• 149 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
#1 Posted by Contrarian (1143 posts) -

Considering the impact that America has on the rest of the world, and how that world generally prefers a Democrat government, it would be an interesting experience to attempt to influence the US elections. Sure, it seems like a corrupt idea, but let's face it, as far as western democracies are concerned, the US is amongst the most corrupt (gerrymander, rules to make it difficult to enrol et cetera).

So let's say that I want a say in the US elections, but not being a citizen, I can't. However, I could get a non-voter to enrol and vote for me, theoretically. If you are a non-voter, tell me how much you would sell your vote to me.

#2 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

A nickel? A vote isn't worth that much, really.

#3 Posted by Contrarian (1143 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

A nickel? A vote isn't worth that much, really.

How much is a nickel? I assume it is small.

You have to go and enrol and then vote ...... your time must be worth more than that.

#4 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Contrarian said:

your time must be worth more than that.

:|.

#5 Posted by Niall_Sg1 (362 posts) -

@Contrarian said:

Considering the impact that America has on the rest of the world, and how that world generally prefers a Democrat government, it would be an interesting experience to attempt to influence the US elections. Sure, it seems like a corrupt idea, but let's face it, as far as western democracies are concerned, the US is amongst the most corrupt (gerrymander, rules to make it difficult to enrol et cetera).

So let's say that I want a say in the US elections, but not being a citizen, I can't. However, I could get a non-voter to enrol and vote for me, theoretically. If you are a non-voter, tell me how much you would sell your vote to me.

The United States isn't among the worlds most corrupt governments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

#6 Posted by mandude (2669 posts) -

Even though I don't vote, I probably wouldn't sell it.

But for you, Contrarian, I'd be willing to make an exception, if you made me a cup of tea or something.

#7 Posted by No0b0rAmA (1490 posts) -

@Contrarian said:

Sure, it seems like a corrupt idea, but let's face it, as far as western democracies are concerned, the US is amongst the most corrupt (gerrymander, rules to make it difficult to enrol et cetera).

?????????

What? Are you a troll or something?

#8 Posted by Flawed_System (388 posts) -

@Niall_Sg1 said:

@Contrarian said:

Considering the impact that America has on the rest of the world, and how that world generally prefers a Democrat government, it would be an interesting experience to attempt to influence the US elections. Sure, it seems like a corrupt idea, but let's face it, as far as western democracies are concerned, the US is amongst the most corrupt (gerrymander, rules to make it difficult to enrol et cetera).

So let's say that I want a say in the US elections, but not being a citizen, I can't. However, I could get a non-voter to enrol and vote for me, theoretically. If you are a non-voter, tell me how much you would sell your vote to me.

The United States isn't among the worlds most corrupt governments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

Wow, that's interesting. Thanks for posting.

#9 Posted by PenguinDust (12493 posts) -

A Klondike Bar. Mmm, election fraudelicious.

#10 Posted by ma_rc_01 (363 posts) -

A good president

#11 Edited by MooseyMcMan (10910 posts) -

A better America.

Don't take that as an anti-Obama statement. I'm going to vote for him (again).

@Contrarian: A nickel is five cents, and there are 100 cents to a dollar.

Moderator
#12 Edited by Contrarian (1143 posts) -

@Flawed_System said:

"the US is amongst the most corrupt (gerrymander, rules to make it difficult to enrol et cetera)"

You mean rules that make it difficult to register? It's not difficult at all if you're a U.S. citizen and not an illegal immigrant.

I just corrected your incorrect correction of my correct spelling.

Why do I see so many stories of roadblocks to registering to vote across the USA, almost always by Republican politicians?

@mandude said:

Even though I don't vote, I probably wouldn't sell it.

But for you, Contrarian, I'd be willing to make an exception, if you made me a cup of tea or something.

For you, I would make two cups of tea, and a lovely chocolate biscuit.

@Niall_Sg1 said:

The United States isn't among the worlds most corrupt governments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

It is still very corrupt though.

#13 Posted by No0b0rAmA (1490 posts) -
#14 Posted by Meowshi (2911 posts) -

@Flawed_System said:

"the US is amongst the most corrupt (gerrymander, rules to make it difficult to enroll et cetera)"

You mean rules that make it difficult to register? It's not difficult at all if you're a U.S. citizen and not an illegal immigrant.

