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#1 Posted by Blastroid (257 posts) -

Neighborhood watch person where neighborhood had recent break ins followed someone. The person is question was cutting though a yard. Is a neighborhood watch person supposed to first determine the race before following? No he would follow no matter what race. In this case it just happened to be a black person. Where in the trial does race even start?

#2 Posted by Hunkulese (2723 posts) -

I know it's sometimes hard to see but there is actually a small difference between following someone and killing them.

#3 Edited by Blastroid (257 posts) -

The question was not about the murder being wrong or right it was about why people say it was raciest. No matter the race killing is bad no reason to turn it into something racist. Calling this racists is in fact the only thing racist.

#4 Posted by falserelic (5437 posts) -

This thread is going to lead into a new set of arguments...

#5 Posted by Blastroid (257 posts) -

I am guessing that Zimmerman also probably have followed other races on his watch. Just happened to be this time a black person and a fight broke out. If he was found to only profile black people then yes I can consider that a racist act but that has never been brought up.

#6 Edited by Hunkulese (2723 posts) -

The question was not about the murder being wrong or right it was about why people say it was raciest. No matter the race killing is bad no reason to turn it into something racist. Calling this racists is in fact the only thing racist.

Well why are you asking a question and ignoring the most important part? It wasn't just a case of a white man following a black man. It was a white man pursuing and shooting an unarmed black kid. It's ludicrous to not see how someone could see racism as being a factor.

#7 Posted by Aegon (5637 posts) -

What I'm wondering is what is convincing people that this guy wasn't defending himself? From what I've heard / read, the evidence is supporting his case.

#8 Posted by smcn (926 posts) -

Because ironically liberals have created a world where we only look at the surface. It doesn't matter that Zimmerman is Hispanic or that Trayvon was a documented troublemaker. A white-looking man shot a black kid and must be punished.

#9 Posted by Blastroid (257 posts) -

@blastroid said:

The question was not about the murder being wrong or right it was about why people say it was raciest. No matter the race killing is bad no reason to turn it into something racist. Calling this racists is in fact the only thing racist.

Well why are you asking a question and ignoring the most important part? It wasn't just a case of a white man following a black man. It was a white man pursuing and shooting an unarmed black kid. It's ludicrous to not see how someone could see racism as being a factor.

That was the scenario or circumstances is this killing. It could have been any combination of races. What exactly other than it happen to be these two races makes it racist is the question. For example it could have been a white man killing an unarmed white man or a black man killing a unarmed black man. These scenarios happen all the time. it just happened to be a white man killing an unarmed black man. People are so easy to pull the race card when crap just happens sometimes and it does not mean it is racist. I am in no way saying this was not a tragic outcome but I still am having trouble seeing the racist side of this unless something racist other than it just happened to be two different races. Has Zimmerman shown to be a racist person in the past, is he part of organizations that tend to be more racists?

#10 Edited by Blastroid (257 posts) -

What you are saying is 100% of time when another race kills a black man it has to be racists. I do not agree with that. SHIT happens sometimes without needing to read more into it. Could it have been racists, yes. Could it have not been racists, yes. What proof other than it is two different races makes it racists?

#11 Edited by HerpDerp (133 posts) -

It's not. /thread

#12 Edited by WarlordPayne (700 posts) -

The media has been trying to portray Zimmerman as a racist but that wasn't the initial reason that people were claiming racism.

The reason that people started crying racism was because an unarmed 17 year old black kid got shot and killed and the cops didn't give a shit.

Also, the neighborhood watch person isn't supposed to follow at all. If they spot someone suspicious they aren't supposed to follow or confront the person, they're supposed to call the cops and let the cops handle it.

#13 Posted by DonutFever (3551 posts) -

@warlordpayne said:

The media has been trying to portray Zimmerman as a racist but that wasn't the initial reason that people were claiming racism.

The reason that people started crying racism was because an unarmed 17 year old black kid got shot and killed and the cops didn't give a shit.

This. I brought this up in the other thread, but they did toxicology reports and background checks on Trayvon's dead body, not Zimmerman, when they had both in their police station. So disgusting.

#14 Edited by RonGalaxy (3168 posts) -

@hunkulese said:

@blastroid said:

The question was not about the murder being wrong or right it was about why people say it was raciest. No matter the race killing is bad no reason to turn it into something racist. Calling this racists is in fact the only thing racist.

Well why are you asking a question and ignoring the most important part? It wasn't just a case of a white man following a black man. It was a white man pursuing and shooting an unarmed black kid. It's ludicrous to not see how someone could see racism as being a factor.

George Zimmerman is NOT white. He is multiracial and identifies as hispanic.

Edit: He also has afro-peruvian in him from his great grandmother. So he has black ancestry as well.

His father was white, and of german descent.

