The end of the debate: Evolution is real - (link)

Found this on Google News.

http://www.leaderpost.com/Technology/debate+Evolution+real/1435535/story.html

Hopefully it ends this deadly battle once and for all.

"Want to toss out Galileo's core beliefs? You have to throw out all modern astronomy."

"To drop evolution from biology would be just as central."

Was there even a debate to begin with?

"Was there even a debate to begin with? "

anyone who doesn't believe in evolution should not be allowed to have kids

"anyone who doesn't believe in evolution should not be allowed to have kids "

"Fuck you "

"God said:

"Fuck you "

"

"God said:

"Fuck you "

"

"God said:

"Fuck you "

"

"Was there even a debate to begin with? "

If empirical data won't convince someone who believes the invisible-man theory, what makes anyone think that debate will? People who think that anything in this thread can convince a creationist that creationism is false lacks common sense.

That won't stop Texas from teaching the controversy. What's equally as depressing is that 16% of science teachers in America are creationists, and 2% of science teachers say they won't teach evolution in their class despite it being in the national curriculum.

Also sad and depressing, those who accept evolution are called Darwinists by some.

There need not be a conflict between believing in both evolution and a universe created by God

"If empirical data won't convince someone who believes the invisible-man theory, what makes anyone think that debate will? People who think that anything in this thread can convince a creationist that creationism is false lacks common sense."

"There need not be a conflict between believing in both evolution and a universe created by God"

"There need not be a conflict between believing in both evolution and a universe created by God"

Doesn't anyone realize that you can be a creationist AND believe in evolution. If you ask the pope himself he will confirm its existence.

Glad to see this thread is staying classy.

The concept of a conscious creator of existence isn't undermined by evolutionary theory, it is undermined by logic.

A simple thought experiment is all it takes to understand that the human notion of a conscious creator is impossible, here's how:

Existence exists (doesn't it?)

If something existed before 'existence' that caused 'existence', then something must have existed before 'existence'

That something either existed in existence or never existed at all. This is to say it is either not 'God' (as humans understand it) or did not exist. It cannot be both.

You can argue for a different theory of God. One that brought life to this planet, but that thing would not be the creator of all things, it would be a bringer of life, not a creator of life. Therefore, it is not a God in the Western traditional sense at all.

As for evolution, if you question it, think about its implications first. There's nothing wrong with a healthy dose of doubt, but try to conceptualize what an evolutionist is saying before you dismiss it.

Does life have the potential to improve with each passing generation? Yes, life expectancies overall are on the rise.

Does an adult human start out as an adult human? No, it starts out as a zygote, then it fertilizes an egg (or is fertilized by an egg if you're a bio-feminist), then it becomes a foetus, then it becomes a baby, then it becomes a toddler, then it becomes a child, then it becomes an adolescent, then it becomes an adult. Life is not stagnant, it is mobile, it is in a constant state of flux.

Are there other indicators that genetics and breeding change lifeforms over time? Yes. Viruses and bacteria become resistant to drugs.
The fact that a new flu shot is needed every year is an indicator of evolution. How? Once again, using logic this can be understood. No flu-shot advocate will try to pretend to tell you that the flu shot kills every single influenza organism, but it does kill the majority. However, a minority is either immune or resistant, the weak majority is killed and does not multiply, the immune/resistant minority survives and does multiply. And the flu virus' survival continues because of the fact that the strong multiply and the weak die off.


Having said all that, I know logic won't work on you, because it would have earlier if it did.

"There need not be a conflict between believing in both evolution and a universe created by God"

"Dragonseer said:

"There need not be a conflict between believing in both evolution and a universe created by God"

Well, one of them relies on scientific evidence and the other relies on blind faith so there is a conflict."

"

This guy says otherwise.

"

"It saddens me to think that all those fanatics yell the loudest and thats how every Christian is represented."

It's a change that happens over millions of years, not 'somehow'.

It's a change that happens via breeding.

The giraffe example this dude brings up is a fucking travesty.

