- Okay so I know that this is a touchy subject with a lot of people and in no way to I intend any form of hatred, judgement, or any negativity whatsoever towards anyone or their beliefs. I just wanted to have an honest, open conversation about people's beliefs regarding religion. Before people begin posting and before I give my opinion, I would like to ask anyone who does post to please keep it clean and civil. This doesn't need to turn into some kind of hate thread or anything like that.
- Anyways, as for me, I personally believe that religion is for lack of a better term "made up". I personally don't believe in a God or some all mighty being who created the earth and the heavens or whatever idea or being your religion worships. I believe that everything can be and for the most part has been explained by science and logical reasoning. Now when I say that I think religion is "made up", what I mean is that I feel religion was created by man many years ago as a way to give people who let's say, had no where else to turn. They for whatever reason could not live with themselves the way that they were so the turned to religion as a way of giving them hope. I feel that by people praying and worshiping a higher power, they are taking the stresses and hardships of real life and placing them on the shoulders of a fictional being so as to ease their own mind and spirit. In some ways, I look at religion as a cowards way out in that the people can't deal and don't want to deal with the problems in their life so they throw them to God and basically expect him/her/it to solve their problems for them.
- Another reason I personally don't believe in religion and God is because people tend to view God as this compassionate and understanding figure who looks out for you and will make everything okay. If such a compassionate and understanding all powerful being exists, why does he let things like death, rape, murder, poverty, abuse, racism, sexism, apartheid, genocide, war, and every other conceivable negative thing exist? Why would this being of acceptance, forgiveness, and generosity allow for the human race to be subject to these tortures? To make us stronger as a creature? That doesn't seem like the most effective way of doing it to me. To me, those atrocities only bring out more negativity and negative actions and are holding us back as a species from evolving and growing stronger. And it also always seems the the "bad" stuff always happens to the innocent and good people where as the people who we would classify as bad seem to live happily and without penalty.
- Anyways, that's my two cents on the topic. Like I said, I don't mean to offend or hurt anyone or their beliefs as we are each entitled to our own opinions. I would love to hear what my fellow GB users have to say on this subject
What's your take on religion?
I don't think about it.
I respect everyone Else's religious beliefs (as long as they're not racist/homophobic/etc.) but I have no religious preference myself. I do believe in the possibility of a god, but it doesn't affect the way I live or think at all.
You can believe whatever you want, as long as you don't try to shove your beliefs down my throat, and as long as you don't make fun of others its cool.
Wrong way
@Zombie_Shakespeare said:
" The world's oldest and silliest safety blanket. "Right way
@IBurningStar said:
" Eh, you can believe whatever you want. Just don't come talk to me about it. "
Agnostic. I believe in the possibility of God and respect Religion but I don't respect aspects of Religions that further the hatred or mistreatment of groups such as women or homosexuals or other races.
Religion is super interesting. Human culture would be really boring without it.
I don't personally give a shit, but I'm glad it exists.
" Religion is super interesting. Human culture would be really boring without it. I don't personally give a shit, but I'm glad it exists. "You make a good point.
The Bible is pretty great if you look at it as just a piece of literature.
" @McGhee_the_Insomniac: i believe there is something beyond our material existence, some cosmic consciousness of some kind, but i won't believe in anything any human will tell. "That sounds like pantheism to me, but whatever. You can call yourself whatever you want. :P
I have no problem with it,As long as a person isn't preachy.I could care less what religion they follow.
Also I was raised into a Catholic family but never really followed it so I guess I'm atheist.
"Religion is the opium of the people" It is not as interesting as it is necessary to keep the order, do you think people would suffer like this and still cope if they didn't expect some heavenly reward or feared a greater punishment?" Religion is super interesting. Human culture would be really boring without it. I don't personally give a shit, but I'm glad it exists. "
This is a thread about our opinions on religion." You can believe whatever you want, as long as you don't try to shove your beliefs down my throat, and as long as you don't make fun of others its cool.
Wrong way
@Zombie_Shakespeare said:" The world's oldest and silliest safety blanket. "Right way
@IBurningStar said:" Eh, you can believe whatever you want. Just don't come talk to me about it. ""
I don't go to churches and mock people coming out of the door, but if someone asks, I'm not going to lie to protect their feelings.
I think you should define "religion," or at least try to if you intend on fostering a civil discussion about it. In your post, you seem to have established religion as merely a form of "coping mechanism" or explanatory framework in opposition to logic/reason/science etc. Although I don't doubt that religion (and religious texts) have been and continue to be used to such capacities, I'd argue that religion or religious belief as I understand it pertains as much to the purpose of existence as it does the nature of existence. I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I think you should lay out some parametres here.
