#1 Posted by lilburtonboy7489 (1948 posts) -

I just found out that one of my favorite presidents is consistently ranked as one of the worst presidents in history. Usually, he's at the very bottom. Anyone know why?

I know the Teapot Dome Scandal happened in his administration, but he was found innocent. His administration was found to gain from it, but Harding himself.

Also, he's the greatest depression fighter we have ever had. He was the last non-keynesian president we've had. He was great for the economy and he loved peace as a foreign policy.

So why all the hate?

#2 Posted by PenguinDust (12491 posts) -

I think you must have Warren Harding confused with Australians...everyone hates Australians.  We all on the same page now, people?

#3 Posted by dr_nefarious (1614 posts) -
PenguinDust said:
"I think you must have Warren Harding confused with Australians...everyone hates Australians.  We all on the same page now, people?"
You must have pissed of the OP from that "why do Americans hate Australians so much" thread.
#4 Posted by lilburtonboy7489 (1948 posts) -

i fear i'm missing something....

i love(d)  the crocodile hunter, australia rules.

#5 Posted by ManMadeGod (1559 posts) -

I don't think I would label some of the tariffs passed under his administration as "great for the economy" yet I agree with you: I am not sure why he is ranked so low (a 2009 CSPAN poll has him ranked below George Bush).
Would you consider Calvin Coolidge a keynesian president?

#6 Posted by lilburtonboy7489 (1948 posts) -

Um...kind of. He had this to say: (you don't need to read the whole thing, you can get the idea by a few lines)

"The idea of utilizing construction, particularly of public works, as a stabilizing factor in the business and employment situation has long been a plan of perfection among students of these problems. If in periods of great business activity the work of construction might be somewhat relaxed; and if in periods of business depression and slack employment those works might be expanded to provide occupation for workers otherwise idle, the result would be a stabilization and equalization which would moderate the alternations of employment and unemployment. This in turn would tend to favorable modification of the economic cycle. . . The first and easiest application of such a regulation is in connection with public works; the construction program which involves public buildings, highways, public utilities, and the like. Most forms of Government construction could be handled in conformity to such a policy, once it was definitely established. . . This applies not only to the construction activities of the Federal Government, but to those of states, counties and cities.

More than this, the economies possible under such a plan are apparent. When everybody wants to do the same thing at the same time, it becomes unduly expensive. Every element of costs, in every direction, tends to expand. These conditions reverse themselves in times of slack employment and subnormal activity, with the result that important economies are possible.

I am convinced that if the Government units would generally adopt such a policy, and if, having adopted it, they would give the fullest publicity to the resultant savings, the showing would have a compelling influence upon business generally. Quasi-public concerns, such as railroads and other public utilities, and the great corporations whose requirements can be quite accurately anticipated and charted, would be impressed that their interest could be served by a like procedure."


So yes, I think he was a little Keynesian, but to a very small extent. He lowered taxes a lot and favored small government. At the same tim, he did believe the government should stabalize the economy and create employment in a crisis. That's a keynesian stance. But in practice, he was better than most.

I think Harding was the last anti-keynesian president, but I wouldn't necessarily consider Coolidge a full blooded keynesian either.

#7 Posted by Edgar (182 posts) -

Harding is alright. But Arthur, Chester A. Arthur. That's where it's at. I've been reppin' for that guy since before it was cool.

#8 Posted by AgentJ (8778 posts) -

Not everyone hates him. I'm indifferent

#9 Posted by lilburtonboy7489 (1948 posts) -
AgentJ said:
"Not everyone hates him. I'm indifferent"
Well, historians, media, and all those dudes hate him. Almost every single list has him ranked either last or in the bottom 5.

#10 Posted by Arkthemaniac (6535 posts) -

Buchanan is last. Glad we cleared that up.

#11 Posted by Snipzor (3317 posts) -

I guess it has something to do when he stated something about how he shouldn't even have been president.

#12 Posted by lilburtonboy7489 (1948 posts) -
Arkthemaniac said:
"Buchanan is last. Glad we cleared that up."
Buchanan almost always is above Harding.
#13 Posted by lilburtonboy7489 (1948 posts) -
Snipzor said:
"I guess it has something to do when he stated something about how he shouldn't even have been president."
That's enough to make you the worst president in history?
#14 Posted by Arkthemaniac (6535 posts) -

Huh.


After looking at some stuff, I guess that a lot of historians are already calling Bush the worst ever . . . but they also said that Buchanan was his biggest competition.
#15 Posted by lilburtonboy7489 (1948 posts) -
#16 Posted by Arkthemaniac (6535 posts) -
lilburtonboy7489 said:
"Here's the link to the survey on the worst president.I would say that Bush is definitely one of the worst presidents we have ever had. I would say FDR, Wilson, and Bush are in my bottom 5. I don't know enough about Buchanan to make a judgment though. "
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . what?

FDR? Wilson? Damn, son.
#17 Posted by Joshbra97 (187 posts) -

Lol, why is he one of your favorites? Were you alive when he was presedint? Lol!

#18 Posted by Maxszy (2064 posts) -

Meh. *shrug* He wasn't in during a difficult time really. Few years after WWI and the beginning of the roaring 20's.

Maybe all the hate is from all the affairs he had. Supposedly he had a lot.

#19 Posted by AgentJ (8778 posts) -
Arkthemaniac said:
"lilburtonboy7489 said:
"Here's the link to the survey on the worst president.I would say that Bush is definitely one of the worst presidents we have ever had. I would say FDR, Wilson, and Bush are in my bottom 5. I don't know enough about Buchanan to make a judgment though. "
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . what?