He had identified as hispanic LONG before any of this, specifically on his voter registration (where he is also a registered democrat)

This has me raise the question, have you even looked at a picture of george zimmerman? Does he really look white to you?

#15 Edited by DonutFever (3551 posts) -

@naru_joe93 said:

@hunkulese said:

@blastroid said:

The question was not about the murder being wrong or right it was about why people say it was raciest. No matter the race killing is bad no reason to turn it into something racist. Calling this racists is in fact the only thing racist.

Well why are you asking a question and ignoring the most important part? It wasn't just a case of a white man following a black man. It was a white man pursuing and shooting an unarmed black kid. It's ludicrous to not see how someone could see racism as being a factor.

George Zimmerman is NOT white. He is multiracial and identifies as hispanic.

Edit: He also has afro-peruvian in him from his great grandmother. So he has black ancestry as well.

His father was white, and of german descent.

He had identified as hispanic LONG before any of this, specifically on his voter registration (where he is also a registered democrat)

This has me raise the question, have you even looked at a picture of george zimmerman? Does he really look white to you?

He looks incredibly different in the trial. Here's him in the trial and him roughly around when he killed Trayvon (who called him a "cracker" over the phone to his friend):

#16 Posted by RonGalaxy (3168 posts) -

@naru_joe93 said:

@hunkulese said:

@blastroid said:

The question was not about the murder being wrong or right it was about why people say it was raciest. No matter the race killing is bad no reason to turn it into something racist. Calling this racists is in fact the only thing racist.

Well why are you asking a question and ignoring the most important part? It wasn't just a case of a white man following a black man. It was a white man pursuing and shooting an unarmed black kid. It's ludicrous to not see how someone could see racism as being a factor.

George Zimmerman is NOT white. He is multiracial and identifies as hispanic.

Edit: He also has afro-peruvian in him from his great grandmother. So he has black ancestry as well.

His father was white, and of german descent.

He had identified as hispanic LONG before any of this, specifically on his voter registration (where he is also a registered democrat)

This has me raise the question, have you even looked at a picture of george zimmerman? Does he really look white to you?

He looks incredibly different in the trial. Here's that and him roughly around when he killed Trayvon:

He still, very much, looks hispanic, even if the camera/lighting deceive you into thinking he looks pale (like how jeff looks paler and redder on one camera, but fine on another)

#17 Posted by DonutFever (3551 posts) -

@donutfever said:

@naru_joe93 said:

@hunkulese said:

@blastroid said:

The question was not about the murder being wrong or right it was about why people say it was raciest. No matter the race killing is bad no reason to turn it into something racist. Calling this racists is in fact the only thing racist.

Well why are you asking a question and ignoring the most important part? It wasn't just a case of a white man following a black man. It was a white man pursuing and shooting an unarmed black kid. It's ludicrous to not see how someone could see racism as being a factor.

George Zimmerman is NOT white. He is multiracial and identifies as hispanic.

Edit: He also has afro-peruvian in him from his great grandmother. So he has black ancestry as well.

His father was white, and of german descent.

He had identified as hispanic LONG before any of this, specifically on his voter registration (where he is also a registered democrat)

This has me raise the question, have you even looked at a picture of george zimmerman? Does he really look white to you?

He looks incredibly different in the trial. Here's that and him roughly around when he killed Trayvon:

He still, very much, looks hispanic, even if the camera/lighting deceive you into thinking he looks pale (like how jeff looks paler and redder on one camera, but fine on another)

Pretty much every picture I've seen of him pre-prison he looks the way he does in the second picture.

Again though, the racism in question is that of the police.

#18 Posted by believer258 (11907 posts) -

I don't know.

All I know is that Zimmerman, a Hispanic, followed Martin, a black guy, around because he thought he looked suspicious despite the police telling him not to. Then the two got in a fight and Zimmerman shot him, claiming that it was out of self-defense. Zimmerman shouldn't have followed him, but I can't be certain whether he shot Martin out of self-defense or not.

Side question - why does "racism" always mean "blacks and whites disliking each other"? Why can't a Hispanic guy be racist against black and white people? Above me, it seems like the argument is being made that Zimmerman's not racist because he's at least partly Hispanic. Sounds like bullshit to me.

#19 Posted by senrat (323 posts) -

There is absolutely nothing racist about what happened. The racism angle was brought up to promote an agenda, zimmerman was just a scapegoat. The idiocy and simple minded thinking in reaction to this trial is mind numbingly stupid and politically motivated. People are killed every day in similar incidents around the world, this one just happened to be picked as the racist one.

#20 Posted by DonutFever (3551 posts) -

@senrat: What was Zimmerman the scapegoat of?

People are killed every day in similar incidents. In developed countries like the one this occurred in, the police generally respond.

