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#1 Edited by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

So in case you've been living under a rock for the last few days a series of terrorist attacks have occurred in Russia.

Three of them in the last 4 days to be exact (link to NBC news). The attacks in Volgograd have caused 33 deaths so far (link).

I'm really angry right now, much more so than I've been in a long time. My thoughts and prayers for all those effected.

It's time for Putin to bring the hammer down, again. Just my personal opinion. Anyway just thought I'd share, seeing as how I didn't see a thread about this.

Update:

So the authorities have a primary suspect now - Doku Umarov, the self proclaimed "Emir of Caucasus" (link). It's not certain that he and his group are behind the attack, but again, he is the primary suspect as of now.

Some interesting tidbits taken from a video he made during the summer

"Today in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Palestine, our brothers are fighting," he said at the time. "Everyone who attacked Muslims wherever they are are our enemies, common enemies. Our enemy is not Russia only, but everyone who wages war against Islam and Muslims."

and

His message to Russians at the time: "I promise you that war will come to your streets and you will feel it in your lives, feel it on your own skin."

Fortunately, once terrorist leaders show their faces their life expectancy drops sharply.

#2 Posted by awesomeusername (4154 posts) -

Holy mouse, that's fucking scary. People are monsters.

#3 Edited by PandaBear (1303 posts) -

@thedudeofgaming said:

So in case you've been living under a rock for the last few days a series of terrorist attacks have occurred in Russia.

Three of them in the last 4 days to be exact (link to NBC news). The two attacks in Volgograd have caused 33 deaths so far (link).

I'm really angry right now, much more so than I've been in a long time. My thoughts and prayers for all those effected.

It's time for Putin to bring the hammer down, again. Just my personal opinion. Anyway just thought I'd share, seeing as how I didn't see a thread about this.

You know the woman who did this was twice widowed when both husbands died fighting Russia. Let me be clear, there's NO justification for this, but just saying it's time for "Putin to bring the hammer down" is ridiculous. Russia has been fighting wars on so many fronts for years and they aren't any safer. Does America feel any safer with Saddam or Bin Laden dead? I doubt it.

#4 Posted by Aegon (5403 posts) -

Has a reason for these attacks been released? It can't just be random. Who's doing this?

#5 Posted by Poonz (130 posts) -

Wow that's crazy been so busy with work haven't heard anything about this.

#6 Edited by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@aegon said:

Has a reason for these attacks been released? It can't just be random. Who's doing this?

No, not yet currently. Reports from the attack on Volgograd say that a woman blew herself up. But later it's been said that there's a possibility it was a man.

Due to the close time proximity of the attacks it's without a doubt related to some terrorist agenda. Best guess, Chechnya or Dagestan. Chechnya has "won" independence, with a very heavy price. Dagestan in the North Caucasus region is currently seeking independence.

Both areas are hotspots for islamic radicals... muslims terrorists.

#7 Edited by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

@thedudeofgaming said:

It's time for Putin to bring the hammer down, again. Just my personal opinion. Anyway just thought I'd share, seeing as how I didn't see a thread about this.

It's not time for that. That is part of what is leading to this. A repressive regime pushing desperate people to resort to terrorism.

The answer to what is wrong in Russia isn't to hurt innocent civilians, and these terrorist attacks are absolutely reprehensible. But the response to them should not be for Putin to tighten his grip even further. That would be the worst response, not only for hurting average Russian citizens even further, but also because it would likely just inspire more attacks like this.

Russia doesn't need any more of a hammer coming down. They need serious reforms.

Online
#8 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@thedudeofgaming said:

It's time for Putin to bring the hammer down, again. Just my personal opinion. Anyway just thought I'd share, seeing as how I didn't see a thread about this.

It's not time for that. That is what this is all about. A repressive regime pushing desperate people to resort to terrorism.

The answer to what is wrong isn't to hurt innocent civilians, and these terrorist attacks are absolutely reprehensible. But the response to them should not be for Putin to tighten his grip even further. That would be the worst response, not only for hurting average Russian citizens even further, but also because it would likely just inspire more attacks like this.

Russia doesn't need any more of a hammer coming down. They need serious reforms.

First off, it depends on the intensity of the attack. If you make it clear to the terrorists that any attack will cost them far more than Russia, they'll either stop or be eradicated.

Secondly, what of the repression of Iraq and Afghanistan? Maybe they should make a couple of attacks on US targets, so people can hear their cry for help?

Might makes right.

#9 Edited by RecSpec (3764 posts) -

I wouldn't necessarily say "bring the hammer down." But with the Olympics coming up in a couple months, you have to at least prove to the rest of the world that it's going to be safe.

#10 Posted by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

@truthtellah said:

@thedudeofgaming said:

It's time for Putin to bring the hammer down, again. Just my personal opinion. Anyway just thought I'd share, seeing as how I didn't see a thread about this.

It's not time for that. That is what this is all about. A repressive regime pushing desperate people to resort to terrorism.

The answer to what is wrong isn't to hurt innocent civilians, and these terrorist attacks are absolutely reprehensible. But the response to them should not be for Putin to tighten his grip even further. That would be the worst response, not only for hurting average Russian citizens even further, but also because it would likely just inspire more attacks like this.

Russia doesn't need any more of a hammer coming down. They need serious reforms.

First off, it depends on the intensity of the attack. If you make it clear to the terrorists that any attack will cost them far more than Russia, they'll either stop or be eradicated.

Secondly, what of the repression of Iraq and Afghanistan? Maybe they should make a couple of attacks on US targets, so people can hear their cry for help?

Might makes right.

