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#1 Edited by mountainsox (1 posts) -

This is the most disturbing tape I've ever heard. The screams are unbearable, I think George told Trayvon that he was going to shoot him before he did it.

#2 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

Dude he was asking for it. He was wearing a Hooded Sweatshirt on a rainy night.

The leason from this "Perception is reality" *FACE FUCKING PALM*

#3 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4698 posts) -

What are you talking about?

#4 Posted by DonChipotle (2802 posts) -

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

What are you talking about?

An african american kid got shot in Florida. The guy who shot him claimed self defense. It wasn't. Killer got no jail time.

#5 Posted by Aronman789 (2694 posts) -

@DonChipotle: Don't forget that the police are ignoring that the kid only had some candy and a cup of tea on him, and that phone calls from the neighbors record the kid screaming for help for about ~30 seconds.

#6 Posted by falling_fast (2263 posts) -

congratulations, video games have not desensitized you to real violence.

also, I'm not a religious man, but I hope there's some sort of special hell reserved for the fuck who murdered him.

#7 Posted by myketuna (1730 posts) -
@DonChipotle said:

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

What are you talking about?

An african american kid got shot in Florida. The guy who shot him claimed self defense. It wasn't. Killer got no jail time.

Also, the kid had Skittles (thus the "box" of Skittles reference in the video) and a drink (I think) on his person. Nothing menacing.
#8 Posted by N7 (3656 posts) -

It was fucking sad to hear the kid screaming for help for a gooooood while before he was killed. Hopefully somebody finds that motherfucker and kicks his face in. Race Riots Part II: Race Rioter.

#9 Posted by TheJohn (553 posts) -

Black kid wearing a hoodie = criminal

White guy with a shotgun = patriot

Ignorance and prejudice is fucked up

#10 Posted by myketuna (1730 posts) -
@TheJohn said:

Black kid wearing a hoodie = criminal

White guy with a shotgun = patriot

Ignorance and prejudice is fucked up

But you can't rehabilitate the hoodie, man! You can't do it! "Rehabilitate the hoodie". *sigh*
 
(In case you didn't watch the embedded clip, this is said toward the end)
#11 Posted by Brendan (7974 posts) -

Florida! (Sorry Florida)

#12 Posted by allworkandlowpay (874 posts) -

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

What are you talking about?

A neighborhood watch captain in a gated community was following this kid around in his car and called 911, saying he was following a suspicious person and calling him racial epitheths while on the line and disobeying the dispatchers orders to cease following him. A little while later, the kid was dead, when he ran away from the man, and the man proceeded to shoot him.

This man has yet to go to jail.

#13 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

Question to Americans is Florida the most corrupt State in America? I mean that whole Election rigging in 2000 that got George Dubya into power and all these crazy gun laws.

#14 Posted by Kevin_Cogneto (1158 posts) -

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

Question to Americans is Florida the most corrupt State in America? I mean that whole Election rigging in 2000 that got George Dubya into power and all these crazy gun laws.

Illinois is by far the most corrupt state in America, though it's a kind of corruption that only affects local government and rarely affects national politics (aside from getting JFK elected). Florida isn't corrupt so much as it's just full of racist hillbillies.

#15 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

I find it crazy that a law as crazy as the "Stand Your Ground" is allowed to be past just through a state, it should be a nation wide thing.

#16 Posted by BraveToaster (12588 posts) -

I like reading comments posted by gun owners who think that Zimmerman was in the right to shoot the kid. People often misinterpret the Use of Force Model and end up looking like idiots.

@allworkandlowpay said:

A little while later, the kid was dead, when he ran away from the man, and the man proceeded to shoot him.

So he got up after he was dead? So he was a zombie?

#17 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

That "Stand your ground" law is complete bullshit.

#18 Posted by Slaker117 (4843 posts) -

The whole thing seems absolutely crazy. I feel like there must be something I'm missing because I flat out do not understand how this is allowed to happen.

#19 Posted by DonutFever (3559 posts) -

Can somebody link to the tapes, please?

#20 Posted by BonOrbitz (2242 posts) -

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

Question to Americans is Florida the most corrupt State in America? I mean that whole Election rigging in 2000 that got George Dubya into power and all these crazy gun laws.

