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#1 Posted by DoctorDanger99 (687 posts) -

so i was at my girlfriends moms house the other day. i cant stand the bitch but i try to act like i do for my girlfriends sake. any ways her little sister who is like thirteen was watching one of the texas chainsaw massacre movies. they arent the best movies but whatever. after the movie's over her sister starts flipping through the channels and landed on some random movie or tv show where people were about to have sex. lots of kissing and touching and stuff. nothing really graphic. her mom flips and starts yelling for her to change it.

i was confused so i asked why. i was told in no uncertin terms that her daughter doesnt need to watch that kind of stuff. i asked why again. i was told that she was too young to be watching people have sex. i then pointed out the irony that she just let her kid watch a movie where people are killed in a variety of gory and nasty ways and she just shrugs it off. she says sex is worse. it could give her ideas. so after a bit of trying to explain to her the error in her thinking i gave up.

shes not the only person ive seen do this. alot of people seem to think that violence is better than sex. that violence is more acceptable. i even flat out asked her, which would you rather your child see in real life, a person being killed or two people having sex? she told me shed rather her see the death. what kind of fucked up world do we live in where it's more ok to see sombody get thier head cut off than it is to see two people fucking? why do alot of people seem to have this idea? am i the only one that has noticed this? please,tell me im not alone.

#2 Edited by Icemael (6364 posts) -

The kid having sex and it ending up with, say, her catching an STD, or getting pregnant, or getting exploited or something is a very real possibility even if she doesn't get exposed to sex in media. The kid going out and violently beating people, on the other hand, is extremely unlikely no matter how many violent movies she sees. Also sex is more associated with shame and embarrassment.

#3 Posted by AlexW00d (6436 posts) -

This seems like the overall view of America (I assume you're American); when I was last there, Goodfellas was being shown a 3 in the afternoon, and showing them stab the shit out of a dude, but when watching something at like 11 at night (I forget what exactly) swears and boobs? CENSOR THAT SHIT. It's super backwards.

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#4 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Icemael said:

Also sex is more associated with shame and embarrassment.

And that is the fucked up part. What's so shameful about sex? It's a pretty cool thing, and as long as you're careful about it, then there's nothing wrong there. (If you aren't careful, though, you should be ashamed, but more of your own stupidity.)

#5 Posted by Kyle (2325 posts) -

It goes back to the Puritanical roots of the US.

#6 Posted by Brodehouse (10129 posts) -

Because western religion has spent two millennia teaching righteous violence and sexual repression (no judgement, that's just how it's happened). You're taught to fear both violence and sex, but you're taught to respect violence.

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#7 Posted by Animasta (14723 posts) -

@Kyle said:

It goes back to the Puritanical roots of the US.

yep. fuckin puritans, man

though extreme violence isn't really cool, as is... extreme sex? I guess? still, it's way too shameful in our society.

#8 Posted by salad10203 (654 posts) -

Wait till you have a kid and then you can talk.

#9 Posted by DoctorDanger99 (687 posts) -

@Brodehouse:

yeah that pretty much sums it up perfectly. i know alot of people who go to church but in the least bit religous. i ask them why and they cant give me an answer. they just do it because it's how theyve been raised.

as far as a person being less likely to commit an act of violence opposed to somthing sexual,thats bull. i would be very upset if my kid got pregnant or somthing but id be even more upset if they caused violence. i think people in this country (america) build sex up as this HUGE thing when it shouldnt be. sure, it's not somthing that shouldnt be taken seriously, but people build it up as this big huge secret thing. it's not. 98% of the time sex is just sex. two people fucking to feel good thats it. the only reason it's such a big deal is because people make it a big deal.

#10 Posted by Veektarius (5019 posts) -

There are going to be a lot of people here who give you the following answer:

Because American culture is fucked up

Even though I'm no fan of censorship, however, I think that mom has a point here. We all (mostly) know that killing people in violent ways is bad. We've numerous times had the debate (if you can call it that, given how one-sided it is on a gaming forum) that violent games do not create violent people. We're smart enough to distinguish fantasy from reality, and know that if done in reality, this uber-violence would be unthinkable.

But what about sex? There are certainly some religious sects who'll go right out there and say sex is sinful, whether in totality or just when indulged in beyond the necessity for reproduction. But Americans as a culture accept sex, it's fine, it's fun, be responsible, but as long as you don't do it with too many people, do it as much as you want. (That last rule applies more for girls.) So, as such, a kid watching sexual acts performed without consequences in media is actually a lot more likely to put ideas in their heads. I don't need to tell you that rates of underage pregnancies are up - that's teenagers who got the idea to have sex and somehow calculated that the probability of a kid coming out of it weren't worth considering.

