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#1 Posted by YOU_DIED (703 posts) -
#2 Posted by talkingtoast (85 posts) -

I hope so. Such a shame what happened she did to Rab.

#3 Posted by TooWalrus (13256 posts) -

Is there a TL;DR for the background story behind all this, because I have no idea who these people are or what's going on.

#4 Posted by algertman (852 posts) -

You're next Brad.

#5 Edited by RubberFactory (291 posts) -

Who? MCV as in mean corpuscular volume?

#6 Posted by c_rakestraw (854 posts) -
#7 Posted by PeasantAbuse (5138 posts) -

Those people are dumb.

#8 Posted by YOU_DIED (703 posts) -

@RubberFactory said:

Who? MCV as in mean corpuscular volume?

I assume they are a games journalism outfit

#9 Posted by Akrid (1356 posts) -
#10 Posted by murisan (1119 posts) -

Good riddance

#11 Posted by Kerned (1169 posts) -

However you may feel about her or what she did, it's in exceedingly poor taste on the part of her former employer to publicly discuss her firing. And on Twitter, no less! It shows a real lack of class.

#12 Edited by JasonR86 (9726 posts) -

@talkingtoast said:

I hope so. Such a shame what happened she did to Rab.

Rab acted like an immature twat. Not because he wrote the article but by making the insinuations and then immediately back-peddling within the same article. Lauren acted like an unprofessional twat. And the writer of the piece that was linked by the OP is being way, way too over-dramatic.

EDIT:

Also, MVC seems like a fucking awful company.

#13 Posted by TooWalrus (13256 posts) -

@C_Rakestraw: Thanks. Read the whole thing... I don't have the energy to care about something so stupid. Wow.

#14 Posted by ajamafalous (12154 posts) -

This situation continues to be a giant clusterfuck.

#15 Edited by CornBREDX (5995 posts) -

This is in reference to Lauren Wainwright, who Rab something from Eurogamer called out (and later had to edit out due to threats of prosecution from her) among other things being wrong in Video Game journalism (a large part of which he was speaking about a photo of Geoff Keighley sitting next to Halo 4, Mountain Dew and Doritos advertising looking nonplussed). 
Rab calling Wainwright out (which was done in only a short portion of the piece all told and was not the main point but merely an example) sparked a wave of legal threats from wainwright among a lot of other bad choices (such as clearly having a Video Game developer as a passed employer but then removing them as if it never happened, like the internet wouldn't notice and the internet notices everything).  
Mainly, though, it sparked another (but much more charismatic, layered with some truth) discussion on the ethics in video game journalism which was discussed in severe length on the Giant bombcast, Eurogamer (had also an article explaining why they had to edit the article), a Blog site from another journalist (from Rock, Paper, Shotgun) where Rab and this other dude wrote more expressing concerns further while also explaining not even they were above criticism, a Kotaku article of apology from Stephen Totillo that he was dismissive of the whole thing expressing they would do a follow up article of the entire thing, and sparked the internet a blaze. Lasted about 2 weeks give or take. 
Can see the original article here (well, it's editted form).
 
Ya, I can see how some people missed it. =P

#16 Posted by JeanLuc (3608 posts) -

Do some gaming websites really post articles that talk about what review scores other sites give? Gah, that's disgusting.

#17 Posted by YOU_DIED (703 posts) -

@CornBREDX: Totilos comments were priceless

#18 Posted by Animasta (14721 posts) -

@YOU_DIED:

... I don't get your point; what's wrong with unboxing videos exactly?

#19 Edited by Akyho (1698 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@YOU_DIED:

... I don't get your point; what's wrong with unboxing videos exactly?

The point is it was sent free to them. And that is part of the Rabs original Article of Game journalist being technically paid off with free stuff from PR, as PR people ARE ALWAYS trying to influence them.

That is why its a funny picture.

I looked through the MVC Twitter page, since I follow Rab and ofcourse Patrick. Jesus. So the new thing with MVC is about their round up of only positive Reviews for Hitman.