COUGHCOUGHREPUBLICANSCOUGHCOUGH

#21 Posted by PeasantAbuse (5138 posts) -

Strong first post.

#22 Posted by Kevin_Cogneto (1158 posts) -

@CL60 said:

That "Stand your ground" law is complete bullshit.

@Slaker117 said:

The whole thing seems absolutely crazy. I feel like there must be something I'm missing because I flat out do not understand how this is allowed to happen.

This is what happens when politically-extreme-yet-financially-powerful lobbyist groups like the NRA (among many others, it happens just as often on the other side of the aisle) are allowed to run roughshod over the entire legislative branch of American government.

#23 Posted by Rawrnosaurous (768 posts) -

Fuck Geraldo Rivera for putting any blame what so ever on a clothing item for the murder of a young man. Next are you going to tell me that the clothes women wear are just to blame for them being raped?

#24 Posted by PeasantAbuse (5138 posts) -
#25 Posted by DonutFever (3559 posts) -
#26 Edited by wefwefasdf (6729 posts) -

@CL60 said:

That "Stand your ground" law is complete bullshit.

What exactly about the law bothers you the most? I don't have a concrete opinion on it yet because I've only done a little reading. I would like to hear your opinion.

In all honesty, I don't think Trayvon's murderer would have an adequate defense with it. I think the intention of law is good, but just like any law, the guilty are going to twist it to suit their purposes. Thankfully, the FBI have gotten involved and hopefully Trayvon's family will see justice.

#27 Posted by forkboy (1174 posts) -

@Rawrnosaurous: Yeah but depressingly blaming women for being raped is pretty much par for the course from certain segments of society. "Oh, the bitch was wearing a short skirt, she was asking for it!" You know when a woman is asking for it? When she says something along the lines of "lets fuck". If she looks "slutty" & yet somehow says she doesn't want to have sex with man A, & man A still forces himself on here, there's one person to blame there & it's man A.

There's enough stigma on rape victims as it is, enough pressure on them to come forward & be incredibely brave & hope that just for once the justice system won't be completely fucking useless without these asshole talking heads on TV & radio trying to blame women for getting raped. Few things make me angrier with humanity

#28 Posted by allworkandlowpay (874 posts) -

@CL60 said:

That "Stand your ground" law is complete bullshit.

The stand your ground law is completely irrelevant to this case, even the creator of the law is in agreement of that. Stand your ground is when somebody is assaulting you, not running away from you.

#29 Posted by falling_fast (2263 posts) -
#30 Posted by FengShuiGod (1492 posts) -

This whole issue is irrelevant to the NRA, Republicans, or the stand your ground laws. Don't polarize the incident of a crazy guy wrongfully shooting a kid.

#31 Posted by RenMcKormack (1074 posts) -

@FengShuiGod said:

This whole issue is irrelevant to the NRA, Republicans, or the stand your ground laws. Don't polarize the incident of a crazy guy wrongfully shooting a kid.

This. This story is totally nuts though. Wasn't the shooter like some kind of half assed like neighborhood watch guy?

#32 Posted by RenMcKormack (1074 posts) -

also. I believe the self defense law in FLA is "Retreat to the Wall". as in deadly force is only authorized (again as a defense to first degree murder) in the instance where there are NO other means of escape, or more practically if you are in your home or something.

#33 Posted by FengShuiGod (1492 posts) -

@RenMcKormack said:

@FengShuiGod said:

This whole issue is irrelevant to the NRA, Republicans, or the stand your ground laws. Don't polarize the incident of a crazy guy wrongfully shooting a kid.

This. This story is totally nuts though. Wasn't the shooter like some kind of half assed like neighborhood watch guy?

Yeah. He is a total idiot who failed the police academy, and called the police dozens of times in the last year for non-incidents. Basically a total Barney Fife wannabe.

#34 Posted by Kevin_Cogneto (1158 posts) -

@FengShuiGod said:

This whole issue is irrelevant to the NRA, Republicans, or the stand your ground laws. Don't polarize the incident of a crazy guy wrongfully shooting a kid.

George Zimmerman himself has invoked the stand your ground law by claiming self-defense. That argument wouldn't fly at all if not for that law, because in most other states he would've been expected to prove that he first attempted to flee from danger before being able to claim that he had the right to use deadly force in self-defense. The stand your ground law is the very crux of this case, and the sole reason why Zimmerman has yet to be charged with anything. To claim that the law is irrelevant is frankly ludicrous.

