nut, this movie was good but way too confusing. It was like an omelet of elements bubbling around, none of them explained or developed to make any sense.

Why did the black goo do to them? Why vases and not eggs? Why an octopus-like facehugger that grew to room size? Why was the Engineer immediately hostile? Where did the alien that escaped when they rolled over the body go? So many things left unfinished. It's a movie I'd like to see with exclusive Ridley audio commentary, to understand something.

On a side note, watched Alien today and that movie still holds up, even with the retro-futuristic aesthetic.

#20 Posted by fulcilivez (83 posts) -

When scott first started making this movie it started out as a two movie alien prequel. Somewhere along the way he decided to rewrite it as a movie that borrowed some DNA from the alien universe. That's when Damon LIndelof came in to help rewrite it. That's the problem people are having with the movie. They think it's going to be another alien movie. When it's a movie about faith and the space jockey's.

#21 Posted by fulcilivez (83 posts) -

@CakeBomb: My theory

The reason for vases and not eggs is, the space jockey's was going to drop them from the ship. Why risk having eggs on the ship that could hatch at anytime? With the vases you can at least keep them trapped inside. To much of a risk to land ship and plant these eggs everywhere. Easier just to drop the vases from mid air and infect the planet.

#22 Posted by cmpLtNOOb (195 posts) -

@fulcilivez: The reason I think they were vases and not eggs is because the black goo itself, is the earliest form of the xenomorph, basically as a single celled organism. The eggs from Alien held fully grown facehuggers, which wasn't necessarily what the engineers meant to grow, but what developed as the goo evolved with the DNA it merged with. I think the events of Prometheus, as they relate to the Alien franchise, basically set up how the facehuggers and fully grown xenomorphs came to look and act the way they do farther in the future.

#23 Posted by Apparatus_Unearth (3154 posts) -

Great movie, and a great tie-in to the rest of the series.

#24 Posted by scottp (240 posts) -

lv-223 not lv-426

#25 Posted by believer258 (11914 posts) -

@Akyho said:

@runcrash said:

What I don't get is why David even bothered slipping Holloway the black ooze. The reason they were there was to meet their makers, I can't fathom how infecting him would help them with that goal.

I think it was in one part to show David was hurt by Holloway always picking on him for being an Android. Or more so experiment and see if this ooze could make Weyland healthier and immortal. As that was the main part of the mission. Weyland wanted to meet the Engineers and get them to make him immortal.

@believer258 said:

It's implying that the first one was born from the Space Jockey that died there,

Its actually more complicated than that...Halloway is infected with the black ooze. Which I guess is a biological substance that binds to genetic material and make an aggressive predator. So using the genetic material to adapt to the local life. Halloway was infected with it, he then impregnated Shaw with a fetus made up of his DNA which is 100% match for Space Jockey/Engineer DNA...while also made up of the Black ooze that changed genetics. Which later it turns out to be a Giant killer squid? which it then impregnates a Space Jockey and the theory of Aliens for years. Is they take on a certain amount of Genetic material and traits from their host. Why the Alien in Alien 3 is more Dog like and not as smart as previous Aliens.

So the final Proto Alien burst from the Space Jockey almost fully formed. So its made up of Bio goo....that has human DNA fused with human DNA and then fused with Space Jockey DNA which is...human DNA......

My question was more along the lines of "how the fuck did that alien get on LV426 when the movie doesn't even take place there?"

You don't make a lick of sense.

#26 Posted by csl316 (8680 posts) -

@CakeBomb said:

As an Alien nut, this movie was good but way too confusing. It was like an omelet of elements bubbling around, none of them explained or developed to make any sense.

Why did the black goo do to them? Why vases and not eggs? Why an octopus-like facehugger that grew to room size? Why was the Engineer immediately hostile? Where did the alien that escaped when they rolled over the body go? So many things left unfinished. It's a movie I'd like to see with exclusive Ridley audio commentary, to understand something.

On a side note, watched Alien today and that movie still holds up, even with the retro-futuristic aesthetic.

Yep, I popped it in after seeing Prometheus. Still awesome!

