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#1 Edited by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

Threads which I amazingly can't find when I search the forum for either of her names. Would've been nice to have them linked in both thread closing posts by the mods.

So seeing as the first two times this vid of genuine, constructive, reasoned and intelligent criticism about Anita Sarkeesian has been closed down due to not following the Draconian rule set about YouTube spam even when it sparks proper discussion. I will post the video in question again. This time with more than a sentence to maybe spark some discussion.

Pretty well made huh? It gets it's points across calm and rationally without once using a c-word, b-word or any other horrid expletitive which Sarkeesian and her minions in the games press have made it out that anybody who dared take issue with her methods use at least three times per sentence.

I can imagine how being a level headed and intelligent feminist who has to deal with this charlatan becoming the online face of them must begin to feel like how all member of the FGC felt when Patrick, Kotaku and the rest of the games news media made Aris the face of the whole community.

It's like if all wrestling fans had to have this guy be the representative trotted out when it was discussed.

Or how about the My Little Pony fanbase being represented with nothing but this guy

Or better yet, all Sonic fans (Hell video game fans in general, being represented by Christian Weston Chandler)

If she aspires to be THE face of feminism online, she really has to be a lot more informed, a lot more inclusive, a lot more honest and able to take criticism without painting her detractors as immediate mysoginisic villans frothing at the mouth, cause this dog and pony show she's trotted out for years has just been a small series of imo poorly made videos. Now that she's milked the internet for as much sympathy and money as she could muster, she's in a whole different ballpark. Now she has the potential to either completely discredit the point she is trying to make or actually make a change and become the champion of a wave of feminism (A wave that hit quite the stumbling block when a REAL and educated feminist had the balls to question if women "really could have it all" and sparked an amazing debate). Personally, I've found Sarkeesian to be an uninformed annoyance at best with her "exposes" over the years, but with the drama, money and TRIGGER WARNINGS everywhere now, she's under a microscope and we're looking at a possible successor to the KONY guy.

Personally, I am very excited to see what she has to offer, because there is no doubt an issue in video game culture about the role of females that needs to be examined. But if it's gonna be in the vein of her previous video series mized with her hypocritical ways of dealing with anything close to criticism, I see nothing but a huge disservice incoming.

#2 Edited by verysexypotato (207 posts) -

@TeflonBilly: Really? No responses? Well, I mirror this statement almost exactly. I completely agree with the fact that more women in games would be a good thing, as the driving forces behind two of my favorite games ever are women (Kim Swift of Portal and Amy Hennig of Uncharted fame.) But I really don't like the way she handles her exposes when I've been spoiled by videos like Extra Credits. The folk over at the PATV-hosted EC have a wonderful way of exposing and introducing concepts to the laymen, explaining the pros and cons, and finally producing some alternatives to a possible problem. This is all prefaced with the message that they are not perfect, and cannot be considered arbiters of any of these subjects. They are merely here to spark discussion of ideas and solutions. I think Anita does more harm than good in a number of her videos because she employs a brutal sarcasm in an attempt to enlighten the audience. Sarcasm itself assumes a level of understanding in any subject, so it serves little place in trying to teach/win over anyone who doesn't understand or agree with your views. ESPECIALLY when you're on a subject as controversial as "Women's place in games."

I do NOT think she deserved ANY of the harassment she received. I don't think anyone does. Though people who act like jerks in response to her success do prove her point, I think that people use this as a smokescreen for the actual problem some people have with her. She isn't wrong. There aren't enough women in games, and I think the industry would be better off having more. I just think the way she goes about her videos is all kinds of bad.

Duckman knows what I'm talking about.

#3 Posted by Demoskinos (14524 posts) -

@TeflonBilly: Oh god. Those videos you posted are painful to watch.

#4 Posted by Tim_the_Corsair (3065 posts) -

This is one of those cases where the message is good, but the messenger is not.

Really, militants are always the absolute fucking worst, regardless of the topic.

