Who Won the 2nd Presidential Debate?

@eccentrix said:

@Jams said:

@Animasta said:

@astrotriforce: I will never understand the conservative mindset I swear

That's the real problem isn't it? People can't stand to put themselves in other people shoes and even try to consider another persons mindset. By the way, that's not really a passive aggressive comment towards you, but to all people who can't even fathom to play the devils advocate.

I try to think about it, but the only lead I have to go on is "Let's be evil for the sake of it." I guess there's some religious motives, but if you're wanting to separate church and state, or at least pretending to want to, I don't think they're worth considering.

I'm not trying to get into an argument or anything, I just want to put my hat in as someone who doesn't understand it, even though I have tried.

Don't take this personally, because most seem to make this error, but if you claim to try to understand the other side, when the heck would you start with the the idea that they are evil? You're trying to rationalize evil. Of course its not gonna work. Assume positive intent, that conservatives actually do want the best for the country and believe their policies are the best for the country, and go again.

@eccentrix said:

@Jams said:

@Animasta said:

@astrotriforce: I will never understand the conservative mindset I swear

That's the real problem isn't it? People can't stand to put themselves in other people shoes and even try to consider another persons mindset. By the way, that's not really a passive aggressive comment towards you, but to all people who can't even fathom to play the devils advocate.

I try to think about it, but the only lead I have to go on is "Let's be evil for the sake of it." I guess there's some religious motives, but if you're wanting to separate church and state, or at least pretending to want to, I don't think they're worth considering.

I'm not trying to get into an argument or anything, I just want to put my hat in as someone who doesn't understand it, even though I have tried.

What evils do you speak of?

@Jams said:

@eccentrix said:

@Jams said:

@Animasta said:

@astrotriforce: I will never understand the conservative mindset I swear

That's the real problem isn't it? People can't stand to put themselves in other people shoes and even try to consider another persons mindset. By the way, that's not really a passive aggressive comment towards you, but to all people who can't even fathom to play the devils advocate.

I try to think about it, but the only lead I have to go on is "Let's be evil for the sake of it." I guess there's some religious motives, but if you're wanting to separate church and state, or at least pretending to want to, I don't think they're worth considering.

I'm not trying to get into an argument or anything, I just want to put my hat in as someone who doesn't understand it, even though I have tried.

I just tried 100 different ways to explain and failed on every one. It's something I can't explain in words unfortunately.

No one is evil for the sake of it unless they are TRULY evil (murderer or whatnot). A person's viewpoints are their viewpoints and their opinion and are shaped by many different factors. This generation's tendency to toss crap like that out about others is sad. And will lead to our downfall as others only see those who they disagree with with hateful eyes. When the Bible says to do the opposite, "Pray for those who persecute you." Don't wish for them to die.

@astrotriforce said:

@Jams said:

@eccentrix said:

@Jams said:

@Animasta said:

@astrotriforce: I will never understand the conservative mindset I swear

That's the real problem isn't it? People can't stand to put themselves in other people shoes and even try to consider another persons mindset. By the way, that's not really a passive aggressive comment towards you, but to all people who can't even fathom to play the devils advocate.

I try to think about it, but the only lead I have to go on is "Let's be evil for the sake of it." I guess there's some religious motives, but if you're wanting to separate church and state, or at least pretending to want to, I don't think they're worth considering.

I'm not trying to get into an argument or anything, I just want to put my hat in as someone who doesn't understand it, even though I have tried.

I just tried 100 different ways to explain and failed on every one. It's something I can't explain in words unfortunately.

No one is evil for the sake of it unless they are TRULY evil (murderer or whatnot). A person's viewpoints are their viewpoints and their opinion and are shaped by many different factors. This generation's tendency to toss crap like that out about others is sad. And will lead to our downfall as others only see those who they disagree with with hateful eyes. When the Bible says to do the opposite, "Pray for those who persecute you." Don't wish for them to die.

