Posted by lselph (6 posts) -

Surprisingly, or rather not that surprising when it's pondered, women make up a very small portion of the gaming industry. According to the BostonGlobe.com, women only make up 11% of game designers and 3% of programmers. And when it comes to gaming conventions, women are even less prevalent there. One game designer, Filamena Young from Machine Age Productions, stated the reason she doesn't go to the meetings is because:

"Really, I've been groped."

Yep, that's right. Groped. As if that wasn't enough, when women are depicted in games, they're often dressed as porn stars. And more often than they should, they're treated like one too. Sadly, other degrading acts happens every day on Xbox Live, PlayStation Network, and Steam. Men, tending to make up the majority of the online community when it comes to shooters, etc., tend to treat the hubs as water cooler moments. Yet, when this topic is brought up, most game writers talk about the good gestures to do, however, maybe this is the wrong approach. Maybe people need to be taught on what not to do toward women online.

Will it help? Probably not, but it's worth a shot.

First off, quit being the pseudo knight-in-armor. What do I mean by this? Nothing is worse than when someone rushes in and tries to stop the light banter between a girl and a guy to protect her honor. The reason is obvious of course, the guardian angel is just trying to come across as the ultimate savior, allowing nothing to harm the fragile doe. But, ultimately, he just comes across as needy, and overprotective.

Also, another aspect of being a chaperon is trying to revive the girl every, single, frikkin', time she is downed in a fire fight. Case in point, Gears of War. A girl on the COGs team gets downed, Mr. I-Would-Die-For-You748, rushes through the whizzing bullets and explosions to pick her up. Of course he never makes it.

Not even close.

They both needlessly die. Whether he says it out loud or not, he uses this to prove his love to her. Instead of being on Team COG, he is now on Team Disaster.

My next point is quit being an obnoxious attention grabber. To clarify, this is when one has gone from the knight-in-shining armor to a jerk. For instance, jumping in front of a girl's sights just to get them to cry, shout, or just plain quit. Sure, if you know them, then that's different, as long as you know they are okay with it. I'm talking about random strangers. Admittedly, it can be fun at first, maybe even for both involved, but everyone gets tired of jokes. Some faster than others. Besides, they're there to play a game, not watch how fast you can block an entrance and not let them out to shoot the enemy.

Another problem is friendly fire. Why would you shoot your teammate because she is a girl? Instead of trying to work as a unit, you're impeding your groups progress just so that you can look good in front of her or your allies. This is the very definition of a troll that so many claim they're not. Honestly, often this boils down to men thinking of them as a sex interest and lashing out in ways to get eyes on them.

"Yes! Now it's time to ruins someone else's game because they look different than me."

And last of all, don't discredit their gaming prowess just because they're a chick. There are professional gaming leagues out there, such as the Frag Dolls, comprised of nothing but woman, who can stomp down competition that is comprised of mostly men. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say that women are astoundingly better than men at games or vice versa. It mostly depends on who practices more and who has the best innate skills, though there is some evidence that women can multitask better than men. Whether this helps women more in a game is yet to be thoroughly proven. None the less, just because you were born a different sex doesn't mean that you are now going to totally decimate against the other in a game.

In the end, by not being a: over-zealous warrior, an attention gasbag, and disrespecting their game skills, men could make women feel more welcomed amongst the gaming community. Granted, what I mentioned is just the leaves of the planted carrot. There's still many many "don'ts" left. But hey, this is as good a start as any. It may seem fun at times, but we don't need a world before the 14th amendment again.

#1 Edited by kcin (127 posts) -

Good luck with this thread.

#2 Edited by lselph (6 posts) -

Sorry if the pictures are coming off wonky, or not aligned right. In the editor they look fine. I will try to fix them.

#3 Posted by yinstarrunner (1199 posts) -

You really need to think more basic.
Forget women, forget homosexuals, forget ethnicity and all these other specific problems.
The Internet still hasn't learned the cardinal rule:
"Don't be a douchebag."

#4 Edited by Sterling (2293 posts) -

Fuck this shit. I'm going outside.

#5 Posted by JasonR86 (9707 posts) -

Whatever you do, don't call them 'whores', 'bitches', or 'cunts'. That usually doesn't go well. Trust me.

#6 Posted by Hawkerace (280 posts) -

memegenerator and looking for a fight. hooooooo boy.

#7 Posted by dr_mantas (1883 posts) -

I find nothing even remotely useful written here. I'm not exactly sure who you are teaching - certainly no one on this website makes the faux pas you describe.

In the greatness of time and majesty of our universe, all these things seem petty.

#8 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

here I help you.

Do not look at the gender and treat everyone the same. If there is someone nice treat them nice. if they are assholes tell them that.

#9 Edited by Bocam (3752 posts) -
@jasonr86 said:

Whatever you do, don't call them 'whores', 'bitches', or 'cunts'. That usually doesn't go well. Trust me.