Yes, I'm sure all the roadblocks before the ballet box are meant to dissuade illegal immigrants and no one else. Yep.

That's totally what's going on.

#15 Posted by mandude (2669 posts) -

@Niall_Sg1 said:

The United States isn't among the worlds most corrupt governments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

To be fair, he did say Western Democracies. Even so, by virtue of the fact that Ireland somehow places in the top 20, renders this silly index irredeemably flawed and therefore void.

#16 Posted by Puddlesworth (59 posts) -

Considering I live in MA, my state is already gonna vote for who I want for president. But if we're talking in general we have a very close senate race this year that needs to be won.

#17 Posted by Contrarian (1143 posts) -

@No0b0rAmA said:

@Contrarian said:

Sure, it seems like a corrupt idea, but let's face it, as far as western democracies are concerned, the US is amongst the most corrupt (gerrymander, rules to make it difficult to enrol et cetera).

????????? What? Are you a troll or something?

Are you seriously suggesting that the US electoral system isn't corrupt? Most systems are corrupted, but the US is as I stated, amongst the worst. Big business who are people, rich men and their Superpacs, making it difficult to register, gerrymander - where do I begin? It isn't so much democracy as it is about money. I am not ignoring some of the other countries poor record, but if you compare the USA with the UK, New Zealand, Canada or Australia, it looks very bad.

@PenguinDust said:

A Klondike Bar. Mmm, election fraudelicious.

I do sell chocolate bars for a living - how ablout a box of Kit Kat?

@MooseyMcMan said:

A better America. Don't take that as an anti-Obama statement. I'm going to vote for him (again).

@Contrarian: A nickel is five cents, and there are 100 cents to a dollar.

A better America would be best created by a less aggressive congress. If only politicians thought about their country instead of partisan interests. Oh, and I could buy a lot of votes at 5 cents a piece.

#18 Posted by No0b0rAmA (1490 posts) -

@mandude said:

@Niall_Sg1 said:

The United States isn't among the worlds most corrupt governments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

To be fair, he did say Western Democracies. Even so, by virtue of the fact that Ireland somehow places in the top 20, renders this silly index irredeemably flawed and therefore void.

Look at the Western Democracies in Europe. They're worse than the United States.

#19 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10910 posts) -

@Contrarian: No, I'd say that a more aggressive Congress would get more stuff done. The problem with the current Congress is that they get nothing done.

And I know you mean aggressiveness between the two parties, but it's still not as aggressive as some countries where fistfights actually break out. To the best of my knowledge, there haven't been any fistfights in the US Congress in recent history.

Moderator
#20 Posted by hidys (1029 posts) -

As an Australian I wouldn't give my vote up for anything.

#21 Posted by Fattony12000 (7301 posts) -

All the money.

#22 Posted by Meowshi (2911 posts) -

I don't vote, so I'd honestly sell mine for a few thousand dollars. Why not.

#23 Posted by Village_Guy (2546 posts) -

I can't vote in the US election, but I'll still give my thoughts on this subject.

I wouldn't sell my vote for - pretty much - anything, that goes against my beliefs and personal sense of ethics and moral.

As for the corruption thing, I wouldn't say the US is one of the most corrupt countries in the world, they are probably fairly high up there if we count only Western Democracies though. But companies and rich businessmen simply have too much say in American politics, as money rules supreme. And as they have ways to get the money to the right people, without it being seen or counted as corruption, they can gain to much influence in politics.

#24 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -

@MooseyMcMan said:

@Contrarian: No, I'd say that a more aggressive Congress would get more stuff done. The problem with the current Congress is that they get nothing done.

And I know you mean aggressiveness between the two parties, but it's still not as aggressive as some countries where fistfights actually break out. To the best of my knowledge, there haven't been any fistfights in the US Congress in recent history.

Congress works as oversight to prevent Manchurian Candidates and Lobbyists from crafting policies which never serve the people. You want to make Congress efficient? Simple, allow for proper oversight and governance and take corporate interests out of the political process.