To our eyes, many conservative viewpoints seem evil for the sake of being evil; laws that define life on conception or w/e and then cutting social programs so that mom doesn't have any way to support that new baby, for example (or sending them to an already overful adoption agency)

also Deuteronomy

@Jams said:

The transcript shows he just mentions "acts of terror". But if he called it a terrorist attack then why did he have to say that it was still being investigated and blame a video? Obama and Candy corn were both wrong on that.

Because terrorists and people who are angry about videos are not mutually exclusive categories. Reacting to something you don't like with deadly violence pretty much defines terrorism.

@astrotriforce said:

@TruthTellah: Do you HONESTLY think it would make a difference? That people would vote "Romney won by a little" instead of "Obama won by a lot?" I don't think so considering the make-up of the partisanship. But point well taken, I'll change the format for the next debate poll to include your options.

When given just two choices, people will tend to just pick whoever they support the most. When the question is "Who won the debate?" and not "Who do you support after the debate?", the issue of -how much- someone won or lost is the best you're going to get from a group that isn't a varied selection of the electorate.

People may not necessarily switch from "Obama won by a lot" to "Romney won by a little", but many will go from "Obama won by a lot" to "Obama won by a little" or vice versa. And, in a recent example, someone might have liked President Obama in the first debate, but many would have still admitted that Romney won by a little. That is useful information. And after getting that information, you can still look at the total percentage for "a lot" and "a little" if you want an indication of how many Democratic supporters voted in the poll. But as far as useful information on a debate performance, people's feelings on how much either side won is far more telling than just how many on either side choose to vote in the poll.

@SlightConfuse: oh god it's patrick bateman

CNN post-debate poll has Obama topping Romney with Obama: 46% Romney: 39%

A win but not a huge one. Is it enough to halt Romney's momentum?

@SlightConfuse: And you can find a million pics like that of either guy. Mockers will mock.

@Animasta said:

@astrotriforce: I will never understand the conservative mindset I swear

As a Canadian, I love The West Wing...

@Milkman said:

@SlightConfuse: I may be wrong but I think that's one of Romney's sons.

Yep, that looks like Josh Romney.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jpmoore/the-romney-sons-a-guide

@Vampir: I agree. But a "terrorist attack" indicates a singular act by an organization. It's different than lots of acts of terror as in a mob-scene. And everyone already knows this. Which is why I think Romney won on substance. Style? Not so much.

@Animasta: I can't believe that Bryce prefers Van Patten's card... to mine.

@Animasta said:

this time we should just move it here and lock the other topic

also

if you voted for romney you are selectively hearing something fierce, romney fumbled on the most softballiest of softballs with Libya.

also binders full of women

who wouldn't want binders full of women no wonder he's winning the male vote

@Animasta: And the reverse is true from our side. So your gonna kill a future human being just because you want to make that choice. What right do you have to make that choice? So the being you are killing has no right? Even so I do not call those pro-choice people "evil", I just fundamentally disagree with killing unborn babies and can't fathom how someone can do so and consider it a correct policy. Thankfully as young adults become parents, we've seen the pro-life movement overtake the pro-choice movement. I think everyone has a young woman they know or a teen mother who regrets killing their baby. I know one who can no longer go to baby showers because she cries every time knowing that she could've had what all the other mothers have. Last time she went to one she sat in the kitchen alone through the whole thing. The weight they carry with them for the rest of their life for their choice to choose abortion is often devastating and as Barack Obama or say Dave Pelzer ("A Child Called It" author) proves you can come from the most broken of families and worst of circumstances and rise up to the highest of achievements.

@Turambar said:

@Milkman said:

@SlightConfuse: I may be wrong but I think that's one of Romney's sons.

Yep, that looks like Josh Romney.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jpmoore/the-romney-sons-a-guide

No, no, I think that's Tugg Romney, the best of the Romney sons.

heh.

Now, come on, everyone. Let's not bog down a silly debate poll with such a lofty topic as "why do views different from my own appear evil". That's a much bigger topic than this one poll and our feelings on how well each candidate did in swaying undecided voters who tuned in.

Please, let's lighten up a bit, enjoy the good duders here, and get back on topic.