Drum Roll for those who know about all the MVC Wainright stuff it is a Square Enix game.

So its got alot of backlash, The thing I laugh about is the Retweets MCV are doing.

Tabspretzel84

People are mad at MCVonline for missing a few review links? Who put fuckery in your cornflakes this morning? You make me sad interwebs.

Retweeted by MCV

Lee RitsonBizKiTRoAcH

MCVonline If some readers don't like what they see, why don't they piss off somewhere else? Whiny idiots. I still ❤ you

Retweeted by MCV

#20 Edited by Animasta (14721 posts) -

@Akyho said:

@Animasta said:

@YOU_DIED:

... I don't get your point; what's wrong with unboxing videos exactly?

The point is it was sent free to them. And that is part of the Rabs original Article of Game journalist being technically paid off with free stuff from PR, as PR people ARE ALWAYS trying to influence them.

That is why its a funny picture.

No, the point was that totilo posted something on how he wanted to engage in good games journalism and then he posted that unboxing video as if that wasn't good games journalism for whatever reason.

I mean what's the difference between that video and the skyrim statue unboxing?

#21 Posted by JasonR86 (9726 posts) -

@Akyho said:

@Animasta said:

@YOU_DIED:

... I don't get your point; what's wrong with unboxing videos exactly?

The point is it was sent free to them. And that is part of the Rabs original Article of Game journalist being technically paid off with free stuff from PR, as PR people ARE ALWAYS trying to influence them.

That is why its a funny picture.

Did you listen to the Bombcast where they talked about all the free shit they get and how it has no baring on their opinion? Here;

http://www.giantbomb.com/podcast/?podcast_id=351

It's at around the 1.5 hour mark or so.

#22 Posted by CornBREDX (5995 posts) -
@Animasta: He was just posting a picture of the comment Stephen Totillo made dismissing this citing something that happened as being cause for investigation (as if it didn't actually happen). The picture of the unboxing is incidental in my opinion (if it's meant for irony I don't really care as I am not trying to take sides in any of it, but I have always found video games journalism by nature to be complicated in that it must be at least in small part be in bed with that which it wants to honestly critique in order to stay alive- and this whole thing just brought it to the fore front again).
#23 Posted by Kerned (1169 posts) -

@PulledaBrad: All I am saying is that MCV shouldn't air their dirty laundry (or hers). I don't understand what part of that is controversial.

#24 Posted by Animasta (14721 posts) -

@CornBREDX: well I was merely talking about the unboxing video so...

#25 Posted by CornBREDX (5995 posts) -
@Animasta: I know. The unboxing beneath is incidental and most certainly intended for irony- only thing worth noting from it is the comment itself haha
#26 Edited by Turambar (6894 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@YOU_DIED:

... I don't get your point; what's wrong with unboxing videos exactly?

I think he's more pointing out the irony of Kotaku's Editor in Chief saying they do good game journalism.

Edit: Whoa, missed page 2 which explained the comment and I had it all wrong. Never mind! :D

#27 Posted by Akyho (1698 posts) -

@Animasta said:

No, the point was that totilo posted something on how he wanted to engage in good games journalism and then he posted that unboxing video as if that wasn't good games journalism for whatever reason.

I mean what's the difference between that video and the skyrim statue unboxing?

No....it all ALL together. The Rab Florence Article about Game journalists too close to PR, and the thing that made everyone look at it Wainrights legal threats the editing. then His Totitlo's uncaring attitude towards it and his declaration of Good Games Journalism. Followed with "Top Story" is unboxing $500 of Halo that was sent to them for FREE.

As if to Imply they were bought off and on top of that. Good Games journalism apparently is show off our free stuff. Its a purely cynical. If you have an ounce of positivity to anything in life...you will not get it. You have to be a cynical asshole...I am one.