FDR? Wilson? Damn, son.
"
Dude, he got us through a World War and a depression. I know you dont agree with his policies but lay off the cripple. I won't be commenting in this topic again because we've already had enough arguements about this sort of topic, but really...
#20 Posted by lilburtonboy7489 (1948 posts) -
Arkthemaniac said:
"lilburtonboy7489 said:
"Here's the link to the survey on the worst president.I would say that Bush is definitely one of the worst presidents we have ever had. I would say FDR, Wilson, and Bush are in my bottom 5. I don't know enough about Buchanan to make a judgment though. "
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . what?

FDR? Wilson? Damn, son.
"
Yea. Wilson was an awful person. He got us into ridiculous debt, got us into a war we never should have been involved in, and he put people in jail for insane reasons.

FDR is responsible for a lot of the problems we are in today by his creation of so many government programs. Also, he made the depression last 10 years because of his economically retarded policies. While Hoover made the depression worse (no, he didn't start it, the FED did), FDR made it unbelievably worse.
#21 Posted by lilburtonboy7489 (1948 posts) -
AgentJ said:
"Arkthemaniac said:
"lilburtonboy7489 said:
"Here's the link to the survey on the worst president.I would say that Bush is definitely one of the worst presidents we have ever had. I would say FDR, Wilson, and Bush are in my bottom 5. I don't know enough about Buchanan to make a judgment though. "
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . what?

FDR? Wilson? Damn, son.
"
Dude, he got us through a World War and a depression. I know you dont agree with his policies but lay off the cripple. I won't be commenting in this topic again because we've already had enough arguements about this sort of topic, but really...
"
Why should I like him when I don't agree with his policies?

And he did NOT get us through the depression, he's the reason it was such an awful depression that lasted for 10 years while he was in office. Every economic policy he implemented in office was a step in the wrong direction.

And I know you won't reply cuz this is a subject which is debated too much, but I can't ket you get away with saying that he gut us through it.
#22 Posted by Maxszy (2064 posts) -
lilburtonboy7489 said:
"Arkthemaniac said:
"lilburtonboy7489 said:
"Here's the link to the survey on the worst president.I would say that Bush is definitely one of the worst presidents we have ever had. I would say FDR, Wilson, and Bush are in my bottom 5. I don't know enough about Buchanan to make a judgment though. "
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . what?

FDR? Wilson? Damn, son.
"
Yea. Wilson was an awful person. He got us into ridiculous debt, got us into a war we never should have been involved in, and he put people in jail for insane reasons. FDR is responsible for a lot of the problems we are in today by his creation of so many government programs. Also, he made the depression last 10 years because of his economically retarded policies. While Hoover made the depression worse (no, he didn't start it, the FED did), FDR made it unbelievably worse. "
FDR made it unbelievably worse? What the hell are you on man? One may not agree with his policies, but for god's sake...as AgentJ said he got us through World War 2 and out of the great depression. I don't think there was anything "worse" than that time period. If you really believe FDR screwed over the country like you are implying... I really think you are a bit disillusioned.

But again as AgentJ said... we've had a lot of topics on this so bleh..no more. I had to say what I felt to that though! :-P
#23 Posted by lilburtonboy7489 (1948 posts) -

How did he make it better? I hate to tell you, but high school history books are wrong. I don't mean that in a snotty way or to be a dick, I believed the same until awhile ago. You learn that free market Hoover got us into the depression, and good old FDR created amazing policies to save us.

1) Hoover was not a believer in the free market.
2) He did not start the depression, but he made it worse.
3) FDR did not do a single good thing for the economy.

FDR was known for creating jobs. In order to do this, he raised taxes. He took money from the private sector, and redirected it to government jobs. That means less money was available in the private sector, so unemployment increased due to decreased private investment and consumption. Instead, this was put into government jobs such as the CCC and WPA. The problem, is that private sector jobs are profitable because they are run based on profits and losses. Government jobs are not. They acquire money based on taxation. So demand does not fuel production, but government mandate does.

By doing this, unprofitable jobs are created. Since the demand is not there for many of these jobs, the value does not exists, since demand gives value. So while unprofitable production increases, profitable production decreases. This is a classic case of the broken window fallacy. This is the main reason FDR's time in office was an economic disaster.

And don't even get me started on his obession with price fixing and subsidies.

I don't care whether you like him or not, but his economic policies were devastating and were the reason for the prolonging of the depression.

#24 Posted by Snipzor (3317 posts) -
lilburtonboy7489 said:
"Snipzor said:
"I guess it has something to do when he stated something about how he shouldn't even have been president."
That's enough to make you the worst president in history?"
No, but it sure as hell shows his own opinion of his presidency, and I'm sure he's not the type to say that just for being hard on himself. I'm sure it's because he sucked, and he was in complete realization of said fact.

/Now waiting for "1920's depression" bullshit
#25 Posted by BoG (5187 posts) -

I'm impartial to Harding. I'm a McKinley fan for life. Hey W.J.B., you can take your "free silver" and SHOVE IT. Hawaii RULES!

#26 Posted by lilburtonboy7489 (1948 posts) -

I don't think you can say he's awful because he said that. I mean you can say it, but that's not much of an argument.

Ha, i already made a topic on that. I won't mention it again. But it's not bullshit.