#25 Posted by Jams (2960 posts) -

@MooseyMcMan said:

@Contrarian: No, I'd say that a more aggressive Congress would get more stuff done. The problem with the current Congress is that they get nothing done.

And I know you mean aggressiveness between the two parties, but it's still not as aggressive as some countries where fistfights actually break out. To the best of my knowledge, there haven't been any fistfights in the US Congress in recent history.

I think the real problem it seems is that for every year that goes by, we (the people) seem to be splitting further away from unity. Every political whack-a-doo's keep those extremist on their far all for a vote and some power. Like the conservatives with their bullshit death panels and the liberals always claiming racism at anything they can and see what catches. The poor hating the rich, the rich hating the poor. Honestly in a world like this, I'm pretty sure there's always going to be a poor and rich like there is yin and yang. Maybe in some perfect world everyone can be well off, but not this one. We're going to lose no matter what we do. The only thing that'll happen is to go with the flow. There will probably be another civil war over this in the next 50 years. That is if we don't unify.

#26 Posted by Contrarian (1143 posts) -

@hidys said:

As an Australian I wouldn't give my vote up for anything.

Well, you can't vote for Gough Whitlam ............ what made you choose him as your avatar?

@Meowshi said:

I don't vote, so I'd honestly sell mine for a few thousand dollars. Why not.

Now you are talking like a true fan of free enterprise!

#27 Posted by Meowshi (2911 posts) -

@Contrarian said:

@Meowshi said:

I don't vote, so I'd honestly sell mine for a few thousand dollars. Why not.

Now you are talking like a true fan of free enterprise!

Indeed.

#28 Edited by Bocam (3719 posts) -

It really is easy to register to vote in America, unless you're a felon. I would sell my vote for a good cheese burger.

#29 Posted by Contrarian (1143 posts) -

@Bocam said:

It really is easy to register to vote in America, unless you're a felon. I would sale my vote for a good cheese burger.

Obviously not a McDonalds one then. A good, old fashioned cafe one, with real ingredients!

#30 Posted by mandude (2669 posts) -

@No0b0rAmA said:

Look at the Western Democracies in Europe. They're worse than the United States.

Who mentioned Europe? I'm saying that Corruption in America will have a much higher percentile rank when the pool of comparison is limited to Western Democracies (as the OP said), rather than The World (which was the criticism levelled at OP). I also said that the index is bollocks, which is fairly important to consider here.

#31 Edited by No0b0rAmA (1490 posts) -

@Contrarian said:

@No0b0rAmA said:

@Contrarian said:

Sure, it seems like a corrupt idea, but let's face it, as far as western democracies are concerned, the US is amongst the most corrupt (gerrymander, rules to make it difficult to enrol et cetera).

????????? What? Are you a troll or something?

Are you seriously suggesting that the US electoral system isn't corrupt? Most systems are corrupted, but the US is as I stated, amongst the worst. Big business who are people, rich men and their Superpacs, making it difficult to register, gerrymander - where do I begin? It isn't so much democracy as it is about money. I am not ignoring some of the other countries poor record, but if you compare the USA with the UK, New Zealand, Canada or Australia, it looks very bad.

Wealth = corruption? So people shouldn't be allowed to use their money to support candidates that appeal to their interests?

Also America isn't amongst the worst. Spain, Italy and Greece are amongst the worst.

Don't think that "Western Democracy" only includes the four countries that you just listed, it includes the Americas as a whole.

@mandude: Western European governments are represented in "Western Democracies".

#32 Posted by mandude (2669 posts) -

@No0b0rAmA said:

@mandude: Western European Governments are Western Democracies.

It still has nothing to do with what I said?

#33 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

@ma_rc_01 said:

A good president

I agree with that.

#34 Posted by WMWA (1160 posts) -

All governments are corrupt. Why single out the us?

#35 Posted by FateOfNever (1830 posts) -

@Niall_Sg1 said:

@Contrarian said:

Considering the impact that America has on the rest of the world, and how that world generally prefers a Democrat government, it would be an interesting experience to attempt to influence the US elections. Sure, it seems like a corrupt idea, but let's face it, as far as western democracies are concerned, the US is amongst the most corrupt (gerrymander, rules to make it difficult to enrol et cetera).