Skyrim Statue unboxing was the GB'ers standing around going .We didn't ask for this...if someone had asked.....we would have said no...AWW fuck...what are we gonna do with this....um...can we....like get rid of it...oh shit we cant move it once its built, with the end of the letter being, WE LEFT IT IN THE OLD OFFICE!! FUCK THAT THING!

#28 Posted by Animasta (14721 posts) -

@Akyho said:

@Animasta said:

No, the point was that totilo posted something on how he wanted to engage in good games journalism and then he posted that unboxing video as if that wasn't good games journalism for whatever reason.

I mean what's the difference between that video and the skyrim statue unboxing?

No....it all ALL together. The Rab Florence Article about Game journalists too close to PR, and the thing that made everyone look at it Wainrights legal threats the editing. then His Totitlo's uncaring attitude towards it and his declaration of Good Games Journalism. Followed with "Top Story" is unboxing $500 of Halo that was sent to them for FREE.

As if to Imply they were bought off and on top of that. Good Games journalism apparently is show off our free stuff. Its a purely cynical. If you have an ounce of positivity to anything in life...you will not get it. You have to be a cynical asshole...I am one.

Skyrim Statue unboxing was the GB'ers standing around going .We didn't ask for this...if someone had asked.....we would have said no...AWW fuck...what are we gonna do with this....um...can we....like get rid of it...oh shit we cant move it once its built, with the end of the letter being, WE LEFT IT IN THE OLD OFFICE!! FUCK THAT THING!

we have the context for that skyrim shit, you and me, but who else does? Just as YOU don't have the context for the kotaku unboxing shit. They got the thing for free, so they decided to show it off to see if other people might want the same thing; it is good purchasing advice even if it isn't the most hard hitting journalism out there.

@Turambar: see that's what I thought he was going to say so I was real confused when he posted an unboxing video and not anything posted by... oh god I forget his name. Kirk Hamilton, innit? that guy that posts those terrible posts about Japan?

#29 Posted by Turambar (6894 posts) -

@Animasta: What did Hamilton say? I haven't been on Kotaku since the redesign.

#31 Posted by laserbolts (5365 posts) -

I have no idea who Wainwright is or what all this is about. Is it worth reading about or should I just be on my way?

#32 Edited by Pr1mus (3946 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@Pr1mus said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Pr1mus said:

Well it sure is in poor taste from MCV but that bitch idiot had it coming.

Classy.

Yep, it is what it is.

it is what it is being misogyny, obviously

There you happy now?

#33 Posted by YOU_DIED (703 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@Pr1mus said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Pr1mus said:

Well it sure is in poor taste from MCV but that dumb bitch had it coming.

Classy.

Yep, it is what it is.

it is what it is being misogyny, obviously

In what way is that misogyny?

#34 Posted by Giantstalker (1727 posts) -

@laserbolts said:

I have no idea who Wainwright is or what all this is about. Is it worth reading about or should I just be on my way?

It's a monumental exercise in creative navel-gazing that got way, way, way out of hand. Save your time, it's too valuable for pointless stuff like this.

#35 Posted by Animasta (14721 posts) -

@YOU_DIED said:

@Animasta said:

@Pr1mus said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Pr1mus said:

Well it sure is in poor taste from MCV but that dumb bitch had it coming.

Classy.

Yep, it is what it is.

it is what it is being misogyny, obviously

In what way is that misogyny?

(bitch)

fortunately he edited it to idiot which makes everyone happy (and I personally agree with, though I blame England's libel laws more than her since this wouldn't have escalated like this in America)

#36 Posted by JasonR86 (9726 posts) -

@YOU_DIED said:

@Animasta said:

@Pr1mus said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Pr1mus said:

Well it sure is in poor taste from MCV but that dumb bitch had it coming.

Classy.

Yep, it is what it is.

it is what it is being misogyny, obviously

In what way is that misogyny?

I can't speak for Animasta but I'm not totally sure I would use the word 'misogyny' exactly. But this lady shouldn't be called a 'dumb bitch'. 'Bitch' is a loaded term and shouldn't be thrown around. It's a classless, shitty thing to do.

#37 Posted by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

Good riddance. I hope she never gets a job even remotely related to video games again. Not even working the counter at Gamestop.

Let's put her on the shelf between Eric Larson and the Ocean marketing douche and keep them as far away from video games as possible in the future

#38 Posted by Akyho (1698 posts) -

@Animasta said:


we have the context for that skyrim shit, you and me, but who else does? Just as YOU don't have the context for the kotaku unboxing shit. They got the thing for free, so they decided to show it off to see if other people might want the same thing; it is good purchasing advice even if it isn't the most hard hitting journalism out there.

Thats the funny thing....context. It was taken out of context and put into the context of "Good Journalism is not reporting on PR people trying to buy off Journalist!" with the out of context "We got free shit..lets unbox it." its a stupid throw away joke.

Once you put logic into it you go "well...it is actually a decent thing. If I was to throw down $500 on something like that. I would like to have an unskewered view on what I would get."

It is a joke not to be taken seriously.

@JasonR86 said:


Did you listen to the Bombcast where they talked about all the free shit they get and how it has no baring on their opinion? Here;

http://www.giantbomb.com/podcast/?podcast_id=351

It's at around the 1.5 hour mark or so.

I know, that is why I trust the GB crew. Other reviewers I dont, not saying they are on the "take" there is MANY reasons. Main one is they are not Cynical assholes like me and like the GB crew. I fucking love hearing Jeff talking about PR trying to sway them "lets jet them off the Hawaii! and get them drunk! ok who is up for Jet Skii ing!" with Jeffs remarks being something like. (Fuck that! Why cant I fucking go down the street to the office were they game is being made RIGHT NOW! and just talk to the guys! I know some of them! I have had dinner with their family! Why do I have to come to Hawaii on a 6 hour flight. Fuck around with PR and Jet SKiing! when I could be at home playing threw a game and getting SOME FUCKING WORK DONE!)

#39 Posted by Animasta (14721 posts) -

@Akyho: well sorry for having higher standards for comedy D:

#40 Posted by _Zombie_ (1462 posts) -

This is still a thing?

#41 Posted by JasonR86 (9726 posts) -

@Akyho:

Just because other journalists aren't as candid as Jeff doesn't mean they don't think it. For example the GB crew is close to a lot of people at Gameinformer who I feel, despite being owned by Gamestop, are very honest but aren't always candid (though sometimes they are). The three main editors there have nearly 20 years of experience a piece. There are many journalist out there like that. I think in this instance it is better to give these guys the benefit of the doubt until they are proven to be unreliable.

#42 Posted by CornBREDX (5995 posts) -
@laserbolts: If you have a few minutes its an interesting study into the (in some ways inescapable) world of video game reviewes/journalism and how it is influenced by PR with the intention of being honest none the less. 
 
If not, or you don't care about that in general, probably not. Although in my opinion the Rab Florence article is still a good read.
#43 Posted by Pr1mus (3946 posts) -

@JasonR86: Well if it can make people happy i will refrain from using words such as b**** or c*** or f*****. Actually i never use the last one anyway and c*** only because of Vinny.

My point stand though, she had it coming and good riddance.

#44 Posted by NegativeCero (3039 posts) -

At least they didn't announce exactly what she did to lose her job. I wonder if this basically blacklists her from future jobs in the games media after being called out on her conflict of interest. Probably not.

#45 Posted by YOU_DIED (703 posts) -

@Pr1mus said:

@JasonR86: Well if it can make people happy i will refrain from using words such as b**** or c*** or f*****. Actually i never use the last one anyway and c*** only because of Vinny.

My point stand though, she had it coming and good riddance.

DID I GO TOO FAR?

#46 Posted by murisan (1119 posts) -

How about we just agree to call Wainwright a dumbass? Gender neutral, true to form.

#47 Posted by BigDaveisCheap (23 posts) -

@Animasta: Some people see unboxings as cheap fluff pseudo journalism.