#21 Posted by bwheeeler (449 posts) -

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH

#22 Posted by Poppduder (460 posts) -

It might have to do with how Zimmerman called Teyvon a "fucking co*n" on the 911 tape, and Martin called George a "creepy cracker." The thing is, the second one is a factual statement, and the first one is just a racial slur.

#23 Posted by MikeHawk (382 posts) -

@naru_joe93: Exactly. I really hate how people get to decide which race a mixed-race person is based on the situation. George Zimmerman is only half-white, but becomes full-white the second he's suspected of murdering a black person. People do the same thing to President Obama, too. He's also half-white, but Samuel L. Jackson and many others voted for him because he was black.

And for the record, I really don't know if Zimmerman should have been guilty or not guilty. I don't know all of the facts. I just think many of the people that cry "Racist!" in situations like these are the ones acting racist.

#24 Posted by darkdragonmage99 (740 posts) -

@aegon: Defending ones self involved a active threat to themselves or someone else life or well-being. Now tell me how does following and shooting a unarmed kid involve someones life being threaten other then the kids. Teyvon was no threat to anyone a unarmed kid followed and accosted by a armed adult and the adult shooting the kid is self defense my ass. You first have to have a reason to defend yourself to defend yourself plain and simple.

@mikehawk I tell this to everyone who makes this assumption you don't have to be white to be racist plenty of black people are racist every Hispanic person I've ever met has been racist japan is such a xenophobic nation the majority of their people are racist.

#25 Edited by RollingZeppelin (1975 posts) -

This thread's gonna be a winner, I can tell.

#26 Edited by falserelic (5437 posts) -

This thread's gonna be a winner, I can tell.

Yep, I'm just waiting for the bomb to blow up.

#27 Posted by Inkerman (1451 posts) -

There's really two issues when it comes to race in this case, firstly, was Zimmerman racially profiling Martin when he approached him? And would he have stopped him if he was white? The second issue is Zimmerman's race, which really shouldn't be an issue, but was created by the media, and has subsequently become one. Personally I do think this is an issue that people cannot possibly believe a non-white person racially stereotypes, but whatever, it isn't particularly important to the case.

For my two cents, I don't think the trial should have even happened, not because Zimmerman may or may not have been innocent of wrongdoing, but because the media frenzy tainted any possibility of a fair trial. Frankly I though the way American media (and many everyday Americans) have portrayed this case is disgusting, and is just one step away from public executions. I had one American describe it to me as 'like playing a video game or watching a movie'.

#28 Posted by living4theday258 (679 posts) -

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH

my feelings on this.

#29 Posted by OurSin_360 (885 posts) -

Pretty obvious, but i'm sure your probably not black so you have no idea what it's like to be followed and profiled like trayvon was. Shit i was at the tiger direct a few months ago buying a cpu and a mobo getting stalked by the manager like i'm bout to steal something lmao. I'm 30 with a college degree

Zimmerman was white and hispanic, jury was white and hispanic. Besides trayvons family, maybe 3 black faces in entire courtroom. Saying race didn't factor into this is foolish (or trollish?)

Also I've met more racist hispanics in my life than white folks honestly so that don't really mean shit lol.

#30 Edited by falserelic (5437 posts) -

(Just a question and lets try to be respectful)

If the roles was switched, and zimmerman was black and Trevon was white. Do you think the case would have had the same outcome? just a question I just want to see what you guys think..

#31 Posted by FourWude (2261 posts) -

@falserelic: Puh-Leeeze... If it had been the other way round the black guy would be on Death Row by now.

#32 Posted by jimmyfenix (3855 posts) -

Hey guys Twinkies are back!!! oh wait this is no place for Twinkies :(

#33 Posted by OurSin_360 (885 posts) -

(Just a question and lets try to be respectful)

If the roles was switched, and zimmerman was black and Trevon was white. Do you think the case would have had the same outcome? just a question I just want to see what you guys think..

He would be in jail and probably charged with 1st degree murder. He probably would have been in jail the entire time, zimmerman wasn't even charged at first they just took his word for it. smfh

#34 Posted by Rick_Fingers (524 posts) -

I'm not American and have not followed this closely, but I believe I saw it reported that the kid was hitting the accused with a piece of pavement?

if that's the case, depending on who attacked first, I can see shooting him being considered justified.

#35 Posted by DonutFever (3551 posts) -

@rick_fingers said:

I'm not American and have not followed this closely, but I believe I saw it reported that the kid was hitting the accused with a piece of pavement?

if that's the case, depending on who attacked first, I can see shooting him being considered justified.

During the fight, Zimmerman claims the fight ended up on the sidewalk, and the being punched was slamming his head into the concrete. But you can't really take his word for it.

#36 Posted by Fearbeard (830 posts) -

Because Zimmerman wasn't black

#37 Edited by pezcore343 (16 posts) -

So how about them video games, huh guys?