You didn't choose to evolve 5 fingers and toes and a quality brain

Your forebearers survived and got better at survival because they learned from the mistakes of their predecessors. Those that didn't died off and were less able to breed.

And as to the argument for loss of strength, that actually is more of an index of evolution than creationism. We got better at surviving without needing brutal strength, with medical science and less war, physically weak people were able to survive and breed.

Also, big bang theory and evolutionary theory are not the same thing.

People who try to criticise the word 'theory' from evolutionary theory need to look into the work of Karl Popper.

"ez123 said:

"Dragonseer said:

"There need not be a conflict between believing in both evolution and a universe created by God"

Well, one of them relies on scientific evidence and the other relies on blind faith so there is a conflict."

No thats narrow minded on the opposite end of the spectrum (normally we attribute narrow-mindedness the Christians and mostly rightfully so). The Catholic Church actually believes in evolution. God created the world, then evolution took off from there. You could say that God used evolution to get the world to its present state. Everyone with half a brain knows the world wasn't really created in seven days because the Bible is just good moral stories to follow. It saddens me to think that all those fanatics yell the loudest and thats how every Christian is represented."

"The concept of a conscious creator of existence isn't undermined by evolutionary theory, it is undermined by logic.A simple thought experiment is all it takes to understand that the human notion of a conscious creator is impossible, here's how:Existence exists (doesn't it?)If something existed before 'existence' that caused 'existence', then something must have existed before 'existence'That something either existed in existence or never existed at all. This is to say it is either not 'God' (as humans understand it) or did not exist. It cannot be both.You can argue for a different theory of God. One that brought life to this planet, but that thing would not be the creator of all things, it would be a bringer of life, not a creator of life. Therefore, it is not a God in the Western traditional sense at all.As for evolution, if you question it, think about its implications first. There's nothing wrong with a healthy dose of doubt, but try to conceptualize what an evolutionist is saying before you dismiss it.Does life have the potential to improve with each passing generation? Yes, life expectancies overall are on the rise.Does an adult human start out as an adult human? No, it starts out as a zygote, then it fertilizes an egg (or is fertilized by an egg if you're a bio-feminist), then it becomes a foetus, then it becomes a baby, then it becomes a toddler, then it becomes a child, then it becomes an adolescent, then it becomes an adult. Life is not stagnant, it is mobile, it is in a constant state of flux.Are there other indicators that genetics and breeding change lifeforms over time? Yes. Viruses and bacteria become resistant to drugs.The fact that a new flu shot is needed every year is an indicator of evolution. How? Once again, using logic this can be understood. No flu-shot advocate will try to pretend to tell you that the flu shot kills every single influenza organism, but it does kill the majority. However, a minority is either immune or resistant, the weak majority is killed and does not multiply, the immune/resistant minority survives and does multiply. And the flu virus' survival continues because of the fact that the strong multiply and the weak die off.Having said all that, I know logic won't work on you, because it would have earlier if it did."

"

  

This guy says otherwise.

"

Existence exists only in spacetime. To try and discuss aspects of reality outside of spacetime and their impact on spacetime is impossible.

Existence limited by itself is what you describe. Existence exists in space and time, and until we find things outside space and time; attempting to discuss the empirical features of things outside space and time are exercises in futility.

Also, why is God not limited by our reality, yet he has one of our genders? That aspect of 'God' theory will never resonate with me.

I believe in creationism; some of you believe in evolution.

"Cloneslayer said:

"ez123 said:

"Dragonseer said:

"There need not be a conflict between believing in both evolution and a universe created by God"

Well, one of them relies on scientific evidence and the other relies on blind faith so there is a conflict."

No thats narrow minded on the opposite end of the spectrum (normally we attribute narrow-mindedness the Christians and mostly rightfully so). The Catholic Church actually believes in evolution. God created the world, then evolution took off from there. You could say that God used evolution to get the world to its present state. Everyone with half a brain knows the world wasn't really created in seven days because the Bible is just good moral stories to follow. It saddens me to think that all those fanatics yell the loudest and thats how every Christian is represented."