Well, lets use videogames to help me try and give a point of perspective. If a programmer makes a world that lacks a most of the systems that applies to our world but does create a fairly intelligent A.I system, that can evolve, at this point we are dealing with a creator-sentient being situation we are in now. To the A.I, who argue of the non-existence of the creator, they may use some of the logic of the world to dispute the very existance of the creator. But that would be preposterous, because the programmer clearly programmed that code. It didn't just spontaneously adjust its own settings to create new engines for physics and what not. If it did, then that would be the work of the programmer to do so. Even if single word of what "scientists" say is true, that only means the things they found were true, not that the program programmed itself into existance, and all the systems and expanding harddrive space is spontaneously that way. And that also means that the all the logic and concepts that the A.I understands, is already known by the programmer and then some, i.e. concepts that were never programmed into the world. Science can not predict the existance of god, because all of science studies what God created.
God is not some guy who is only as intelligent as the ppl who first wrote the books. They did not have the level of knowledge to understand the science we have now. In a sense, it would HAVE to be dumbed down for them. The first words ever spoken to Prophet Muhammed was "read". There is a huge emphasis on knowledge in the Quran. To learn and explore the world for its knowledge. God, according to that book, want ppl to always use there time to not to be idle(not for the catholic reason either) because on the day u die, you will be asked what u accomplished with wat u were given. Would u not say that saying that you discovered the laws of physics (which would forever benefit man) be looking good on ur record. Of course its not JUST about if u were bad or good in life.
To tie this back to the example, lets say that the programmer tried to make the games that run on a ps3 on a nintendo (O.G). The level of code and amount of stuff involved is too much for the nes to handle. Or if the programmer coded in Cobalt ( i think thats a dead language and assuming it does not have objects), and tried to involve object oriented programming in that. It would not work out for him. Object oriented programming would only be possible in newer languages(i.e. our new age science). And so the programmer would have to make the closest equivalent that could work in the language. so i.e. the concept of genetic code. the concept of nuclear physics(protons, neutrons, electrons). the very fact that there is an invisible substance in the air made of multiple objects. Back then they most likely thought that Light was projected from there eyes in the day time and that was how they saw.
Finally, the reason why this world has all those sucky things, is bc its a test. I know it sounds lame. But think about it, are test EVER a fun thing to do? The point is, if u suffer here, u will be repaid in the afterlife(good grade, for lack of a better word). And saying that they are cowards is too much. Do have any idea what some ppl go thru on a day to day basis?? I assume u are like me. Living in a lower to higher middle class lifestyle in a western country. If a person needs rely on something to keep them from going crazy, let them, u do realize most of the world lives in poverty?
So i choose to believe there is a god, because there is almost no way for a scientist to prove that god doesnt exist. There is no instrument of knowledge that can go past that computer screen and touch the face of the programmer. The matter we A.I are made of are totally different from his. And the fact is that he has true power to adjust anything and monitor anything. I would love to see someone create an A.I for this purpose, to see if the A.I decide there is a programmer or not.
We live in one of, if not the, most technological advanced countries the world has ever seen. So when people tell me, as if Christianity is new to America, that the Christians are trying to halt scientific progress, I get confused. Science has brought many great things to humanity, but it also has been used in twisted and destructive ways. It is susceptible to the same flaws people point out with religion.
I say believe in what you want, but be sure in it. Doubt has never been a bad thing.
" @LordXavierBritish said:Full of plotholes and inconsistencies. Yep, that's amazing." Religion is super interesting. Human culture would be really boring without it. I don't personally give a shit, but I'm glad it exists. "You make a good point. The Bible is pretty great if you look at it as just a piece of literature. "
Hmm. As far as the institution of religion, i despise it. It seems that those who cannot stand on their own feet gravitate toward religion for stability, direction and whatever else. People's world views are a different matter.
" @FancySoapsMan said:That would be a problem in a novel maybe." @LordXavierBritish said:Full of plotholes and inconsistencies. Yep, that's amazing. "" Religion is super interesting. Human culture would be really boring without it. I don't personally give a shit, but I'm glad it exists. "You make a good point. The Bible is pretty great if you look at it as just a piece of literature. "
I don't see how it detracts from the Bible's quality though.
Personally I find the belief in god a strange one to hold. But whatever, people can believe what they want.
@super2j: The teleological argument is not a very convincing one. You're right on with one specific point that "there's no way to disprove a god" Fair enough, but the conclusion you draw from this doesn't follow. You lack evidence, therefore you ought to suspend judgement (which is what most atheists do) a suspensions of judgement about the existence of god in this case means you operate as if god doesn't exist.
""
- Okay so I know that this is a touchy subject with a lot of people and in no way to I intend any form of hatred, judgement, or any negativity whatsoever towards anyone or their beliefs. I just wanted to have an honest, open conversation about people's beliefs regarding religion. Before people begin posting and before I give my opinion, I would like to ask anyone who does post to please keep it clean and civil. This doesn't need to turn into some kind of hate thread or anything like that.