If you were able to keep them from getting the ideas in the first place, I think there is an argument to be made that incidence would actually go down. Now, given the pervasiveness of sex in media and the rampant word of mouth that'll go on in a school environment, this may be a lost cause. And once again, I'd rather just put everything out there and properly educate our kids about the world in advance. But I'm taking the Devil's Advocate position here and saying that your girlfriend's mom isn't an idiot for feeling as she does.

#11 Posted by DoctorDanger99 (687 posts) -

@salad10203:

that wouldnt change anything. ive had kids before. i allways made sure he didnt see anything too graphic in either violence or sex. i wouldnt let my child sit around and watch porn but i also wouldnt let him sit around and watch leathal weapon either.

now if i walked in on my six year old playing gta4 i would be alot more upset than if i walked in on him watching debbie does dallas.

#12 Posted by DoctorDanger99 (687 posts) -

@Veektarius: lol no,shes an idiot. she accuses me of turning her daughter into an atheist even though she has zero belifs.

#13 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Veektarius said:

I don't need to tell you that rates of underage pregnancies are up

Since when?

#14 Posted by salad10203 (654 posts) -

@DoctorDanger99: Well its simply a difference of opinion then. Just because your beliefs are different than hers or most people's doesn't make them superior. She didn't go out of her way to challenge your values, you shouldn't either.

#15 Posted by DoctorDanger99 (687 posts) -

@salad10203:

no it's not like that. i was just using her as an example. her mother and i have a long history of hating each other and this was just another thing in a long line of reason i despise that woman.

#16 Posted by Veektarius (5019 posts) -

@DoctorDanger99: Try walking a mile in her shoes, man. She's got a different perspective than you.

#17 Posted by Veektarius (5019 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

@Veektarius said:

I don't need to tell you that rates of underage pregnancies are up

Since when?

I checked my numbers and you're right. I was misinformed and teenage pregnancies are not up.

#18 Posted by DoctorDanger99 (687 posts) -

@Veektarius:

trust me man,ive tried. the things this woman does is ridiculous. if i were to walk a mile in her shoes it would involve the destruction of countless lives. she is a plauge upon this earth.

#19 Posted by Tsoglani (585 posts) -

It's a symptom of a typical hypocritical society: same thing in Australia, you can watch shows where dudes get chopped, sliced, diced, shot, and splattered up, but a bit of boob shows up and the outcry is fanatical.

I think it probably says more about the West than anything else; Europe for example is way more liberal with how they deal with sexuality.

#20 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Veektarius:

My main concern is whether or not you even have numbers in the first place.

#21 Edited by jozzy (2035 posts) -

@Veektarius said:

If you were able to keep them from getting the ideas in the first place, I think there is an argument to be made that incidence would actually go down. Now, given the pervasiveness of sex in media and the rampant word of mouth that'll go on in a school environment, this may be a lost cause. And once again, I'd rather just put everything out there and properly educate our kids about the world in advance. But I'm taking the Devil's Advocate position here and saying that your girlfriend's mom isn't an idiot for feeling as she does.

This is it though, it's better to get it out in the open and talk about the risks in a mature way than to try to hide it. Even without any media, when kids' hormones start running wild they are going to get interested in sex. The whole secrecy thing actually makes it more exciting and rebellious. I am willing to bet that kids who are raised in an environment where parents are communicating about sex have way less chance of getting into teen pregnancies or other sex related risks. I know you agree with me, but where we disagree is the mother: what she is doing is actually way worse than letting her daughter seeing it and talking about it.

(This coming from a father with a daughter by the way, in case that matters)

#22 Posted by pyromagnestir (4339 posts) -

@Veektarius said:

I don't need to tell you that rates of underage pregnancies are up - that's teenagers who got the idea to have sex and somehow calculated that the probability of a kid coming out of it weren't worth considering.

If you were able to keep them from getting the ideas in the first place, I think there is an argument to be made that incidence would actually go down. Now, given the pervasiveness of sex in media and the rampant word of mouth that'll go on in a school environment, this may be a lost cause. And once again, I'd rather just put everything out there and properly educate our kids about the world in advance. But I'm taking the Devil's Advocate position here and saying that your girlfriend's mom isn't an idiot for feeling as she does.