#38 Posted by SomeDeliCook (2341 posts) -

This case is over, why must people still be so fixated over it when so many others have been killed since then.

#39 Posted by Rick_Fingers (524 posts) -

@donutfever: you can't take his word for it, but it has to be considered when it can contribute to reasonable doubt.

#40 Posted by horseman6 (393 posts) -

The only reason anyone should be wearing a hoodie is if it's damn cold (which I believe it was at the time). Otherwise you're going to look suspicious now matter your ethnic background.

#41 Posted by pyrodactyl (2035 posts) -

You can tell race was a factor by noticing the alarming number of white guys strongly arguing that race was not a factor.

@smcn said:

Because ironically liberals have created a world where we only look at the surface. It doesn't matter that Zimmerman is Hispanic or that Trayvon was a documented troublemaker. A white-looking man shot a black kid and must be punished.

@hunkulese said:

@blastroid said:

The question was not about the murder being wrong or right it was about why people say it was raciest. No matter the race killing is bad no reason to turn it into something racist. Calling this racists is in fact the only thing racist.

Well why are you asking a question and ignoring the most important part? It wasn't just a case of a white man following a black man. It was a white man pursuing and shooting an unarmed black kid. It's ludicrous to not see how someone could see racism as being a factor.

George Zimmerman is NOT white. He is multiracial and identifies as hispanic.

Edit: He also has afro-peruvian in him from his great grandmother. So he has black ancestry as well.

His father was white, and of german descent.

He had identified as hispanic LONG before any of this, specifically on his voter registration (where he is also a registered democrat)

This has me raise the question, have you even looked at a picture of george zimmerman? Does he really look white to you?

@senrat said:

There is absolutely nothing racist about what happened. The racism angle was brought up to promote an agenda, zimmerman was just a scapegoat. The idiocy and simple minded thinking in reaction to this trial is mind numbingly stupid and politically motivated. People are killed every day in similar incidents around the world, this one just happened to be picked as the racist one.

#42 Posted by hwy_61 (922 posts) -

Part of me honestly believes that Martin being black, was profiled and suspected of mischief. People want to pretend that prejudice doesn't exist in the US, but it does.

#43 Posted by groverat (137 posts) -

Neighborhood watch person where neighborhood had recent break ins followed someone. The person is question was cutting though a yard. Is a neighborhood watch person supposed to first determine the race before following? No he would follow no matter what race. In this case it just happened to be a black person. Where in the trial does race even start?

- Martin was not cutting through yards.

- Actual Neighborhood Watch patrol is unarmed.

- Actual Neighborhood Watch patrol does not pursue suspects.

- Zimmerman ignored the police request to stay where he was and not pursue Martin.

- Zimmerman was armed with a deadly weapon.

- Martin was unarmed.

- Zimmerman is on the 911 call expressing anger and frustration towards Martin, who has done nothing wrong.

- Zimmerman states in the 911 call that Martin is one of the punks who always "get away with" things.

#44 Edited by hardindr (189 posts) -

I don't think the prosecution in this case ever presented any evidence that Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon Martin, because it was prohibited from doing so by the Judge before the trial. Please see here.

#45 Posted by hardindr (189 posts) -

If people are interested in a view of the trial from the perspective of an experience criminal defense attorney, I would recommend Jeralyn Merritt's Talk Left blog. She has reviewed nearly ever piece of evidence, argument, legal motions, etc. about the case. Go to here.

I think this column sums up my thoughts about this case.

#46 Posted by falserelic (5437 posts) -

People make me sick to my stomach sometimes. All the hateful comments on youtube, and the insane arguments on GB gave me a headache. Just shows how fucked up the world can be at times..

#48 Edited by darkdragonmage99 (740 posts) -

@somedelicook: I don't know why do people still think OJ killed his wife might be because he did might be because we like to prattle on about shit we don't know or understand who knows.

@horseman6: damn cold in Florida yeah sure that happens if you are a complete pussy and don't know what cold is.

#49 Posted by Icemael (6320 posts) -

"Hispanic" isn't a racial term. The population of Spain doesn't belong to a different race from the population of France and the rest of Europe for fuck's sake, the Hispanics are a cultural group that consists mainly of Caucasians.

Online
#50 Posted by leebmx (2244 posts) -

@blastroid: The question is would he have followed the man if he was white and wearing a suit, and then shot him if he resisted. He saw Travon and because he was Black and had a hoody up assumed he was suspicious. He would not have made this distinction if the guy was a white man in a suit. That is why this case involves race, it is nothing to do with Zimmermans colour, and all to do with Travon's.

The outcome to this case is that if you are a Black man legally going about your business in Florida, someone (and they don't have to be a law enforcement officer) can come up to you and question your business, then shoot you if you tell them to get the fuck out of your face or resist - This isn't the same for White people.