#35 Posted by jking47 (1241 posts) -

This kind of shit makes me sick.

#36 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

@allworkandlowpay said:

@CL60 said:

That "Stand your ground" law is complete bullshit.

The stand your ground law is completely irrelevant to this case, even the creator of the law is in agreement of that. Stand your ground is when somebody is assaulting you, not running away from you.

Which is why it's bullshit. It's successfully being used in cases where it shouldn't be. Some guy shot a bunch of people because he "thought they were gang members." and he got off because of "stand your ground." Another case, a guy seen somebody stealing from his car, so logically, he chased the guy down multiple blocks and stabbed him to death, got off on "stand your ground."

#37 Posted by ptc (621 posts) -

You're both forgetting about a little state known as  Rhode Island.
 
@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

Question to Americans is Florida the most corrupt State in America? I mean that whole Election rigging in 2000 that got George Dubya into power and all these crazy gun laws.

Illinois is by far the most corrupt state in America, though it's a kind of corruption that only affects local government and rarely affects national politics (aside from getting JFK elected). Florida isn't corrupt so much as it's just full of racist hillbillies.

#38 Posted by MikeinSC (910 posts) -

@CL60 said:

@allworkandlowpay said:

@CL60 said:

That "Stand your ground" law is complete bullshit.

The stand your ground law is completely irrelevant to this case, even the creator of the law is in agreement of that. Stand your ground is when somebody is assaulting you, not running away from you.

Which is why it's bullshit. It's successfully being used in cases where it shouldn't be. Some guy shot a bunch of people because he "thought they were gang members." and he got off because of "stand your ground." Another case, a guy seen somebody stealing from his car, so logically, he chased the guy down multiple blocks and stabbed him to death, got off on "stand your ground."

Given that he has not been charged with anything, much less had a trial, the law is irrelevant here.

Stand Your Ground simply means that if somebody breaks into your house and you shoot them, you're not criminally liable because you didn't try to run away first. Forget that. It's the most just defense law out there.

#39 Posted by FengShuiGod (1492 posts) -

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@FengShuiGod said:

This whole issue is irrelevant to the NRA, Republicans, or the stand your ground laws. Don't polarize the incident of a crazy guy wrongfully shooting a kid.

George Zimmerman himself has invoked the stand your ground law by claiming self-defense. That argument wouldn't fly at all if not for that law, because in most other states he would've been expected to prove that he first attempted to flee from danger before being able to claim that he had the right to use deadly force in self-defense. The stand your ground law is the very crux of this case, and the sole reason why Zimmerman has yet to be charged with anything. To claim that the law is irrelevant is frankly ludicrous.

No. He could easily claim that he ran from danger by saying "I ran from danger." No one else was there, so the law only has what he said to go on which does not provide enough evidence to convict him of anything. If there was no stand your ground, the only way this would have played out differently is that he would have had to appear at a hearing where he would have been released because there is not enough evidence to prove he was not acting in self defense.

#40 Posted by falling_fast (2263 posts) -

@ptc said:


You're both forgetting about a little state known as Rhode Island.

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

Question to Americans is Florida the most corrupt State in America? I mean that whole Election rigging in 2000 that got George Dubya into power and all these crazy gun laws.

Illinois is by far the most corrupt state in America, though it's a kind of corruption that only affects local government and rarely affects national politics (aside from getting JFK elected). Florida isn't corrupt so much as it's just full of racist hillbillies.

maybe I'm being presumptive here but I think the issue is more that Florida still has severe racism issues.

#41 Posted by Bwast (1342 posts) -

I don't even understand how this happened. How is it that neighborhood watch guys can be armed with guns? Are they at all connected to the police? Do they get training from police? Do they have any real authority? Because they're neighborhood watch they're allowed to stalk people and potentially open fire on them? This all seems completely insane to me.

#42 Edited by CL60 (16906 posts) -

@FengShuiGod said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@FengShuiGod said:

This whole issue is irrelevant to the NRA, Republicans, or the stand your ground laws. Don't polarize the incident of a crazy guy wrongfully shooting a kid.