What's narrow minded? If you believe in God, you are doing so without any evidence.  The rest of that post doesn't register with me."

"Existence exists only in spacetime. To try and discuss aspects of reality outside of spacetime and their impact on spacetime is impossible.Existence limited by itself is what you describe. Existence exists in space and time, and until we find things outside space and time; attempting to discuss the empirical features of things outside space and time are exercises in futility."

Also, why is God not limited by our reality, yet he has one of our genders? That aspect of 'God' theory will never resonate with me."

LiquidPrince, I have a question for you, but it's in another thread. Please respond to my question there. If you feel like it, that is.

"ez123 said:

"Cloneslayer said:

"ez123 said:

"Dragonseer said:

"There need not be a conflict between believing in both evolution and a universe created by God"

Well, one of them relies on scientific evidence and the other relies on blind faith so there is a conflict."

No thats narrow minded on the opposite end of the spectrum (normally we attribute narrow-mindedness the Christians and mostly rightfully so). The Catholic Church actually believes in evolution. God created the world, then evolution took off from there. You could say that God used evolution to get the world to its present state. Everyone with half a brain knows the world wasn't really created in seven days because the Bible is just good moral stories to follow. It saddens me to think that all those fanatics yell the loudest and thats how every Christian is represented."

What's narrow minded? If you believe in God, you are doing so without any evidence.  The rest of that post doesn't register with me."

Its narrow minded to say there is a conflict between the two just because on has evidence and the other doesn't. That fact alone doesn't mean they can't coexist. Its like saying that trees and oxygen can coexist, back when people didn't know oxygen existed. And I agree that believing in God is doing so without evidence."

As long a Christians walk the earth, the debate will never end.

"As long a Christians walk the earth, the debate will never end."

You have got to be kidding me.

"

  

This guy says otherwise.

"

How can you state that evidence for God does not exist?  Evidence for God is at least as multitudinous as is that for Hannibal or Ramses II.  The only reasons for disbelief in God are philosophical, the same as the reasons for the belief.  Hell, if you want to assign the same value to evidence for the existence of divinity as to evidence used in a civil case, then it's worth recognizing the numerous witnesses to divinity. 

So, although it can be said:

Cloneslayer said:

I agree that believing in God is doing so without evidence.

"How can you state that evidence for God does not exist?  Evidence for God is at least as multitudinous as is that for Hannibal or Ramses II.  The only reasons for disbelief in God are philosophical, the same as the reasons for the belief.  Hell, if you want to assign the same value to evidence for the existence of divinity as to evidence used in a civil case, then it's worth recognizing the numerous witnesses to divinity. 

So, although it can be said:

Cloneslayer said:

I agree that believing in God is doing so without evidence.

You must therefore believe (logically) that disbelieving in God is also done without evidence.With regard to my own beliefs, I trust in logical reasoning, not "evidence".  I am able to reason further down the path of disbelief than belief before coming to a glaring hole."

I've never seen the real conflict between the two. God created evolution. Voila.

"I've never seen the real conflict between the two. God created evolution. Voila."

Does an adult human start out as an adult human? No, it starts out as a zygote, then it fertilizes an egg (or is fertilized by an egg if you're a bio-feminist)...

"I believe in creationism; some of you believe in evolution.

Why the crap do you care?

"

"Was there even a debate to begin with? "

That's what religion does... LOL

"

  

This guy says otherwise.

"

First: Posting in a religious thread.

Second: I read the article. It was mostly opinions from science dudes. There was very little science in the article, and that was a part about the yeast experiment. It showed that yeast could become more resistant to anit-botics. They changed the yeast. But it was still clearly yeast, there wasn't really much doubt weather a species can change within itself from the Christians. They debate wether one species can change into another, which we still haven't proven. This Happy Birtthday Darwin article won't change anyones mind.

Third: I just finished Resident Evil 5, and it was awesome. I just changed the girls outfit to her clubbing one, and we're gonna go unlock some infinite ammo and upgrade this magnium. Remember? Video games.

"I've never seen the real conflict between the two. God created evolution. Voila."