- Anyways, as for me, I personally believe that religion is for lack of a better term "made up". I personally don't believe in a God or some all mighty being who created the earth and the heavens or whatever idea or being your religion worships. I believe that everything can be and for the most part has been explained by science and logical reasoning. Now when I say that I think religion is "made up", what I mean is that I feel religion was created by man many years ago as a way to give people who let's say, had no where else to turn. They for whatever reason could not live with themselves the way that they were so the turned to religion as a way of giving them hope. I feel that by people praying and worshiping a higher power, they are taking the stresses and hardships of real life and placing them on the shoulders of a fictional being so as to ease their own mind and spirit. In some ways, I look at religion as a cowards way out in that the people can't deal and don't want to deal with the problems in their life so they throw them to God and basically expect him/her/it to solve their problems for them.
- Another reason I personally don't believe in religion and God is because people tend to view God as this compassionate and understanding figure who looks out for you and will make everything okay. If such a compassionate and understanding all powerful being exists, why does he let things like death, rape, murder, poverty, abuse, racism, sexism, apartheid, genocide, war, and every other conceivable negative thing exist? Why would this being of acceptance, forgiveness, and generosity allow for the human race to be subject to these tortures? To make us stronger as a creature? That doesn't seem like the most effective way of doing it to me. To me, those atrocities only bring out more negativity and negative actions and are holding us back as a species from evolving and growing stronger. And it also always seems the the "bad" stuff always happens to the innocent and good people where as the people who we would classify as bad seem to live happily and without penalty.
- Anyways, that's my two cents on the topic. Like I said, I don't mean to offend or hurt anyone or their beliefs as we are each entitled to our own opinions. I would love to hear what my fellow GB users have to say on this subject
You seem to look at individuals who practice religion as those who want answers and use religion as a way to get those answers. That disregards a lot of people who follow a religion for a number of different reasons. Many are 'born' in to it through their family and see it as being as real as anything else you would consider real. Many 'marry' in to it and follow the religion because of their spouse. I'm not sure you even considered those who really do believe in a God and believe that following certain traditions honors that God. These people aren't looking for answers. They are following a lifestyle that they believe is the best for them or best represents their beliefs and who they are.
The view you've chosen for religion looks an awful lot like the many opinions I've heard regarding Christianity and its many forms. What would you say to traditionalist Native American spiritual belief systems? Would you're view of religion and God be different for them? What about all of the other spiritual beliefs from all of the other different cultures out there?
You also seem to believe science has given us indisputable truths. There are no such things as truths in science. There are works in progress. Nothing is ever set in stone in science. Everything is constantly changing, growing and evolving, and being discarded. To my knowledge, there has never been any scientific theory that has ever suggested that God isn't real or that religious beliefs and religious traditions are somehow wrong. Not even with the theory of evolution and in all the ways that that theory has grown has there been a claim that God doesn't exist. Rather, that theory provides an alternative to how all of the animals on this planet came to be how we see them them currently and what they once were.
I don't mean to pick on you. All you did was provide an opinion and that is fine. But I just want to provide you different ways to look at the subject.
" @Pinworm45 said:Because people base their entire lives around something that is so clearly wrong and incorrect? Pretty terrible. I was also refering to it's quality as a piece of literature, so how you can say that's a problem for a novel but not the bible makes no sense at all." @FancySoapsMan said:That would be a problem in a novel maybe. I don't see how it detracts from the Bible's quality though. "" @LordXavierBritish said:Full of plotholes and inconsistencies. Yep, that's amazing. "" Religion is super interesting. Human culture would be really boring without it. I don't personally give a shit, but I'm glad it exists. "You make a good point. The Bible is pretty great if you look at it as just a piece of literature. "
Just so you could see my thoughts.
I am Catholic, but I have a lot of respect for one William James, author of The Varieties of Religious Experience. In this, James describes a thing called Pragmatism, which basically means that the actual TRUTH to religion is completely irrelevant; if the beliefs of a person make a difference in that person's life, then it can be considered a profound religious experience that works for them, which is good. That whole book has a ton of really fantastic, unbiased religious analysis from a philosophical standpoint.
" I am Catholic, but I have a lot of respect for one William James, author of The Varieties of Religious Experience. In this, James describes a thing called Pragmatism, which basically means that the actual TRUTH to religion is completely irrelevant; if the beliefs of a person make a difference in that person's life, then it can be considered a profound religious experience that works for them, which is good. That whole book has a ton of really fantastic, unbiased religious analysis from a philosophical standpoint. "Exactly. I'm pretty sure the Garden of Eden didn't exist, but I still think it can be relevant. I think, regardless of historical evidence, that we could learn from the Gospels.
And it doesn't matter what other people think, because this is what matters to me.
If you want to believe, you have the right to, but please, leave it at that. Trying to justify it with poorly thought out arguments does nothing.
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment