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#51 Edited by stryker1121 (1237 posts) -

Not sure there's a need for a Gov redemption arc. He wasn't a fleshed out enough character in S3 to deserve such a thing. Personally if he was reverted to a straight-ahead psychopath looking for revenge on Rick and Co., I would have been just fine. TWD tries to do layers but the writing doesn't do enough to make something like a Gov comeback meaningful. And next week looks like another all-Gov affair. The best that could happen is this surrogate family gets killed and our boy totally loses his mind.

#52 Posted by I_Stay_Puft (2596 posts) -

Season so far has just been underwhelming but in all honesty was to be expected? For the first time the shows writers don't have the plot of the comics to guide them so this is the first time we're seeing what they have to show and so far its been pretty bad. I think Robert Kirkman needs to go up in there and steer this bull in the right direction before its too late and we get Dexter.

#53 Posted by BawlZINmotion (704 posts) -

The "pilot" was good, the rest of season 1 was slow. The first half of season 2 was mostly slow. The second half of season 2 and all of season 3 were good. Season 4 has been slow. The Walking Dead is just too slow of a show most of the time for me to care. It takes way to long to development the points it wants to develop. And no I don't need action or crazy plots, just meaningful progression. I still watch though. Until the governor showed up this week, I was bored with season 4. I just don't think the situations the characters are in most of the time leads to good plots or character development.

However, Boardwalk Empire has been really good this season.

#54 Edited by TheHT (10274 posts) -

However, Boardwalk Empire has been really good this season.

Everything is gonna explode on Sunday. Can't wait.

#55 Edited by project343 (2807 posts) -

There are better bad action shows on television. Arrow, for instance, has the decency to be campy and aware of how cheesy it is.

#56 Posted by LiquidPrince (15606 posts) -

I've been enjoying the season a lot so far. I love the idea that these people already have so much shit to deal with and now they have to deal with a sickness as well. That and the Governor returning in a way that I didn't expect was pretty cool. Although I'm sure if I peruse this thread, there will be a bunch of people shitting on this season, as the internet tends to do. Shit on everything.

#57 Posted by ch3burashka (4902 posts) -

@breadfan said:

Totally just crammed the Rise of the Governor book into the show. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Haven't read it, and now I apparently don't need to; not that I really wanted to - a cliche psychopath isn't that interesting.

Apparently he's still an asshole - good to know. I didn't really care about the last two episodes, about Gov'nor's rise to power, again, but now that the two teams are meeting again I'm back on board. A bit bummed Gov'nor's camp didn't get diseased to thin out his ranks (which lends credence to the theory that it was a pig zombie flu).

Anyone think the Hyundai ads for the next week's episode are lies? Every time it's all like "GUNS EXPLOSIONS PEOPLE WILL DIE AND SAY SWEAR WORDS" and each time it's way more subdued than that. It's like they don't get what makes TWD TWD.

Also, fuck "mid-season finales". Breaking Bad did it the worst, spanning a season over 2 years, and South Park basically does two half-seasons a year, but the concept is annoying - manage your time better.

#58 Edited by Flacracker (1390 posts) -

@ch3burashka: Yeah. They always show people shooting and shit but they are all terrible shots and no one gets hit or dies. In the comics though, Andrea was a crack shot sniper and a ton people die in the battle scenes.

#59 Posted by awesomeusername (4057 posts) -

GUYS THIS EPISODE WAS CRAZY LET'S TALK. YES, IM YELLING

#60 Posted by OneKillWonder_ (1594 posts) -

Holy shit, you guys. I don't care how ridiculous and convoluted the set-up for this episode was, because the episode itself was fucking epic. We finally got the battle that should've ended last season. The Governor is finally dead, but unfortunately so is Hershel. He was such a fantastic character and I'm really sad to see him go, especially like he did. Great cliffhanger for the rest of the season, though I'm 99% sure Judith is still alive. I hope the show can continue to be this good, because this was the kind of energy and excitement missing from the rest of this season.

