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#1 Posted by egg (1450 posts) -

..matters, namely the subject of whether or not hell actually exists!

  • Can you present any arguments as to why hell does or does not exist?
  • Is it possible to believe in god and not hell? (or vice-versa?) Or is it that you believe in one you have to in fact believe in the other as well?
  • If someone commits suicide, will that person go to hell?

No shenanigans please, this is a serious thread. And nobody with usernames like God or Jesus can post. That shit isn't funny!

#2 Edited by ffdthree (200 posts) -

It doesn't matter because there's no way to actually prove or disprove something like that.

EDIT: The lack of evidence is what makes me an agnostic atheist.

#3 Posted by jonnyboy (2920 posts) -

Sure hell exists, but most people tend to call it Liverpool.

#4 Posted by EuanDewar (4757 posts) -

PACKS OF STRAY DOGS THAT CONTROL MOST OF THE MAJOR CITIES

#5 Edited by TruthTellah (8532 posts) -

Of course Hell is real.

Hell is all around us. It is us.

Heaven is aspiring toward something greater than ourselves.

#6 Posted by Gamer_152 (14051 posts) -

I see no reason to believe that hell exists; there is no evidence, nor any logical argument that makes its existence seem even a slight possibility. However, as ffdthree said, it's impossible to definitively prove this, just like it would be impossible to definitely prove there isn't an invisible teapot hiding behind Neptune right now.

As for God, is it possible to believe in a God and not hell? Well, entirely. Is it possible to believe in the Gods of most religions and not believe in its hell? Absolutely, but you have a much harder time justifying it, because you need a reason to explain why certain portions of your holy text can be taken as gospel, and certain parts can be ignored. Under most religions I think this is just about impossible to do, but of course it's something people try to do all the time.

Moderator
#7 Posted by Xymox (2065 posts) -

These threads always go so nicely on the interwebs.

First point: Hell, also, is something which arises within the Self. It is a concept, like the concept of a sentient turd with wings flying through space and creating planets. The two concepts exist with close-to equal improbability. Just because some people believe in it does not make it so.

Second: No. Some Abrahamic faiths do not require or accept the view of Hell, which is, to me, nothing but a christian make-believe location for people who don't believe in their religion, used to control and manipulate and, as much of the christian faith, is designed to get and hold more followers which is something that's worked out nicely for them. Same reason why I think the devil was created - demonising rebellion and the act of questioning the status quo within the religion itself, something which, again, other Abrahamic religions think is a-OK (two jews, three opinions).

Third: No. Their experience becomes as that which was before they were born, one of non-experience. Some of the atoms may, eventually, awaken to a new Self somewhere else in space, somewhen else in time, giving the universe the chance to, once again, experience itself.

tldr; Starstuff contemplating the stars.

#8 Posted by ffdthree (200 posts) -

@Gamer_152 said:

I see no reason to believe that hell exists; there is no evidence, nor any logical argument that makes its existence seem even a slight possibility. However, as ffdthree said, it's impossible to definitively prove this, just like it would be impossible to definitely prove there isn't an invisible teapot hiding behind Neptune right now.

As for God, is it possible to believe in a God and not hell? Well, entirely. Is it possible to believe in the Gods of most religions and not believe in its hell? Absolutely, but you have a much harder time justifying it, because you need a reason to explain why certain portions of your holy text can be taken as gospel, and certain parts can be ignored. Under most religions I think this is just about impossible to do, but of course it's something people try to do all the time.

To be completely honest, you said everything I was thinking (as you probably would have guessed). I just didn't wanna type it all out at 5 in the morning. Sooo, THIS.

#9 Posted by Doctorchimp (4069 posts) -

No Hell.

Just shitty people in this world. If you want an alright life, make the best of it and do what you want. There's no magical event that will level everything out later on, do what you can now.

#10 Posted by dungbootle (2457 posts) -

No afterlife. We are not spiritually-elevated beings just because our brains are more complex than other species'. We're made of the same stuff as everything else, our miracle of life is no different than an amoeba's.

#11 Posted by Mcfart (1548 posts) -

I love how religious people think they're embracing something positive.

According to the New Testiment, gay people are bad. So lets say someone is born gay. He will likely either undergo abuse from his religious peers, or have to hide his homosexuality for his entire life. So with that disadvantage in mind, he'll likely undergo more bullying and hardships. Then, to escape it, he commits suicide. Woops, straight from 1 hell to eternal damnation.

#12 Posted by TobbRobb (4579 posts) -

This reminds me of the guy who tried to convince me that I was afraid of Hell and just lying about not believing in it.

Good stuff.

#13 Edited by egg (1450 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

Of course Hell is real.

Hell is all around us. It is us.

Heaven is aspiring toward something greater than ourselves.

If you're not gonna take this seriously then please leave the thread. :p

#14 Posted by Fuzzypanther (12 posts) -

If your truly worried read 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins. That will probably answer your questions better we could.