Online
#27 Posted by PSNgamesun (408 posts) -

man I didn't get this movie the plot was everywhere n it never really concluded itself, it almost felt unfinished. Also David was an asshole 4 no reason it was funny tho cause it felt like looney toones to me. I just felt it was slow n kinda boring although i liked the alien attack scenes but very few of those; and it felt like they were not a group n not scared. I also CRINGED when the blonde chick in the beginning did the push ups( Ridley trying to hard to make a strong female character). In the end I should have known that this movie was going to be lame n boring since its Ridley Scott he only has 3 good movies in my book (Blade Runner, Legend, n Gladiator) and the rest are boring films; the trailers kinda sold it like a James Cameron film but we got what we got.

#28 Edited by snowninja845 (43 posts) -
@runcrash said:

What I don't get is why David even bothered slipping Holloway the black ooze. The reason they were there was to meet their makers, I can't fathom how infecting him would help them with that goal.

It was kind of apparent that David was being controlled by Weyland, since he was searching for a way to cheat death (become immortal basically). 
 
Although i have no idea why Weyland would think that stuff would make a advancement in his search.
#29 Posted by MikkaQ (10290 posts) -

@believer258 said:

@Akyho said:

@runcrash said:

What I don't get is why David even bothered slipping Holloway the black ooze. The reason they were there was to meet their makers, I can't fathom how infecting him would help them with that goal.

I think it was in one part to show David was hurt by Holloway always picking on him for being an Android. Or more so experiment and see if this ooze could make Weyland healthier and immortal. As that was the main part of the mission. Weyland wanted to meet the Engineers and get them to make him immortal.

@believer258 said:

It's implying that the first one was born from the Space Jockey that died there,

Its actually more complicated than that...Halloway is infected with the black ooze. Which I guess is a biological substance that binds to genetic material and make an aggressive predator. So using the genetic material to adapt to the local life. Halloway was infected with it, he then impregnated Shaw with a fetus made up of his DNA which is 100% match for Space Jockey/Engineer DNA...while also made up of the Black ooze that changed genetics. Which later it turns out to be a Giant killer squid? which it then impregnates a Space Jockey and the theory of Aliens for years. Is they take on a certain amount of Genetic material and traits from their host. Why the Alien in Alien 3 is more Dog like and not as smart as previous Aliens.

So the final Proto Alien burst from the Space Jockey almost fully formed. So its made up of Bio goo....that has human DNA fused with human DNA and then fused with Space Jockey DNA which is...human DNA......

My question was more along the lines of "how the fuck did that alien get on LV426 when the movie doesn't even take place there?"

You don't make a lick of sense.

Well Shaw and David leave with one carrier ship, anything could have happened to them and the ship.

And that might not have been the only installation.

#30 Edited by myketuna (1701 posts) -

I always thought David fucked with Holloway because he was curious to see what would happen AND Holloway (and the many of the other people, for that matter) were kind of an asshole to him. Which is funny since wouldn't books, movies, games about being "mean" or at least not respecting androids/synthetic life serve as a warning for this kind of behavior? I also think either David was fucking around with the Engineer by saying something that would cause alarm/hostility or the Engineer already made up its mind about humans before going into stasis during the "awakening" scene.

As far as the ending, I have a theory that the HUGE facehugger/squid thing is the second step in the Alien/Xenomorph evolution with the microscopic, gooey shit being the first. And whatever it lays eggs in makes the "Queen" version (the final baby Alien thing looks like a baby Queen to me with its blue-ish hue) which starts laying eggs that make the facehuggers/xenomorphs we're familiar with. Each step kind of borrows from its host (almost like the Asari in ME) which would allow for variations like the Xenomorph that comes from a dog in Alien 3. It served the same basic purpose of infecting/gathering other hosts, but moved and acted a bit differently than the previous Xenomorphs (which came from humans).

All that said, I'm really curious to see what the Engineer homeworld is like and/or how the Alien eggs even get to LV-426. Also, where do the Predators fit into all of this? Predators have been around forever since you see a dinosaur skull in 2 (I think) which means they must have run into Engineers eventually if they're on the same turf. Which leads me down the dark fanfic path of wondering what a fight between an Engineer and a (comparably smaller) Predator would be like. Both are fucking crazy powerful.

