#1 Edited by Jeust (10680 posts) -

Recently an unfortunate Microsoft employee typed "deal with it" to a supposed friend of his when faced with the always on possibility of the new Xbox.

Well, now that I think about it, most of the software and hardware created seem to be created around "dealing with it".

Here are some examples:

- I bought a game and I can't connect to the servers to play it.

- Deal with it.

- Oh I have an SDTV and I want to play an Xbox 360 or PS3 game in it, but when I turn it on I can't read the text.

- Deal with it.

- I have an account in a website, that recently suffered an update, and I can't find the information I entered before, or I don't like the way it is displayed.

- Deal with it.

- I have an account in a website, recently the site suffered a redesign, and when I was using a feature that before didn't present any problem now it bugged on me and I lost my day's effort.

- Deal with it.

I'm not chirping away at any particular website, or game, or application but it is sad for a costumer that when a software or hardware he uses is changed his input apparently is meaningless. It is true that the application he uses wasn't made by him, but still he is the entended audience for the said application. I don't think the disgrunted nature of the consumer should be as readily ignored.

Maybe it is a particular instance of the "vote with your wallet mentality". If you don't like the product delivered by their creator(s) simply don't use it, and they'll notice. Otherwise they'll generally impose their view into their work without asking for second opinions from their consumers.

What do you think?

And please don't start flamewars. Let's take this more abstractly without name calling or brand calling.

#2 Posted by Animasta (14698 posts) -

did you mean to mistype philosophy that badly? is it some sort of ironic thing?

#3 Edited by Gaff (1773 posts) -

The long version:

While I don't doubt the inconvenience and or sincerity of someone's frustrations - and I do understand their plight -, people have to understand that it's impossible for anyone to consider everyone's very particular circumstances. Ideally, everything would work perfectly for everyone, but the amount of time and effort needed to ensure that would mean that the product would be delayed ad infinitum. It may sound harsh, but that's the unfortunate reality nowadays.

Oh, god dammit, I threw up a little in my mouth after typing this. I sound like some soulless corporate shill / helpdesk employee / community manager. Speaking of which, if anyone wants to hire me...

Short version:

Deal with it.

#4 Edited by Jeust (10680 posts) -

@animasta said:

did you mean to mistype philosophy that badly? is it some sort of ironic thing?

I mistyped it. It's fixed now. Thanks!

#5 Edited by Jeust (10680 posts) -

@gaff said:

The long version:

While I don't doubt the inconvenience and or sincerity of someone's frustrations - and I do understand their plight -, people have to understand that it's impossible for anyone to consider everyone's very particular circumstances. Ideally, everything would work perfectly for everyone, but the amount of time and effort needed to ensure that would mean that the product would be delayed ad infinitum. It may sound harsh, but that's the unfortunate reality nowadays.

Oh, god dammit, I threw up a little in my mouth after typing this. I sound like some soulless corporate shill / helpdesk employee / community manager. Speaking of which, if anyone wants to hire me...

Short version:

Deal with it.

I won't say to perfectly tailor an experience to the consumer, but taking in account their main inputs would be nice. By my experience that doesn't happen often.

#6 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3757 posts) -

@gaff:

I found it humorous that less than a couple of weeks after Adam Orth declared "sometimes the electricity goes out, I will not purchase a vacuum cleaner" Xbox live went down for a while, and if the console was "always online" it would have temporarily been reduced to a 400 dollar paperweight.

There's no "it's impossible for anyone to consider everyone's very particular circumstances" with that situation. There's only giving your honest customer's a worse experience, in a potentially misguided attempt to prevent software piracy.

#7 Posted by mercutio123 (471 posts) -

I can't honestly see them actually going through with this. It's too crazy right now

#8 Posted by Gaff (1773 posts) -

@jeust said:

@gaff said:

The long version:

While I don't doubt the inconvenience and or sincerity of someone's frustrations - and I do understand their plight -, people have to understand that it's impossible for anyone to consider everyone's very particular circumstances. Ideally, everything would work perfectly for everyone, but the amount of time and effort needed to ensure that would mean that the product would be delayed ad infinitum. It may sound harsh, but that's the unfortunate reality nowadays.