#15 Posted by jayjonesjunior (1086 posts) -

gaming is a billion dollar industry, do you think that discussing the existence of an invisible man living on the clouds is more important than real money, effort and people involved in this industry?

#16 Posted by egg (1450 posts) -

@jayjonesjunior said:

gaming is a billion dollar industry, do you think that discussing the existence of an invisible man living on the clouds is more important than real money, effort and people involved in this industry?

lol you measure importance in dollars

where even a single one of us goes for eternity after death is obviously more important than a bunch of people shuffling money back and forth

You seem to think god doesn't exist, care to back up your belief? I would love to be convinced that there is no hell.

#17 Posted by Brodehouse (9585 posts) -

Burning chasms of fire only exist in Centralia.

All supernatural things are imaginary.

#18 Posted by Fuzzypanther (12 posts) -

You seem to be challenging us to prove there is no hell. That's a fallacy. The onus isn't on us to prove its not there, but on those that believe to prove it is.

#19 Edited by egg (1450 posts) -

@Fuzzypanther said:

If your truly worried read 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins. That will probably answer your questions better we could.

It says the book is both about why god doesn't exist and why religion is bad. I know religion is definitely bad, but that's a totally different subject. What if we just have an evil, tyrannical god? Or maybe god is good and meant well, but religion twisted everything? "Religion led to wars, therefore God doesn't exist" doesn't strike me as an intelligible argument. That's like saying hell doesn't exist because it would suck if it did exist. Should I still get this book?

#20 Edited by TruthTellah (8532 posts) -

@egg said:

@TruthTellah said:

Of course Hell is real.

Hell is all around us. It is us.

Heaven is aspiring toward something greater than ourselves.

If you're not gonna take this seriously then please leave the thread. :p

heh. I don't know if you're joking, but I'm serious. Hell is in the absence that gnaws at joy, pushes us into isolation, and fosters poverty and pain. I can think of no greater Hell than the slow burning Hell that is in and around people's lives. Even death itself is simply the absence of life. If Hell is an eternal place of pain, perhaps the lack of life, both now and in death, is the one, true enduring Hell.

Hell is in the absence, and whether it sounds hokey or not, that's the reality.

#21 Posted by EVO (3864 posts) -

I'd argue that games matter far more than than whether a fictional place exists or not.

#22 Posted by Fuzzypanther (12 posts) -

@egg: That's not the argument he poses. To answer any of your questions about if God is good, if Hell is bad or even what is Sin. You first have to answer do any of these things exist. The 'God Delusion' takes a scientific view to answer that.

#23 Posted by geirr (2476 posts) -

Nope.

#24 Edited by niko555 (118 posts) -

@egg said:

@jayjonesjunior said:

gaming is a billion dollar industry, do you think that discussing the existence of an invisible man living on the clouds is more important than real money, effort and people involved in this industry?

lol you measure importance in dollars

where even a single one of us goes for eternity after death is obviously more important than a bunch of people shuffling money back and forth

You seem to think god doesn't exist, care to back up your belief? I would love to be convinced that there is no hell.

How in the first place did you get convinced there is hell?

Did somebody show you hell?

Or did they open a book and say" it says right here that hell exist"

#25 Posted by Video_Game_King (35993 posts) -

Depends on what you mean by "exist". Denying something's existence merely reaffirms it, mainly because if it truly didn't exist, you wouldn't know that it doesn't exist. But I imagine you mean to ask "is Hell real", in which case: no, it isn't.

#26 Posted by LikeaSsur (1495 posts) -

@ffdthree said:

EDIT: The lack of evidence is what makes me an agnostic atheist.

You deny any possibility of a higher power (atheism), but also believe that said higher power may or may not exist and it's impossible to prove either way (agnostic)? Aren't you contradicting yourself?

#27 Posted by Animasta (14648 posts) -

no way to prove one way or the other so meh.

#28 Posted by BRNK (306 posts) -

Hey guys, can we debate whether or not Hyrule exists next?

#29 Posted by mlarrabee (2885 posts) -

Let's think about this:

If Hell is only a fictitious tool of Religion, keeping adherents in check and bringing in nonbelievers, then it is terrorism.

If Hell is a fictitious thought of Religion, a piece of linked logic honestly believed, then it is a byproduct of a raving mind.

If Hell is a reality, these temporary addictions are leading us happily into oblivion.

One cannot weight the existence of Hell before weighing the existence of God. If there is no God, there is no Hell. If there is a God, find Him and learn Him, and you'll again have the answer.

#30 Posted by ffdthree (200 posts) -

@LikeaSsur said:

@ffdthree said:

EDIT: The lack of evidence is what makes me an agnostic atheist.

You deny any possibility of a higher power (atheism), but also believe that said higher power may or may not exist and it's impossible to prove either way (agnostic)? Aren't you contradicting yourself?

Not at all. The terms aren't mutually exclusive. Think about it like this: theism deals with the belief itself, while gnosticism deals with the knowledge.

Atheism is NOT a denial of any possibility, but simply lacking in belief.

