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#101 Edited by Hunter5024 (5973 posts) -

@oldirtybearon: Films can't have opinions about themselves, so it's impossible for them to be smug or pretentious. If you're going to criticize a movie for the way the director feels about it, the way the general public feels about it, or the way the advertising portrayed it, then you are not taking it seriously as a piece of art. If you thought the plot made no sense, then I totally understand why you dislike it though, but not everyone had that problem, and I just don't think the other things are fair criticisms.

#102 Posted by mrfluke (5350 posts) -

Lets all bitch about a movie we havent even seen a trailer for yet! BITCH BITCH BITCH!

#103 Posted by joshwent (2353 posts) -

@levio said:

Wow, I didn't realize people hated Zack so much. I thought most people loved 300 and Watchmen?

They did. Ever since Sucker Punch it's been like the Internet is lining up around the block to get their licks in.

No, they didn't. This is a ridiculously lazy excuse to discount criticism. Someone disagrees with me? You HATER! Just don't like it 'cause it's cool.

Yeesh.

I won't go into it in crazy detail (this being a thread about something else entirely), but I thought 300 was fun in the theater and gets much worse when you lose the spectacle watching at home. And for me Watchmen was a big miss. Lacking the detailed wit and heart of the comic, while making it way more violent in the wrong places to negative ends. Do you believe me, or have I changed my opinion to look cool on the internet?

If you love those movies, then great! Liking stuff is fun. But it doesn't make that stuff inherently good. Especially when opinions are clearly and legitimately mixed.

#104 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4893 posts) -

@joshwent said:

No, they didn't. This is a ridiculously lazy excuse to discount criticism. Someone disagrees with me? You HATER! Just don't like it 'cause it's cool.

For a lot people, around here and abroad, Zack Snyder was a decent director who made some good movies. Then Sucker Punch happened, the Internet (or the assholes in it) smelled blood, and everything you ever hear about him since has been mostly negative and sometimes slanderous shit. Nowhere did I say you didn't have a perfectly valid reason to dislike his films, but refusal to acknowledge how shitty the Internet has been about the guy since Sucker Punch is ignorant. It's cool, brah. I don't think you're a hater for having a valid opinion about his work.

@hunter5024 said:

@oldirtybearon: Films can't have opinions about themselves, so it's impossible for them to be smug or pretentious. If you're going to criticize a movie for the way the director feels about it, the way the general public feels about it, or the way the advertising portrayed it, then you are not taking it seriously as a piece of art. If you thought the plot made no sense, then I totally understand why you dislike it though, but not everyone had that problem, and I just don't think the other things are fair criticisms.

Films can absolutely be smug and pretentious. Films are not made in a vacuum. People make them, and through their work we can also come to understand the people who make them. Films, like any creative endeavour, is absolutely infused with the emotion (or passion, if you prefer) of its creator. If it doesn't, it's a fucking product.

And for the record, I was criticizing the film for being pretentious, bloated, and for its characters being little more than vehicles for exposition. You know, because saying "dreams within dreams within dreams" is stupid. When I talk about the film being pretentious, I'm referring to the writer inventing dialogue to help obfuscate its stupidity, or about the strained and hammy father/son relationship between the victim of the mind rapists and his dad. Or the "tortured past" of Leonardo DiCaprio. It's unnecessary bloat. And I swear that the only reason it exists is because Christopher Nolan is too scared to make a movie that's just a movie. It has to have weight, and purpose, it needs to say something about us as people because art, man. It can't just be a silly movie about a silly concept that people see to have silly fun. That's fucking pretentious.

It's a movie about dream thieves stealing people's ideas (or planting them, in this case). In the right hands, that could be a ridiculous fun and great movie. It could even be a film that explores dreams as a metaphor for our inner self, our most buried wants and desires, but we got Chris Nolan. We got possibly the most unimaginative guy directing blockbuster movies. Perhaps that's the biggest reason Inception stinks. It's a movie caught between being a blockbuster action film and a serious exploration of a persons' most private self, and in trying to please both masters it loses any sense of identity it could have had.

#105 Posted by Hunter5024 (5973 posts) -

@oldirtybearon: While I agree that it's basically impossible not to let those outside factors influence your opinion about a film, I still think it's a little unfair to call a movie bad because of them. However you made your point much better this time around, and it's a totally valid perspective, I just disagree.

#106 Posted by Dylabaloo (1549 posts) -

You guys realize that Christopher Nolan wrote The man of steel, snyder just directed it. And i enjoyed it, so this should be dope.

David S.Goyer wrote Man of Steel, Nolan was a producer.

#107 Edited by OurSin_360 (947 posts) -

@oursin_360 said:

You guys realize that Christopher Nolan wrote The man of steel, snyder just directed it. And i enjoyed it, so this should be dope.

David S.Goyer wrote Man of Steel, Nolan was a producer.

They co-wrote it together, check the credits

#108 Posted by senrat (329 posts) -

I liked the batman films more than man of steel. However, man of steel essentially turned into dragon ball z at the end which I found quite entertaining.

#109 Posted by Liquidus (942 posts) -

@dylabaloo said:

@oursin_360 said:

You guys realize that Christopher Nolan wrote The man of steel, snyder just directed it. And i enjoyed it, so this should be dope.

David S.Goyer wrote Man of Steel, Nolan was a producer.