Oh, god dammit, I threw up a little in my mouth after typing this. I sound like some soulless corporate shill / helpdesk employee / community manager. Speaking of which, if anyone wants to hire me...

Short version:

Deal with it.

I won't say to perfectly tailor an experience to the consumer, but taking in account their main inputs would be nice. By my experience that doesn't happen often.

I knew this terrible sponge that I call my memory would come in handy someday...

  • Diablo 3's launch day server issues have been largely solved. Whether the load has died down or people have simply stopped playing because of "a lack of replayability" (HEY-O! *badum-tish*), the game connects to the Battle.net servers without any problems nowadays.
  • Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts' resolution problems have since been fixed.
  • Giant Bomb is slowly working on bringing back old features (forums on the frontpage for example!). Now that Comicvine's redesign has gone live, time and manpower can be put back on restoring "less essential" features and fixing less crippling bugs.

Fixing the gripes / implementing suggestions / appeasing the unwashed masses will come eventually, it's just that people don't have the patience when they're grabbing their pitchforks and torches. It just takes a while. That everyone seems to forget when things get fixed hopefully says less about the spiteful nature of man, and more about how inconsequential their peeves were.

#9 Posted by Gaff (1773 posts) -

@spaceinsomniac: You mean the outage on April 13th?

http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/13/4221398/xbox-live-outage-knocks-gamers-offline-netflix-other-apps-useless

Putting myself in the mind of a Microsoft rep: outages and such are unfortunately possibilities we cannot account for. Accidents, for example someone accidentally cutting off the internet for an entire country, will happen and are out of our control.

(And they have a point: shit does happen)

Personally, locking down so many "basic" features behind Xbox Live Gold is not something incidental, but a structural problem with Xbox Live Gold for which Microsoft can and should be held accountable for. But I think that's a discussion for another time.

#10 Posted by Slaegar (716 posts) -

I feel like people are too eager to come to the rescue when a company screws up.

As a consumer you should be able to expect a product is up to certain standards when you purchase it. If its below those standards you shouldn't have to "deal with it". That's a shitty attitude that big corporations LOVE when you have. Its similar to fan boys jumping in to save a console for being a piece of shit. Don't just buy Nvidia's graphics cards because you think they are cool or something.

A lot of this can be avoided by waiting a day or two for stuff like games.

I'm not happy when I game I like has a bad sequel. I'll probably not buy the game and that's my way of usually dealing with it, but I complain about games being crappy because I want them to be better, not because I want to complain.

#11 Posted by madman356647 (275 posts) -
@slaegar said:

I feel like people are too eager to come to the rescue when a company screws up.

As a consumer you should be able to expect a product is up to certain standards when you purchase it. If its below those standards you shouldn't have to "deal with it". That's a shitty attitude that big corporations LOVE when you have. Its similar to fan boys jumping in to save a console for being a piece of shit. Don't just buy Nvidia's graphics cards because you think they are cool or something.

A lot of this can be avoided by waiting a day or two for stuff like games.

I'm not happy when I game I like has a bad sequel. I'll probably not buy the game and that's my way of usually dealing with it, but I complain about games being crappy because I want them to be better, not because I want to complain.

I'm somewhat in the same boat. And, I agree with your third point, with a massive asterisk (*).

There's complaining, then there's going too far. To bring up recent examples: Error 37, ME3 ending, SimCity, etc. There are many folks who definitely complained over these things, then there were folks review bombing the game, demanding everything short of the CEO of the company coming to their house with a suitcase of money, or they go crazy and send all kinds of threats and jump on every piece of negative news as if it's their way of twisting the knife. My concern is that of maturity in complaining. When I go to a restaurant and the food sucks, I simply complain politely. If I don't get the "favored response", it doesn't mean I get to go on a tirade, hitting every review site I can find, and acting as if said restaurant made it their goal to ruin my day. Instead, I just don't go. If my friends ask why, I CALMLY (keyword here) tell them I didn't like the last experience.

Sure, there's a lot of fanboys (I won't shy away that I fanboy out on some items). The problem itself is multifaceted. Each company is going to do what they want (whether it's use DRM, or limit the hardware they rollout). That's their call. As consumers, we get to choose though. If we don't want something (Example: Assuming the new XBOX requires always online), then just don't buy it. No setting a Microsoft store on fire, no flaming bags of turd on Bill Gates's doorstep, no flamefests online. No video game company (last I checked) is putting a gun to my head and forcing me to buy a console.