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#61 Posted by kadash299 (249 posts) -

@onekillwonder_: Spoiler: She dies in the Comic books in the prison encounter.

Shes probably really dead

#62 Posted by SSully (4059 posts) -

Best episode in the entire series. They finally made an episode that packs a punch like the comics did. No bullshit loose ends, no shitty cop outs. Just shit hitting the fan in the best way possible.

#63 Posted by connerthekewlkid (1773 posts) -

Well that just happened.

#64 Posted by Breadfan (6586 posts) -

Something interesting finally happened and now we play the waiting game.

#65 Posted by OneKillWonder_ (1594 posts) -

@kadash299: I'm aware of that, but the show had diverged so wildly from the comics at this point that it's hardly impossible. I feel like if they wanted her dead, you would know and wouldn't keep you guessing. I could be entirely wrong, but I'm still betting she's alive.

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#66 Edited by Whitestripes09 (363 posts) -

@onekillwonder_: I'm 99% sure that Judith is dead. There is no other way for a prime time network television show to visually show an infant dying other than showing an empty car seat with some blood on it. Not to mention that in the comic she dies as well. If they cop out and bring her back somehow I'm going to be a bit disappointed...

Really good episode though! Very emotional talking dead segment too with Scott Wilson. I feel bad for Chris Hardwick to have to deal with the loss of his father and then talk about the loss of Hershel with Maggie.

#67 Edited by Dalai (6878 posts) -

This was the kind of episode the show really needed. The entire season was fine, but the sickness and the drama amongst the people slowed the series down after the whole Woodbury thing. Bringing the Governor back to pretty much fuck shit up and die was great, but Hershel man. It's like losing Dale all over again. It's always black guys and older guys with white beards, isn't it?

#68 Posted by MightyDuck (1435 posts) -

I feel like that last 2 or 3 episodes really sort of picked up steam for me. Combine those with what I thought was a pretty engaging and exciting Mid Season Finale. I'd say I'm officially hooked again and looking forward to the return in February.

It was nice to see so many things...actually happening, if that makes sense.

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#69 Posted by ch3burashka (4902 posts) -

2013 has been a shit year for everyone.

Gotta say, that resolved waaay quicker than I expected - I thought they'd stretch the battle out across two episodes via a shitty cliff-hanger. I guess I'm satisfied with the result - Governor dying and everything going to shit. Hershel's death sucked, and for a second there I thought they'd actually kill off Rick (It's TWD, it's possible). At this point, Judith's fate is a coin flip. February will be interesting to say the least.

I was really hoping for some kind of Carol cameo, but maybe that'll happen in the second half.

#70 Posted by SMTDante89 (2470 posts) -

This is entirely speculation on my part, but I think maybe in the ensuing chaos, Carol may have returned and picked up Judith. The squirrel thing was brought up and dropped almost immediately due to the attack on the prison, and if Carol did that, I would assume she might not have had time to clean her hands of any blood from dissecting the squirrel, thus the bloody baby carriage.

I also want to say that because it doesn't make sense to me to have her character officially promoted as a series regular this season, then have her removed from the show cold turkey. I imagine she'll play a larger role during the second half of the season.

#71 Posted by golguin (3653 posts) -

@onekillwonder_: I'm 99% sure that Judith is dead. There is no other way for a prime time network television show to visually show an infant dying other than showing an empty car seat with some blood on it. Not to mention that in the comic she dies as well. If they cop out and bring her back somehow I'm going to be a bit disappointed...

Really good episode though! Very emotional talking dead segment too with Scott Wilson. I feel bad for Chris Hardwick to have to deal with the loss of his father and then talk about the loss of Hershel with Maggie.

Agreed. There is no way to visually show a dead infant to an American audience. You can't show the body already dead (even parts of it) and you can't see a zombie eating the baby. It's the reason why a single shoe or some childhood object is shown when a kid get's killed in a movie.