Or throw them into tvs.

#10 Posted by joshwent (2207 posts) -

This sounds like a psychopath who's way into FPSs describing etiquette they read about in an old book to a neanderthal with an internet connection.

Treat everyone how you'd want to be treated, and approach every situation with love. No blog necessary.

#11 Edited by OppressiveStink (357 posts) -

The problem with online video games isn't that guys treat women differently, it's because for the most part, women and men are treated with the same derision in online video games, the genders just react to it differently.

The competitive environment of online games breeds a certain type of trash talk (one could describe as vile,) and all participants are treated the same: ie shitty. Because this has gone on so long, some view it as a rite of passage, so if women want to participate in this environment, they expect them to deal with the same bullshit.

Where as, generally speaking (obviously, and from my observation,) female competition does not have this level of abuse considered normal. Thus a stronger reaction to the usual onlime bullshit.

I'm sorry to say, but unless there is a no tolerance approach (which is nearly impossible to apply fairly and consistently,) expect shitty stuff to happen online in perpetuity.

#12 Posted by magicwalnuts (87 posts) -

Here's what you do. You treat them exactly how you would want to be treated. Pretty simple.

#13 Edited by PandaBear (1371 posts) -

EDIT: Removed the rape joke thing because I keep getting quoted about it and I'm kinda losing my mind over it. Kinda. But not really.

@lselph said:

...

There are professional gaming leagues out there, such as the Frag Dolls, comprised of nothing but woman, who can stomp down competition that is comprised of mostly men. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say that women are astoundingly better than men at games or vice versa. It mostly depends on who practices more and who has the best innate skills, though there is some evidence that women can multitask better than men.

....

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104572

It's an old NeoGAF thread but the point is vaild ... the Frag Dolls are part of a long line of "Look you nerds!! Girls!!" marketing. They are the epitome of how even big corporations don't "get it".

You're preaching to us like we're children or you just walked out of your first lecture on sex discrimination or something. Sorry to sound negative, I get you want to make a difference, but this is so didactic.

#14 Posted by Example1013 (4834 posts) -

isn't the internet great? you can spend half an hour writing up random bullshit with no actual forethought or logic applied, and post it for people to read!

#15 Edited by TheMasterDS (2066 posts) -

@pandabear said:

So I had a look at your profile and saw you uploaded this:

So I'd say proliferating rape jokes on a video game forum puts your in the kinda hypocritical camp.

Not to defend this guy because I kind of don't care about the forum post either way (sure, don't treat women like they're totally different frailer animals, that's not what they want and, more importantly, it annoys the original poster. The point is made poorly.) but I'm pretty sure that's a child abuse joke, not a rape joke. Who rapes while whipping someone with a belt? Actually I'd rather not know the answer to that question.

Also he seems to have a weird fetish for images. Like he gets off on posting them. Case in point there's a picture of a werewolf jew in the original post. I do not know why.

#16 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@pandabear: that is not a rape joke and even if it is a funny picture if you know the context. American people really need more black humor^^

#17 Posted by kcin (127 posts) -

@pandabear: It isn't a rape joke, it's an abuse joke (note the belt). Not better or worse, just different.

#18 Edited by GaspoweR (3028 posts) -

@pandabear: That does not look like rape, just looks like someone is about to get punished by getting whipped with a belt. I don't know where you got the idea wherein that is a rape joke.

Online
#19 Posted by Christoffer (1822 posts) -

So there's basically two types of offenders here. The obnoxious idiot who thinks he's funny, and the obnoxious idiot who thinks he's doing the right thing. Will any of these types read and absorb the message of this thread?

#20 Posted by Brodehouse (9949 posts) -

Yikes.

Humans are humans, and you should treat them fairly.

#21 Posted by PandaBear (1371 posts) -

@gaspower: @kcin: @darji:

I hereby retract my "rape joke" comment. Still seems weird coming from the "everybody love everybody" guy.

@darji said:

@pandabear: that is not a rape joke and even if it is a funny picture if you know the context. American people really need more black humor^^

I'm not American.

#22 Edited by joshwent (2207 posts) -

@christoffer said:

So there's basically two types of offenders here. The obnoxious idiot who thinks he's funny, and the obnoxious idiot who thinks he's doing the right thing. Will any of these types read and absorb the message of this thread?

Don't forget the third type; the obnoxious idiot who's above-it-all and shames all involved without adding anything productive of their own. The holy trinity of a pointless thread.

I'm not really sure what profound revelation you got from this thing, but if the message is, "Revise your blogs before they're posted, use fewer incongruent images, and don't take strange random threads too seriously."... consider it absorbed!

@darji said:

@pandabear: that is not a rape joke and even if it is a funny picture if you know the context. American people really need more black humor^^

I'm not American.

Clearly.

The panda (Ailuropoda melanoleuca, lit. "black and white cat-foot"), also known as the giant panda to distinguish it from the unrelated red panda, is a bear native to south central China.