Note: the remaining of this is in my opinion. Different Strokes and all that:

Ultimately, it's easy to "ignore consumers" when consumers don't behave in a manner that garners respect. I've worked for a few companies. I've dealt with my deal of shitheads, and I've dealt with my share of rational and understanding people. Guess which ones I'm inclined to listen to, and go above and beyond for? If we want companies to get the message, we need to learn to tell that message to them in a way that isn't just flipping them the bird and throwing tantrums online. Yes, does it suck when we don't get our way, sure. But it's video games. We will always be ready to break out the torches and pitchforks, but when will we learn to slow our roll, huh? Maybe the best way is to....I dunno, don't buy it? Don't play it? Just shrug and go back to whatever we were doing?

Note, I don't care about being called a "company white knight" here. Know why? I just don't care. I've got my share of games, and I certainly don't have an axe to grind since it's out of my control (I REALLY don't want to run a damn company). I'll research whatever game I buy so I go into it knowing any and all risks (such as server being shutdown, outage potentials, etc). The only person who I have to blame for a bad financial/bad game call is me. I read many reviews, look up gameplay footage, ask friends whose opinion I trust. Games aren't hard to find these days, especially with eShops and Steam.

Gah. End rant.

#12 Edited by MildMolasses (3221 posts) -

In some instances, you just can't win. All of the examples you mention are good (save for the HD tv one. Come on. We're in our eighth year of HD consoles. If you can afford an xbox, you can grab an HD tv. They aren't luxury items anymore) of where the producer/consumer line meets and the onus is on the producer to live up to their ends of the bargain, but I also believe that there is a grace period to be allotted to them to get the ship sailing smoothly. If an online game launches and in the first 24-36 hours there are server troubles, that is understandable. If they persist beyond that, like SimCity, then yeah, people have a right to be pissed.

I think the issue with the consumer side is that we all expect instant gratification, and when we don't get it, we get pissed, even if we could have done something to alleviate the issue. Think of how pissed off people were when Aliens: Colonial Marines came out and it turned out to be bad. People were getting irate at Gearbox (why not? no one wants to play bad games), but worse they were getting mad at reviewers for not breaking the embargo and letting everyone know that this game was bad. Apparently those people could not wait a couple of hours on the day of release to check out what the general impressions of the game were and had to either pre-order it or buy it as soon as a store opened. If they had displayed some semblance of patience, they would have known that maybe it wasn't that great and they shouldn't buy it, or at least just rent it. Those people can deal with it.

#13 Posted by Ubersmake (754 posts) -

The problem with "deal with it" is that you have to actually say it. There's no way to please everyone. That's fine. If you've done no harm and broken no promises, you can give an explanation, and whether it makes sense or not, that's the most anyone can reasonably expect. "Deal with it" is the "Fuck you, you don't matter" at the end of a conversation. This is entirely optional, and the only purpose it serves is to antagonize. For a business, "deal with it" isn't ignoring the consumer, it's rejecting the consumer.

#14 Edited by mlarrabee (2972 posts) -

DUDE! This thread made me scroll down and see that the forums are on the front page again!

Hooray!

#15 Posted by SSully (4199 posts) -

A lot of the things you listed are simply change for the better, and dealing with it is all people can and should do about it. Yeah it sucked getting a PS3 and seeing how shitty the text looked on it, but when I finally got an HDTV, that shit looked fantastic. I will never go back to an SDTV because it looks like garbage. Does it suck for people who couldn't afford HDTV's at first? Yeah. But the progress made is worth it.

#16 Edited by Jeust (10680 posts) -

@gaff said:

@jeust said:

@gaff said:

The long version:

While I don't doubt the inconvenience and or sincerity of someone's frustrations - and I do understand their plight -, people have to understand that it's impossible for anyone to consider everyone's very particular circumstances. Ideally, everything would work perfectly for everyone, but the amount of time and effort needed to ensure that would mean that the product would be delayed ad infinitum. It may sound harsh, but that's the unfortunate reality nowadays.