I didn't really care about any of the deaths in the episode, but I'm glad they finally got serious. Too many characters seem to have plot shields. It's hard to feel tension when you know certain characters are too TV popular to die.

#72 Posted by ch3burashka (4902 posts) -

This is entirely speculation on my part, but I think maybe in the ensuing chaos, Carol may have returned and picked up Judith. The squirrel thing was brought up and dropped almost immediately due to the attack on the prison, and if Carol did that, I would assume she might not have had time to clean her hands of any blood from dissecting the squirrel, thus the bloody baby carriage.

I also want to say that because it doesn't make sense to me to have her character officially promoted as a series regular this season, then have her removed from the show cold turkey. I imagine she'll play a larger role during the second half of the season.

She may have returned, but I doubt she's the squirrel killer - that one girl was feeding rat heads to zombies, so I assume she's the psychopath. The show has been building her up as such; I assume it'll be a plot point in the next half of the season.

#73 Posted by ZolRoyce (421 posts) -


I was really hoping for some kind of Carol cameo, but maybe that'll happen in the second half.

My guess is that given how scattered the group is now one of them is going to have to run into her at some point, if she is accepting to them or not would be the question, maybe she'll be grateful she dodged a bullet, many bullets literally by not being at the prison when shit went down or super upset that the girls she was looking after were put into trouble.

That was a super awesome mid season ending and I'm glad they didn't wuss out on a cliff hanger, me and my friend were watching together and I kept telling him that "You just know they are going to end with The Governor and Michonne in a room together about to face off and cut to black" but I'm glad I was wrong, so very very wrong.

#74 Edited by Ares42 (2443 posts) -

TWD continues it's tradition of having premieres and finales worth watching while rest of the episodes are pretty mediocre.

#75 Posted by StrainedEyes (1310 posts) -

I don't think Judith is dead. They made too much a deal of the little kids carrying her out, and the two girls coming in guns blazing and then running in the opposite direction from the bus (presumably to go back and get the other kids).

#76 Edited by SunBroZak (838 posts) -

@ch3burashka said:

@smtdante89 said:

This is entirely speculation on my part, but I think maybe in the ensuing chaos, Carol may have returned and picked up Judith. The squirrel thing was brought up and dropped almost immediately due to the attack on the prison, and if Carol did that, I would assume she might not have had time to clean her hands of any blood from dissecting the squirrel, thus the bloody baby carriage.

I also want to say that because it doesn't make sense to me to have her character officially promoted as a series regular this season, then have her removed from the show cold turkey. I imagine she'll play a larger role during the second half of the season.

She may have returned, but I doubt she's the squirrel killer - that one girl was feeding rat heads to zombies, so I assume she's the psychopath. The show has been building her up as such; I assume it'll be a plot point in the next half of the season.

My guess is that the psychopath girl killed the two people, and Carol covered for it. It would explain why they brought up the squirrel thing.

#77 Posted by Feanor (1377 posts) -

It was a fun episode, but this should have been last years finale. It makes the first half of this season feel like a waste.

#78 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4282 posts) -

@onekillwonder_ said:

@kadash299: I'm aware of that, but the show had diverged so wildly from the comics at this point that it's hardly impossible. I feel like if they wanted her dead, you would know and wouldn't keep you guessing. I could be entirely wrong, but I'm still betting she's alive.

I think she's dead. I imagine they didn't show her corpse for the same reason they didn't show Lori's.

#79 Posted by OneKillWonder_ (1594 posts) -

Two things on Judith's status in the show.

One, she wasn't shown in the "In Memoriam" segment of The Taking Dead. Not that that's necessarily official, but I think it's a pretty good indicator that she's probably alive. When discussing Lori's death, they came right out and said she was dead, despite the totally ambiguous scenario in which she died. It just turned out that that scene was very poorly done. Robert Kirkman kind of skirted around the topic of Judith last night and didn't give a solid answer.