In saying all that, however, I think some of the points she makes are interesting, even if the ways she makes them are poor. The recent ICO situation, for instance, seems a bit daft on the surface, but after careful consideration and looking at the game, the people behind the game, and the Japanese game industry in general (and indeed, aspects of Japanese culture overall - not to say that attitudes towards women are not or have never been poor in other cultures around the world, my own included), there is enough there to be a little troubling and be worth discussing regarding the future of gaming, even if my opinion is that there is nothing misogynistic about the game itself when not looked at in that greater context (a boy protecting a girl is not inherently bad, naturally).

But of course, she then goes and makes sweeping, generalist comments that offend people and ensure intelligent discussion can't happen, and instead it turns into a shitfight on whether ICO was a good and worthwhile game or not (which it was).

#5 Posted by Aronleon (728 posts) -

@Tim_the_Corsair: Indeed, while she does have a lot of points to be made and more importantly points that can be discussed making a general accusation like that takes away from the talk and only generates hate, was this intentional maybe. Generalizing is bad, its never good to assume all the people are the same or think in the same way, I like Mai but I don't think all women should be or are like Mai.

#6 Posted by stryker1121 (1327 posts) -

@Tim_the_Corsair: What has Sarkeesian said about ICO besides that tweet? Can't find a thing about it on her site or anywhere else. I somewhat get where you're coming from, but we need to be careful about throwing words like "misogynistic" out there in connection w/ Sarkeesian b/c as far as I can tell she's said nothing of the sort. She's pointing to the damsel in distress trope, not calling the game misogynistic. Two vastly different things. There was already one thread about this very subject and the poster put "misogyny" in the title. Misinformation spreading about this woman is doing nobody any favors.

#7 Posted by Tim_the_Corsair (3065 posts) -
@stryker1121 I stand corrected.

Made an assumption based upon the reporting about this related to her, as well as what I've seen of her general demeanour when describing things like this, but that assumption was incorrect.

I do stand by my overall comments otherwise, however.
#8 Edited by wjb (1626 posts) -

That actress from Juno and other movies needs to chill out, brah.

EDIT: Also, ZAPPA IS GOD.

#9 Posted by TheVeteran13 (1197 posts) -

I can make up my mind for myself but thanks anyway Anita.

#10 Posted by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

I am so happy that somebody actually bothered to dig up this little thread as I was kinda bummed out it got ignored and my reposting of that post in that other thread will get lost in the ether due to a mod being to lazy to keep it open cause he had to delete three (GASP!) posts.

Again, I am not one of them who feels that this isn't a subject worth discussing. It highly is with the maturation of video games as both an entertainment mediuem and (dare I say it) art form. However, judging by Sarkeesian's earlier work and her horrid attitude around the fallout of her announcement of this project (Which is understandable to some degree when you look at the vile vitriol that has been spouted against it), I feel she is not equipped to do the subject matter the gravitas or professionalism it deserves. As I've said other places, she stands on the precipice of becoming as harmful to the position of a level-headed feminist with salient points as Andrea Dworkin was to that cause with some of the utter nonsense she would spout.

#11 Posted by verysexypotato (207 posts) -

@TeflonBilly: You're welcome. But no, seriously, it was nice to read this (obviously thought out) post and not feel like an ass for thinking she's going at this all wrong. But you mentioned in your earlier writing "(A wave that hit quite the stumbling block when a REAL and educated feminist had the balls to question if women "really could have it all" and sparked an amazing debate.)" Is this in reference to a specific individual sparking intelligent discussion about women in games? I would love to read more points of view on this from a woman in game development.

#12 Edited by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

@verysexypotato: No, it was more of a commentary on a hot topic in the debate of feminsim after this article was published http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/07/why-women-still-cant-have-it-all/309020/ which really put in perspective what exactly the current wave of feminism wants and has accomplished. It sparked a lot of great discussions about the matter and was seen as a rather landmark moment in sofar as someone in their own ranks taking a critical eye of what they've been working for.

I just thought it was an important that one does not just sit around and pat oneself on the back when championing a cause and this article, in my eyes, shed a light on what's been done right AND what has been done wrong.

We must remember that in the battle for an equillibrium between the genders there are certainly bigger things than what the Disney princesses or Lara Croft are doing, not matter what Sarkeesian wants you to believe.