Oh, god dammit, I threw up a little in my mouth after typing this. I sound like some soulless corporate shill / helpdesk employee / community manager. Speaking of which, if anyone wants to hire me...

Short version:

Deal with it.

I won't say to perfectly tailor an experience to the consumer, but taking in account their main inputs would be nice. By my experience that doesn't happen often.

I knew this terrible sponge that I call my memory would come in handy someday...

  • Diablo 3's launch day server issues have been largely solved. Whether the load has died down or people have simply stopped playing because of "a lack of replayability" (HEY-O! *badum-tish*), the game connects to the Battle.net servers without any problems nowadays.
  • Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts' resolution problems have since been fixed.
  • Giant Bomb is slowly working on bringing back old features (forums on the frontpage for example!). Now that Comicvine's redesign has gone live, time and manpower can be put back on restoring "less essential" features and fixing less crippling bugs.

Fixing the gripes / implementing suggestions / appeasing the unwashed masses will come eventually, it's just that people don't have the patience when they're grabbing their pitchforks and torches. It just takes a while. That everyone seems to forget when things get fixed hopefully says less about the spiteful nature of man, and more about how inconsequential their peeves were.

I think that's more the idea that developers want to pass through to their consumers. i think things can get better with feedback from both the developers to the consumers and the consumers to the developers in engeneering a new software. I say this because many of the software systems in games, websites, whatever are presented as it is, and are tailored to be more consumer friendly afterwards. I think things would go a lot smoother if there was comunication between the developers and the consumers. There are games that are developed by both a number of developers and a comunity, like Mount & Blade, and if I'm not mistaken Zomboid.

#17 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

You had me until you started complaining about text size because you have an SDTV. If you can afford to buy game consoles and games, you can afford a HDTV. You can't even buy a standard definition TV anymore and an average size HDTV is super cheap.

#18 Edited by Jeust (10680 posts) -

@mcghee said:

You had me until you started complaining about text size because you have an SDTV. If you can afford to buy game consoles and games, you can afford a HDTV. You can't even buy a standard definition TV anymore and an average size HDTV is super cheap.

I know houses that don't have HDTVs.

#19 Edited by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

I'll "deal with it" by not purchasing a new console.

Man, I'm good.

#20 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

@jeust said:

@mcghee said:

You had me until you started complaining about text size because you have an SDTV. If you can afford to buy game consoles and games, you can afford a HDTV. You can't even buy a standard definition TV anymore and an average size HDTV is super cheap.

I know houses that don't have HDTVs.

So?

#21 Edited by Jeust (10680 posts) -

@mcghee said:

@jeust said:

@mcghee said:

You had me until you started complaining about text size because you have an SDTV. If you can afford to buy game consoles and games, you can afford a HDTV. You can't even buy a standard definition TV anymore and an average size HDTV is super cheap.

I know houses that don't have HDTVs.

So?

If you add getting a console, games and a HDTV, it won't be cheap.

#22 Posted by tourgen (4518 posts) -

well some if it is just having the skills to be an informed consumer. Just don't blindly buy something without knowing what you are signing up for. Getting a game console that advertises HD games? Yeah, maybe the text is going to be bad on a SDTV. Sorry, that's life.

So yeah, reading EULAs, asking around, doing some research. If that's too much to handle then expect to get burned on occasion.

I know I will never buy a game console with an always online requirement. Not out of principal, but because I know the hassle and frustration it will cause me given my particular circumstances.

Just like every other decision you make with your money, take the time to go in with your eyes open. Maybe exercise a little impulse control too.

#23 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

Deal with it is a douchy thing to say, whether it's a representative of a company or any individual.

#24 Edited by AiurFlux (902 posts) -

Yup. Just deal with it. While this past weekend Microsoft's servers went apeshit and didn't work and now the CEO of Ubisoft, dumb Frenchman that he is, is prattling on about always online being a great thing because everybody is always online anyway and they can in no way, shape, or form use their devices offline. Oh... wait. They can.

I know I'll vote with my wallet, but I've also accepted that the vast majority of people are moronic sheep that follow the rest of the herd. So while they might lose my business for treating their customers like shit that's only one sale out of millions upon millions. Nothing will change, if anything it will only get worse. If things go always online I encourage and implore people to hack, mod, and pirate the fuck out of it. Something that I thought I'd never say.