They co-wrote it together, check the credits

Nolan has a "Story by" credit which could mean a number of things. The only credited screenwriter for the movie is Goyer. That could mean Nolan went up to Goyer and said "I don't know, darker, moodier, Zod, explosions? Cool?" and then Goyer made a script. Or it could mean Nolan spent a lot of time with Goyer pounding out the script. Who knows?

#110 Edited by DarkShaper (1349 posts) -

I tend to enjoy Snyder's films. I hated Sucker punch but other than that I can't really think of a movie he made that I strongly disliked. Also I thought Man of Steel was deeply flawed but far better than Dark Knight Rises.

#111 Posted by Seppli (10250 posts) -

Synder and Bay get too much shit from the supposed "intellectual" movie community... They both make popcorn movies like no others and they both have flair. Unlike that piece of shit Del Toro recently released... Super stoked about this new movie.

Say what? Pacific Rim is the shit!

#112 Posted by gokaired (570 posts) -

I'm not too excited, the quote from TDKR was very misleading. Considering how powerful Kal was in MoS i just don't know what the point of adding Batman is, Bruce Wayne on the other hand can work.

In order fort this to work Kryptonite and Luthor MUST be involved, Snyder's okay but his stories or adaptation to script are often weak though visually he excels, but he tends to get carried away at times with styles like slow-mo or shaky-cam.

I like MoS but i find it really flawed and stopped real short of being great, I'm in the middle with this announcement, i hope Batman looks similar to how he looks in the comics now.

#113 Edited by JTB123 (1044 posts) -

@clonedzero said:

Lets all bitch about a movie we havent even seen a trailer for yet! BITCH BITCH BITCH!

Pretty accurate for these forums.

#114 Posted by LeYcH (216 posts) -

I'm guessing I'm the only person on earth who actually likes Zack Snyder?
Besides, nothing's been shown yet so I don't know how people can bitch about it.

I liked MOS, wasn't perfect but certainly better than Dark Knight Rises.

#115 Posted by gokaired (570 posts) -

@leych said:

I liked MOS, wasn't perfect but certainly better than Dark Knight Rises.

QFT

#116 Edited by CaptainSandwich (75 posts) -

@gaminghooligan said:

Exited and then....

"ZAKK Snyder is directing."

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

This. So much this.

Snyder is a BAD director. He shouldn't be touching characters and franchises as beloved as Batman or Superman.

Full disclosure...I'll still see this.

Wait. Watchmen was bad?

#117 Posted by Apparatus_Unearth (3245 posts) -

Wow, since when did all the hate for Man of Steel happen?

#118 Posted by SSully (4328 posts) -

I think it can be pretty cool.

I am in the party that believes Watchmen, Dawn of the Dead, and 300 are all solid films. Man of Steel was beautifully shot, but it completely failed to establish superman or the characters in the movie in a logical way. Zach Snider is capable of making a good movie, but the movies needs to have a solid script and someone to make sure Zach doesn't fuck it up.

#119 Edited by EXTomar (4951 posts) -

@apparatus_unearth said:

Wow, since when did all the hate for Man of Steel happen?

Right after leaving the theater. :) And emphasized by Pacific Rim. We have Idris Elba telling us "We are canceling the apocalypse!" while Henry Cavill is "I r sads". I won't be surprised that PR is going to be the best "super hero movie" of summer 2013 while Man of Steel will leave many feeling it was a wasted opportunity.

#120 Posted by BestUsernameEver (4825 posts) -

@mariachimacabre said:

@herpderp said:

@mariachimacabre:

@mariachimacabre said:

@gaminghooligan said:

Exited and then....

"ZAKK Snyder is directing."

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

This. So much this.

Snyder is a BAD director. He should be touching characters and franchises as beloved as Batman or Superman.

Full disclosure...I'll still see this.

Correction: Snyder is good at making some dudes fight other dudes, but in terms of story, he gets a little ham-fisted. Be optimistic guys, it can't be THAT bad.

It definitely can. He made Sucker Punch.

#121 Posted by NotTheBees (23 posts) -

Thanks Mr. Snyder, but this gem will satisfy me!

#122 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (4496 posts) -

@gaminghooligan said:

@mariachimacabre said:

@herpderp said:

@mariachimacabre:

@mariachimacabre said:

@gaminghooligan said:

Exited and then....

"ZAKK Snyder is directing."

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

This. So much this.

Snyder is a BAD director. He should be touching characters and franchises as beloved as Batman or Superman.

Full disclosure...I'll still see this.

Correction: Snyder is good at making some dudes fight other dudes, but in terms of story, he gets a little ham-fisted. Be optimistic guys, it can't be THAT bad.

It definitely can. He made Sucker Punch.

Exactly, dude better bring some outside help otherwise fuck that movie.

#123 Posted by jakob187 (21763 posts) -

Man of Steel was a good movie the writing team for these movies are fine and Dark Knight Returns as a comic book is over-fucking-rated I wish people would get the fuck off its nuts so much like it's somehow the goddamn holy grail of comics also people need to give Snyder shit for that fucking owl movie and Sucker Punch but his work with Watchmen and Man of Steel were just fine.

My day hasn't been good so I just slurred that shit together as quick as possible without giving a fuck or any regards to punctuation.

#124 Posted by FLStyle (4923 posts) -

I hope that with Batman in it they can write a more traditional Superman, have Superman making decisions to which Batman reacts to, which leads to animosity that becomes a begrudging respect by the end.

As opposed to Man of Steel where that Superman's beliefs and thought-process wasn't really on display, he just went along with everything, reacting to things as they happen.