Personally it seems to me like the kind of thing a Youtuber does not a site really trying to report in a journalistic fashion. Then again we're talking about Kotaku here, they've always been style over substance.

#48 Edited by Akyho (1698 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

@Akyho:

Just because other journalists aren't as candid as Jeff doesn't mean they don't think it. For example the GB crew is close to a lot of people at Gameinformer who I feel, despite being owned by Gamestop, are very honest but aren't always candid (though sometimes they are). The three main editors there have nearly 20 years of experience a piece. There are many journalist out there like that. I think in this instance it is better to give these guys the benefit of the doubt until they are proven to be unreliable.

Have you read what I said. There are MANY reasons, one I dont know any other reviewers well enough to trust their view. Its a choice matter.

You say innocent until proven guilty. I dont say guilty until proven innocent what I do say is give me a reason to trust you. If I like a reviewer and trust them Id follow them. However its hasn't happened for me. GB is my first. 10 years of following game and reviews I haven't found a group I found was like minded and I absorbed enough of them to understand their views. Rather than a cold review from random reviewers like I used to.

8 4 play is warming to me. And I trust Will and Norm on Tested. It is purely taste.

Its like friends, you dont just "choose" a friend you just make a friend. I am just picky about my reviewers...much like my friends....why I dont have much....wont you...wait we dont share the same views. we cant be friends.

#49 Posted by JasonR86 (9726 posts) -

@Akyho said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Akyho:

Just because other journalists aren't as candid as Jeff doesn't mean they don't think it. For example the GB crew is close to a lot of people at Gameinformer who I feel, despite being owned by Gamestop, are very honest but aren't always candid (though sometimes they are). The three main editors there have nearly 20 years of experience a piece. There are many journalist out there like that. I think in this instance it is better to give these guys the benefit of the doubt until they are proven to be unreliable.

Have you read what I said. There are MANY reasons, one I dont know any other reviewers well enough to trust their view. Its a choice matter.

You say innocent until proven guilty. I dont say guilty until proven innocent what I do say is give me a reason to trust you. If I like a reviewer and trust them Id follow them. However its hasn't happened for me. GB is my first. 10 years of following game and reviews I haven't found a group I found was like minded and I absorbed enough of them to understand their views. Rather than a cold review from random reviewers like I used to.

8 4 play is warming to me. And I trust Will and Norm on Tested. It is purely taste.

Its like friends, you dont just "choose" a friend you just make a friend. I am just picky about my reviewers...much like my friends....why I dont have much....wont you...wait we dont share the same views. we cant be friends.

Huh.

#50 Posted by CornBREDX (5995 posts) -

When it comes to Wainwright, I am completely confused about her response to the article. I think it comes from cultural differences (as, in the US, while we have frivolous litigation and slander issues, they don't seem to be as extreme). 
 
One would think by logic, either not saying anything, or apologizing and moving on would be the best response. Instead she filed a complaint and intent to sue if not rectified, and tried to make it disappear and erase her potential compromise. 
 
It's fine if you have worked for a game developer, to me, as long as you're honest about it and decide "you know what I cant review that because I have professional bias." It's a simple choice to make. Giantbomb did so for Bastion, Alex Navarro does for Harmonix, and I'm sure others do as well if they feel they are to close. I know Jeff worries the amount of developer interaction they have is to much sometimes (to which I say fi- they are completely professional about it and just because they are friends does not mean they are compromised- and few would argue). 
 
I feel bad for Dave Cook. He legitimately seems to not have realized the scope of such an action and wanted to rectify things (which you can see in the comments to the article if you want to look into that). I don't know of the guy, his writing, or anything like that but let this be a lesson. Always challenge your own bias, if you want to review games or be a games journalist, and scrutinize yourself when pondering what PR things you should accept. It's a delicate balancing act as you have to keep PR happy so you can get information, but you always want to keep your integrity in tact. 
 
Sigh... I wish I could sleep. This doesn't actually deserve me writing this much in all honesty, but it's still something I find interesting.