If all you do when you see an attack like this is to ask for greater repression by a dictator, then you are misled. These attacks are evil, but in responding to evils, you shouldn't just be willing to support any other evil in response.

These violent terrorist attacks are terrible, and they are not the way to bring awareness of grievances. I would not wish them on any nation, and I would certainly not wish them here. A government cracking down on its people yet again and restricting freedoms even further is also terrible, and to respond in such a manner would only mean greater pain and loss in the nation. It is not what Russia or any nation needs.

Online
#11 Posted by Stonyman65 (2591 posts) -

Seems like stuff like this is getting worse and worse, and more frequent. Its horrible.

Any idea on the motive? I'm guessing something Islam related? I haven't really read any news yet besides just hearing that something happened.

I guess the silver lining here (if you can call it that) is that its sounds like the blast was fairly contained. If the assholes knew what they were doing they just as easily used it to create a shockwave and brought the whole building down...

#12 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4597 posts) -

My condolences to the friends, families, and people affected by these attacks. Hopefully there will be a swift resolution to this bullshit.

Be safe out there duders.

#13 Edited by isomeri (1225 posts) -

@stonyman65 said:

Seems like stuff like this is getting worse and worse, and more frequent. Its horrible.

Any idea on the motive? I'm guessing something Islam related? I haven't really read any news yet besides just hearing that something happened.

Russia is the largest country in the world with the second longest border in the world. In essence there are a lot of countries to have border disputes with and a lot of areas demanding independence. The timing was probably meant to gain attention before the coming winter Olympics.

#14 Posted by MB (11984 posts) -

Russia doesn't play with kid gloves on, the consequences of these attacks are going to be severe.

Moderator
#15 Edited by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

@isomeri said:

@stonyman65 said:

Seems like stuff like this is getting worse and worse, and more frequent. Its horrible.

Any idea on the motive? I'm guessing something Islam related? I haven't really read any news yet besides just hearing that something happened.

Russia is the largest country in the world with the second longest border in the world. In essence there are a lot of countries to have border disputes with and a lot of areas demanding independence. The timing was probably meant to gain attention before the coming winter Olympics.

They have also struck two major avenues for traveling to the Olympic games in Russia; so, they seem to be suggesting that similar such attacks might occur during the games. It's certainly a rather frightening possibility to place in people's minds.

Hopefully they catch the particular terrorists involved in planning these attacks before anyone else is hurt.

Online
#16 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@thedudeofgaming said:

@truthtellah said:

@thedudeofgaming said:

It's time for Putin to bring the hammer down, again. Just my personal opinion. Anyway just thought I'd share, seeing as how I didn't see a thread about this.

It's not time for that. That is what this is all about. A repressive regime pushing desperate people to resort to terrorism.

The answer to what is wrong isn't to hurt innocent civilians, and these terrorist attacks are absolutely reprehensible. But the response to them should not be for Putin to tighten his grip even further. That would be the worst response, not only for hurting average Russian citizens even further, but also because it would likely just inspire more attacks like this.

Russia doesn't need any more of a hammer coming down. They need serious reforms.

First off, it depends on the intensity of the attack. If you make it clear to the terrorists that any attack will cost them far more than Russia, they'll either stop or be eradicated.

Secondly, what of the repression of Iraq and Afghanistan? Maybe they should make a couple of attacks on US targets, so people can hear their cry for help?

Might makes right.

If all you do when you see an attack like this is to ask for greater repression by a dictator, then you are misled. These attacks are evil, but in responding to evils, you shouldn't just be willing to support any other evil in response.

These violent terrorist attacks are terrible, and they are not the way to bring awareness of grievances. I would not wish them on any nation, and I would certainly not wish them here. A government cracking down on its people yet again and restricting freedoms even further is also terrible, and to respond in such a manner would only mean greater pain and loss in the nation. It is not what Russia or any nation needs.

I disagree. Giving into any and all demands of any terrorist, regardless of motivation, shows that they can win, and do so using the most vile and disgusting strategy of the modern age.

And what of the children who lost their parents in the attacks? Do you think that they'll forget what was done? It is a vicious cycle, but one that, I assure you, won't end with Russian blood.

I admire your views, and pity them. Admire because they would lead to a better world. I pity them because we're not living in a better world. To put it bluntly, people shouldn't be looked on as good or evil. But as those who are killing, and those who are killed. You decide which is better.

#17 Edited by PandaBear (1303 posts) -

@isomeri said:

@stonyman65 said:

Seems like stuff like this is getting worse and worse, and more frequent. Its horrible.

Any idea on the motive? I'm guessing something Islam related? I haven't really read any news yet besides just hearing that something happened.

Russia is the largest country in the world with the second longest border in the world. In essence there are a lot of countries to have border disputes with and a lot of areas demanding independence. The timing was probably meant to gain attention before the coming winter Olympics.

They have also struck two major avenues for traveling to the Olympic games in Russia; so, they seem to be suggesting that similar such attacks might occur during the games. It's certainly a rather frightening possibility to place in people's minds.

Hopefully they catch the particular terrorists involved in planning these attacks.

Oh you mean the Olympics in Sochi? A place that is literally 15 hours drive away? I wouldn't leap to such conclusions just yet.

#18 Posted by Evilsbane (4539 posts) -

...Modern age my ass.

#19 Posted by I_Stay_Puft (3027 posts) -

Goddamn, hopefully all the eastern euro block is alright up there.

#20 Edited by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

@truthtellah said:

@thedudeofgaming said:

@truthtellah said:

@thedudeofgaming said:

It's time for Putin to bring the hammer down, again. Just my personal opinion. Anyway just thought I'd share, seeing as how I didn't see a thread about this.