Regardless of all this thoery and specualation shit though, I thought the movie was cool for what it was. I went into it without expecting/requiring any direct ties to Alien and I came out pretty happy with it. Might go see it again just for kicks.

#31 Edited by Meowshi (2911 posts) -

@Buckwatters said:

So I just finished watching Prometheus (midnight showing on the west coast), and one thing is bothering me, did Ridley Scott retcon "Alien?" The ending of Prometheus does not have the space jockey in the chair that the audience sees it sitting on in the beginning of Alien, but rather in another ship altogether. I'm wondering what you guys think of this? Am I over-analyzing the ending or did Scott mess up the ending to Prometheus?

...or, was that scene inserted by the studio? Sorry, that thought just popped into my head.

What are you talking about?

The "space jockey" is just a suit, as the movie clearly showed. It could be anyone in that suit. It could have been a human. Maybe Swan.

#32 Edited by Akyho (1652 posts) -

@snowninja845 said:

@runcrash said:

What I don't get is why David even bothered slipping Holloway the black ooze. The reason they were there was to meet their makers, I can't fathom how infecting him would help them with that goal.

It was kind of apparent that David was being controlled by Weyland, since he was searching for a way to cheat death (become immortal basically). Although i have no idea why Weyland would think that stuff would make a advancement in his search.

Weyland was probably so eager he said to David "If you think it may help....Do it!" Weyland didnt have much time. So waiting wasnt an option. If he could get it now then he will take it. Didnt matter the price, he took shortcuts to speed up everything. They realy should have been slow to explore the ship. Except David was under orders to do things now, not later.

@believer258 said:

@Akyho said:

@believer258 said:

It's implying that the first one was born from the Space Jockey that died there,

Its actually more complicated than that...Halloway is infected with the black ooze. Which I guess is a biological substance that binds to genetic material and make an aggressive predator. So using the genetic material to adapt to the local life. Halloway was infected with it, he then impregnated Shaw with a fetus made up of his DNA which is 100% match for Space Jockey/Engineer DNA...while also made up of the Black ooze that changed genetics. Which later it turns out to be a Giant killer squid? which it then impregnates a Space Jockey and the theory of Aliens for years. Is they take on a certain amount of Genetic material and traits from their host. Why the Alien in Alien 3 is more Dog like and not as smart as previous Aliens.

So the final Proto Alien burst from the Space Jockey almost fully formed. So its made up of Bio goo....that has human DNA fused with human DNA and then fused with Space Jockey DNA which is...human DNA......

My question was more along the lines of "how the fuck did that alien get on LV426 when the movie doesn't even take place there?"

You don't make a lick of sense.

Like I said....its even more complicated than simply "How the first alien we know, burst out of the Pilot in Alien." With the genesis of the alien being complicated, before it is explained in other upcoming films. They are trying to make the other two films to explain that. We dont know right now.

And makes a very good point. The pilot in Alien could is just a suit. For all we know Shaw goes to the LV-426 and has the Alien burst out of her while in the pilot seat. We simply dont know.

@CakeBomb said:

As an Alien nut, this movie was good but way too confusing. It was like an omelet of elements bubbling around, none of them explained or developed to make any sense.

Why did the black goo do to them? Why vases and not eggs? Why an octopus-like facehugger that grew to room size? Why was the Engineer immediately hostile? Where did the alien that escaped when they rolled over the body go? So many things left unfinished. It's a movie I'd like to see with exclusive Ridley audio commentary, to understand something.

On a side note, watched Alien today and that movie still holds up, even with the retro-futuristic aesthetic.

The black goo is a primordial ooze of sorts. A biological agent that when it comes into contact with other life, alters the DNA and makes a viscous predator, the perfect killer. Biological weapons that will wipe out the planet by eating and killing everything. No food no life. The vases were just containers for the vials of ooze. Eggs were never meant to be on the ship, more so the creatuer that lays them hasn't been created.

Octopus like facehugger and the alien snake. Just random creations based on the initial DNA?

Engineer being hostile, well if they knew what earth was and the human life. They were going to wipe out that life, only to find humans have developed enough and is on his ship. They might be ready to kill him? To him they were at war already?