So let's say that I want a say in the US elections, but not being a citizen, I can't. However, I could get a non-voter to enrol and vote for me, theoretically. If you are a non-voter, tell me how much you would sell your vote to me.

The United States isn't among the worlds most corrupt governments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

The problem is that that doesn't really show accurate corruption. It's based part on opinion (via survey), and general 'perceived corruption.' That means some place could be the most corrupt place in the entire world, but if they hide it well enough then "eh, they're barely corrupt at all!" It'd be like the major religion out of Breath of Fire 2. To the masses the religion seemed like the best most fair thing ever. To those behind the scenes and those that knew the truth, the religion was a front to get a corrupt and evil god that wanted to destroy the world enough power to do what it wanted to do. As far as the public's concerned, not corrupt at all, but in truth, corrupt to the very core.

It's also hard to base corruption off of "public use of power for private gain." Simply because someone may look at something and go "that's public use of power for private gain." while others go "what are you talking about? No, they're just doing it for the greater good." Take all the ObamaCare crap. One could define that as corruption as it's using public power to gain personal favor and money for insurance companies. But others could define it simply as a step that needs to be taken towards global health care for the country, and if insurance companies become rich off of it, that's just an unavoidable side effect. The truth of the matter could be some mix of the two though.

But to deny that politics are ran by corporations at this point... Politicians get direct backing from corporations, meaning that if they want continued support from said corporations, they have to do favors, politically, for said corporations, or those corporations will move their money elsewhere and the people they backed before will now be without money, and without money, you cannot run for any serious office due to the sheer cost of campaigning alone, not to mention other issues.

So while the 'perceived' corruption may not be super high due to being unable to see behind closed doors and hiding corruption in plain sight, that doesn't mean that the United States is actually one of the least corrupted governments in the modern/western world.

#36 Posted by No0b0rAmA (1490 posts) -

@mandude said:

@No0b0rAmA said:

@mandude: Western European Governments are Western Democracies.

It still has nothing to do with what I said?

I thought your point was that the list included a lot of non western democracies?

#37 Posted by mandude (2669 posts) -

@No0b0rAmA: My point was that the criticism was levelled at something the OP never said.

#38 Posted by Contrarian (1143 posts) -

@No0b0rAmA said:

@Contrarian said:

@No0b0rAmA said:

@Contrarian said:

Sure, it seems like a corrupt idea, but let's face it, as far as western democracies are concerned, the US is amongst the most corrupt (gerrymander, rules to make it difficult to enrol et cetera).

????????? What? Are you a troll or something?

Are you seriously suggesting that the US electoral system isn't corrupt? Most systems are corrupted, but the US is as I stated, amongst the worst. Big business who are people, rich men and their Superpacs, making it difficult to register, gerrymander - where do I begin? It isn't so much democracy as it is about money. I am not ignoring some of the other countries poor record, but if you compare the USA with the UK, New Zealand, Canada or Australia, it looks very bad.

Wealth = corruption? So people shouldn't be allowed to use their money to support candidates that appeal to their interests?

Also America isn't amongst the worst. Spain, Italy and Greece are amongst the worst.

Don't think that "Western Democracy" only includes the four countries that you just listed, it includes the Americas as a whole.

@mandude: Western European governments are represented in "Western Democracies".

Do you seriously believe that private and business wealth used to influnce the outcome of an election equates to good democracy? They are the exact opposite. True democracy means one person, one vote. Money corrupts that. A rich person should not have more say in an election by virtue of what that money can do. It ensures that any politician elected to office is compromised.

I wouldn't hang my hat on Spain, Greece and Italy making America look good. If you believe that list (and I don't), they are pretty much the only western democracies lower than America in perception. Keep in mind, it is a perception index and needs to be viewed as such.

#39 Posted by triviaman09 (801 posts) -

two votes

#40 Posted by Jimbo (9800 posts) -

@triviaman09 said:

two votes

You're gonna go far.

#41 Posted by IAmNotBatman (634 posts) -

I like video-games.

#42 Posted by Geno (6477 posts) -

Would sell my vote for three votes. 
 