#13 Posted by Animasta (14643 posts) -

@TeflonBilly: I mean really she's as bad as hitler when it comes down to it...

what is the point of this? She hasn't actually put a video out on vidgames. Yes, the other thread was worse about it, but there's still no content to discuss.

Also yes there are bigger problems that require attention but I cannot actually do anything about those problems (nor can most regular people) so it's a moot point anyway~~~

#14 Posted by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@TeflonBilly: I mean really she's as bad as hitler when it comes down to it...

what is the point of this? She hasn't actually put a video out on vidgames. Yes, the other thread was worse about it, but there's still no content to discuss.

Also yes there are bigger problems that require attention but I cannot actually do anything about those problems (nor can most regular people) so it's a moot point anyway~~~

Actually, she is worse than HItler. At least HIS mustache was stylish.

It's funny how someone with such a superficial understanding of gender politics as yourself loves to interject and borderline troll EVERY topic concerning it. I wish I could just brush you off as some high concept parody of a clueless wannabe feminist warrior, but the sad thing is that you are probably a real person with the words you spout being your real thoughts.

#15 Posted by Animasta (14643 posts) -

@TeflonBilly: the fuck did I even say? I said that you should wait until you've actually seen the videos until you start threatening her with bodily violence and comparing her to pol pot or whatever. You're honestly just making yourself look worse with how much effort you're exerting over one woman with a youtube video series.

so yes, I'm some actual person that isn't some reactionary fucktard who doesn't irrationally hate youtube celebrities, call the presses!

#16 Posted by Sergio (2038 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@TeflonBilly: I mean really she's as bad as hitler when it comes down to it...

what is the point of this? She hasn't actually put a video out on vidgames. Yes, the other thread was worse about it, but there's still no content to discuss.

Also yes there are bigger problems that require attention but I cannot actually do anything about those problems (nor can most regular people) so it's a moot point anyway~~~

Why would one need to wait until she puts out a video on videogames? She's put out plenty of videos on other subjects. One can easily view those and come to a conclusion in how she works and what one might expect from this new series. Now, we can all be pleasantly surprised by her actually doing the subject justice, but based on just a few of her tweets about video games and her track record with other subjects, it doesn't look like she will for many people. This isn't just men trying to protect their video games. There are plenty of feminists who think she is terrible, it's just easier to point at guys and conclude it's just a bunch of jerks from the He-man Woman Haters Club.

I wouldn't agree that she's as bad as Hitler, unless she started to round up guys who disagree with her. I would agree with those that say she sets feminism back.

#17 Posted by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

@Animasta: You decided to once again come into a thread and run your mouth about something you obviously don't have the intellectual capacity to wrap your head around (Much like black humour).

Several people point out how you DO act like a reactionary fuckwad and do nothing but post contrarian grabage without merit in any thread that touches upon gender politics. I'm not the one hounding YOU! You're the one who comes in and stirs shit, when I make a reasonable and justified point in expressing my concerns about Sarkeesians ability to actually give this subject the deft hand to portray it well. Something I do NOT see any evidence of from her previous work nor her reactions to any sort of criticism or even that daft ICO tweet that was the case earlier.

I don't have to see the next KONY documentary to know I have little faith in the people behind it after the output they've made earlier. I see no reason why should afford Sarkeesian any more courtesy than them when she has such a vast history of works for me to set my expectations to.

#18 Posted by Hailinel (23698 posts) -

@Sergio said:

@Animasta said:

@TeflonBilly: I mean really she's as bad as hitler when it comes down to it...

what is the point of this? She hasn't actually put a video out on vidgames. Yes, the other thread was worse about it, but there's still no content to discuss.

Also yes there are bigger problems that require attention but I cannot actually do anything about those problems (nor can most regular people) so it's a moot point anyway~~~

Why would one need to wait until she puts out a video on videogames? She's put out plenty of videos on other subjects. One can easily view those and come to a conclusion in how she works and what one might expect from this new series. Now, we can all be pleasantly surprised by her actually doing the subject justice, but based on just a few of her tweets about video games and her track record with other subjects, it doesn't look like she will for many people. This isn't just men trying to protect their video games. There are plenty of feminists who think she is terrible, it's just easier to point at guys and conclude it's just a bunch of jerks from the He-man Woman Haters Club.