@Animasta said:

this time we should just move it here and lock the other topic

also

if you voted for romney you are selectively hearing something fierce, romney fumbled on the most softballiest of softballs with Libya.

also binders full of women

who wouldn't want binders full of women no wonder he's winning the male vote

@SlightConfuse said:

top row guy giving obama the death stare

He looks like a Romulan.

@TruthTellah: And to this point, just explaining the Conservative position on abortion and why each side can call each side evil, not looking for a debate on the topic.

@Animasta: I will never see the Liberal or conservative view point. I usually vote for whoever is going to do the best job.

@astrotriforce said:

@Animasta: And the reverse is true from our side. So your gonna kill a future human being just because you want to make that choice. What right do you have to make that choice? So the being you are killing has no right? Even so I do not call those pro-choice people "evil", I just fundamentally disagree with killing unborn babies and can't fathom how someone can do so and consider it a correct policy. Thankfully as young adults become parents, we've seen the pro-life movement overtake the pro-choice movement. I think everyone has a young woman they know or a teen mother who regrets killing their baby. I know one who can no longer go to baby showers because she cries every time knowing that she could've had what all the other mothers have. Last time she went to one she sat in the kitchen alone through the whole thing. The weight they carry with them for the rest of their life for their choice to choose abortion is often devastating and as Barack Obama or say Dave Pelzer ("A Child Called It" author) proves you can come from the most broken of families and worst of circumstances and rise up to the highest of achievements.

The central problem though is you're talking on a completely different topic from @Animasta. Do you believe the government should be the entity that makes this decision? That's the core question. Forget it being right or wrong. It's never been an issue of right or wrong, because that has no answer. It's a question of legal or not.

@Animasta: I will never see the Liberal or conservative view point. I usually vote for whoever is going to do the best job.

@Animasta said:

@astrotriforce said:

@Animasta: At least I've never used a curse word when referring to President Obama. I don't stoop that low.

who gives a shit? Obama fucking sucks and Romney fucking sucks three times as hard. they're both terrible, but one (romney) would ruin the country while the other (obama) would not. The president is just some dude, if you are abstaining from cursing the president (or a president hopeful) and not abstaining from it in your daily life you are being extremely hypocritical

This. While I usually disagree with Animasta on many things, at least Obama's policies halted our economic free-fall. The recovery has been marginal at best, but it is recovery. The country hasn't gotten any worse under the Obama administration, and considering the monumental shit fest that was handed to him I'd like to think that our current President has more than proven his competency.

@astrotriforce: Um, that woman totally can have another baby it's not like the abortionist ties her tubes up.

Who cares?

Obama is gonna win anyway. No way America will hire a mormon.

@Doctorchimp: That's pretty bigoted. Explain your problem with my religion.

@Subjugation said:

@Doctorchimp: That's pretty bigoted. Explain your problem with my religion.

That's pretty ignorant.

Explain where I said I have a problem with mormons.

@Subjugation said:

@Doctorchimp: That's pretty bigoted. Explain your problem with my religion.

No it wasn't.

Edit: This. This is what I hate about modern discussion. You can't say anything in a political discussion without cries of bigotry, misogyny, racism, etc.

@Turambar said:

@eccentrix said:

@Jams said:

@Animasta said:

@astrotriforce: I will never understand the conservative mindset I swear

That's the real problem isn't it? People can't stand to put themselves in other people shoes and even try to consider another persons mindset. By the way, that's not really a passive aggressive comment towards you, but to all people who can't even fathom to play the devils advocate.

I try to think about it, but the only lead I have to go on is "Let's be evil for the sake of it." I guess there's some religious motives, but if you're wanting to separate church and state, or at least pretending to want to, I don't think they're worth considering.

I'm not trying to get into an argument or anything, I just want to put my hat in as someone who doesn't understand it, even though I have tried.

Don't take this personally, because most seem to make this error, but if you claim to try to understand the other side, when the heck would you start with the the idea that they are evil? You're trying to rationalize evil. Of course its not gonna work. Assume positive intent, that conservatives actually do want the best for the country and believe their policies are the best for the country, and go again.

