#1 Posted by Geralt (316 posts) -

I'm catching up on the E3 press conferences and the BF4 trailer intrigued me. The scene where the squad "jump ship" into the ocean.

Are modern assault rifles waterproof? Googled it and found out that specific models do but not all.

So...I guessed it was a special forces customized thing?

#2 Posted by Brodehouse (9599 posts) -

Dude you can throw a forty year old AK into a volcano, pull it out and it probably still fires.

And yeah, it would be a hell of an amphibious mission if they brought guns that couldn't handle submersion.

#3 Edited by pandorasbox (302 posts) -

In the COD:GHOSTS 30 minute demo, they had an entire sequence where you are shooting people who are underwater while also being underwater. That bothered me way more then anything BF4 did. Pretty sure that bullets lose a ton of their momentum underwater, and become far less lethal. MYTHBUSTERS did an episode on it.

#4 Edited by darkvare (759 posts) -

i'm a 100% sure that you can shoot a glock 9 underwater so i guess some rifles might be usable after being underwater

#5 Posted by Damodar (1302 posts) -

In the COD:GHOSTS 30 minute demo, they had an entire sequence where you are shooting people who are underwater while also being underwater. That bothered me way more then anything BF4 did. Pretty sure that bullets lose a ton of their momentum underwater, and become far less lethal. MYTHBUSTERS did an episode on it.

To be fair, there was some dialogue from the AI squad mate in that sequence saying it'll take more rounds to put the guys down for that very reason. Also, the fish have AI and get out of your way.

#6 Posted by buft (3301 posts) -

In the COD:GHOSTS 30 minute demo, they had an entire sequence where you are shooting people who are underwater while also being underwater. That bothered me way more then anything BF4 did. Pretty sure that bullets lose a ton of their momentum underwater, and become far less lethal. MYTHBUSTERS did an episode on it.

that was an amazing episode, after a foot of water the smaller bullet dispersed all its energy, i was amazed

#7 Posted by charlie_victor_bravo (945 posts) -

I doubt that they can do repeated firing if completely immersed under the water. Submerging AK, pulling out and firing should not be problem.

#8 Posted by alternate (2686 posts) -

It is dirty water clogging up the firing mech that is the problem with modern rifles. You are going to jam firing under water but immersing in clean or salt water should do no damage. The scopes are usually sealed units for this purpose.

#9 Posted by Intro (1206 posts) -

Not an assault rifle, but still awesome.

#10 Posted by HerbieBug (4212 posts) -

I saw a documentary show that tested the durability of the kalashnikov rifle in poor conditions. They soaked it in a muddy puddle for several minutes. Still fired. Drove over it with a jeep. No problem. Nothing beats simple and elegant engineering. :)

#11 Edited by Poppduder (460 posts) -

Most modern rifles can be fired after having a dip in some water. Rifles that don't have problems with their action/ejecting shells underwater typically still jam, and their effective range is probably like 10 feet, but they certainly can fire. I dont think this is a new/spec opsy type thing either, as I'm pretty sure a moist m-16 could fire in the rainforests of Vietnam.

#12 Posted by Scrawnto (2434 posts) -

@geralt: You have to figure that if anyone is going to have the waterproof/resistant version of an assault rifle, it's going to be the Navy or the Marines, right? It would surprise me if they didn't carry such weaponry.

#13 Edited by Nivash (241 posts) -

Yes, in fact pretty much any rifle is "water-proof". Rifles are rather simple yet highly durable mechanical devices after all and as long as you make sure that the gun is free if water you'll be fine. There's a rifle drill for the AR-15 (and the M-16, in turn) for clearing it after it has been submerged for instance. If memory serves me it consists mostly of basic stuff like turning the barrel down and shaking it, working the action and some other stuff to make sure that there's no water left inside that could cause a jam.

Of course, we've gotten to the point now that we can produce firearms that no longer needs that. Case in point, the ACR:

The ACR isn't exactly unique in that respect though, some level of submersability is pretty much bog standard these days. Just make a Youtube search for "assault rifle submersion test" and you'll get tons of hits.

As for firing it underwater, now that's another ballgame entirely. Problem is, ballistics do not work the same way in water as in the air. Supersonic round in particular performs absolutely horribly underwater so as to the point where you might as well try to club the other diver to death with the gun rather than trying to shoot him

Normal guns don't work as intended either. You will get the first shot off without incident thanks to the fact that the firing pin is small enough not to be impeded by the water and because the powder in the round burns fast enough that it won't be extinguished. But the gun won't cycle because the water pressure will keep the bolt from travelling as intended which means that you'll instantly jam and won't get your next round chambered. It should also be pointed out that firing a gun underwater could cause stressing damage. Depending on the gun, it could get even worse - up to and including catastrophic failure.

Of course, there are guns designed specifically to be fired underwater and to the surprise of absolutely no-one the most succesfull concept is Russian:

This is the APS, developed by Vladimir Simonov to provide Soviet divers with a long-distance weapon for underwater combat. It fires custom 5.66x39 mm steel bolts from a 26-round cartridge at fully automatic, with a supposed underwater lethal range between 30 m (at a depth of 5 m) down to 11 m (at a depth of 40 m). It was especially designed around allowing water to leave the barrel to make room for the projectile, one of the biggest issues with firing conventional firearms underwater.

According to the Wiki page it might even be the gun they use in that CoD: Ghost trailer (haven't gotten around to seeing it to confirm that).

#14 Edited by Nivash (241 posts) -

EDIT: Not to spam or anything but I found this video linked in the ACR vid and I'm including it here rightaway because it happens to handily illustrate everything i talked about in my post:

It's a comparative test between the HK416 and an unnamed "competitor" which is based on the AR-15 platform.

- The HK416 handles the same way as the ACR and can be fired immediately after submersion.

- The AR-15 suffers a catastrophic failure where the upper reciever fractures and parts are blown clean off.

The difference is that rifles designed in the last decade or so can take advantage of industrial advancement that allows for much tighter tolerances, better materials and overall a far more durable and reliable weapon which means that "Over the Beach" tests can be done without necessarily having to design the rifle around them.

At the end of the video they also show the HK416 firing "underwater" (although the barrel is still largely above water) that happens to demonstrate another thing I mentioned: even if you can fire the weapon underwater, it won't cycle. If you look closely you'll see the shooter working the action above water to fire off the last shots in the video, meaning it didn't cycle while submerged.