I wouldn't agree that she's as bad as Hitler, unless she started to round up guys who disagree with her. I would agree with those that say she sets feminism back.

What Sergio said is very true. We don't need to hear her argument on video games in video form because we know that, in all likelihood, it will be presented in the same tone as her other videos. Regardless of what salient points she might have, she will completely undermine herself through her manner of discourse and no one will be able to take her seriously save for her sycophants.

#19 Edited by Animasta (14643 posts) -

@TeflonBilly: black humor doesn't actually mean just threatening to kill people as a joke you know

I don't give a shit if you hate her views. I really don't! but you literally compared her to al queda. You need to step back and realize that, while she may have terrible views about feminism (in your opinion, obviously), the videos speak for themselves. You do not need to attack her as a person, which you've done time and time again, to do so. This isn't feminism, but merely human decency.

also I think you're putting WAAAAAAY too much stock into the audience her videos reach. I mean, ultimately, her videos are worthless either way; youtube is not a place for far reaching social commentary, whether it's good or bad.

@Hailinel: meh. I think she has good points and she needs to lighten up a bit. Just because you can't take everything a person says seriously does not mean she doesn't make good points (which she does, how many times she does so is up for contention I suppose)

#20 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

This is my last post for awhile, but I felt I needed to air my feelings about this first, before I go: I have a hard time taking her seriously after her video lambasting Bayonetta. Somewhere between just taking every visual cue in the game completely on-the-nose and at face value, and (I believe) confessing she barely played any of the game, I have a hard time thinking she's going to actually raise any necessary discord that this subject probably deserves. She isn't a gamer, and she's an outside person looking at our hobby with a critical eye and being judgmental about it, so I feel she's going to make rash judgements, and probably not even well though out arguments in her defenses. I mean, are we giving out medals now to anybody who can point out all of the obvious details in a videogame and label them, "misogynistic"?

#21 Edited by Animasta (14643 posts) -

@Napalm: wait when did she bring up bayonetta?

also that game is so weird you can make a convincing argument that it's super sexist or one of the more female positive games out there (I lean towards the latter, though I respect the former's viewpoint)

#22 Posted by Hailinel (23698 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@TeflonBilly: black humor doesn't actually mean just threatening to kill people as a joke you know

I don't give a shit if you hate her views. I really don't! but you literally compared her to al queda. You need to step back and realize that, while she may have terrible views about feminism (in your opinion, obviously), the videos speak for themselves. You do not need to attack her as a person, which you've done time and time again, to do so. This isn't feminism, but merely human decency.

also I think you're putting WAAAAAAY too much stock into the audience her videos reach. I mean, ultimately, her videos are worthless either way; youtube is not a place for far reaching social commentary, whether it's good or bad.

@Hailinel: meh. I think she has good points and she needs to lighten up a bit. Just because you can't take everything a person says seriously does not mean she doesn't make good points (which she does, how many times she does so is up for contention I suppose)

As I said before, she may have salient points, but as long as she presents them as she does, very few people will regard her arguments with any seriousness. She's basically ostracized herself because she refuses to engage in civil discourse.

#23 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

@Animasta: In one of her tropes videos a few months back, I think. YouTube it. I never saved it because I saw it once and found it kind of insulting.

#24 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7039 posts) -

Comparing a feminist who goes a bit overboard with her opinions sometimes to terrorists who killed 3000 people and behead women for showing an ankle or having the audacity to get themselves brutally raped (joking of course. Sad that I feel the need to clarify) is fucking bananas and seriously insane hyperbole.

#25 Posted by Animasta (14643 posts) -

@Napalm: that was before she did the whole kickstarter thing though, right? I mean if it wasn't then the point I was making that her videos weren't out yet would've been false and I'm sure OP would've LOVED to prove me wrong. It also depends on how much she played and how well constructed the argument was.