And people that say "Deal with it" in passing should be hit in the face with a brick. In passing.

#25 Edited by Hailinel (24977 posts) -

There are some things in life that people do just have to deal with, but telling people "Deal with it" as if there's no choice or room for debate is crass, unwelcome, and does nothing but build animosity.

#26 Posted by Example1013 (4834 posts) -

@jeust said:

@mcghee said:

@jeust said:

@mcghee said:

You had me until you started complaining about text size because you have an SDTV. If you can afford to buy game consoles and games, you can afford a HDTV. You can't even buy a standard definition TV anymore and an average size HDTV is super cheap.

I know houses that don't have HDTVs.

So?

If you add getting a console, games and a HDTV, it won't be cheap.

Act like this is a new problem, I had trouble reading some of the text in SOCOM combined assault. It's how much they have to spend to fix it vs. how much they lose by not fixing it. Simple math, if the former is bigger than the latter, tough luck, it's not getting fixed, deal with it.

#27 Edited by MetalGearSunny (6993 posts) -

If my cell phone service is shit, I can go with a competing service next time around.

Deal with it.

#28 Edited by Jeust (10680 posts) -

@example1013 said:

@jeust said:

@mcghee said:

@jeust said:

@mcghee said:

You had me until you started complaining about text size because you have an SDTV. If you can afford to buy game consoles and games, you can afford a HDTV. You can't even buy a standard definition TV anymore and an average size HDTV is super cheap.

I know houses that don't have HDTVs.

So?

If you add getting a console, games and a HDTV, it won't be cheap.

Act like this is a new problem, I had trouble reading some of the text in SOCOM combined assault. It's how much they have to spend to fix it vs. how much they lose by not fixing it. Simple math, if the former is bigger than the latter, tough luck, it's not getting fixed, deal with it.

Yeah, but it is pretty cool to read the cover and backcover of a game, buy it, reach home, and need magnifying glasses to read the text on the screen.

#29 Posted by TheManWithNoPlan (5595 posts) -

Most things in life tell you to Deal with it. In the end, a person's character is shown by how you Deal with it.

#30 Edited by troll93 (388 posts) -

@jeust said:

@example1013 said:

@jeust said:

@mcghee said:

@jeust said:

@mcghee said:

You had me until you started complaining about text size because you have an SDTV. If you can afford to buy game consoles and games, you can afford a HDTV. You can't even buy a standard definition TV anymore and an average size HDTV is super cheap.

I know houses that don't have HDTVs.

So?

If you add getting a console, games and a HDTV, it won't be cheap.

Act like this is a new problem, I had trouble reading some of the text in SOCOM combined assault. It's how much they have to spend to fix it vs. how much they lose by not fixing it. Simple math, if the former is bigger than the latter, tough luck, it's not getting fixed, deal with it.

Yeah, but it is pretty cool to read the cover and backcover of a game, buy it, reach home, and need magnifying glasses to read the text on the screen.

From the big box retailer up the road from me, I got my brother a 1080p 42 inch screen for $280, and there was a bunch of 30 inches for around $200. They are not great screens, but they are full HD. It is now part of the investment cost for gaming, realistically you need a HDTV.

#31 Posted by dudeglove (7908 posts) -

Quick question: was the MS "deal with it" guy speaking in his official capacity or something? Not exactly wise.

#32 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3757 posts) -

@dudeglove said:

Quick question: was the MS "deal with it" guy speaking in his official capacity or something? Not exactly wise.

You can read all about it here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=534951

Personal twitter account, under his real name, that he identified as belonging to a Microsoft Xbox employee.

Several tweets were directed toward his friend, but "#dealwithit" was directed toward anyone who disagreed with him.

#33 Edited by dudeglove (7908 posts) -

@dudeglove said:

Quick question: was the MS "deal with it" guy speaking in his official capacity or something? Not exactly wise.

You can read all about it here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=534951

Personal twitter account, under his real name, that he identified as belonging to a Microsoft Xbox employee.

Several tweets were directed toward his friend, but "#dealwithit" was directed toward anyone who disagreed with him.

Oh it's that guy. I thought this was another dude creating another PR disaster.