#1 Posted by Chemystery (223 posts) -

Is anyone here a fan of the table top game? I always wanted to play but it is WAY too expensive for me right now. How is the latest edition? I've checked around online and it has mixed reviews for some reason. Also, if you know a place to buy armies for cheap that would be cool too.

#2 Posted by MikeFerrari7 (204 posts) -

Nerd.

I'm just kidding. I personally have no interest in the game, but I've always been slightly interested in painting figures. It looks relaxing!

#3 Edited by TheSouthernDandy (3867 posts) -

I'd love to get into it too but it's too complex to get my friends into it and too expensive to keep up with. I got into the hobby side of it, I like assembling and painting models. There's actually a thread on here where for Bombers to show off their stuff. I'd link it but alas, the forum is a buggy mess. Search continues to error message.

#4 Posted by big_jon (5727 posts) -

I play 40k, the starter packs are your best bet for sure, mini rulebook, two small armies. Look up dark vengeance.

As for 6th ed, it's fine for a new players, the issues will only really be apparent to the vets and slightly more competitive players.

#5 Posted by Chemystery (223 posts) -

@big_jon: In your professional opinion is the game still active? Is there a large enough community that it would probable to find hobby shops still playing it?

#6 Edited by big_jon (5727 posts) -

That's entirely based on where you live. I'd check for a local games workshop, or hobby shop and go from there. In terms of popularity 40k and fantasy are the two most popular tabletop wargames by far, I doubt you'll have too much issue finding people to play with.

#7 Edited by bluefish (455 posts) -

Deep in my heart I love Warhammer, 40K and fantasy. I fell out of the hobby in high school and I've toyed with the idea of buying back into a starter set and re-jiggering my old armies to make them work now-a-days but I've been toying with that idea for years.

It probably wont happen. But what I would give for 'Warhammer 40K: Space Marine 2' !!!

OH OH OH, OR SOMETHING LIKE X-COM BUT IN THE 40K UNIVERSE MY GOD THAT WOULD MAKE ME SO HAPPY!!!!

#8 Posted by big_jon (5727 posts) -

oh and EBay is where I make bigger purchases, Discond wargames store sells stuff for 25% off what gw charges direct usually.

#9 Edited by Zelyre (1193 posts) -

Played from 4th and 5th editions. As someone who's done a lot of tabletop gaming, I think 40k is prohibitively expensive to get into nowadays. When I first started, I had friends who wanted me to get into the hobby to play with them, and they were friends I wanted to game with. That was the biggest reason to hop in. Randoms at a hobby shop are a mixed bag at best. So, knowing I had a crew to play with made the initial cost easy to swallow. That was 10 years ago. When the big 40k book was $30ish bucks. The codex books were less than $20. By the time 6th edition came around, Games Workshop priced itself out of my gaming group's range.

Now, if you want to play, the big rules book and a codex (rules for a specific army) alone will run you $100. Codex books that are approaching $40 also have... drum roll please. DLC-esque add on rules. Every army requires a HQ choice and 2 troop choices. That's the bare minimum. If you look at Games-Workshop's site, the space marines would cost you $100 for the minimum. $80 if you buy from a discount retailer like miniaturemarket or warstore.

If you want to dip your toes in? The Dark Vengeance set is pretty nice. It comes with a mini-rule book which is the full rule book, just sans the art work. Army wise, the chaos marine models are cool. But the army itself is real meh. The Dark Angels are all right, but the rules for them are even more meh, I think. Both were great when they came out, but the new codexii have eclipsed them.

And that's another point of contention for 40k. If you're looking at a game that has tight rules and can be competitive? 40k is a beer and pretzels game. If you're playing against someone who builds an army off the flavor of the month competition list and you're just looking for fun? You'll get stomped. If you're playing to make up stories? It's enjoyable. But for competition, think of it like Magic the Gathering. But so much more expensive. You have to constantly keep up and upgrade. Game updates will make your older army start to struggle to keep up.

This is the Forgeworld Avatar of Kaine. He cost close to $100 when I bought him in 4th edition. He's large and bad ass. And in 5th edition, became a worthless model because of line of sight rule changes that made the standard Avatar much better. Also, the scenic bases my models are on that elevate them a quarter inch up higher than a standard games workshop model on a plain black base? Yup. Disadvantage for me, as a quarter inch of model sticks up over some terrain.

Do you know where you're going to play? In the Chicago land area, we had the GW Battle Bunker. It used to be a great place to get pick up games, watch and learn how to play and paint, and use their awesome tables. With that gone, the only thing left are the one man stores which aren't really the best places for games. So, scope out a local games shop. Walk in, introduce yourself and your desire to enter miniature gaming. Some shops have armies you can use and they'll teach you the ropes.

If you're looking at the hobby aspect of the game, the model making, the painting, the customization, 40k is king.

If you don't mind models being prebuilt (some rather poorly) and possibly painted (quite poorly), look on ebay for a used army. Otherwise, new in box 40k stuff is ~20% off MSRP unless it's a fake.

#10 Posted by ninnanuam (281 posts) -

I play fantasy on occasion. I used to be super into everything Games Workshop related (to the point where I worked for them for a while) but they burned me too many times with price increases and terrible customer service.

I haven't played 40K in about three years.

Now I play with my old armies and the occasional game with friends and at tournaments once or twice a year, I have a tourney coming up at the end of the month.

I recommend the game but pick your stuff up second hand, check ebay and stuff.

#11 Posted by Zelyre (1193 posts) -

And one more thought.

If you're looking at playing 40k and are going to do it outside of Games Workshop run facilities, there are a few companies out there that create 40k simulacrum. It's called proxy'ing and depending on what you're using to replace the unit, some people are really cool with it. For example, personally, I don't care what Space Marine army you want to play with your green painted models. Dark Angels, Ultramarines, Whitescars, Chaos Legion, whatever. They're space marines. What I do care about is what's called WYSIWYG. A space marine with a plasma gun should be holding a plasma gun. I think most people who play for fun will have no issue with a model as long as they can tell what it's supposed to be.

If you're in the midwest, Adepticon is right around the corner. It's a good place to see how deep the rabbit hole of this hobby goes. You'll see some crazy miniatures there and for me, that alone was worth the price of admission. On top of that, the last time I went, Privateer Press was giving away Warmachine starter sets to everyone who signed up in advance.

#12 Edited by ArtelinaRose (1851 posts) -

oh boy stuff i know about

I work at a tabletop gaming/comic book store and lemme tell you, 40k is dead as fuckkkkk just about anywhere you go. Fifth edition had... quite a few... issues and GW constantly raising its prices(huh, people aren't buying land raiders at $50 so LETS RAISE IT TO $80) has caused most of the people that played 40k to move on. In the local area around here Warmachine is the big thing, though Infinity is picking up a lot of traction recently which is good because I really like that game and also the miniatures are gorgeouussssss

I've talked to a few of my friends online that are into tabletop stuff and they have also said that 40k hasn't been popular since about the middle of fifth edition. Sixth came out... last year, I want to say? and is actually pretty okay, but enough time away from the game has made most people realize that the rules kind of aren't very fun(most common complaint I hear is there's not much else to it other than just dumping your bucket of dice and hoping for the best) and the price of entry/continued play just isn't worth it. $50 for >a< codex, WITH SUPPLEMENTS? Get outta here.

#13 Posted by Scroll (598 posts) -

Games workshop have changed over the last few years and are offering a worse quality product at a higher price. There are many better alternatives out there that deserve your attention far more.

Its terribly unfortunate what the people up top have done to the hobby as the I find the fiction to be quite appealing.

#14 Posted by Murgatroyd (8 posts) -

I've been playing WHFB for close to 10 years at this point, and I can say with qualifiers that it's been a good time. If you're going to start from scratch now, however, do so either with a friend or an interest in the hobbying experience (painting, converting, etc.). The cost of entry can be prohibitive but can be mitigated by other companies' minis or alternative sources for GW minis (ebay and thewarstore for GW, I've looked at Mantic, Privateer Press and Scibor to name a few GW alternatives).

As for the games themselves, I think Zelyre covered 40k pretty well. Fantasy is pretty well balanced at the moment, though players of older editions have specific complaints regarding the levels of randomization. It's more focused on movement of units, where you can win and lose games essentially in that phase alone. There's been some power creep in the past but really any army can be competitive, especially when you're not going for a "win at all costs, smash the competition with broken builds based on poorly worded rules" mentality. As someone who plays almost exclusively objectively bad armies and loses or pulls out draws most of the time, it's still pretty great.

#15 Edited by Chemystery (223 posts) -

@scroll: Okay so it seems Warhammer is not doing so well. So what are other options? I've only ever heard of Warhammer so I don't know of any other tabletop games that are active or interesting.

#16 Edited by ninnanuam (281 posts) -

This is by no means an exhaustive list, just the things that are big in my local community.

Warmachine/Hordes has been hot for a few years. Its got cool minis. I've never played myself because every time it comes up in the gaming community I've heard it compared favourably to Magic in that it has a lot of combo synergy, and the people who like it in my scene are the most dull and the most competitive, (you know, the ones the kind that calculate to the 4th decimal place if this unit can output more attacks than a different one then use it exclusively even though it looks like shit and the fluff for it is terrible).

Another one popular in my area is the Star Wars dog fighting game. I have a small collection and I find it really fun, although I think I preferred Crimson Skies from back in the day.

Malifaux a skirmish level game using a card mechanic. Kind of a fantasy western themed game. I dig a lot of the models for this and it blew up in my local community a while ago but it looks like it hasn't had any staying power. Don't know why. 2 years later there are no tourneys.

Confrontation, another fantasy style mini game models were/are great, when I was really interest in wargaming the rules were only available in French, that has changed now but I have never played it I've got a fair few models though, they did some nice stuff.

Flames of War: WW2 game which by all accounts is pretty good

Infinity, big but not my thing..... Models are sculpted well but the design is not for me.

I know there are many many more, like a cool alternate WW2 game I was with walker tanks and shit, models look crazy awesome but I have no idea what the name of it is and I'm not getting into new games ATM.

#17 Posted by hinderk (685 posts) -

@chemystery: Have you checked out warmachine/hordes? I've just started playing about a month ago and I'm really liking it so far.

#18 Posted by Chemystery (223 posts) -

@hinderk: Can't say that I have. Want to tell me a little about it?

#19 Edited by Zelyre (1193 posts) -

@chemystery: Warmahordes has a very active community in the Chicagoland area. With the Games Workshop battle bunker gone, there's no place that I know of that has an active 40k community that I know of. Warmachine/Hordes though, has multiple game shops with active players.

Really, I think the big thing you need to do, is either get some friends to buy in with you. If not that, then go to a local game shop, see what the local gaming scene looks like, and jump on what everyone else is playing.

And if you do play Warmachines/Hordes, I'm going to get this clear and out in the open. Some people do not have an off switch. Even if they know you're new, there are players of that game who will be more than happy to wipe you out with a caster kill as soon as possible. Don't let that discourage you. It's a fun game, and if the 2 player battlebox is a -great- deal. It can be had for $75 from online stores like miniature market, and has about 20 points of figures for each side. Those are full armies, and if you want to expand them out, jumping from 20 points to 35 points is not that much. There's also a pretty nice iPad/Android app for making army lists.

If you want to see what a game of Warmachine looks like, I like this person's youtube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/user/WarGamerGirl

She plays on pretty nice tables, the figures are 90% painted to a nice standard, and she puts a pretty good narrative behind the games.

If you're looking for general tabletop gaming...

https://www.youtube.com/user/miniwargaming/videos

It's where I learned how to play Warmachine. They have tutorial videos for other games, too.

#20 Posted by CheapPoison (731 posts) -

I too would suggest looking into warmachine/hordes before getting into Warhammer.

Being into a gameworkshop product might lead to headaches down the line. (Not that the others aren't subjected to some of that.) Also I think that depends on what you want to get into. Fantasy i feel is still kinda unique, 40k is not so appealing.

I saw a cool game called infinity that seemed like a cool future based wargame and it didn't seem to require too much miniatures. I am not sure how much playerbase there will be for it though. That is a good think about warhammer, you'll probably find players and the biggest one you can probably get an army second hand for cheap from someone who is sick of it/wants out/it is getting to oexpensive/has been burned by GW once too many.

#21 Posted by Scroll (598 posts) -

@chemystery: Privateer press is certainly one option, Warmachine and Hordes covers the whole steampunk fantasy theme with some pretty sturdy rules. They have a great variety of factions that play very differently from each other and they consistently release new miniatures for each faction through out the year. Prices aren't too bad either, especially considering the starter boxes.

#22 Posted by Chemystery (223 posts) -

@scroll: @zelyre: Warmahordes sounds promising. I guess I was just thinking 40K because I've heard the universe is really interesting but ultimately I want good gameplay. If it helps any I'm in PA and not so much near a large city.

#23 Posted by Zelyre (1193 posts) -

@scroll: @zelyre: Warmahordes sounds promising. I guess I was just thinking 40K because I've heard the universe is really interesting but ultimately I want good gameplay. If it helps any I'm in PA and not so much near a large city.

40k has more lore behind it than the Iron Kingdoms (Warmachine), there's just more stuff in the 40k universe. The models from Games Workshop are better than Privateer Press. Some people can argue that they like one aesthetic over the other, and that's fine. However, the Games Workshop stuff is cleaner. The plastic is better. The multi-part plastic kits allow for customization out of the box that you don't get with the Privateer Press stuff.

However, as a game, and as a community, I think Warmachine/Hordes is head and shoulders above anything Games Workshop does.

If you're thinking of jumping in, I suggest buying this:

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/pip25001.html

It's the 2 player Warmachine box set. They're both solid armies in the box. All the rules you'll ever need are in that box. When you want to expand or start a new army, all the rules are on the cards. The only thing the faction books contain are fluff and themed lists.

#24 Posted by Scroll (598 posts) -

@zelyre: I'd argue that Privateer presses miniatures are highly inconsistent, they still have a lot of older sculpts that have gotten worse over the years and admittedly some of the latest Trollblood stuff isn't all that great.. So yeah I'd agree mostly but its fair to say they are improving slowly but surely. The latest metal sculpts are fairly safe to get but the plastics are all over the place, at the very least you'll have difficulty with some poorly placed mold lines and lack of pose-ability at the the worst you'll get miscast, poorly sculpted miniatures covered with mold lines. Privateer press are listening to the feedback though so we'll see what they do about it for future releases.

Overall the rules make it worth it, there are a lot of combos between units that can be fun to pull off and the community can be pretty great.

#25 Posted by CheapPoison (731 posts) -
@zelyre said:

40k has more lore behind it than the Iron Kingdoms (Warmachine), there's just more stuff in the 40k universe. The models from Games Workshop are better than Privateer Press. Some people can argue that they like one aesthetic over the other, and that's fine. However, the Games Workshop stuff is cleaner. The plastic is better. The multi-part plastic kits allow for customization out of the box that you don't get with the Privateer Press stuff.

However, as a game, and as a community, I think Warmachine/Hordes is head and shoulders above anything Games Workshop does


I do think I would agree with this. Although models can be subjective, but at the other hand for me painting units thta are too big of all the same guy really takes the fun out of painting.

And what i would like to say on the lore. You can say 40k has more lore then anything else. Beyond that i am not sure if i would call it anything too special. IT does some nice things but I am not sure if they have a narrative that moves forwards and most of the stories have kind of the same elements. (Haven't read the 40k books though.)

Game wise I would say Warmachine certainly is stronger, but then again i personally thing that 40k is particularly weak.

#26 Edited by Berserk007 (206 posts) -

Playing War-hammer is a lot like buying a boat. You are going to spend tons of time and money getting it to where you want it, but you'll hardly ever use it,and you will still feel the need to maintain it and upgrade. I wasn't down for all that, so I sank that bitch like a boulder after a year

.