Agnostic Atheism is basically not claiming to KNOW one way or another, but lacking a personal belief that there probably is any god

Agnostic Theism is not claiming to know, but believing there is a higher power

Gnostic theism/atheism is belief one way or the other, but claiming full certainty and knowledge of the existence or nonexistence.

I personally think that Gnosticism one way or the other is impossible when dealing with such a claim.

#31 Posted by IBurningStar (2160 posts) -

Yes, there is a Hell.

There. Thread over. Now we can all get back to discussing video games and other things that actually matter.

#32 Posted by JasonR86 (9608 posts) -

Issues of faith can neither be proven or disproved.

#33 Posted by LikeaSsur (1495 posts) -
@ffdthree And now I know, and knowing is half the battle. (G.I. JOOOOOOOE)
#34 Posted by 49th (2691 posts) -

If hell does exist then God is a dick. Just because I don't believe in him I am going to be tortured for eternity. Oh fucking well, I guess I will get used to it. In conclusion, hell doesn't exist.

Online
#35 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

I'm not sure if Hell exists, but I find the unknowing to be so creepy. If you're remotely skeptical about the afterlife-- and it does in fact exist, you go to Hell for wanting proof of God. I don't think anyone should be punished for skepticism or outright disbelief. I don't really talk to people about this stuff, it tends to frustrate my family (who are Christians); they think it's stupid of me to have these feelings.

#36 Posted by bushpusherr (762 posts) -

Don't believe in anything supernatural. So no. If it does, than "God's" idea of justice is pretty fucked up.

#37 Posted by rickyyo (123 posts) -

I would suggest if your talking about Christianity and Roman Catholicism to read some books that were banned from the Bible by Vatican Council 2. They tend to differ on what was set in stone as Catholic beliefs. One of the books mentions that Hell is just a holding place in which I think it is Gabriel or Jesus himself comes down and takes you to heaven. In that context Hell is just a detention center. As a world view, most religions try to portray the concept of striving to be a better person through supernatual ideas or boiling it down to you the person being the problem and here is how to fix it.

#38 Posted by pyromagnestir (4242 posts) -

I'll just let my man Emerson Cod tell you how I feel:

#39 Posted by Ares42 (2573 posts) -

Religion is not about empirical truth, it's about belief in something else. The belief in Truth is a different faith.

#40 Posted by sins_of_mosin (1556 posts) -

More evidence of ancient aliens then some mythical place like hell.

#41 Posted by kgb0515 (411 posts) -

I'm just wondering why this question is being posed here of all places? The OP obviously has a distinct opinion of whether or not there is an afterlife, so is the intent to convince or to honestly inspire in depth discussion on the matter? Either way, it just seems weird to post that question on a games site. We talk about some weird stuff here, but it seems like a stretch to assume that everyone is going to take this topic seriously or not start an argument in some shape or form. Just my two cents.

#42 Posted by Maajin (1052 posts) -

@dungbootle said:

No afterlife. We are not spiritually-elevated beings just because our brains are more complex than other species'. We're made of the same stuff as everything else, our miracle of life is no different than an amoeba's.

I like you.

#43 Posted by Dalai (6996 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

Burning chasms of fire only exist in Centralia. All supernatural things are imaginary.

I've actually been there so does that mean I've been to hell and back and lived to tell the tale?

#44 Posted by Sanity (1891 posts) -

Im a atheist so no... to me neither a heaven or hell exists, but i have no issue with people who are religious, different stokes for different folks.

#45 Posted by Iodine (542 posts) -

Heaven is real, it's the name of one of my friends.

Oh the place? I have no idea, but I am inclined to say no, and really I won't find out if I die so why worry about if I am being a good person because I want to be, not because I am promised salvation

#46 Posted by FiestaUnicorn (1577 posts) -

I don't believe in hell or god. There's no evidence for either. I'm also not one of those people who say everyone can believe whatever they want if it doesn't hurt anyone. I say that believe whatever you want, you're still wrong.

#47 Posted by Dad_Is_A_Zombie (1225 posts) -
  • Can you present any arguments as to why hell does or does not exist? No. Nor can I prove that the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist but I'm fairly sure he/she does not.
  • Is it possible to believe in god and not hell? (or vice-versa?) Or is it that you believe in one you have to in fact believe in the other as well? Since it's all fiction to begin with, I suppose you're free to believe some or all of it as you see fit.
  • If someone commits suicide, will that person go to hell? No. The fool wasted their one and only precious life and ceases to exist.
#48 Posted by wrecks (2210 posts) -

Hell is a human construct.

Online
#49 Posted by Djnuttty (138 posts) -

I can neither prove nor disprove the existence of a heaven or a hell, but, the probability of there actually being a heaven or a hell is unlikely.

#50 Posted by Djnuttty (138 posts) -

@dudy80:No need to compromise my friend, If you are an athiest then you do not need to sympathize with religous people. I assure you, the majority of them do not sympathize with athiests. Have you ever wondered why it's fine for them to mock atheism yet atheists are always saying stuff like 'Well yes, I am an athiest but religous people are cool too,' ?