I mean that final dancing scene was fairly sexist even if I do think it wasn't on the whole.

#26 Posted by zungerman090 (311 posts) -

Well, she did say that Lego is sexist, so there is that. Not sure whether I am right or not, but in one video she said that Lego is sexist for not involving female audience and in next five seconds she said that it is sexist for bringing out some more female centric Lego sets. I feel kind of bad about her getting more money than she would reasonably need for her web series, but then again, live and let live, right? I just won't watch any of her videos.

#27 Posted by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

@Animasta: So the Al-Queda and Westboro Baptist Church references I made in the other thread went so far over your head even though I spelled out how I was being HYPERBOLIC by showing how her original message is being borderline perverted by her overzealousness to paintbrush her "enemies" as infidels is a detriment to her cause. Underneath all the horribleness of the actions beneath those two organizations they are working out of a belief that their point of view is correct. I certainly think Sarkeesian' is a lot more correct than theirs', but that's rather here nor there. It's called using a LITERARY DEVICE and not LITERALLY calling someone a suicide bomber.

And maybe I am putting too much stock in who her audience reaches, but am I not justified in having a legitimate worry that she will turn out to be THE FACE of women speaking about women when it comes to games? I mean that is certainly how she is getting propped up. I don't see a more talented, rational and reasonable woman being poised for this. Hence why I posted the videos of the wrestling and My Little Pony dregs. Imagine if they were the lone voices trotted out to be the posterchildren of their subject? Well Sarkeesian is positioning herself as the same thing and if she decides to keep the course of the dreck she's produced so far it's a sad future indeed. She will no longer be a little niche YouTube series, she will be the one who will be called upon to any hack talking head show and dubbed a "video game expert" and that thought frightens me whe I see the way she carries herself.

Her intent and message is something that needs to be discussed, but all points so far has shown that she is FAR from the one who should be the messenger.

#28 Edited by Animasta (14643 posts) -

@TeflonBilly: Did the amazing atheist ever get positioned as the be all end all of atheism on the internet? That's certainly the more relevant comparison, and as far as I know he hasn't and he'll never be. Youtube celebrities rise and fall, just as celebrities do. I mean, who's really propping her up? SRS types and the dark and evil denizens of tumblr? If what you say is accurate and that she's this horrible she harpy and has terrible views, you won't have anything to worry about because calm, rational people will obviously see the flaws in her videos and leave in numbers.

until all of the angry MRA, 4chan and redditors deface her some more and cause the tumblr people to respond back in some angry tornado of internet drama. (has this already happened I can't tell)

(all I'm saying is calm down dang)

#29 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

Everybody should watch both parts of the series posted in the OP. They are extremely enlightening, and pretty much pinpoint what is wrong with her arguments, position, attitude and ethics.

#30 Edited by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

@Animasta: You give "calm, rational people" way too much credit.

The fact that she managed to scam so much money for her Kickstarter is a warning sign already. There are tons of people out there who are ready to be easily mislead by what I fear will be very poor skills at handling the subject matter.

As says, she's an outsider looking to judge. Having already painted Bayonetta as a bad example shows the amount of knowledge she is entering this project with. My original point in the original post is that she's gonna have to step up her game and really rise above the muck she's produced so far to treat this subject as anything else than a superficial slanderous attack on an industry that has real deep seated issues that need to be discussed with care and intelligence and not the sorry excuse for research she's done in the past.

You have a nice point about the Amazing Atheist, that douchebag hasn't managed to escape whatever pit of the internet he is in. But Sarkeesian isn't targeting a tried and true subject like religion vs atheism. She is targeting a burgeoning medium and art form which is still in it's growing pains and negative attacks without any positive outcomes to it may very well stunt it's growth. Imagine if she made some erroneous assertation that Bayonetta was basically porn and some news outlet a la Fox News decided to have a field day with it? Congratulations on setting back the public perception of video games based on faulty research and painting everybody as oogling, drooling, objectifying morons who only wanna gawk at a virtual stripper librarian rather than somebody who appreciates a fantastic battle system set in an imaginative and fantastical world starring a strong, smart and sexy woman who is completely in control of herself.

#31 Edited by verysexypotato (207 posts) -

@TeflonBilly said:

@Animasta said:

@TeflonBilly: I mean really she's as bad as hitler when it comes down to it...

what is the point of this? She hasn't actually put a video out on vidgames. Yes, the other thread was worse about it, but there's still no content to discuss.

Also yes there are bigger problems that require attention but I cannot actually do anything about those problems (nor can most regular people) so it's a moot point anyway~~~

Actually, she is worse than HItler. At least HIS mustache was stylish.

It's funny how someone with such a superficial understanding of gender politics as yourself loves to interject and borderline troll EVERY topic concerning it. I wish I could just brush you off as some high concept parody of a clueless wannabe feminist warrior, but the sad thing is that you are probably a real person with the words you spout being your real thoughts.

Uh oh. Lets keep this civil, boys (or ladies!) I love these discussions and I don't want a mod coming in to find another talk devolve into hissy fits. I appreciate the article link, Teflon. I think Anne-Marie Slaughter is incredible for what she does, thank you for enlightening me.

@Animasta said:

@TeflonBilly: the fuck did I even say? I said that you should wait until you've actually seen the videos until you start threatening her with bodily violence and comparing her to pol pot or whatever. You're honestly just making yourself look worse with how much effort you're exerting over one woman with a youtube video series.

so yes, I'm some actual person that isn't some reactionary fucktard who doesn't irrationally hate youtube celebrities, call the presses!

As for you, young man (or woman) I think this topic can be discussed without getting upset. I do not believe she is Satan incarnate. I do, however, think it is unfortunate that it was her receiving $150k as opposed to someone who can come to this discussion with a more open-minded and welcoming approach. If you want both women to be portrayed with a wider spectrum in games AND want the male game-playing public to accept this change, then perhaps an absolute condemning of their favorite pastime isn't the best opener. If that's how she feels, that's completely fine. However, I feel she wouldn't receive half the criticism if she approached the subject in a more, "You're more than welcome to like what you like, but how about games for the rest of us." kind of vibe.

You get more flies with sugar than you do with vinegar, no?

#32 Posted by Animasta (14643 posts) -

@TeflonBilly: fox news wouldn't run that story anyway because feminism in any way, shape, or form is bad. also, if all of the fallout from the last couple gaming stories from fox news didn't stop it, this certainly wouldn't. It might even make people overly sensitive about this sort of thing and while that wouldn't be great either, it'd be better than what we had before

This kind of feminism stuff she's arguing about DOES live in the dark deep pit of the internet, and this is the ONLY place where it lives. This isn't trying to block one of those bills that defines life on conception which has actual consequences, this is stuff that doesn't really matter. I like arguing stuff like this, but I realize this is a silly thing.

also I really don't think she "conned" a whole lot of money either. I mean, if you wanna argue that people donated because they felt guilty of the shit people were piling on her, fine I'll agree with you but I don't really think that's conning people (that stuff WAS pretty harsh). The people propping her up, I'd argue, knew exactly what her deal was. They're extremists who are blowing back against slights against them, big or small. Does that make them trolls? no, I'd just say that they like to watch the world internet burn. the internet sucks, and they decide that they need to act terrible to meet those terrible people at their own game. I mean it's not like the internet isn't terrible, after all. You can argue that the fervor around Anita was born because people on the internet are fucking terrible and need real world consequences to their internet bullshit. people callin people words, these people get angry, they find someone who appears as indignant as they are... Like her or not, there's a logical progression there.

also gaming doesn't need protection from big bad anita. Like, it's way too firmly entrenched in modern society that this one woman certainly isn't going to impact anything substantial.

#33 Posted by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

@verysexypotato: He he, you are quite correct. Allow me to get my dander down.

I'm glad you enjoyed the article. As the son of a career woman who has very strong beliefs about feminism it was very interesting to read about Anne Marie Slaughter's inner turmoil when it came to her career and family. When I was a kid my mom stepped down from a position where she had to travel from Norway to Amsterdam/Paris once a week due to her job meaning I only saw her during the weekends. After a year she quit, cause it was just too much of a strain and took another job here instead. It was a step down in the corporate hierchy, but one she gladly took.