Two, there was an interview I saw with Normal Reedus from around the start of the season where he says he 'bonds with little Asskicker' over the course of the season. Nothing like that has been shown yet, implying that there is possibly more to come involving the baby.

I think someone had to have carried her out of there. Along with everyone being separated after the battle, Rick and the audience thinking Judith's dead was the big cliffhanger.

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#80 Posted by TheHT (10274 posts) -

@onekillwonder_: Spoiler: She dies in the Comic books in the prison encounter.

Shes probably really dead

After reading what happened in the comics, I kinda wish they kept Lori around. That would've been some insane Game of Thrones shit to see on screen.

I really didn't think they'd reintroduce and then finish off the Governor storyline in 3 episodes, but hey, closure is closure.

#81 Posted by Sackmanjones (4609 posts) -

Overall I thought the whole governor arc was pretty neat. I give credit to IGN for this but the fact that they essentially made a character fail at redeeming himself is pretty original in itself. Most of the time we see these situations it's the same old "rise from the ashes" redemption plot. It wasn't amazing but entertaining. And ya I gotta say, that was definitely a finale that will bring me back for part 2 of season 4.

The show has kinda tapered off for me. I don't think it's as terrible as most people say, but I tend to no longer give it my undivided attention like I did breaking bad. In it's most basic form, TWD tends to be at least entertaining

#82 Posted by Turtlebird95 (2143 posts) -

@onekillwonder_: Spoiler: She dies in the Comic books in the prison encounter.

Shes probably really dead

She's not. Talking Dead all but confirmed she's alive. Also keep in mind the show is VERY loosely based off the comics.

#83 Edited by wjb (1551 posts) -

I'm still only watching this show because of my unhealthy need to finish every show I start. The last couple of seasons have improved, but this show is still such a drag to me. At least Breaking Bad or Mad Men incorporate some black comedy into the episodes so everything isn't always serious all the time; this show is just dark. There might be a smirk occasionally, but never anything too major to distract us from the nihilism. I know it's the apocalypse and all, but I get the feeling that the only point of the show is to see who's going to die next.

The assault was pretty cool, but I was done with the Governor last season. I was totally fine with him disappearing. This mid-season finale could've happened last season. I usually prefer it when the show moves away from the group to focus on a few characters, but the "redemptive" arc for the Governor was too rushed and not as effective for me. Like, "hey this guy is going to die soon so let's make his exit have little more depth." I wasn't really buying the switch from homicidal maniac to family man in one episode, no matter how much time has passed.

#84 Edited by punkxblaze (2877 posts) -

God I hope they introduce Negan in this show. The governor is a fucking pussy of a villain next to him.

Edit: Also, I'd be willing to bet Daryl and Beth have Judith, hence 'bonding with li'l asskicker'. They have to take care of her 'till they re-unite with Rick.

#85 Posted by PimblyCharles (1105 posts) -

I really liked the first season and it kind of went downhill from there. I've watched every episode up until Season 4 Dec. Finale. Holy shit did that episode return my faith in the show. So many deaths, and so much misery. It was awesome, and so relieving to see the Governor die. Fuck that dude, he almost ruined the show for me last season (3). Anyway, I think that Rick's baby is still alive. I bet one of the girls grabbed her last minute. If they go through with the baby dieing, that would be risky. No body cares for a baby dieing. Right?

It's going to be great to see them out of that damn Prison. Talk about a boring place to have a whole season. Also, Hershel RIP.

#86 Posted by TheHT (10274 posts) -

Also, Hershel RIP.

Hershel's death deserves a shout-out for being particularly awful. Good god man that was brutal.

#87 Posted by PimblyCharles (1105 posts) -

However, Boardwalk Empire has been really good this season.