It's not time for that. That is what this is all about. A repressive regime pushing desperate people to resort to terrorism.

The answer to what is wrong isn't to hurt innocent civilians, and these terrorist attacks are absolutely reprehensible. But the response to them should not be for Putin to tighten his grip even further. That would be the worst response, not only for hurting average Russian citizens even further, but also because it would likely just inspire more attacks like this.

Russia doesn't need any more of a hammer coming down. They need serious reforms.

First off, it depends on the intensity of the attack. If you make it clear to the terrorists that any attack will cost them far more than Russia, they'll either stop or be eradicated.

Secondly, what of the repression of Iraq and Afghanistan? Maybe they should make a couple of attacks on US targets, so people can hear their cry for help?

Might makes right.

If all you do when you see an attack like this is to ask for greater repression by a dictator, then you are misled. These attacks are evil, but in responding to evils, you shouldn't just be willing to support any other evil in response.

These violent terrorist attacks are terrible, and they are not the way to bring awareness of grievances. I would not wish them on any nation, and I would certainly not wish them here. A government cracking down on its people yet again and restricting freedoms even further is also terrible, and to respond in such a manner would only mean greater pain and loss in the nation. It is not what Russia or any nation needs.

I disagree. Giving into any and all demands of any terrorist, regardless of motivation, shows that they can win, and do so using the most vile and disgusting strategy of the modern age.

And what of the children who lost their parents in the attacks? Do you think that they'll forget what was done? It is a vicious cycle, but one that, I assure you, won't end with Russian blood.

I admire your views, and pity them. Admire because they would lead to a better world. I pity them because we're not living in a better world. To put it bluntly, people shouldn't be looked on as good or evil. But as those who are killing, and those who are killed. You decide which is better.

So, if people are making good demands for freedom and then a terrorist comes along and supports the same thing, those good demands are no longer good?

Russia should make reforms because they're the right thing to do regardless of whether any terrorists want them or not. The reason shouldn't be out of fear of more attacks but out of realization that it's the right thing to do. The possible nice side effect is getting rid of major reasons for such attacks.

By clamping down even further, Russia would only see greater bloodshed and an even lower quality of life. Many Russians have seen in their own lifetimes that the government loosening its tight grip is better for them than the alternative that crushed them for decades. They should not allow violent people to push them back into those darker times. Instead, they should recognize that everyone gains from undoing Putin's grip and opening the door for possible self-governance by some parts of the country still claimed by Russia.

I am in favor of Russia also undoing recent efforts to crack down on homosexuals and anyone that might support their right to exist in the nation, and even if some terrorist came along and blew themselves up in support of that, I'd still believe that homosexuals should not have to fear for their lives for simply being who they are.

Terrorists shouldn't dictate public policy, and cracking down would only give them even greater reason and support to keep spreading such senseless violence. In the interests of protecting their people from terrorist threats, Russia should lawfully pursue the criminals orchestrating the plots, and in the interests of protecting their people from their own repressive government, they should choose to pursue reforms.

Online
#21 Edited by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@evilsbane said:

...Modern age my ass.

Right? It's a common misconception. Can't say I blame those deceived, we do act civilized most of the time. But deep down... well, we're still animals deep down.

And Russia has free hands to do whatever it wants right now. Kind of like the US after 9/11.

#22 Posted by Evilsbane (4539 posts) -

...Modern age my ass.

I hope Russia does the right thing, find the people responsible and leave it at that.

What horror men will wrought upon each other to make point.

#23 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4597 posts) -

@truthtellah: Just out of curiosity but do you really think that this is the right thread to get the name and shame going for how the Russian government has been acting lately?

#24 Posted by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

@truthtellah said:

@isomeri said:

@stonyman65 said:

Seems like stuff like this is getting worse and worse, and more frequent. Its horrible.

Any idea on the motive? I'm guessing something Islam related? I haven't really read any news yet besides just hearing that something happened.

Russia is the largest country in the world with the second longest border in the world. In essence there are a lot of countries to have border disputes with and a lot of areas demanding independence. The timing was probably meant to gain attention before the coming winter Olympics.

They have also struck two major avenues for traveling to the Olympic games in Russia; so, they seem to be suggesting that similar such attacks might occur during the games. It's certainly a rather frightening possibility to place in people's minds.

Hopefully they catch the particular terrorists involved in planning these attacks.

Oh you mean the Olympics in Sochi? A place that is literally 15 hours drive away? I wouldn't leap to such conclusions just yet.

As far as the size of Russia and the major lines of transport, yeah, I'd say Sochi is reasonably close to these bombings and Chechnya. Volgograd is a major hub of train transport for anyone going to Sochi from inside southern Russia, and during the Olympics, it will likely be packed even further than it usually is. Even if these particular attacks aren't related to the Olympics, it does still raise serious questions about their security for the event, and it's understandable for people to have greater fear from that.

Online
#25 Edited by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -
@oldirtybearon said:

@truthtellah: Just out of curiosity but do you really think that this is the right thread to get the name and shame going for how the Russian government has been acting lately?

You know, I somewhat agree, but when someone suggests that people should rally around another Russian crackdown by Putin, I think that it would be wrong not to respond to it to some extent. Obviously, the main focus is on the tragic loss of life, but if someone suggests that one of the responses should be greater repressive action, then it should at least be responded to in some fashion. A lot of times, in the wake of attacks like this, people call for blood and suggest that anything and everything be done, and that isn't right. Because, unfortunately, people often follow through on it.

I'm done talking about it if others don't want to discuss it, but I think it needed to be noted that responding to evil with further evil is possibly the worst response anyone could have.