Now in my late 20s I have female friends who are having children of their own and beginning to feel that they've been sold a lie about "having it all" something that article really put in perspective for a lot of people. And remember Norway has some of the best benefits for both parents to have paternity leaves and government subsidise in the world.

A buddy of mine has taken a leave from work while his wife has returned to working full time so it's not as if we are forced to go back to the patriarchal drudgery of everybody becoming stay-at-home moms again. But having such a well written piece by an intelligent and successful woman really was a breath of fresh air and something I feel has been unsaid for very long due to fear of being called a traitor to teh cause or quite simply being stamped as a misogynist

#34 Posted by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

@Animasta: I am protective against everything I adore. Wether it's Sarkeesian against video games, Phil Mushnick against pro wrestling or 4chan against My Little Pony. Sorry that I have a passion for frivilous things as well as charity work, women's right to choose or the other more important things I should give even more of my time to. That's just my personality.

#35 Posted by Animasta (14643 posts) -

@TeflonBilly: Fox fucking news couldn't fucking harm gaming, what makes you think she can?

#36 Edited by thedj93 (1237 posts) -

@zungerman090 said:

Well, she did say that Lego is sexist, so there is that. Not sure whether I am right or not, but in one video she said that Lego is sexist for not involving female audience and in next five seconds she said that it is sexist for bringing out some more female centric Lego sets. I feel kind of bad about her getting more money than she would reasonably need for her web series, but then again, live and let live, right? I just won't watch any of her videos.

she said the people behind the marketing for lego was sexist. it's a product that could be essentially genderless but all (most) of the playsets are associated with typically male-oriented activities like construction and indiana jones. Lego brought out a marketing ploy to bring girls in and the playsets were somewhat atrocious and garishly pink, that kind of thing.

she was basically asserting that instead of injecting polly pocket bullshit into the lego portfolio they could just sell female heads for the preexisting minifigs (conjecture)

i think she was trying to subvert the false notion that girls need dolls and pink things to have fun and that their imagination would only be active within the confines of a bakery theme or a beauty salon theme or something like that.

but you know take it for what you will

#37 Posted by Sergio (2038 posts) -

I'm less inclined to worry about how she may affect video games, and worry more about the negative affect she may have on feminism. Her diatribe may cause some people to ignore real issues if she's running around like the boy who cried wolf.

#38 Edited by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

@Sergio said:

I'm less inclined to worry about how she may affect video games, and worry more about the negative affect she may have on feminism. Her diatribe may cause some people to ignore real issues if she's running around like the boy who cried wolf.

You sir are way more concise and better at making my point than I am.

She is hurting her case more than helping it with her shoddy and terrible exposes so far and any talk about feminism especially in regards to how we can imrpove gender roles and gender politics in video games are seemingly in for a disservice by her work if her history is anything to go by.

#39 Edited by Animasta (14643 posts) -

@Sergio: There haven't been that many real, really real serious issues about this stuff lately. last one I can remember is that conception bill in the south, and that got plenty of people agitated about it. These people just argue all these silly game things for fun basically, and either they want to help because htey believe in it or they don't want to because it won't be fun. She is not a problem, but she is a symptom of the problem if that makes any sense.

#40 Posted by verysexypotato (207 posts) -

@BraveToaster said:

I implore you to search harder next time; it only took me 2 seconds to find the Sarkeesian threads. Your thread title is right.

http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/general-discussion/30/anita-sarkeesian-and-video-game-censorship/554021/

http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/off-topic/31/genuine-criticism-against-anita-sarkeesian-tropes-vs-women/554030/

Haha, both of these threads are locked and have very little in the way of discussion. Not much use to us here. But I think I've milked both points of view for as much as they have to offer in these "Women in games" threads. I am satisfied for now.