@ManMadeGod I'll just use the gay marriage thing as an easy example, since that what I see discussed most. Taking religion out of the equation, you're left with the most common arguments of gay marriage being bad for the kids or that gay marriage shouldn't exist because it's unnatural. Unless you can back these up with hard evidence which you can honestly believe yourself, you're just taking away people's rights for no solid reason, which I think is an evil thing to do.

These are just my observations as someone with a casual interest. I haven't read any studies on gay marriage, I'm not eligible to vote in the US and I wouldn't vote for either party if I was.

It's really a shame to see so many of you guys are so wrapped up in your parties mindset that you aren't even looking at the other candidate for any reason other than to criticize. It's like you knew who you were voting for before you ever even knew their names. The idea that conservatives or liberals or whoever are evil, actually evil, the phrase we use to describe rapists, murderers, and dictators, just because they don't share the same opinions as you is one of the most asinine assertions I've seen anybody make.

@Hunter5024 said:

It's really a shame to see so many of you guys are so wrapped up in your parties mindset that you aren't even looking at the other candidate for any reason other than to criticize. It's like you knew who you were voting for before you ever even knew their names. The idea that conservatives or liberals or whoever are evil, actually evil, the phrase we use to describe rapists, murderers, and dictators, just because they don't share the same opinions as you is one of the most asinine assertions I've seen anybody make.

denying rights to people because they love someone of the same gender isn't really a thing a good person would do (not that all republicans do that, but the modern republican party is such that no one would admit to thinking that's a good idea except log cabin republicans)

could any1 really explain to me what Romney's plan for the economy is and Obama's 2 cause they seem to have an incomplete one?

@Hunter5024 said:

It's really a shame to see so many of you guys are so wrapped up in your parties mindset that you aren't even looking at the other candidate for any reason other than to criticize. It's like you knew who you were voting for before you ever even knew their names. The idea that conservatives or liberals or whoever are evil, actually evil, the phrase we use to describe rapists, murderers, and dictators, just because they don't share the same opinions as you is one of the most asinine assertions I've seen anybody make.

I think I was the one to bring up the word 'evil', so I'll explain that I wasn't saying I think anyone's beliefs are evil, but the things some people will do because of those beliefs are. Evil acts vs evil thoughts.

Btw in case you missed it, CNN has now backtracked on the Libya issue, saying Candy was wrong to correct Romney. And that her and Obama were wrong on the issue. The damage may already be done on how it was perceived as to who won on a false premise however. So we'll see what happens.

@Animasta said:

@Hunter5024 said:

It's really a shame to see so many of you guys are so wrapped up in your parties mindset that you aren't even looking at the other candidate for any reason other than to criticize. It's like you knew who you were voting for before you ever even knew their names. The idea that conservatives or liberals or whoever are evil, actually evil, the phrase we use to describe rapists, murderers, and dictators, just because they don't share the same opinions as you is one of the most asinine assertions I've seen anybody make.

denying rights to people because they love someone of the same gender isn't really a thing a good person would do (not that all republicans do that, but the modern republican party is such that no one would admit to thinking that's a good idea except log cabin republicans)

That's because you personally perceive it to be wrong to do so. To a conservative, they would see it as preserving a very old and sacred tradition. If that tradition were to be tainted, it would lose its sanctity which to them would be evil.

@astrotriforce said:

Btw in case you missed it, CNN has now backtracked on the Libya issue, saying Candy was wrong to correct Romney. And that her and Obama were wrong on the issue. The damage may already be done on how it was perceived as to who won on a false premise however. So we'll see what happens.

That's not at all what they said in that video.

She repeated what she actually did. Corrected him on one a point, and confirmed he was right on another. Unfortunately for Romney, finally being in a position to get called out on his bullshit parade greatly overshadowed the part he was right about.

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@Animasta said:

@Hunter5024 said:

It's really a shame to see so many of you guys are so wrapped up in your parties mindset that you aren't even looking at the other candidate for any reason other than to criticize. It's like you knew who you were voting for before you ever even knew their names. The idea that conservatives or liberals or whoever are evil, actually evil, the phrase we use to describe rapists, murderers, and dictators, just because they don't share the same opinions as you is one of the most asinine assertions I've seen anybody make.

denying rights to people because they love someone of the same gender isn't really a thing a good person would do (not that all republicans do that, but the modern republican party is such that no one would admit to thinking that's a good idea except log cabin republicans)

That's because you personally perceive it to be wrong to do so. To a conservative, they would see it as preserving a very old and sacred tradition. If that tradition were to be tainted, it would lose its sanctity which to them would be evil.

Then they should've thought of that before making marriage mean something in legal terms vOv

I get what you're saying, but individual churches could still refuse to marry gay people (afaik)

Btw in case you missed it, CNN has now backtracked on the Libya issue, saying Candy was wrong to correct Romney. And that her and Obama were wrong on the issue. The damage may already be done on how it was perceived as to who won on a false premise however. So we'll see what happens.

@Animasta said:

@Hunter5024 said:

It's really a shame to see so many of you guys are so wrapped up in your parties mindset that you aren't even looking at the other candidate for any reason other than to criticize. It's like you knew who you were voting for before you ever even knew their names. The idea that conservatives or liberals or whoever are evil, actually evil, the phrase we use to describe rapists, murderers, and dictators, just because they don't share the same opinions as you is one of the most asinine assertions I've seen anybody make.

denying rights to people because they love someone of the same gender isn't really a thing a good person would do (not that all republicans do that, but the modern republican party is such that no one would admit to thinking that's a good idea except log cabin republicans)

Sure, it's pretty shitty in a lot of ways, but it's not evil. The things I mentioned before are evil, lets just try and have a little perspective. Besides, social issues shouldn't be so wrapped up in party affiliation anyways, believing in low taxes or big government has nothing to do with abortion, or gay marriage, and so being a conservative doesn't mean you're a homophobe, and being a liberal doesn't mean you're a baby killer.

@eccentrix said:

@Turambar said:

@eccentrix said:

@Jams said:

@Animasta said:

@astrotriforce: I will never understand the conservative mindset I swear

That's the real problem isn't it? People can't stand to put themselves in other people shoes and even try to consider another persons mindset. By the way, that's not really a passive aggressive comment towards you, but to all people who can't even fathom to play the devils advocate.

I try to think about it, but the only lead I have to go on is "Let's be evil for the sake of it." I guess there's some religious motives, but if you're wanting to separate church and state, or at least pretending to want to, I don't think they're worth considering.

I'm not trying to get into an argument or anything, I just want to put my hat in as someone who doesn't understand it, even though I have tried.

Don't take this personally, because most seem to make this error, but if you claim to try to understand the other side, when the heck would you start with the the idea that they are evil? You're trying to rationalize evil. Of course its not gonna work. Assume positive intent, that conservatives actually do want the best for the country and believe their policies are the best for the country, and go again.

@ManMadeGod I'll just use the gay marriage thing as an easy example, since that what I see discussed most. Taking religion out of the equation, you're left with the most common arguments of gay marriage being bad for the kids or that gay marriage shouldn't exist because it's unnatural. Unless you can back these up with hard evidence which you can honestly believe yourself, you're just taking away people's rights for no solid reason, which I think is an evil thing to do.

These are just my observations as someone with a casual interest. I haven't read any studies on gay marriage, I'm not eligible to vote in the US and I wouldn't vote for either party if I was.

You just said you're taking religious considerations out of a decision that is very much ingrained in religious beliefs. You're not actually trying to reach understanding in that case.

@astrotriforce said:

Btw in case you missed it, CNN has now backtracked on the Libya issue, saying Candy was wrong to correct Romney. And that her and Obama were wrong on the issue. The damage may already be done on how it was perceived as to who won on a false premise however. So we'll see what happens.

No idea why that was addressed to me, but yeah, I was kind of laughing at my screen already when Obama tried to weasel his way out of that point. His usage of the term terror right after the initial attack had nothing to do with condemning it as a terrorist attack.