You can't keep the "idea" of having sex out of teenagers because it isn't an idea. It's a biological fucking function. Not explaining anything about sex prior to that is what leads to a lot of those unwanted pregnancies, because the horny kids doing what comes natural are ignorant to the risks or to the things that would nullify the risks because everyone was to afraid to tell them for fear they would do something they are going to do anyway.

I fucking hate humanity sometimes. I do at this particular moment. (I don't hate you veek, just to be clear) I don't know why. I'm just angry today.

#23 Posted by Veektarius (5019 posts) -
#24 Posted by Toxeia (725 posts) -

How old are you? Anyone that asks an adult "Why?" more than once is a child.

Also, it's a culture thing. Violence is part of our TV and media culture. Sex is still a pretty touchy subject because America's just not open in that way. It's part of America's protestant history. All there is to it. This was very clear during the E3 stage demos where the room becomes deathly silent while that scantily clad CG lady grinds on the character, but bursts into applause and cheers when a man is brutally beat with the butt of a gun and killed with a blast to the face.

If you look at other countries, they're much more open with their bodies. I don't know if this is because they've just accepted that it's part of their bodies and natural or what though.

Now granted, 13 she's old enough in my opinion to watch anything that's not graphic gore or hardcore porn. She knows what the human body looks like and it's better she see that stuff than it some how become the forbidden fruit and go slut on her mother.

Oh, and I'd say getting knocked up is a more immediate danger than taking a chainsaw and cutting up some dudes. I'm with the mom that sexually explicit material is worse than gore in that sense.

#25 Posted by DoctorDanger99 (687 posts) -

@jozzy:

exactly. her daughter was recntly found to be exposing herself over webcam to her boyfriend. her mother did nothing about it because she didnt wanna create an issue with it and because she didnt care. it was easier to just buy her an ipad and pretend it neevr happened

#26 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Toxeia said:

Oh, and I'd say getting knocked up is a more immediate danger than taking a chainsaw and cutting up some dudes.

But is it a more immediate danger than being a victim of domestic violence? Or being in an abusive relationship?

#27 Posted by bybeach (4996 posts) -

@DoctorDanger99 said:

so i was at my girlfriends moms house the other day. i cant stand the bitch but i try to act like i do for my girlfriends sake. any ways her little sister who is like thirteen was watching one of the texas chainsaw massacre movies. they arent the best movies but whatever. after the movie's over her sister starts flipping through the channels and landed on some random movie or tv show where people were about to have sex. lots of kissing and touching and stuff. nothing really graphic. her mom flips and starts yelling for her to change it.

i was confused so i asked why. i was told in no uncertin terms that her daughter doesnt need to watch that kind of stuff. i asked why again. i was told that she was too young to be watching people have sex. i then pointed out the irony that she just let her kid watch a movie where people are killed in a variety of gory and nasty ways and she just shrugs it off. she says sex is worse. it could give her ideas. so after a bit of trying to explain to her the error in her thinking i gave up.

shes not the only person ive seen do this. alot of people seem to think that violence is better than sex. that violence is more acceptable. i even flat out asked her, which would you rather your child see in real life, a person being killed or two people having sex? she told me shed rather her see the death. what kind of fucked up world do we live in where it's more ok to see sombody get thier head cut off than it is to see two people fucking? why do alot of people seem to have this idea? am i the only one that has noticed this? please,tell me im not alone.

You were right. You were observing a nice piece of societal conditioning. But do you always go into someone elses house that they own or rent and challenge them on their actions? This for example is my house, I struggled for it, if anyone challenged my rule-set I would ask them to leave. The world has been non-sensical forever. Anybody can trip anyone up on a particular, yet may make good sense in the long run. Maybe Mom has repeatably caught her 13 year old daughter in an act of sexual stimulation while holding up a picture of Bieber with one hand. Cutting off limbs with a chainsaw is a relief( not serious, lousy balance and I mean no offense) Being a hypocrite can be very grey and perhaps little bottom to it....

#28 Posted by DoctorDanger99 (687 posts) -

@Toxeia: thats your opinion and your fine to have it, i just dont understand why it's more ok to have someone watch hardcore violence opposed to sex.

#29 Posted by pyromagnestir (4339 posts) -
#30 Posted by DoctorDanger99 (687 posts) -

@bybeach: lol valid point my man. as far as this being in this persons house and following her rules, fuck her. she didnt pay and struggle for it. i despise the woman and i go out of my way to challenge her dimly held beliefs on any subject. im superman and she is a mentally retarded lex luthor but i digress.

it wasnt in a accusatory tone we had this conversation and i wouldnt just walk up in sombody's house and start up this topic.