I as well watched Alien again and still a very good film. All the effects and style hold up...except one thing...the green print on black with Mothers screen. That is he only thing that dates from 79.

#33 Posted by believer258 (11914 posts) -

Yes, I get that the thing on LV426 happened at a different point in time. But think about it this way - the first xenomorph, or the precursor to the xenomorphs as we know them, came out of the Engineer at the end, correct? Well, that's on LV223. As in, not on LV426. How did it get to LV426 to lay all of the eggs in a different Engineer? Someone else posited that it could have been Shaw in that suit in the beginning of Alien - but those suits are both far too big for her and were seemingly part of the Engineers, so I don't see that as a viable possibility.

Why do they need two more films to explain something that this film could have easily wrapped up with? To me, the whole thing just doesn't mesh very well. The xenomorph's beginnings and the Space Jockey are both now explained, but that explanation has left a multitude of questions and plot holes.

And don't fucking say "it's more complicated than that" without giving an explanation as to how as well as answers.

#34 Edited by Akyho (1652 posts) -

@believer258 said:

And don't fucking say "it's more complicated than that" without giving an explanation as to how as well as answers.

Lets start from the beginning. I forgot to tell you I am actually Riddley Scott and I will tell you everything you need to know. But first...Its a little more complicated than that............

Calm down. The simplest way to put it. THERE ARE NO ANSWERS RIGHT NOW. We can only have theories. There is just enough to base things on. I have theorized to a point that there is simply nothing else that can be said that isnt complete bullshit. Alot of what I have said might turn out to be complete complete bullshit. However for now its just as good as anyone else thoughts.

The only way to get these answer's right now it A: Talk to Riddley Scott and hope he is in a good mood. B: Wait and see if they other films are made.

#35 Posted by Jeust (10654 posts) -
@believer258: i think Ridley Scott desires to expand on the complicated relationship of the engineers and men, the propagation of the original alien and possibly make a point about life.
#36 Posted by JDW519 (148 posts) -

I liked the movie a lot and thought that while it was a bit confusing it seemed like there was enough to piece together things. That thing at the end of the movie was clearly not a Xenomorph but maybe an offshoot? Clearly the Engineers liked playing god and the black slime clearly had some evolutionary properties, it only makes sense that they'd make other things besides people. The only reason these creatures looked different is because human DNA affected it, I'd assume that these same situations played out with the Engineers would lead to a bigger type of creature closer to the classic look.

#37 Posted by MikkaQ (10290 posts) -

@believer258 said:

Yes, I get that the thing on LV426 happened at a different point in time. But think about it this way - the first xenomorph, or the precursor to the xenomorphs as we know them, came out of the Engineer at the end, correct? Well, that's on LV223. As in, not on LV426. How did it get to LV426 to lay all of the eggs in a different Engineer? Someone else posited that it could have been Shaw in that suit in the beginning of Alien - but those suits are both far too big for her and were seemingly part of the Engineers, so I don't see that as a viable possibility.

Why do they need two more films to explain something that this film could have easily wrapped up with? To me, the whole thing just doesn't mesh very well. The xenomorph's beginnings and the Space Jockey are both now explained, but that explanation has left a multitude of questions and plot holes.

And don't fucking say "it's more complicated than that" without giving an explanation as to how as well as answers.

I don't think it's very complicated at all, she was heading to their homeworld, so she could have encountered any number of them who could have either taken the ship, or had their own or whatever and crashed on LV426.

Anyway I think the Xenomorph at the end doesn't play a role in anything, other than showing the audience how that could have happened. Obviously if there are any more Engineers and that black goo in the universe it could happen again as a separate incident elsewhere.

They keep saying the movie is it's own thing separate from Alien, so I think all that's been shown is how something like the derelict on 426 could get there and spawn the xenomorphs. But not specifically why.

Also the "two other films" are in no way confirmed, that was from when the movie was a direct Alien prequel instead of just another story set in the same universe. Although it'll probably happen if this is successful enough.

#38 Posted by The_Ruiner (1060 posts) -

Completely ignoring the "prequel" status of this movie, I felt like it didn't work for a number of reasons. Mostly centering around the general incompetence of the characters. And the seemingly random nature of many of the elements. AT points things got kind of silly and the immersion was completely broken.