Boardwalk Empire is a phenomenal show, and I agree this season has been particularly good. It's amazing how much production value there is in it, and the acting is so damn good. If any of you duders haven't watched it yet, definitely give it a go.

#88 Edited by Wrighteous86 (3642 posts) -

@onekillwonder_ said:

@kadash299: I'm aware of that, but the show had diverged so wildly from the comics at this point that it's hardly impossible. I feel like if they wanted her dead, you would know and wouldn't keep you guessing. I could be entirely wrong, but I'm still betting she's alive.

Wouldn't keep you guessing? It's possible that this is just a red herring, but I also can't imagine AMC being any more explicit with a baby being devoured by zombies than a blood stained carrier. There's really nothing more they could show without being too graphic for the network.

And it would be stupid for her to still be alive. I know there was blood everywhere, but how did her car seat get covered in blood then? It would be a lame twist.

#89 Edited by stryker1121 (1237 posts) -

@onekillwonder_ said:

@kadash299: I'm aware of that, but the show had diverged so wildly from the comics at this point that it's hardly impossible. I feel like if they wanted her dead, you would know and wouldn't keep you guessing. I could be entirely wrong, but I'm still betting she's alive.

Wouldn't keep you guessing? It's possible that this is just a red herring, but I also can't imagine AMC being any more explicit with a baby being devoured by zombies than a blood stained carrier. There's really nothing more they could show without being too graphic for the network.

And it would be stupid for her to still be alive. I know there was blood everywhere, but how did her car seat get covered in blood then? It would be a lame twist.

I live by the TV axiom of 'if you don't see the body, the person isn't dead,' but I have to agree that even on a very graphic show like TWD (with a pilot that opened with a little zombie girl getting shot spang in the forehead) they're not going to break the taboo of showing a mutilated baby. And Judith dies in the comics so she may very well be a goner here.

#90 Edited by golguin (3653 posts) -

@wrighteous86 said:

@onekillwonder_ said:

@kadash299: I'm aware of that, but the show had diverged so wildly from the comics at this point that it's hardly impossible. I feel like if they wanted her dead, you would know and wouldn't keep you guessing. I could be entirely wrong, but I'm still betting she's alive.

Wouldn't keep you guessing? It's possible that this is just a red herring, but I also can't imagine AMC being any more explicit with a baby being devoured by zombies than a blood stained carrier. There's really nothing more they could show without being too graphic for the network.

And it would be stupid for her to still be alive. I know there was blood everywhere, but how did her car seat get covered in blood then? It would be a lame twist.

I live by the TV axiom of 'if you don't see the body, the person isn't dead,' but I have to agree that even on a very graphic show like TWD (with a pilot that opened with a little zombie girl getting shot spang in the forehead) they're not going to break the taboo of showing a mutilated baby. And Judith dies in the comics so she may very well be a goner here.

All I'm saying is Judith better be dead. I'm hoping that they're going to play off the fact that the body was never shown and set each episode to focus on a single group. Each week people are going to think "Maybe Judith is with the other group" until it's finally confirmed that no one ninja'd her away and she's really dead.

#91 Posted by Schatzy23 (158 posts) -

Bringing this topic back since the 2nd half of the season started.

I thought the episode was pretty solid. It was a nice episode for the characters to reflect on the events of the prison battle. Yes, I did want to pull my hair out with some of the dumb stuff Carl was doing, but I think if you think about it as a teenager growing up in this world it may not be that far off.

Finally, pour one out for Hershel.

#92 Edited by crithon (2575 posts) -

hey, I stopped watching by early on season 3..... how's the make up work looking? I mean that's important to me. And surprised how good their CG work, I know how people hate CG Blood, I don't care, just thought they did some clever tricks to hide this and that.

#93 Edited by OneKillWonder_ (1594 posts) -

I thought it was a real great episode. Carl certainly got on my nerves even more than usual, but I think that's the point. Once he realized that he's not nearly as strong as he thought he was, that felt like the logical conclusion to that arc and I'm glad they got there so soon. Him breaking down and not being able to shoot Rick when he thought he was dead was pretty powerful. So was Michonne massacring all those zombies.