Really Darji. Do some damn research.

#23 Posted by HatKing (5950 posts) -

The messed up thing is that I bet I agree with most of what's said here, but I think the internet has finally made me tired of trying to defend my views. Assholes won the battle of attrition. I've given up on talking about reason with people, I'm just gonna focus on being a decent person myself (usually).

#24 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4805 posts) -

@pandabear said:

So I had a look at your profile and saw you uploaded this:

So I'd say proliferating rape jokes on a video game forum puts your in the kinda hypocritical camp.

That's fucking funny.

#25 Posted by Milkman (16791 posts) -

@hatking said:

The messed up thing is that I bet I agree with most of what's said here, but I think the internet has finally made me tired of trying to defend my views. Assholes won the battle of attrition. I've given up on talking about reason with people, I'm just gonna focus on being a decent person myself (usually).

That's unfortunate but I can't say I blame you.

#26 Posted by Christoffer (1822 posts) -

@joshwent: I was off course talking about the people who's mistreating women online. I have no doubt that decent people undersands these pretty basic guidelines already.

#27 Edited by Flappy (2249 posts) -

The Year of Luigi just keeps on givin'!

Yikes.

Humans are humans, and you should treat them fairly.

What more needs to be said?

#28 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@christoffer: I doubt you will find these people here through.

#29 Posted by Christoffer (1822 posts) -
@darji said:

@christoffer: I doubt you will find these people here through.


Yes, that was supposed to be my point from the start, but I think I whiffed on my own messaging. O well.

#30 Posted by Humanity (9251 posts) -

Yikes.

Humans are humans, and you should treat them fairly.

Wh..what is this.. empathy?!

#31 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3734 posts) -

So I had a look at your profile and saw you uploaded this:

So I'd say proliferating rape jokes on a video game forum puts your in the kinda hypocritical camp.

Aside from the fact that is a child abuse reference, where did the OP say rape jokes were not okay? I think that's something that you're inferring on your own.

And yeah, "don't be mean to random women on the internet" is a pretty pointless message to be putting out there. Unless you're an asshole you won't be, and if you are, someone telling you otherwise isn't going to change anything.

#32 Edited by warpig87 (53 posts) -

Another white knight thread? I've got news for you, bud. This isn't going to get your dick sucked.

People are assholes. That's life. No one should get groped, that's absolutely sexual assault / battery. But what the fuck does that have to do with how girls get stereotyped as being bad at games?

#33 Posted by TheManWithNoPlan (5508 posts) -

So, basically don't be a dick to another human being.

#34 Posted by HawkeF16 (8 posts) -

@darji said:

here I help you.

Do not look at the gender and treat everyone the same. If there is someone nice treat them nice. if they are assholes tell them that.

This.

#35 Edited by AlexanderSheen (5007 posts) -

@hawkef16 said:

@darji said:

here I help you.

Do not look at the gender and treat everyone the same. If there is someone nice treat them nice. if they are assholes tell them that.

This.

Yep. That's the way I roll.

EDIT: On second thought, I would make a change to the "if they are assholes tell them that" part. Instead you should try to reason with them and explain to them why their attitude and/or actions are assholish.

#36 Posted by Random45 (1209 posts) -

@darji said:

here I help you.

Do not look at the gender and treat everyone the same. If there is someone nice treat them nice. if they are assholes tell them that.

Wow, this is actually a very good way to look at it.

The only issue is that double standards and other things like that might get in the way.

#37 Posted by Whitestripes09 (408 posts) -

I have zero problem with gamers who are girls. I have problems with girls who stream and have their video camera feed taking up more than a quarter of the screen with obvious cleavage showing...

Also, I'm not trying to generalize here or anything, but the girls who play CS:GO and the way guys react are some of the worst ever. Maybe it's just the CS community as a whole, but it's just full of obnoxious girls with the worst attitude. Guys of course start immediately panting at their feet and hand them the bomb to plant or let them defuse to earn extra points.

It's weird because that's the only game I play that I've ever rolled my eyes at when a girl comes on. Yet on the flip side girls who play mmos seem to be the most chill and fun to play with and the reactions from guys seem to be more tame.

That's just my personal experience with people's gender in games. I feel like the more we make a big deal about it, the worse it just gets for both genders. It has gotten a lot better though, I remember in the early 360 days with games like gears if there was a girl who had a mic she would be immediately insulted or harassed. Now days it just seems to be those awkward cringe moments with guys trying to be the "knight in shining armor".

#38 Posted by ryanwhom (290 posts) -

what a condescending post lol good luck with life OP

#39 Posted by alwaysbebombing (1587 posts) -

How about we just not be dicks to anyone? No matter who they are.

#40 Edited by 8Bit_Archer (452 posts) -

How about we just not be dicks to anyone? No matter who they are.

AGREED!