*Spoilers...and anger..ahead...*

You're an advanced alien culture that has mastered space travel and advanced bioengineering. So how do solve your problems? HULK THE FUCK OUT FOR NO REASON!!!

Why did people keep taking their helmets off?

Why didn't anyone hear Shaw screaming and aborting herself for 15 mins?

Why did the Irishman turn into a creepy space zombie, was that part of the Engineers plan?

If Weyland wanted this mission to go smoothly why didn't he just send a crew of 5 Davids?

Why would you try and pet an evil space cobra? You wouldn't try and pet an earth cobra...especially after those assholes made such a big deal about being too scared to deal with the alien shit.

Why, when you need a character to get conveniently lost, did you choose the one character who's a geologist and who was just established in the previous scene as the guy who's the keeper of the map technology?!?!?!

Why did the Halloway go from hopeful young genius to frat boy dueche for no reason at all? It felt incredibly forced.

This movie was so dumb for so many reason...huge gaps in logic, unlikable characters doing the most idiotic things they could do, purely for the purpose of getting killed. This entire movie feels like it was conceived as a series of index cards with "cool sequences" on them and they just tried to make it all fit later. Beautiful art and design...but really really poorly put together from a script and basic common sense perspective.

#39 Posted by believer258 (11914 posts) -

@Akyho said:

THERE ARE NO ANSWERS RIGHT NOW. We can only have theories.

So I spent two hours watching a movie that asks many questions with few vague answers?

That means that Ridley Scott has failed as a moviemaker. Even if it did leave plot points open for a sequel hook, it should have answered some of its own questions.

#40 Edited by Akyho (1652 posts) -

@The_Ruiner said:

Completely ignoring the "prequel" status of this movie, I felt like it didn't work for a number of reasons. Mostly centering around the general incompetence of the characters. And the seemingly random nature of many of the elements. AT points things got kind of silly and the immersion was completely broken.

*Spoilers...and anger..ahead...*

You're an advanced alien culture that has mastered space travel and advanced bioengineering. So how do solve your problems? HULK THE FUCK OUT FOR NO REASON!!!

Why did people keep taking their helmets off?

Why didn't anyone hear Shaw screaming and aborting herself for 15 mins?

Why did the Irishman turn into a creepy space zombie, was that part of the Engineers plan?

If Weyland wanted this mission to go smoothly why didn't he just send a crew of 5 Davids?

Why would you try and pet an evil space cobra? You wouldn't try and pet an earth cobra...especially after those assholes made such a big deal about being too scared to deal with the alien shit.

Why, when you need a character to get conveniently lost, did you choose the one character who's a geologist and who was just established in the previous scene as the guy who's the keeper of the map technology?!?!?!

Why did the Halloway go from hopeful young genius to frat boy dueche for no reason at all? It felt incredibly forced.

This movie was so dumb for so many reason...huge gaps in logic, unlikable characters doing the most idiotic things they could do, purely for the purpose of getting killed. This entire movie feels like it was conceived as a series of index cards with "cool sequences" on them and they just tried to make it all fit later. Beautiful art and design...but really really poorly put together from a script and basic common sense perspective.

I acknowledge most if not all of those things, and for the most part cant argue. Except I still realy enjoyed the film. It isnt perfect, and there are reasons why people wont like it.

However if hold too much of the comments to the film, then most films are ruined by the same stupidity.

The Halloway thing. I think he became such a dick. Since he was so disappointed about not getting the actually meet the Aliens. However it seems a little over dramatic like a child throwing a temper-tantrum. Than a someone that had their expectation's crushed.

@believer258 said:

@Akyho said:

THERE ARE NO ANSWERS RIGHT NOW. We can only have theories.

So I spent two hours watching a movie that asks many questions with few vague answers?

That means that Ridley Scott has failed as a moviemaker. Even if it did leave plot points open for a sequel hook, it should have answered some of its own questions.

In some cases people think that such a feat is a good thing. However I cannot say if it was or wasn't in this case. As I am kinda of not sure how I truly feel about the film. I acknowledge flaws in the film. Yet I can only look back and think how much I enjoyed it and so many good points.

