#1801 Posted by Rotnac (783 posts) -

Well, that was a crazy final few laps to a crazy race

#1802 Posted by T_wester (245 posts) -

@mcgray90: There is one rule: You don't crash into each other.

#1803 Posted by Brendan (7843 posts) -

@gatehouse: Good on Eddie though for calling them out.

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#1804 Posted by RedSquirrelBrown (54 posts) -

The thing is now, if the same thing happens in reverse it will just be "Lewis getting his own back".

#1805 Posted by McGray90 (71 posts) -

@t_wester: The golden rule even, he's understandably annoyed, gave an interview and just stared into space for 5 seconds when he was asked a question.

#1806 Posted by samcroft90 (97 posts) -

Respect to Mercedes for not shying away from the incident, as unintentional as it may have been.

#1807 Posted by LutonHatter (333 posts) -
#1808 Edited by bushlemon (206 posts) -

@craymen_edge: I think there is a difference between supporting an athlete and supporting a multi-million dollar corporation

#1809 Posted by T_wester (245 posts) -

@mcgray90: yeah it was a bad result for Mercedes, no win and a driver retired not what they expected from a 1 2 pole.

#1810 Posted by Asmo917 (415 posts) -

Booing an athlete or performer who you don't like or who has made you angry seems like the tamest reaction. Compared to other behavior we've seen like throwing things at athletes or onto playing fields or assault (mostly away from the fields), it's a relatively harmless way to voice displeasure or disappointment. It's not always "justified" or "classy" or however you want to criticize it but it's relatively harmless, isn't it?

#1811 Posted by T_wester (245 posts) -

@asmo917: Yeah a football player was killed by fans throwing stones at him after the team lost yesterday, even though he scored in the match. So booing is relativity harmless but still low.

#1812 Posted by MachoFantastico (4789 posts) -

What was Rosberg thinking? No wonder Toto and Niki are furious. It hurt Mercedes more than anything and on the second lap of a 44 lap race is baffling to me. Not a whole lot Hamilton come do after that and I was surprised they kept him out so long. It's Rosberg's championship to lose now. Hamilton can be his own worst enemy most of the time but his post-race interview on BBC was acted with calm and intelligence, I think I'd have gone Hulk if my teammate did that to me. One things for sure, Rosberg will be looked down on as a champion.

Congrats to Daniel again, top quality driver who continues to overshadow Vettel. Red Bull deserved this one today, great seeing Williams there to... Bottas for a race win soon! :D

#1813 Posted by MachoFantastico (4789 posts) -

Even I was a little surprised by Toto Wolff's comments, he's usually pretty diplomatic so I'm guessing those higher up are pissed... wasn't the head of Daimlar there at the race? Not surprised by Niki though, he always speaks his mind that's why you can't help but love him.

#1814 Posted by Sessh (867 posts) -

One things for sure, Rosberg will be looked down on as a champion.

Oh, come on. Similar things have happened in so many championships already. Just look at Vettel and Webber from a few years back.

Did Rosberg make a mistake? Yes, obviously. Is it as big a deal as people (including Toto and Lauda) make it out to be? No. Mercedes has the championships in the bag already, and Hamilton isn't a Mr. Goody Two Shoes either, so whatever.

#1815 Posted by Dave_Tacitus (113 posts) -

I'm just wondering whether the Merc top brass's extremely pro Lewis (and, of course, anti Nico) comments after the race came from? PR, probably.

Lewis was brought into the team as the champion to take them to the next level and even with all the bad luck (and lapses of judgement) he's had this season he's still seen as the faster man. The 'proper racing man' if you will.

It doesn't hurt that he's English speaking and has a pop star girlfriend. Mercs will sell themselves in their homeland so having a German (although Nico is apparently not that popular in Germany if the BBC feed is to be believed) winning championships in their car is probably not as important as a guy with a wider international appeal.

Cynicism out of the way, I love Hamilton as a driver and hope he'll end his career with more than one championship. It's looking less and less likely for 2014 now.

I also like Nico but he's, to me, more of a Massa than a racer. A very fast guy and a great front runner but nowhere near as comfortable as the guys around him in close racing, even with such a great car.

I'm a new member here but have been a motor racing nut since the 80s and Mansell's soap opera towards the championship...

#1816 Posted by rethla (616 posts) -

The booing has nothing to do with todays events. Already at the friday practice Rosberg got boos from the crowds everytime he passed. I guess its more fuel for the fire though. And yeah there was mostly brits in the audience.

#1817 Posted by Brendan (7843 posts) -

@dave_tacitus: Why is Nick reported to not be popular in Germany? Does he have a bunch of offensive quotes or something? I'm watching my first season of F1 and he seems well out together and polite.

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#1818 Edited by MachoFantastico (4789 posts) -

Wow, Hamilton as claimed that Rosberg admitted he crashed into him on purpose to prove a point at the after race briefing, if that's the case then I wouldn't want to be around these two at Monza.

"We just had a meeting about it and he basically said he did it on purpose," said Hamilton. The 2008 world champion added: "He said he could have avoided it, but he didn't want to. He basically said, 'I did it to prove a point'." Hamilton said he was "gobsmacked" by Rosberg's admission. "He just came in there and said it was my fault," added Hamilton, who returned to the race after having his left rear tyre replaced only to quit with just a few laps remaining.

Makes you wonder about Monaco to, if what as been said is true.

#1819 Posted by skip124 (28 posts) -
#1820 Posted by MachoFantastico (4789 posts) -
#1821 Posted by skip124 (28 posts) -

@machofantastico: shite, didn't see your comment before mine basically saying the same thing oops

I dont know, what punishment would merc take tho, they wont exactly stop him racing, and a fine will probably be compared to pennies if they do that. it will be interesting to see if the FIA or stewarts will take anymore action now that this has came out, but one thing for sure the next few races will be heated between the pair of them

#1822 Edited by Dave_Tacitus (113 posts) -

@brendan: The BBC alluded to him 'not being a proper German'.

His ex-champ dad is Finnish, his mom is German and he was brought up in Monaco. EDIT - Apparently he also has a Finnish passport.

They also said (and this surprised me) that Vettel wasn't particularly popular in his homeland either, especially when compared to Schumaker, who's always had a working class hero status.

Before he moved to Williams, I'd always assumed Nico was Finnish like his dad.

#1823 Posted by T_wester (245 posts) -

@brendan: Well he is as much Finnish as German and lived most of his life in Monaco. So I can understand why the Germans might not have much affinity for him.

In other news Magnussen received a 20-second penalty for pushing Alonso of the road.

#1824 Posted by Dave_Tacitus (113 posts) -

Anyone else think that this whole season has been manufactured by Bernie in order to have the double points nonsense actually matter?

Was he seen hanging round the Merc garage in Hungary with a box of matches? Did he text Nico before today's race telling him that Lewis says Nico's dad has a crap moustache?

I wouldn't put it past him...

#1825 Edited by Pr1mus (3951 posts) -

@machofantastico: Well when asked about the monaco qualifying a couple days after the race he said a winner will do what it takes to win. I forget the exact wording he used but it's not exactly difficult to read between the lines.

Anyway, Rosberg is just a little shit. Has been since Monaco. He doesn't deserve to lead the championship, doesn't deserve this second place today. If the same incident had involved anyone other than Hamilton you bet the other team would have complained, the stewards would have reviewed the incident and very obviously Rosberg would have had a penalty. He's getting away with it because of course Mercedes aren't going to ask the stewards to penalize their own driver but it's extremely easy to understand the fan's reactions. The booing was totally deserved.

Hamilton is faster and way more deserving of the championship. Still being in the race after all the bad lucks and today's bullshit is proof enough.

#1826 Posted by Shindig (545 posts) -

I don't think double points matter when there's so little disparity between the car performance of both contenders. Unless it goes completely 2006 and Ricciardo steals it.

#1827 Posted by Dave_Tacitus (113 posts) -

Hamilton seemingly being under a gypsy curse negates the car equality though.

If, say, Hamilton wins the title in the last race it'll either give Bernie ideas (awarding double points for whichever races pay him the most) or the public outcry will be so great that it'll quickly be forgotten.

#1828 Posted by pcorb (127 posts) -

@dave_tacitus: Eh, Lauda has never exactly come across as someone who takes orders or advice from a PR department.

I think the problem here is a bit of a boy who cried wolf situation. Hamilton's fans have been so quick to find fault with Rosberg this season that now, when it does look like he, at the very least, made a seriously poor judgement call, it's easy to dismiss it as "British fans overreacting".

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#1829 Posted by Shindig (545 posts) -

Plus Rosberg's kept his nose clean all season and, when he's been required to race with Hamilton, they've both got a little pissy. Originally I saw the incident as just a poor decision. Rosberg going for a gap that simply wasn't there but, the way these cars are, its smart to just sacrifice your front wing for your opponent's rear tire.

Its not got the unbridled joy of Hamilton and Alonso at McLaren but its getting a little bit of Red Bull needle.

#1830 Posted by Dave_Tacitus (113 posts) -

@pcorb: Wolff strikes me, though, as extremely savvy and he's said the same thing as Lauda.

Merc have said that Lewis's remarks about Nico causing the incident on purpose are 'broadly accurate'. It'll be interesting to see how the next race pans out - I doubt Lewis will be up for returning the favour seeing as he's got points to make up and risks damaging his car but will this put a doubt in Nico's mind when faced with a 50-50 overtake on Lewis?

#1831 Posted by pcorb (127 posts) -

@dave_tacitus: They seem to agree that Nico said he could have avoided it and didn't want to, but Wolff seems to think that there's a difference between that and "deliberately crashing":

Wolff admitted Hamilton had accurately represented what Rosberg said, but added: "Nico felt he needed to hold his line. He needed to make a point and for Lewis it was clearly not him who needed to be aware of Nico."(Rosberg) didn't give in. He thought it was for Lewis to leave him space and that Lewis didn't leave him space."So they agreed to disagree in a very heated discussion among ourselves, but it wasn't deliberately crashing. That is nonsense."

I'm pretty sure that's just damage control to mitigate the potential penalty.

This is definitely going to change both drivers' approaches on the track, but it's hard to predict how.

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#1832 Posted by rethla (616 posts) -

Rosberg has always been the one who had to step back and save the situation in their duels this year. He made an excellent point about what would have happend every race if Nico didnt step back in all those super agressive moves from Hamilton.

#1833 Posted by Photomic (46 posts) -

I really don't get Eddie Jordan on the podium this race - let the crowd boo, they paid money to be at the event, they have the right to voice their opinion if they feel like someone has done something wrong. It's no different from fans booing in football (both American and 'soccer') when someone makes a rough tackle. They were reckless and should be shown that fans won't tolerate that kind of behaviour.

#1834 Edited by L44 (565 posts) -

The actual race was pretty good though.

#1835 Posted by burgavo (313 posts) -

I can kind of understand where Nico is coming from.

As @rethla said Nico has been the one who has consistently had to back down in merc duels this year, also I seem to remember in Hungary Hamilton pushed Nico off track in the last lap, this after Nico was told (earlier in the race) that his teamate would let him past (later on this turned out to be a mistake.... they said). I can understand wanting to get out in front to be able to dictate pitstrategies. And thinking he would deliberately be out to "take-out" Hamilton seems crazy to me, as I understand Toto's quote Nico said he wasn't about to back out of a fight.

Compare this with Fernando Alonso at Silverstone where I recall him saying about his fight with Vettel : Either he backs out or we both crash. Not saying the the situations were the same (the outcome certainly wasn't) but I can understand wanting to put your foot down and not letting your teammate walk all over you.

#1836 Posted by Sessh (867 posts) -

There is a difference between crushing into someone deliberately, and not wanting to give way to prove a point and fight for position.

As I said before, Rosberg made a mistake, but we've seen things like these many, many times before (not only between team mates, of course) and it's hardly ever been such a big deal. That's pretty much a normal racing incident. Shouldn't happen, but still does sometimes.

Also Alonso running into Vettel hasn't been investigated either, so I highly doubt Rosberg would actually have gotten a penalty and if he did, it would have been a rather small one.

Hamilton should finally stop whining and just concentrate on purely himself again. Wanting to retire for 30 or so laps isn't really a great show of character, by the way.

And yes, everyone has a right to voice their opinions, but booing and the like, are bad manners and overall just not cool. (Not here, not in Football, not anywhere.)

#1837 Posted by EuanDewar (5029 posts) -

I fucking love this sport so much.

#1838 Posted by Hunkulese (2786 posts) -

Anyone sticking to Hamilton's side clearly hasn't watched the entire season. Lewis has been reckless when racing Rosberg (and pretty much everyone else this year) and Rosberg has always backed off and Hamilton gets praised for his aggression. Hamilton has been racing like he's the chosen one this year and expects everyone to move out of his way to let him do his thing. Can't really blame Rosberg for getting frustrated when he's been the better driver this year.

#1839 Posted by XenoNick (1450 posts) -

If anything this makes the run-down till end of the season even more interesting. I think the incident could've been avoided. On the replays you can see Rosberg flick the wheel left and then right which causes him to go into Hamilton. It's only a small movement and the on board doesn't show it as well but it was something I noticed.

I also didn't think it was right for Eddie to call out the fans for booing. They paid to be there and if they are not happy with someone/ something they have a right to voice their opinion. It's done at practically every sporting event. Is it good sportsmanship? No but the fans are not there for that. They are there to be entertained. I was at the Silverstone GP back in 2010 and everytime Jenson Button went by a bunch of us cheered yet some guys booed. Did any of us say anything? No we just cheered louder. There just wasn't enough people down under the podium who wanted to cheer for him.

TL; DR Excited for Monza, avoidable incident, let people boo if they want.

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#1840 Posted by Dave_Tacitus (113 posts) -

All Hamilton did was take his line for the corner. You can't just stick your nose in and expect the driver in front to wave you through. This was a different situation than, say, Alonso and Webber at Eau Rouge last year.

It was a clumsy move from Nico - You can see just before the incident that he had a major correction with his steering - but a racing incident. If Lewis's tyre had been ok we'd have seen Nico pit with a broken wing and none of the after-race drama.

The booing was embarrassing.

#1841 Posted by burgavo (313 posts) -

This is going to be a great Alt+F1 debriefing!

#1842 Posted by MasterpinE (74 posts) -

Once again a great drive from Dan, this race was a bit of a reminder to me of just how good a chassis Newey builds for that team. Being able to run that low downforce to squeeze everything out of the powertrain and still keep those cars drivable is very impressive.

I would expect to see Mercedes come out with some strong words over the next few weeks. All that bravado about letting the two of them race starts to look a bit foolish when the two of them start putting easy points in jeopardy. It's still a very long shot, but this puts Dan 61 points behind Rosberg. With 50 points on the line at the end of the year and the strange nature of this sport throwing DNF's at just the wrong times it's too big a gamble for Wolff and Lauda to let this soap opera nonsense escalate further.

It feels so odd to be genuinely excited about the WDC race again considering the start of the year. 2014 really is shaping up to be a breath of fresh air and an excellent season.

#1843 Posted by Shindig (545 posts) -

They could race each other all year, though. A silver arrow's still going to be champion and they'll still wind up with the constructors title. As for Hamilton being reckless - yes. But it comes from the pressure of entering a title race as favourite and lead driver. He's a man that could've been a double world champion by now. He wants to be Jackie Stewart, not Damon Hill.

#1844 Posted by EwanSuttie (48 posts) -

I heard someone mention (on the BBC maybe? I forget) that Alonso was having very public chats with Red Bull this weekend. Whilst it could easily be a political "up your game or I'm out" display to Ferrari (who keep saying that he won't move), I keep thinking how difficult it would be for Red Bull if Alonso actually did move to them.

They have Vettel, the guy who has won the last four drivers championships but is currently constantly irked and out of form; Ricciardo, the young'un who has won three races this year and everyone is marvelling at; and now Alonso, the guy who is often regarded as the best driver in the pack, potentially knocking on their door. And only two seats to fill.

#1845 Posted by Shindig (545 posts) -

He'll carry a big reputation and a sack of money but he definitely needs a package under him. I reckon it might just be a bit of both. See what Ferrari have in mind for next season whilst trying to wedge your foot in the door for the only conceivable rivals to Mercedes.

#1846 Posted by rickyyo (147 posts) -

All I can say is the booing is deserved if you see the price of tickets. I am sure the flights to Belgium aren't that expensive. But man. Those ticket price to attend an F1 event would draw some ire if that was the result.

I'd say there was a bit of Games Press getting to play all the games for free thing going on. But, instead with the BBC commentators. Especially, the guy who did the interview. Eddie. The people who enjoy the sport seem to be much more well behaved compared to other European sports. Nico Rosberg at this point is probably equivalent to the Heel in a WWE event for British people.

#1847 Posted by Shindig (545 posts) -

With respect, Eddie Jordan's a former team principle who very much says what he feels. Also, at the time of the podium, it was a racing incident that didn't look to be malicious.

#1848 Edited by flasaltine (1682 posts) -

I really want Dan to win the Championship. He big smile and attitude made me an instant fan. He just seems like he is so appreciative to be driving these cars. Plus he is a great driver too.

#1849 Edited by Brendan (7843 posts) -

@hunkulese: Its easy to attribute negative qualities to a person if we don't think we like their attitude but I think you might be a little unfair to Hamilton here. I believe he's acting out of fear and survival as he fights against a heavily compromised car compared to Rosberg. He most likely thinks he needs to maximize any chance he gets where his car is functioning properly because Nico's kit has been much more reliable.

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