Also, this episode gave me a real hankering for pudding. I bought some on lunch at work today.

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#94 Posted by golguin (3653 posts) -

Did not enjoy the episode. Carl needs to die already. Why wont he die?

#95 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

I think Sunday's episode is possibly the worst episode I have ever watched.

The characters in this show have the personality of a god damn toilet, Tara is the only breath of fresh air but she can't carry it with dead between the eyes characters like Carl, Lizzie and Carol.

And for fuck's sake, why do the zombies on this show have zero resistance in their flesh and bones? You could poke them and have your finger come out the other side, and everyone having beaming white teeth in the apocalypse is continuing to look retarded. These motherfuckers don't even have access to a sink most of the time.

I'm starting to think a piece of pie could withstand a knife better than the skulls of these walkers.

#96 Posted by OneKillWonder_ (1594 posts) -

@sooty said:

I think Sunday's episode is possibly the worst episode I have ever watched.

The characters in this show have the personality of a god damn toilet, Tara is the only breath of fresh air but she can't carry it with dead between the eyes characters like Carl, Lizzie and Carol.

And for fuck's sake, why do the zombies on this show have zero resistance in their flesh and bones? You could poke them and have your finger come out the other side, and everyone having beaming white teeth in the apocalypse is continuing to look retarded. These motherfuckers don't even have access to a sink most of the time.

I'm starting to think a piece of pie could withstand a knife better than the skulls of these walkers.

You do realize that most of the zombies around now have been rotting for a very long time, right? It's not exactly a huge mystery. That's what happens when matter decays for that long, especially in the sweltering and humid Georgia climate. What makes less sense is that any of them still have the strength to grab and hold onto stronger, faster people who are actually alive.

Anyway, I thought Sunday's episode was pretty damn good. I TOLD you fuckers that Judith was still alive. Though with all that crying she did I almost kind wish she wasn't. Lizzie being a complete and total sociopath was interesting but hardly unexpected. And Michael Cudlitz being cast is one of the best things that could've happened for this show. What a phenomenal actor.

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#97 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@onekillwonder_: I'm still calling bullshit, you could look at a zombie on this show and they'd probably explode

#98 Posted by Clonedzero (3721 posts) -

I still enjoy the show for the most part. I admit i find myself nitpicking things far more in this show than any other.

I'm just SICK of them going into abandoned houses and sneaking around, only to get pounced by a zombie. They even showed earlier in this season that the better idea is to knock on doors and make some noise so they move around. That way you know where they are. But nope, lets creep about like idiots till one jumps at you.

"hmm i wonder if theres a zombie on the other side of this door...instead of knocking on the door to "wake" it up and find out without putting myself in danger....ill just open the door instead...oh god a zombie grabbed me!"

Also i do agree with @sooty the zombies are kinda crazily fragile. I dont really mind the arms breaking all the time and stuff like that. But stabbing them in the skull? The human skull is probably the strongest bone in the human body, i mean sure you could stab through it with a knife but that knife is going to be BUSTED or stuck.

#99 Posted by ch3burashka (4902 posts) -

I don't know how many people still watch TWD. I just came to say that S04E14 is worth watching if only for the song from the Fallout 1 intro that plays during the first scene.

On a related note, that E3 2008 Fallout 3 trailer is probably among the best trailers ever.

#100 Posted by ZolRoyce (421 posts) -

@ch3burashka: That is exactly where my mind went with that episode as well, as soon as it started "Oh the Fallout song!"
It was a pretty great episode, without giving direct spoilers the episode reminded me of how the Telltale games play where they give you an ounce of happiness and then a few minutes later go "Hey, see that happiness we just gave you? Well you can go fuck yourself!" and then they stomp all over it.
And it's wonderful.