Just me I suppose.

One big thing I think so great about it. Its an ACTUAL Sci fi film. Not a mixed up film that has light Sci fi and just turns into a simple story that could be set in a none Sci fi setting..

#41 Posted by Apparatus_Unearth (3154 posts) -

Seeing the space jockey as just a suit was cool.

#42 Posted by myketuna (1701 posts) -

@Apparatus_Unearth said:

Seeing the space jockey as just a suit was cool.

I really like the design of the Engineers. They scare me more than they should just because I imagine them to be those giant creepy statues you see in churches and museums that suddenly came to life and started wrecking shit.

#43 Posted by MikkaQ (10290 posts) -

@The_Ruiner said:

Completely ignoring the "prequel" status of this movie, I felt like it didn't work for a number of reasons. Mostly centering around the general incompetence of the characters. And the seemingly random nature of many of the elements. AT points things got kind of silly and the immersion was completely broken.

*Spoilers...and anger..ahead...*

You're an advanced alien culture that has mastered space travel and advanced bioengineering. So how do solve your problems? HULK THE FUCK OUT FOR NO REASON!!!

Why did people keep taking their helmets off?

Why didn't anyone hear Shaw screaming and aborting herself for 15 mins?

Why did the Irishman turn into a creepy space zombie, was that part of the Engineers plan?

If Weyland wanted this mission to go smoothly why didn't he just send a crew of 5 Davids?

Why would you try and pet an evil space cobra? You wouldn't try and pet an earth cobra...especially after those assholes made such a big deal about being too scared to deal with the alien shit.

Why, when you need a character to get conveniently lost, did you choose the one character who's a geologist and who was just established in the previous scene as the guy who's the keeper of the map technology?!?!?!

Why did the Halloway go from hopeful young genius to frat boy dueche for no reason at all? It felt incredibly forced.

This movie was so dumb for so many reason...huge gaps in logic, unlikable characters doing the most idiotic things they could do, purely for the purpose of getting killed. This entire movie feels like it was conceived as a series of index cards with "cool sequences" on them and they just tried to make it all fit later. Beautiful art and design...but really really poorly put together from a script and basic common sense perspective.

I agree with a lot of this stuff, the characters in the movie were too fucking stupid to participate in that kind of expedition. If they as educated people had the knowledge that colonists from Europe brought horrible disease to the indigenous population of North America, how could they possibly be dumb enough take their helmets off on another fucking planet?

My problem with this movie is that it was half intelligent hard sci-fi movie, and half kinda cheesy horror movie. It kept flip-flopping between them poorly. The first two deaths were almost comically stupid (and caused laughter in the theater), and so was the zombie that came from it.

Though some of your gripes are explainable. The guy turned into a zombie cause he fell into the goop with his helmet melted off. That probably wasn't the engineers' plan because them opening the sealed door "changed the atmosphere" according to Shaw, which caused the jars to start leaking.

#44 Posted by FilipHolm (667 posts) -

Someone probably already said this but. That "space-Jockey" was probably not the one from the Alien film. As you could tell somewhere midway through the movie, there were obviously a whole lot of other ships on that planet. Plus, from what I understand it's completely diferent planet in Alien. I will agree that the movie was very confusing most of the time and some of the plot points didn't make any sense or were understandably connected to the Alien-franchise...

For example, why did that one dude come back all pissed of and looking very warewolf-like? It felt like I was watching an episode of Stargate all of a sudden... and it didn't amek any sense to the story or affected the plot in any meaningful way.. I mean wtf?

#45 Edited by boj4ngles (287 posts) -

@The_Ruiner said:

Completely ignoring the "prequel" status of this movie, I felt like it didn't work for a number of reasons. Mostly centering around the general incompetence of the characters. And the seemingly random nature of many of the elements. AT points things got kind of silly and the immersion was completely broken.

*Spoilers...and anger..ahead...*

You're an advanced alien culture that has mastered space travel and advanced bioengineering. So how do solve your problems? HULK THE FUCK OUT FOR NO REASON!!!