#41 Posted by thedj93 (1237 posts) -

@Sergio said:

I'm less inclined to worry about how she may affect video games, and worry more about the negative affect she may have on feminism. Her diatribe may cause some people to ignore real issues if she's running around like the boy who cried wolf.

a cynical man would say that it's a clever internet marketing scheme to bring in the haters and drum up controversy which could raise awareness in the long term if the series can actually live up to its own hype

#42 Posted by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@Napalm: that was before she did the whole kickstarter thing though, right? I mean if it wasn't then the point I was making that her videos weren't out yet would've been false and I'm sure OP would've LOVED to prove me wrong. It also depends on how much she played and how well constructed the argument was.

I mean that final dancing scene was fairly sexist even if I do think it wasn't on the whole.

Here you go, this is what we can look foward to.

#43 Posted by Hunter5024 (5514 posts) -

I wish people could discuss stuff like this more civilly. It's no wonder the other thread got locked. Kinda lookin at you @TeflonBilly

Anyways Anita Sarkeesian isn't as bad as some people make her out to be. I watched a ton of her videos yesterday after the other thread, and she did make a valid point or two every so often. Just as often she had her head planted firmly up her ass though. All that evidence against her referencing her college research paper was pretty dumb. Every paper I've had to write had to bend to a strict format, and I think a lot of the criticisms against it may have been a symptom of that. I'm looking forward to the video series personally, most notably the one about positive female role models.

#44 Posted by Animasta (14643 posts) -

@TeflonBilly: dude, just accept that she's a horrible person or fucking whatever and move on, you aren't convincing me of anything. I am fully aware she's not the one true knight of feminism, she has her bad points and good points (and good and bad videos), and she should probably tone it down some (though this would lose her her tumblr audience most likely, those fuckers are vicious). What I'm saying is that you put too much stock into her and her audience, and this is why she has the fanbase she has; because people, terrible people or not, respond to her with vicious vicious words. Say, comparing her to a radical terrorist organization that has killed many people, let's say. These people are responded to by either oversensitive (on purpose or not) people, or just people that accept she has some good points and that people shouldn't call her a cunt or make up games where you bruise her face.

if she is as manipulative as you say, you are playing right into her bullshit. I disagree with this assertion, of course, but... what exactly are you trying to gain by bagging on her in this manner? The best response to trolls is to walk away, after all.

#45 Posted by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

@Animasta: What reason? Cause we deserve better! Isn't that a good enough reason?

#46 Posted by Sergio (2038 posts) -

@thedj93 said:

@Sergio said:

I'm less inclined to worry about how she may affect video games, and worry more about the negative affect she may have on feminism. Her diatribe may cause some people to ignore real issues if she's running around like the boy who cried wolf.

a cynical man would say that it's a clever internet marketing scheme to bring in the haters and drum up controversy which could raise awareness in the long term if the series can actually live up to its own hype

The likelihood of this is dubious to some given her track record. I highly doubt these past year(s) she's spent her time making questionable material to anger people to watch her intended masterpiece about video games. It's more likely that if she actually produces at least one good video in this series that she's already lost some who might have welcomed it.

#47 Posted by Animasta (14643 posts) -

tell me how shitting on her will make someone better come along? why would they? someone already tried and they were ridiculed! gosh golly G that certainly doesn't sound fun.

I mean either that or you wait until she makes a sex tape with a banana but lightning doesn't strike twice.

#48 Posted by GaspoweR (2755 posts) -

Man all these uses of the word cunt just remind me of Vinny saying it in the bombcast, the song and music video that came out of that, and the film, Bronson.

#49 Posted by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

@Animasta said:

tell me how shitting on her will make someone better come along? why would they? someone already tried and they were ridiculed! gosh golly G that certainly doesn't sound fun.

I mean either that or you wait until she makes a sex tape with a banana but lightning doesn't strike twice.

This discussion is just devolving into idiocy now. Next thing you know I'll be telling you that I constantly shit on George Lucas cause I know that anybody else could handle the Star Wars franchise with more care.

Honestly, I think my original post speaks for itself and makes the point I wanted to make. I'm through with clogging up this thread arguing with you ad hominem.

#50 Edited by verysexypotato (207 posts) -