George Zimmerman himself has invoked the stand your ground law by claiming self-defense. That argument wouldn't fly at all if not for that law, because in most other states he would've been expected to prove that he first attempted to flee from danger before being able to claim that he had the right to use deadly force in self-defense. The stand your ground law is the very crux of this case, and the sole reason why Zimmerman has yet to be charged with anything. To claim that the law is irrelevant is frankly ludicrous.

No. He could easily claim that he ran from danger by saying "I ran from danger." No one else was there, so the law only has what he said to go on which does not provide enough evidence to convict him of anything. If there was no stand your ground, the only way this would have played out differently is that he would have had to appear at a hearing where he would have been released because there is not enough evidence to prove he was not acting in self defense.

Not enough evidence? There's audio of the kid crying out for help, and Zimmerman himself saying he's the one following the kid, even after the police told him not to. Also the fact that I have a hard time believing a adult with a gun was acting in self defense against a teenager with a bag of skittles.

#43 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7099 posts) -

@bonorbitz said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

Question to Americans is Florida the most corrupt State in America? I mean that whole Election rigging in 2000 that got George Dubya into power and all these crazy gun laws.

COUGHCOUGHREPUBLICANSCOUGHCOUGH

HAHA

#44 Edited by Kevin_Cogneto (1158 posts) -

@FengShuiGod said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@FengShuiGod said:

This whole issue is irrelevant to the NRA, Republicans, or the stand your ground laws. Don't polarize the incident of a crazy guy wrongfully shooting a kid.

George Zimmerman himself has invoked the stand your ground law by claiming self-defense. That argument wouldn't fly at all if not for that law, because in most other states he would've been expected to prove that he first attempted to flee from danger before being able to claim that he had the right to use deadly force in self-defense. The stand your ground law is the very crux of this case, and the sole reason why Zimmerman has yet to be charged with anything. To claim that the law is irrelevant is frankly ludicrous.

No. He could easily claim that he ran from danger by saying "I ran from danger." No one else was there, so the law only has what he said to go on which does not provide enough evidence to convict him of anything. If there was no stand your ground, the only way this would have played out differently is that he would have had to appear at a hearing where he would have been released because there is not enough evidence to prove he was not acting in self defense.

But the burden of proof would be on him to prove he tried to escape from danger. With this law, that burden is no longer there, making it easier for guys like him to get away with this shit. Given the facts of this case, I don't think in a million years he'd be able to convince a prosecutor that he sincerely tried to escape (from a confrontation he instigated, I might add). But he doesn't have to prove it now, thanks to this law.

#45 Posted by FengShuiGod (1492 posts) -

@CL60 said:

@FengShuiGod said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@FengShuiGod said:

This whole issue is irrelevant to the NRA, Republicans, or the stand your ground laws. Don't polarize the incident of a crazy guy wrongfully shooting a kid.

George Zimmerman himself has invoked the stand your ground law by claiming self-defense. That argument wouldn't fly at all if not for that law, because in most other states he would've been expected to prove that he first attempted to flee from danger before being able to claim that he had the right to use deadly force in self-defense. The stand your ground law is the very crux of this case, and the sole reason why Zimmerman has yet to be charged with anything. To claim that the law is irrelevant is frankly ludicrous.

No. He could easily claim that he ran from danger by saying "I ran from danger." No one else was there, so the law only has what he said to go on which does not provide enough evidence to convict him of anything. If there was no stand your ground, the only way this would have played out differently is that he would have had to appear at a hearing where he would have been released because there is not enough evidence to prove he was not acting in self defense.

Not enough proof? There's audio of the kid crying out for help, and Zimmerman himself saying he's the one following the kid, even after the police told him not to. Also the fact that I have a hard time believing a adult with a gun was acting in self defense against a teenager with a bag of skittles.

All of this is irrelevant. All that matters is what happened in the seconds before the shooting, which only two people saw, one of whom is now dead. The shooter can claim the kid threatened him and approached him in a way that justified his use of deadly force, which he has.

#46 Posted by falling_fast (2263 posts) -

@FengShuiGod said:

@CL60 said:

@FengShuiGod said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@FengShuiGod said:

This whole issue is irrelevant to the NRA, Republicans, or the stand your ground laws. Don't polarize the incident of a crazy guy wrongfully shooting a kid.