Maybe he had a reason that you don't understand? Maybe he was not a warrior but was a scientist? Maybe the point is that you are not supposed to understand his motivations? Maybe the point is that a created entity can never understand the motivations of its creator no matter how hard it tries? Does a fetus know why its mother aborts it? I will elaborate on this further down.

Why did people keep taking their helmets off?

I think it's important to remember that when Holloway (the first crew member to remove his helmet) embarks on the mission, he is expecting to make first contact. To him, it is inconceivable that the engineers will be anything but an intelligent, advanced race with an interstellar civilization and probable fore-knowledge of Prometheus' arrival. When they enter the pyramid, and realize that in-spite of the laws of nature, this place is hospitable to humans, this confirms every secret wish he nurtured during the voyage. For him, the act of taking off his helmet is similar to the act of removing a mask. It is not just about breathing air, it is about saying here I am. Your son has returned. When he realizes that there is air to be breathed, his instinct is that he is meant to breath it. His creator intends it. Our creators would not call us across the galaxy to make us sick via air-born pathogen. That is unthinkable. Of course this is in contrast to other members of the crew who are skeptics, but Holloway is a believer, and when he shows that he can breathe, he converts them.

As an audience, we know that this is a horror movie, and that bad stuff is going to happen when characters' fatal flaws are revealed, but that is just part of going to the movies.

Why didn't anyone hear Shaw screaming and aborting herself for 15 mins?

Well if you remember, everyone else was busy doing other things while Shaw was doing the abortion. I think the ship is a lot bigger than you are realizing. Also keep in mind that the surgical pod is in Venter's personal quarters, that is an area of the ship which is deliberately isolated from the rest, and probably sound proofed. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if she had all the systems for her quarters segregated from the ship so that no one would know what goes on in there.

Why did the Irishman turn into a creepy space zombie, was that part of the Engineers plan?

That I cannot explain. Doesn't mean there is not an explanation for it though. The movie came out only a couple days ago, people are still in the process of interpreting it.

If Weyland wanted this mission to go smoothly why didn't he just send a crew of 5 Davids?

This is a great question, the best question you asked. It goes to the very heart of the film. If you can fully answer this question, then you can probably unlock the film's entire meaning. I will try to answer but I admit it may not work.

The short answer is that David is an imperfect being, and he is not human. Weyland knows that as advanced as David is, he cannot take that extra leap which is needed to make first contact with humanity's creators. If David attempted this, then the contact would be devoid of meaning and the mission pointless. Only humans can make contact. Weyland however, cannot make the journey alone with androids. He must be able to share the experience with someone, but androids cannot share in this experience. After all, they have already met their creator.

The film's central theme is the relationship of the created to its creator. It permeates everything. The relationship 1) between Venters and Weyland, 2) between David and Weyland, 3) between the facehugger/squid and Shaw, 4) and of course between the humans and the engineers. It is a great irony that the humans have traveled to distant stars in order to meet their creator and receive the wisdom that he will surely impart, yet they have no wisdom for their own creation, David. When David asks why he was made, he is ridiculed. It is a stupid question and he is stupid for worrying about it. It does not occur to the humans in the slightest that their own creator will have a similar answer for them.

Why would you try and pet an evil space cobra? You wouldn't try and pet an earth cobra...especially after those assholes made such a big deal about being too scared to deal with the alien shit.

I read somewhere that 80% of all snake bites are on the hand, despite that fact that when a human walks upright, his hand is generally out of reach of most snakes' striking distance. Curiosity killed the cat.

Why, when you need a character to get conveniently lost, did you choose the one character who's a geologist and who was just established in the previous scene as the guy who's the keeper of the map technology?!?!?!

Why not?

Why did the Halloway go from hopeful young genius to frat boy dueche for no reason at all? It felt incredibly forced.

Well keep in mind that he was drunk in that scene, and people are frequently not themselves when they are drunk. Also see my above comment. When he realizes that all his expectations about making first contact are dashed (the engineers are all dead), it puts him into a depression.

#46 Posted by yakov456 (1908 posts) -

I didn't realize it was a different planet, that explains some questions I had. When the black substance started leaking was it planned by the Engineers as a trap when the door is opened or an atmospheric change like they assumed? Im also thinking like others said that David told the Eng. that they were from Earth and realizing that he knew they had to be eliminated before they escaped. So many unanswered questions in relation to the first Alien movie, argh!