Step right up, single file please.

#43 Posted by Vodun (2370 posts) -

@Contrarian said:

Considering the impact that America has on the rest of the world, and how that world generally prefers a Democrat government, it would be an interesting experience to attempt to influence the US elections. Sure, it seems like a corrupt idea, but let's face it, as far as western democracies are concerned, the US is amongst the most corrupt (gerrymander, rules to make it difficult to enrol et cetera).

So let's say that I want a say in the US elections, but not being a citizen, I can't. However, I could get a non-voter to enrol and vote for me, theoretically. If you are a non-voter, tell me how much you would sell your vote to me.

Why do you figure the world prefers a Democrat? The world prefers a non-moron, it's not a party thing.

#44 Posted by Benny (1951 posts) -

Scandinavia fucking dominates shit like this. Trade your vote for Scandinavian secrets.

#45 Posted by hidys (1029 posts) -

@Contrarian: Whitlam achieved more in this country in a very short time period than probably anyone else has and I hold great admiration for the man. Not everything he did was perfect and he was clearly too trusting of certain people (Bill Hunter, John Kerr) but this country is a better place because of him.

#46 Posted by Contrarian (1143 posts) -

For those saying it is easy to vote in the USA, then you are probably a white male, if you believe these two articles:

GOP erects roadblocks to voting in Florida and other states ...

U.S.: a long history of roadblocks to democracy [reposted with ...

@Jimbo said:

@triviaman09 said:

two votes

You're gonna go far.

@Geno said:

Would sell my vote for three votes. Step right up, single file please.

Now we have free enterprise in motion.

@IAmNotBatman said:

I like video-games.

Okay. I will buy your vote with a copy of Halo 4, or whatever it is you like!

@Vodun said:

@Contrarian said:

Considering the impact that America has on the rest of the world, and how that world generally prefers a Democrat government, it would be an interesting experience to attempt to influence the US elections. Sure, it seems like a corrupt idea, but let's face it, as far as western democracies are concerned, the US is amongst the most corrupt (gerrymander, rules to make it difficult to enrol et cetera).

So let's say that I want a say in the US elections, but not being a citizen, I can't. However, I could get a non-voter to enrol and vote for me, theoretically. If you are a non-voter, tell me how much you would sell your vote to me.

Why do you figure the world prefers a Democrat? The world prefers a non-moron, it's not a party thing.

I think you would find that most non Americans trust Democrats more. No evidence, just a gut feel. maybe a poll is in order for non American members as a small test case.

#47 Posted by Red (5994 posts) -

I don't care much for politics (and I live in Arizona, wherein a Republican will never not win, so my vote is completely meaningless whichever side it's for), but I still don't think I'd sell my vote. Mostly just because I'm ridiculously paranoid and fear that if someone were to find out, I would get in trouble.

#48 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

a coke and a banana moon pie?

#49 Posted by mandude (2669 posts) -

@IAmNotBatman said:

I like video-games.

Quite evidently, you're on the wrong website.

#50 Posted by Contrarian (1143 posts) -

@Benny said:

Scandinavia fucking dominates shit like this. Trade your vote for Scandinavian secrets.

Why are Scandinavian countries so awesome? What is their secret?

@hidys said:

@Contrarian: Whitlam achieved more in this country in a very short time period than probably anyone else has and I hold great admiration for the man. Not everything he did was perfect and he was clearly too trusting of certain people (Bill Hunter, John Kerr) but this country is a better place because of him.

My memory of the good he did doesn't end with the fact that he enacted universal healthcare for the country, that hasn't been the death of Australia after 37 or so years of it. He also ended conscription for the Vietnam War and simplified divorce with a no-fault system, making it easier for women to leave without an ugly vourt case. I admire him greatly as well.

@Red said:

I don't care much for politics (and I live in Arizona, wherein a Republican will never not win, so my vote is completely meaningless whichever side it's for), but I still don't think I'd sell my vote. Mostly just because I'm ridiculously paranoid and fear that if someone were to find out, I would get in trouble.

I am pretty sure if I set up a website and 'bought' votes, even though I would be safe, I imagine the FBI would be knocking on your door.