George Zimmerman himself has invoked the stand your ground law by claiming self-defense. That argument wouldn't fly at all if not for that law, because in most other states he would've been expected to prove that he first attempted to flee from danger before being able to claim that he had the right to use deadly force in self-defense. The stand your ground law is the very crux of this case, and the sole reason why Zimmerman has yet to be charged with anything. To claim that the law is irrelevant is frankly ludicrous.

No. He could easily claim that he ran from danger by saying "I ran from danger." No one else was there, so the law only has what he said to go on which does not provide enough evidence to convict him of anything. If there was no stand your ground, the only way this would have played out differently is that he would have had to appear at a hearing where he would have been released because there is not enough evidence to prove he was not acting in self defense.

Not enough proof? There's audio of the kid crying out for help, and Zimmerman himself saying he's the one following the kid, even after the police told him not to. Also the fact that I have a hard time believing a adult with a gun was acting in self defense against a teenager with a bag of skittles.

All of this is irrelevant. All that matters is what happened in the seconds before the shooting, which only two people saw, one of whom is now dead. The shooter can claim the kid threatened him and approached him in a way that justified his use of deadly force, which he has.

that's fucked up, dude.

#47 Posted by BraveToaster (12588 posts) -

@Bwast said:

I don't even understand how this happened. How is it that neighborhood watch guys can be armed with guns? Are they at all connected to the police? Do they get training from police? Do they have any real authority? Because they're neighborhood watch they're allowed to stalk people and potentially open fire on them? This all seems completely insane to me.

The neighborhood watch is just a group of people within a neighborhood who patrol the area and observe and report suspicious activity. They're usually just regular ass people who aren't supposed to approach or detain suspicious individuals.

#48 Edited by Kevin_Cogneto (1158 posts) -

@FengShuiGod said:

@CL60 said:

@FengShuiGod said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@FengShuiGod said:

This whole issue is irrelevant to the NRA, Republicans, or the stand your ground laws. Don't polarize the incident of a crazy guy wrongfully shooting a kid.

George Zimmerman himself has invoked the stand your ground law by claiming self-defense. That argument wouldn't fly at all if not for that law, because in most other states he would've been expected to prove that he first attempted to flee from danger before being able to claim that he had the right to use deadly force in self-defense. The stand your ground law is the very crux of this case, and the sole reason why Zimmerman has yet to be charged with anything. To claim that the law is irrelevant is frankly ludicrous.

No. He could easily claim that he ran from danger by saying "I ran from danger." No one else was there, so the law only has what he said to go on which does not provide enough evidence to convict him of anything. If there was no stand your ground, the only way this would have played out differently is that he would have had to appear at a hearing where he would have been released because there is not enough evidence to prove he was not acting in self defense.

Not enough proof? There's audio of the kid crying out for help, and Zimmerman himself saying he's the one following the kid, even after the police told him not to. Also the fact that I have a hard time believing a adult with a gun was acting in self defense against a teenager with a bag of skittles.

All of this is irrelevant. All that matters is what happened in the seconds before the shooting, which only two people saw, one of whom is now dead. The shooter can claim the kid threatened him and approached him in a way that justified his use of deadly force, which he has.

You're only proving the other side's point. The only reason he can claim that it was justified because of the stand your ground law! Without that law, this line of logic would not be enough to legally justify deadly force!

#49 Posted by Karkarov (3229 posts) -

@bonorbitz said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

Question to Americans is Florida the most corrupt State in America? I mean that whole Election rigging in 2000 that got George Dubya into power and all these crazy gun laws.

COUGHCOUGHREPUBLICANSCOUGHCOUGH

Bullshit I am a republican and I think the guy should get jailed if not an injection. He murdered some teen kid because well.... because he just wanted to. He needs to go to jail bare minimum. The stand your ground law does not cover what he did because he had no reasonable reason to feel threatened. What was the kid gonna do, take him out with his skittles and green tea cup?

#50 Edited by falling_fast (2263 posts) -

Shouldn't the obligation be on the guy who took the shot to prove beyond any doubt that he had no other choice? you know, under a legal system that made sense.

Maybe it's because I come from a place where no one owns a gun, but I feel like if you're going to own a gun and use it then that burden should definitely fall on you.