That said, wouldn't be the first time this election someone gained ground in a debate through a whole lot of lies. See the first debate two weeks ago.

@Hunter5024 said:

@Animasta said:

@Hunter5024 said:

It's really a shame to see so many of you guys are so wrapped up in your parties mindset that you aren't even looking at the other candidate for any reason other than to criticize. It's like you knew who you were voting for before you ever even knew their names. The idea that conservatives or liberals or whoever are evil, actually evil, the phrase we use to describe rapists, murderers, and dictators, just because they don't share the same opinions as you is one of the most asinine assertions I've seen anybody make.

denying rights to people because they love someone of the same gender isn't really a thing a good person would do (not that all republicans do that, but the modern republican party is such that no one would admit to thinking that's a good idea except log cabin republicans)

Sure, it's pretty shitty in a lot of ways, but it's not evil. The things I mentioned before are evil, lets just try and have a little perspective. Besides, social issues shouldn't be so wrapped up in party affiliation anyways, believing in low taxes or big government has nothing to do with abortion, or gay marriage, and so being a conservative doesn't mean you're a homophobe, and being a liberal doesn't mean you're a baby killer.

evil doesn't really have to mean mustache twirling levels of villany you know.

and actually social issues ARE wrapped up in party affiliation! Welcome to America friend (well, where you live is equally as important I suppose)

@Milkman said:

@astrotriforce said:

Btw in case you missed it, CNN has now backtracked on the Libya issue, saying Candy was wrong to correct Romney. And that her and Obama were wrong on the issue. The damage may already be done on how it was perceived as to who won on a false premise however. So we'll see what happens.

This is so dumb. He called it "an act of terror" and not a "terrorist attack." That's literally what people are arguing about right now. I should have known better than to think that presidential debate in this country would come down to arguing idiotic semantics. Nice clearly unbiased GOP YouTube channel, by the way.

Actually, while really fucking poorly contextualized in the debate itself, the whole Libya issue has more to do with communications between the executive branch and the intelligence service than anything else. Supposedly intelligence agencies already knew it was a terrorist attack piggy back on an actual protest right from the start or something, but the administration really fucking bumbled any public response for one reason or another. Leave it to politics to articulate that of course and you get what we got.

@eccentrix said:

@Turambar said:

@eccentrix said:

@Jams said:

@Animasta said:

@astrotriforce: I will never understand the conservative mindset I swear

That's the real problem isn't it? People can't stand to put themselves in other people shoes and even try to consider another persons mindset. By the way, that's not really a passive aggressive comment towards you, but to all people who can't even fathom to play the devils advocate.

I try to think about it, but the only lead I have to go on is "Let's be evil for the sake of it." I guess there's some religious motives, but if you're wanting to separate church and state, or at least pretending to want to, I don't think they're worth considering.

I'm not trying to get into an argument or anything, I just want to put my hat in as someone who doesn't understand it, even though I have tried.

Don't take this personally, because most seem to make this error, but if you claim to try to understand the other side, when the heck would you start with the the idea that they are evil? You're trying to rationalize evil. Of course its not gonna work. Assume positive intent, that conservatives actually do want the best for the country and believe their policies are the best for the country, and go again.

@ManMadeGod I'll just use the gay marriage thing as an easy example, since that what I see discussed most. Taking religion out of the equation, you're left with the most common arguments of gay marriage being bad for the kids or that gay marriage shouldn't exist because it's unnatural. Unless you can back these up with hard evidence which you can honestly believe yourself, you're just taking away people's rights for no solid reason, which I think is an evil thing to do.

These are just my observations as someone with a casual interest. I haven't read any studies on gay marriage, I'm not eligible to vote in the US and I wouldn't vote for either party if I was.

You just said you're taking religious considerations out of a decision that is very much ingrained in religious beliefs. You're not actually trying to reach understanding in that case.

@eccentrix said:

@Turambar said:

@eccentrix said:

@Jams said:

@Animasta said:

@astrotriforce: I will never understand the conservative mindset I swear

That's the real problem isn't it? People can't stand to put themselves in other people shoes and even try to consider another persons mindset. By the way, that's not really a passive aggressive comment towards you, but to all people who can't even fathom to play the devils advocate.