Online
#26 Posted by slyspider (1155 posts) -

Russia doesn't fuck around. Have zero understanding of Russian politics so I can't comment on the morally correctness of their cause, but hey they are killing civs so that's not ok in any way at all.

#27 Posted by Animasta (14648 posts) -

Russia should just give Dagestan to Azerbaijan or something

#28 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7051 posts) -

@oldirtybearon said:

@truthtellah: Just out of curiosity but do you really think that this is the right thread to get the name and shame going for how the Russian government has been acting lately?

You know, I somewhat agree, but when someone suggests that people should rally around another Russian crackdown by Putin, I think that it would be wrong not to respond to it to some extent. Obviously, the main focus is on the tragic loss of life, but if someone suggests that one of the responses should be greater repressive action, then it should at least be responded to in some fashion. A lot of times, in the wake of attacks like this, people call for blood and suggest that anything and everything be done, and that isn't right. Because, unfortunately, people often follow through on it.

I'm done talking about it if others don't want to discuss it, but I think it needed to be noted that responding to evil with further evil is possibly the worst response anyone could have.

Yep. Putin has alienated enough people as it is with his policies the last few years, including most Western leaders. Being even more repressive is probably not the way to go. It's most certainly tempting, when overcome with grief from a percieved injustice, to seek some sort of vengeance, but that rarely works out for anyone involved. This incident was clearly caused by such things and it will only lead to more if Putin becomes more oppressive.

#29 Edited by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@truthtellah said:
@oldirtybearon said:

@truthtellah: Just out of curiosity but do you really think that this is the right thread to get the name and shame going for how the Russian government has been acting lately?

You know, I somewhat agree, but when someone suggests that people should rally around another Russian crackdown by Putin, I think that it would be wrong not to respond to it to some extent. Obviously, the main focus is on the tragic loss of life, but if someone suggests that one of the responses should be greater repressive action, then it should at least be responded to in some fashion. A lot of times, in the wake of attacks like this, people call for blood and suggest that anything and everything be done, and that isn't right. Because, unfortunately, people often follow through on it.

I'm done talking about it if others don't want to discuss it, but I think it needed to be noted that responding to evil with further evil is possibly the worst response anyone could have.

Yep. Putin has alienated enough people as it is with his policies the last few years, including most Western leaders. Being even more repressive is probably not the way to go. It's most certainly tempting, when overcome with grief from a percieved injustice, to seek some sort of vengeance, but that rarely works out for anyone involved. This incident was clearly caused by such things and it will only lead to more if Putin becomes more oppressive.

Putin doesn't give a fuck about the west's opinion on most things, neither do Russians. Sorry, guess there's still a small part of the world that doesn't go along with whatever you say. And as long as Putin does that, he's great in my book.

And YOU'RE the motherfuckers who are using drones that end up killing hundreds of civilians... oups, collateral damage. Not to mention all the spying. And you've started more wars than Russia ever did. And you know what, all of that is fine, if you weren't so hypocritical about it.

As for the second part, tell me you're fucking kidding me right now.

#30 Edited by Random45 (1051 posts) -

The ones who commit these attacks are scum. I don't understand why people like this decide to kill themselves and take out so many other innocents completely unrelated to the incident they are crusading. Simply for being born in the nation they dislike, they deserve to be killed? Pisses me off to think about it.

#31 Edited by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

@thedudeofgaming said:

@mariachimacabre said:

@truthtellah said:
@oldirtybearon said:

@truthtellah: Just out of curiosity but do you really think that this is the right thread to get the name and shame going for how the Russian government has been acting lately?

You know, I somewhat agree, but when someone suggests that people should rally around another Russian crackdown by Putin, I think that it would be wrong not to respond to it to some extent. Obviously, the main focus is on the tragic loss of life, but if someone suggests that one of the responses should be greater repressive action, then it should at least be responded to in some fashion. A lot of times, in the wake of attacks like this, people call for blood and suggest that anything and everything be done, and that isn't right. Because, unfortunately, people often follow through on it.

I'm done talking about it if others don't want to discuss it, but I think it needed to be noted that responding to evil with further evil is possibly the worst response anyone could have.

Yep. Putin has alienated enough people as it is with his policies the last few years, including most Western leaders. Being even more repressive is probably not the way to go. It's most certainly tempting, when overcome with grief from a percieved injustice, to seek some sort of vengeance, but that rarely works out for anyone involved. This incident was clearly caused by such things and it will only lead to more if Putin becomes more oppressive.

Putin doesn't give a fuck about the west's opinion on most things, neither do Russians. Sorry, guess there's still a small part of the world that doesn't go along with whatever you say. And as long as Putin does that, he's great in my book.

And YOU'RE the motherfuckers who are using drones that end up killing hundreds of civilians... oups, collateral damage. Not to mention all the spying. And you've started more wars than Russia ever did. And you know what, all of that is fine, if you weren't so hypocritical about it.

As for the second part, tell me you're fucking kidding me right now.

That's nuts. I'm guessing you're just using hyperbole to disagree here, but as long as Putin thumbs his nose at others, he's "great" in your book? Putin is in no way "great". You know he's a monstrous man who has manipulated the Russian democracy to remain in power and consolidate ever greater control, and he has not been good for Russia. He is actively restricting freedoms and harming citizens, and there is no real hope that he is going to turn over a new leaf and let up any of his grip any time soon.

You may hate the US or anyone outside Russia, but Putin does not deserve your love out of spite. Even in jest, saying that Putin is "great" isn't right for anyone to suggest.