#47 Edited by Rohok (554 posts) -

@CakeBomb said:

As an Alien nut, this movie was good but way too confusing. It was like an omelet of elements bubbling around, none of them explained or developed to make any sense.

Why did the black goo do to them? Why vases and not eggs? Why an octopus-like facehugger that grew to room size? Why was the Engineer immediately hostile? Where did the alien that escaped when they rolled over the body go? So many things left unfinished. It's a movie I'd like to see with exclusive Ridley audio commentary, to understand something.

On a side note, watched Alien today and that movie still holds up, even with the retro-futuristic aesthetic.

All of these questions were answered.

#48 Edited by TentPole (1858 posts) -

@Rohok said:

@CakeBomb said:

As an Alien nut, this movie was good but way too confusing. It was like an omelet of elements bubbling around, none of them explained or developed to make any sense.

Why did the black goo do to them? Why vases and not eggs? Why an octopus-like facehugger that grew to room size? Why was the Engineer immediately hostile? Where did the alien that escaped when they rolled over the body go? So many things left unfinished. It's a movie I'd like to see with exclusive Ridley audio commentary, to understand something.

On a side note, watched Alien today and that movie still holds up, even with the retro-futuristic aesthetic.

All of these questions were answered.

Well that one wasn't, but that's the point.

#49 Posted by boj4ngles (287 posts) -

@TentPole said:

@Rohok said:

@CakeBomb said:

As an Alien nut, this movie was good but way too confusing. It was like an omelet of elements bubbling around, none of them explained or developed to make any sense.

Why did the black goo do to them? Why vases and not eggs? Why an octopus-like facehugger that grew to room size? Why was the Engineer immediately hostile? Where did the alien that escaped when they rolled over the body go? So many things left unfinished. It's a movie I'd like to see with exclusive Ridley audio commentary, to understand something.

On a side note, watched Alien today and that movie still holds up, even with the retro-futuristic aesthetic.

All of these questions were answered.

Well that one wasn't, but that's the point.

Exactly. It is the horrifying idea that we cannot understand the motivations of our creator any more than your computer can understand your own motivations. The search for our creator's wisdom will not end in enlightenment, it will end in terror. It will end in the horrifying realization that we are alienated from our creator and can never be reconciled. This terror is finally realized in the encounter between Weyland and the engineer. However it is heavily foreshadowed by David's conversations, and by Shaw, who chooses to abort her "child", disowning it as a wild, alien monstrosity that is beyond redemption and not worth imparting knowledge to.

My own personal beliefs go against this notion of the creator/created relationship, but in the context of a horror film, it is brilliant.

#50 Posted by myketuna (1701 posts) -

@boj4ngles said:

@TentPole said:

@Rohok said:

@CakeBomb said:

As an Alien nut, this movie was good but way too confusing. It was like an omelet of elements bubbling around, none of them explained or developed to make any sense.

Why did the black goo do to them? Why vases and not eggs? Why an octopus-like facehugger that grew to room size? Why was the Engineer immediately hostile? Where did the alien that escaped when they rolled over the body go? So many things left unfinished. It's a movie I'd like to see with exclusive Ridley audio commentary, to understand something.

On a side note, watched Alien today and that movie still holds up, even with the retro-futuristic aesthetic.

All of these questions were answered.

Well that one wasn't, but that's the point.

Exactly. It is the horrifying idea that we cannot understand the motivations of our creator any more than your computer can understand your own motivations. The search for our creator's wisdom will not end in enlightenment, it will end in terror. It will end in the horrifying realization that we are alienated from our creator and can never be reconciled. This terror is finally realized in the encounter between Weyland and the engineer. However it is heavily foreshadowed by David's conversations, and by Shaw, who chooses to abort her "child", disowning it as a wild, alien monstrosity that is beyond redemption and not worth imparting knowledge to.

My own personal beliefs go against this notion of the creator/created relationship, but in the context of a horror film, it is brilliant.

This kind of reminds me of Alien: Resurrection. You know, if we want to remember that one.