I try to think about it, but the only lead I have to go on is "Let's be evil for the sake of it." I guess there's some religious motives, but if you're wanting to separate church and state, or at least pretending to want to, I don't think they're worth considering.

I'm not trying to get into an argument or anything, I just want to put my hat in as someone who doesn't understand it, even though I have tried.

Don't take this personally, because most seem to make this error, but if you claim to try to understand the other side, when the heck would you start with the the idea that they are evil? You're trying to rationalize evil. Of course its not gonna work. Assume positive intent, that conservatives actually do want the best for the country and believe their policies are the best for the country, and go again.

@ManMadeGod I'll just use the gay marriage thing as an easy example, since that what I see discussed most. Taking religion out of the equation, you're left with the most common arguments of gay marriage being bad for the kids or that gay marriage shouldn't exist because it's unnatural. Unless you can back these up with hard evidence which you can honestly believe yourself, you're just taking away people's rights for no solid reason, which I think is an evil thing to do.

These are just my observations as someone with a casual interest. I haven't read any studies on gay marriage, I'm not eligible to vote in the US and I wouldn't vote for either party if I was.

Or gays in the military...

@Turambarsaid:

You just said you're taking religious considerations out of a decision that is very much ingrained in religious beliefs. You're not actually trying to reach understanding in that case.

Then I do understand and they're just not making any effort to keep their positions constitutional. Separation of church and state is part of the Constitution, right? Honest question there, I'm not American.

@Hunter5024 said:

Sure, it's pretty shitty in a lot of ways, but it's not evil. The things I mentioned before are evil, lets just try and have a little perspective.

Evil is subjective.

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@Animasta said:

@Hunter5024 said:

It's really a shame to see so many of you guys are so wrapped up in your parties mindset that you aren't even looking at the other candidate for any reason other than to criticize. It's like you knew who you were voting for before you ever even knew their names. The idea that conservatives or liberals or whoever are evil, actually evil, the phrase we use to describe rapists, murderers, and dictators, just because they don't share the same opinions as you is one of the most asinine assertions I've seen anybody make.

denying rights to people because they love someone of the same gender isn't really a thing a good person would do (not that all republicans do that, but the modern republican party is such that no one would admit to thinking that's a good idea except log cabin republicans)

That's because you personally perceive it to be wrong to do so. To a conservative, they would see it as preserving a very old and sacred tradition. If that tradition were to be tainted, it would lose its sanctity which to them would be evil.

You can sit on the sidelines and believe what's right and wrong to be in the eye of the beholder all you want, but the illegality of a union between two consenting adult humans is not reasonably equatable to the mere loss of marital tradition.

Homosexual couples cannot legally wed because some people don't likethe thought of it. If you're a moral relativist, you deny yourself a position in practical moral debate, despite inherently having a stake in it as a human being.

@Animasta said:

@SathingtonWaltz said:

@Animasta said:

@Hunter5024 said:

It's really a shame to see so many of you guys are so wrapped up in your parties mindset that you aren't even looking at the other candidate for any reason other than to criticize. It's like you knew who you were voting for before you ever even knew their names. The idea that conservatives or liberals or whoever are evil, actually evil, the phrase we use to describe rapists, murderers, and dictators, just because they don't share the same opinions as you is one of the most asinine assertions I've seen anybody make.

denying rights to people because they love someone of the same gender isn't really a thing a good person would do (not that all republicans do that, but the modern republican party is such that no one would admit to thinking that's a good idea except log cabin republicans)

That's because you personally perceive it to be wrong to do so. To a conservative, they would see it as preserving a very old and sacred tradition. If that tradition were to be tainted, it would lose its sanctity which to them would be evil.

Then they should've thought of that before making marriage mean something in legal terms vOv

I get what you're saying, but individual churches could still refuse to marry gay people (afaik)

I personally believe that we should eliminate the institution of marriage entirely from the government. An archaic and purely religious tradition doesn't belong in a modern secular government.