Online
#32 Edited by TheHT (10890 posts) -

Putin doesn't give a fuck about the west's opinion on most things, neither do Russians. Sorry, guess there's still a small part of the world that doesn't go along with whatever you say. And as long as Putin does that, he's great in my book.

And YOU'RE the motherfuckers who are using drones that end up killing hundreds of civilians... oups, collateral damage. Not to mention all the spying. And you've started more wars than Russia ever did. And you know what, all of that is fine, if you weren't so hypocritical about it.

As for the second part, tell me you're fucking kidding me right now.

You're making some huge assumptions about the people you're responding to. It's very possible to disagree with the policy and actions of more than one nation, even one that happens to be your own.

#33 Edited by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@truthtellah said:

@thedudeofgaming said:

@mariachimacabre said:

@truthtellah said:
@oldirtybearon said:

@truthtellah: Just out of curiosity but do you really think that this is the right thread to get the name and shame going for how the Russian government has been acting lately?

You know, I somewhat agree, but when someone suggests that people should rally around another Russian crackdown by Putin, I think that it would be wrong not to respond to it to some extent. Obviously, the main focus is on the tragic loss of life, but if someone suggests that one of the responses should be greater repressive action, then it should at least be responded to in some fashion. A lot of times, in the wake of attacks like this, people call for blood and suggest that anything and everything be done, and that isn't right. Because, unfortunately, people often follow through on it.

I'm done talking about it if others don't want to discuss it, but I think it needed to be noted that responding to evil with further evil is possibly the worst response anyone could have.

Yep. Putin has alienated enough people as it is with his policies the last few years, including most Western leaders. Being even more repressive is probably not the way to go. It's most certainly tempting, when overcome with grief from a percieved injustice, to seek some sort of vengeance, but that rarely works out for anyone involved. This incident was clearly caused by such things and it will only lead to more if Putin becomes more oppressive.

Putin doesn't give a fuck about the west's opinion on most things, neither do Russians. Sorry, guess there's still a small part of the world that doesn't go along with whatever you say. And as long as Putin does that, he's great in my book.

And YOU'RE the motherfuckers who are using drones that end up killing hundreds of civilians... oups, collateral damage. Not to mention all the spying. And you've started more wars than Russia ever did. And you know what, all of that is fine, if you weren't so hypocritical about it.

As for the second part, tell me you're fucking kidding me right now.

That's nuts. I'm guessing you're just using hyperbole to disagree here, but as long as Putin thumbs his nose at others, he's "great" in your book? Putin is in no way "great". You know he's a monstrous man who has manipulated the Russian democracy to remain in power and consolidate ever greater control, and he has not been good for Russia. He is actively restricting freedoms and harming citizens, and there is no real hope that he is going to turn over a new leaf and let up any of his grip any time soon.

You may hate the US or anyone outside Russia, but Putin does not deserve your love out of spite. Even in jest, saying that Putin is "great" isn't right for anyone to suggest.

Don't see what Putin's domestic policies have to do with his foreign policies. In regards to Russia's interests in foreign policy, he has done nothing but protect them. You seem to be hung up on his domestic policy. Don't see what it has to do with you, since I assume you never even resided in Russia.

He's prolonged his stay in office. How is he restricting the freedoms and harming citizens apart from that? He's not the one who has authorized spying on the citizens of his own country.

Basically, to summarize your opinion. "Putin is bad because the news told me so". The protests organized against Putin numbered several tens of thousands. Russia is a country that numbers 150.000.000 people when the protests are in the several hundreds of thousands, come back to me.

"To learn who rules over you, simply learn who you are not allowed to criticize."

-Voltaire

#34 Posted by yoshisaur (2648 posts) -

Repression or not, these monsters are destroying innocent peoples lives in order to front their own agenda. Tired of this bullshit surrounding terrorism that tries to shed light on a tortmented people retaliating. Fine, retaliate against the assholes who did this to you. Not the citizens of a nation who literally have no say in what has been done to you. Fucking sick.

#35 Posted by xaLieNxGrEyx (2605 posts) -

@mb said:

Russia doesn't play with kid gloves on, the consequences of these attacks are going to be severe.

Chances are they'll retaliate without anyone ever knowing

#36 Edited by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

@thedudeofgaming said:

@truthtellah said:

@thedudeofgaming said:

@mariachimacabre said:

@truthtellah said:
@oldirtybearon said:

@truthtellah: Just out of curiosity but do you really think that this is the right thread to get the name and shame going for how the Russian government has been acting lately?

You know, I somewhat agree, but when someone suggests that people should rally around another Russian crackdown by Putin, I think that it would be wrong not to respond to it to some extent. Obviously, the main focus is on the tragic loss of life, but if someone suggests that one of the responses should be greater repressive action, then it should at least be responded to in some fashion. A lot of times, in the wake of attacks like this, people call for blood and suggest that anything and everything be done, and that isn't right. Because, unfortunately, people often follow through on it.

I'm done talking about it if others don't want to discuss it, but I think it needed to be noted that responding to evil with further evil is possibly the worst response anyone could have.

Yep. Putin has alienated enough people as it is with his policies the last few years, including most Western leaders. Being even more repressive is probably not the way to go. It's most certainly tempting, when overcome with grief from a percieved injustice, to seek some sort of vengeance, but that rarely works out for anyone involved. This incident was clearly caused by such things and it will only lead to more if Putin becomes more oppressive.

Putin doesn't give a fuck about the west's opinion on most things, neither do Russians. Sorry, guess there's still a small part of the world that doesn't go along with whatever you say. And as long as Putin does that, he's great in my book.

And YOU'RE the motherfuckers who are using drones that end up killing hundreds of civilians... oups, collateral damage. Not to mention all the spying. And you've started more wars than Russia ever did. And you know what, all of that is fine, if you weren't so hypocritical about it.

As for the second part, tell me you're fucking kidding me right now.

That's nuts. I'm guessing you're just using hyperbole to disagree here, but as long as Putin thumbs his nose at others, he's "great" in your book? Putin is in no way "great". You know he's a monstrous man who has manipulated the Russian democracy to remain in power and consolidate ever greater control, and he has not been good for Russia. He is actively restricting freedoms and harming citizens, and there is no real hope that he is going to turn over a new leaf and let up any of his grip any time soon.

You may hate the US or anyone outside Russia, but Putin does not deserve your love out of spite. Even in jest, saying that Putin is "great" isn't right for anyone to suggest.

Don't see what Putin's domestic policies have to do with his foreign policies. In regards to Russia's interests in foreign policy, he has done nothing but protect them. You seem to be hung up on his domestic policy. Don't see what it has to do with you, since I assume you never even resided in Russia.

He's prolonged his stay in office. How is he restricting the freedoms and harming citizens apart from that? He's not the one who has authorized spying on the citizens of his own country.

Basically, to summarize your opinion. "Putin is bad because the news told me so". The protests organized against Putin numbered several tens of thousands. Russia is a country that numbers 150.000.000 people when the protests are in the several hundreds of thousands, come back to me.

"To learn who rules over you, simply learn who you are not allowed to criticize."

-Voltaire

I'm pretty sure your quote contradicts your point about the number of protesters.

Heck, I'd say that quote is perfect for what I'm saying. So, thanks for sharing it.

I'm simply criticizing two serious threats to Russia. The scum that would use terrorist attacks on civilians and the man who would work to continue the oppression of those civilians.

Online
#37 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@thedudeofgaming said:

@truthtellah said:

@thedudeofgaming said:

@mariachimacabre said:

@truthtellah said:
@oldirtybearon said:

@truthtellah: Just out of curiosity but do you really think that this is the right thread to get the name and shame going for how the Russian government has been acting lately?

You know, I somewhat agree, but when someone suggests that people should rally around another Russian crackdown by Putin, I think that it would be wrong not to respond to it to some extent. Obviously, the main focus is on the tragic loss of life, but if someone suggests that one of the responses should be greater repressive action, then it should at least be responded to in some fashion. A lot of times, in the wake of attacks like this, people call for blood and suggest that anything and everything be done, and that isn't right. Because, unfortunately, people often follow through on it.

I'm done talking about it if others don't want to discuss it, but I think it needed to be noted that responding to evil with further evil is possibly the worst response anyone could have.

Yep. Putin has alienated enough people as it is with his policies the last few years, including most Western leaders. Being even more repressive is probably not the way to go. It's most certainly tempting, when overcome with grief from a percieved injustice, to seek some sort of vengeance, but that rarely works out for anyone involved. This incident was clearly caused by such things and it will only lead to more if Putin becomes more oppressive.

Putin doesn't give a fuck about the west's opinion on most things, neither do Russians. Sorry, guess there's still a small part of the world that doesn't go along with whatever you say. And as long as Putin does that, he's great in my book.

And YOU'RE the motherfuckers who are using drones that end up killing hundreds of civilians... oups, collateral damage. Not to mention all the spying. And you've started more wars than Russia ever did. And you know what, all of that is fine, if you weren't so hypocritical about it.

As for the second part, tell me you're fucking kidding me right now.

That's nuts. I'm guessing you're just using hyperbole to disagree here, but as long as Putin thumbs his nose at others, he's "great" in your book? Putin is in no way "great". You know he's a monstrous man who has manipulated the Russian democracy to remain in power and consolidate ever greater control, and he has not been good for Russia. He is actively restricting freedoms and harming citizens, and there is no real hope that he is going to turn over a new leaf and let up any of his grip any time soon.

You may hate the US or anyone outside Russia, but Putin does not deserve your love out of spite. Even in jest, saying that Putin is "great" isn't right for anyone to suggest.

Don't see what Putin's domestic policies have to do with his foreign policies. In regards to Russia's interests in foreign policy, he has done nothing but protect them. You seem to be hung up on his domestic policy. Don't see what it has to do with you, since I assume you never even resided in Russia.

He's prolonged his stay in office. How is he restricting the freedoms and harming citizens apart from that? He's not the one who has authorized spying on the citizens of his own country.

Basically, to summarize your opinion. "Putin is bad because the news told me so". The protests organized against Putin numbered several tens of thousands. Russia is a country that numbers 150.000.000 people when the protests are in the several hundreds of thousands, come back to me.

"To learn who rules over you, simply learn who you are not allowed to criticize."

-Voltaire

I'm pretty sure your quote contradicts your point about the number of protesters.

Heck, I'd say that quote is perfect for what I'm saying. So, thanks for sharing it.

I'm simply criticizing two serious threats to Russia. The scum that would use terrorist attacks on civilians and the man who would work to continue the oppression of those civilians.

There are many outspoken Putin critics in Russia. It's not like you speak out against Putin and the next thing you know you're on a train to a Siberian work camp.

You still haven't given me examples of the "oppression" but okay, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

#38 Edited by Fattony12000 (7053 posts) -
@pandabear said:

Oh you mean the Olympics in Sochi? A place that is literally 15 hours drive away? I wouldn't leap to such conclusions just yet.

15 hours via car, yes. But only about 15 seconds away via Twitter and Facebook and YouTube and 24 hour rolling news coverage and HD video streaming/recording from people's phones that they carry around in their pockets and the whole entire World Wide Web.

#39 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -
@pandabear said:

Oh you mean the Olympics in Sochi? A place that is literally 15 hours drive away? I wouldn't leap to such conclusions just yet.

15 hours via car, yes. But only about 15 seconds away via Twitter and Facebook and YouTube and 24 hour rolling news coverage and HD video streaming/recording from people's phones that they carry around in their pockets and the whole entire World Wide Web.

Sochi is 600 miles away from Volgograd to be exact. Analysts are currently saying that there's very little to no chance that Sochi will see any attacks despite the close proximity to the North Caucasus.

Also the main post is updated with news of a suspect behind the attacks.

#40 Posted by alwaysbebombing (1539 posts) -

Putin is already so close to tipping the scales to being another Stalin. (Though some have argued he's already there) He's going to do something real stupid soon.

#41 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

Putin is already so close to tipping the scales to being another Stalin. (Though some have argued he's already there) He's going to do something real stupid soon.

Yup. He already sent millions of people to their deaths in gulags, and purged an incredible number of his perceived political adversaries as well as creating and maintaining a cult of personality.

Care to rephrase your post?

#42 Posted by alwaysbebombing (1539 posts) -

@alwaysbebombing said:

Putin is already so close to tipping the scales to being another Stalin. (Though some have argued he's already there) He's going to do something real stupid soon.

Yup. He already sent millions of people to their deaths in gulags, and purged an incredible number of his perceived political adversaries as well as creating and maintaining a cult of personality.

Care to rephrase your post?

No, I'm going to keep it. He's destroyed what little democracy they had left. Pretty much anyone in a major political position is his best buddy. He's changed the rules to allow himself even more political might and stay leader as much as he wanted. He's massacred innocent people who wanted their independence, instead of just making SAR's like China did. Anyone who stands up to him lands in prison as a political prisoner. Not to mention a big part of his platform is just passing laws to thumb his nose at the West. The man is a dangerous, arrogant, leader who does not care about the Russian people in anyway.

#43 Edited by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@alwaysbebombing said:

@thedudeofgaming said:

@alwaysbebombing said:

Putin is already so close to tipping the scales to being another Stalin. (Though some have argued he's already there) He's going to do something real stupid soon.

Yup. He already sent millions of people to their deaths in gulags, and purged an incredible number of his perceived political adversaries as well as creating and maintaining a cult of personality.

Care to rephrase your post?

No, I'm going to keep it. He's destroyed what little democracy they had left. Pretty much anyone in a major political position is his best buddy. He's changed the rules to allow himself even more political might and stay leader as much as he wanted. He's massacred innocent people who wanted their independence, instead of just making SAR's like China did. Anyone who stands up to him lands in prison as a political prisoner. Not to mention a big part of his platform is just passing laws to thumb his nose at the West. The man is a dangerous, arrogant, leader who does not care about the Russian people in anyway.

No, he doesn't do as west dictates. That's what makes him dangerous. I'm sure you'd love to see another puppet like Yeltsin in power. Never going to happen again. If people who elected Bush, twice, not once tell you something is wrong, you must be doing something right.

Massacred innocent people who wanted their independence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

That's how they went about it, got what they deserved. Also I guess that saying rings true "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." I'll make sure to take special note, and quote it when someone attacks the US again. If you cared to read the update in the main post, you'd see that right after Russia the US is the next primary target for the radicals.

#44 Edited by alwaysbebombing (1539 posts) -

@alwaysbebombing said:

@thedudeofgaming said:

@alwaysbebombing said:

Putin is already so close to tipping the scales to being another Stalin. (Though some have argued he's already there) He's going to do something real stupid soon.

Yup. He already sent millions of people to their deaths in gulags, and purged an incredible number of his perceived political adversaries as well as creating and maintaining a cult of personality.

Care to rephrase your post?

No, I'm going to keep it. He's destroyed what little democracy they had left. Pretty much anyone in a major political position is his best buddy. He's changed the rules to allow himself even more political might and stay leader as much as he wanted. He's massacred innocent people who wanted their independence, instead of just making SAR's like China did. Anyone who stands up to him lands in prison as a political prisoner. Not to mention a big part of his platform is just passing laws to thumb his nose at the West. The man is a dangerous, arrogant, leader who does not care about the Russian people in anyway.

No, he doesn't do as west dictates. That's what makes him dangerous. I'm sure you'd love to see another puppet like Yeltsin in power. Never going to happen again. If people who elected Bush, twice, not once tell you something is wrong, you must be doing something right.

Massacred innocent people who wanted their independence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

That's how they went about it, got what they deserved. Also I guess that saying rings true "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." I'll make sure to take special note, and quote it when someone attacks the US again. If you cared to read the update in the main post, you'd see that right after Russia the US is the next primary target for the radicals.

I feel into the trap of arguing with someone on the internet. I know what my New Year's resolution is going to be.

#45 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

@thedudeofgaming: FDR was also Stalin, as was every King who reigned more than 8 years; confirmed. They were Hitler too, Godwin'd.

#46 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (2569 posts) -

Politics. Force begets force, violence begets violence. As terrible as it sounds Russia needs to negotiate with it terror using Muslim populations. They should have been dealing with it Muslim population instead of pounding on them of the past 30 years. Russia's current idea of making sure regional Slavic populations are always on-top economically, socially, and politically in Eastern Europe is going nowhere good.

#47 Edited by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@monkeyking1969: That could have been one way of dealing with the situation. Too late for that now. What could have or should have been no longer matters.

@alwaysbebombing said:
@thedudeofgaming said:

@alwaysbebombing said:

@thedudeofgaming said:

@alwaysbebombing said:

Putin is already so close to tipping the scales to being another Stalin. (Though some have argued he's already there) He's going to do something real stupid soon.

Yup. He already sent millions of people to their deaths in gulags, and purged an incredible number of his perceived political adversaries as well as creating and maintaining a cult of personality.

Care to rephrase your post?

No, I'm going to keep it. He's destroyed what little democracy they had left. Pretty much anyone in a major political position is his best buddy. He's changed the rules to allow himself even more political might and stay leader as much as he wanted. He's massacred innocent people who wanted their independence, instead of just making SAR's like China did. Anyone who stands up to him lands in prison as a political prisoner. Not to mention a big part of his platform is just passing laws to thumb his nose at the West. The man is a dangerous, arrogant, leader who does not care about the Russian people in anyway.

No, he doesn't do as west dictates. That's what makes him dangerous. I'm sure you'd love to see another puppet like Yeltsin in power. Never going to happen again. If people who elected Bush, twice, not once tell you something is wrong, you must be doing something right.

Massacred innocent people who wanted their independence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

That's how they went about it, got what they deserved. Also I guess that saying rings true "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." I'll make sure to take special note, and quote it when someone attacks the US again. If you cared to read the update in the main post, you'd see that right after Russia the US is the next primary target for the radicals.

I feel into the trap of arguing with someone on the internet. I know what my New Year's resolution is going to be.

Taking a wild guess here, but it's something about not getting into arguments with random people on the internet? And maybe not defending terrorist motivations?

Anyway, guess it's fine so long as the US isn't the target.

It's new years and I've got places to be and liquor to drink.

#48 Posted by Wilshere (287 posts) -

Targeting civilians is just not right. Maybe its time for the rocket powered hammer.

#49 Posted by Demoskinos (14563 posts) -

I'm not going to sit here and make fun of this but I'll be honest the first thing that popped into my head upon reading the title was "No Russian"

#50 Posted by dudeglove (7688 posts) -

How cute that you people think you all know what you're talking about! Before anything else, there have not been three attacks in the past two days. There were two bombs (one in Volgograd railway station, the second on a trolleybus) in the past two days. However, a third attack did take place a couple of months ago in the Volgograd region when a woman called Naida Asilyalova, drove about 530 miles all the way from Makhachkala to Volgograd (Sochi is only about 600 away from Makhachkala) to blow herself up on a bus, killing six people and wounding 30.

Getting back on topic, go back about two years ago and there were two metro bombings (stations Park Kultury and Lubyanka) in Moscow that killed about 40 folk in the capital during rush hour. Since then, security in the major cities (Moscow, St. Petersburg, Novosibirsk etc.) has been ramped up considerably. The OP's much vaunted "hammer of Putin" has been very much brought down regularly, and for quite some time, with plenty of military operations that you never hear about wiping out "militants" (the neutral word for supposedly anyone sporting a beard and an AK) in the Caucasus, and most of you never hear about it because journalists in the West are fucking pussies and will never set foot in that area until two kids decide to blow up a marathon in Boston, and even then they don't know what the fuck they're talking about once they get there. In the past half a year alone I've seen a dramatic increase in spot checks (albeit mostly of those of Central Asian appearance) on the metro, and sniffer dogs are a regular sight. Thousands were arrested in raids on markets in the capital earlier this year on the grounds of rooting out illegal migrants and shoved into what are ostensibly gulags out in the Moscow region. Barely a couple of months ago there was a race riot in Southern Moscow too. I'm not particularly looking forward to what sort of security I'll have to endure when I fly back to the country soon, considering athletes and dignitaries are meant to be flying in.

Secondly, the Sochi Olympics is Putin's baby and has been for at least the past 5 years if not more so. Getting the Games to Russia has been his dream since he's come to power. That's one of the reasons why the damn thing has cost so much. Everyone with even a passing interest in Russian politics knows it, and so do the fuckers skulking in the mountains.

Thirdly, suspect Chechen jihadi Doku Umarov's involvement is debatable, considering he faced a revolt by a group of commanders in 2010 and has been less active in the past year. That said, allegedly the day before the first Vologograd attack one of his top aides had been killed in a "security operation" (which is neutral speak for the FSB blowing the shit out of some group of bearded-AKers in the mountains) and so it could very much be seen as a retaliatory attack. For someone such as Umarov, considering both the revolt and his inactivity, and the potential to dissuade athletes from attending the Olympics for security concerns - ANY disruption would be a win for Umarov, both as a strike against the Russian state/Putin and restoring Umarov's standing among his murderous cohorts.

Fourthly, the reason why Volgograd was probably targeted is, especially if the goal of the attacks wasn't primarily against Sochi, it is less secure than and has roughly the same demographic mix up as Moscow. North Caucasus-based groups would only be too delighted for the locals to instigate a race riot or pogrom against Muslims or people from Central Asian states. Provoking violent backlash against anyone who isn't white slav means more destabilization of the Russian state for them and more recruits into the fold after all that blood and broken glass is cleaned up.

TL;DR? Volgograd was bombed because it's easy to hit, and demonstrates the geographical reach whatever North Caucasus group did it, i.e. if they can hit Volgograd - they can just as easily hit Sochi. Attacking Moscow would have had more of a national and international impact, but thankfully it's become harder for them in the past two years.

[As an aside, yes - for those asking - the Russian state does spy on its own people! There's an entire federal agency called FAPSI that employs about 120,000 spooks whose sole job is to go through Russian phone calls, emails and SMSes.]