#31 Posted by kmdrkul (3476 posts) -

Stop being a busy body. Different people have different standards. There are tribes in Africa who will slaughter intruders and take their heads as trophies - it's normal to them. Some men in Utah have thirty different wives - it's normal to them.

#32 Posted by white_sox (212 posts) -

Violence is identified and addressed at an early age, sex isn't.

On a side note, it isn't a good idea to question someone's parenting.

#33 Posted by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

The pilgrims wholanded first in America mainly left because the European church was too progressive for their tastes.

I guess you can see some of the remnants of that today.

#34 Edited by Toxeia (725 posts) -

@Video_Game_King: I'd say it's all related, but watching Texas Chainsaw Massacre isn't going to make you beat up your spouse. I'd say that again, sex is the greater danger in this sense because it's used as a tool to manipulate girls. I've grown up in a very heavily Mexican-Macho area, and it's disgusting how often some poor girl gets dragged into a relationship, convinced to have sex and then it's used against her to keep her close to the guy.

So you're watching porn. Does it make you horny? You've got all these desires you need to get out of your system and your choices are: Let it go and take a cold shower, masturbate, or find a partner to fulfill those desires. You know the last one FEELS the best, so why not? There's that draw.

So you're watching Lethal Weapon. Dude just shot another dude, oh shit. Does it make you feel violent? Do you go outside and shoot someone? There are some people, particularly weak willed or with a disturbed sense of reality and fantasy, that would say yes. I assume that the mother in this case has done her job in teaching her daughter about consequences and how the real world differs from that of the media (tv, books, movies, games, etc.)

@white_sox said:

On a side note, it isn't a good idea to question someone's parenting.

I cannot stress enough that you need to build some kind of bridge of understanding between yourself and your future (hopefully? If not, why are you wasting everyone's time?) mother-in-law. You don't have to like her, but going around and saying you think she's a bitch is harmful, even if it's in your own mind. I do appreciate you trying to be civil about her around your girlfriend though.

#35 Posted by DoctorDanger99 (687 posts) -

@white_sox:

sombody needs to question her parenting but im done. this topic is becoming about my dislike for my girlfriends mother and shes not worth speaking about.

anyways. alot of you guys bring up some valid and good points.

#36 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@pyromagnestir:

Probably has something to do with all those Puritan witches. Or because nobody wants to have sex with something that sounds like this.

#37 Posted by Turambar (6895 posts) -

Being purposefully confrontational with the in-law only makes life harder for your girlfriend.  Agree to disagree with the mom and move on, no matter how justified you feel yourself to be.  Also, I find her perspective perfectly understandable though I ultimately disagree with it.

#38 Posted by DoctorDanger99 (687 posts) -

@Video_Game_King:

lol,so you DO have a sense of humor! i knew it!

#39 Posted by DoctorDanger99 (687 posts) -

@Turambar:

very true and your right. i just cant control how she makes my blood boil.

#40 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@DoctorDanger99:

I do?

#41 Posted by DoctorDanger99 (687 posts) -

@Video_Game_King:

it's there. you have to look for it but its there. very dry and witty. i like it. you should bust it out more often.

#42 Posted by believer258 (12189 posts) -

@pyromagnestir said:

@Veektarius said:

I don't need to tell you that rates of underage pregnancies are up - that's teenagers who got the idea to have sex and somehow calculated that the probability of a kid coming out of it weren't worth considering.

If you were able to keep them from getting the ideas in the first place, I think there is an argument to be made that incidence would actually go down. Now, given the pervasiveness of sex in media and the rampant word of mouth that'll go on in a school environment, this may be a lost cause. And once again, I'd rather just put everything out there and properly educate our kids about the world in advance. But I'm taking the Devil's Advocate position here and saying that your girlfriend's mom isn't an idiot for feeling as she does.

You can't keep the "idea" of having sex out of teenagers because it isn't an idea. It's a biological fucking function. Not explaining anything about sex prior to that is what leads to a lot of those unwanted pregnancies, because the horny kids doing what comes natural are ignorant to the risks or to the things that would nullify the risks because everyone was to afraid to tell them for fear they would do something they are going to do anyway.

I fucking hate humanity sometimes. I do at this particular moment. (I don't hate you veek, just to be clear) I don't know why. I'm just angry today.

To be fair, teenagers who are both educated on sex and all its consequences and who also don't watch a whole lot of sex on TV/in movies/etc. are probably far less likely to have it very often than a teenager who also knows all about sex and sees a lot of it glorified in his or her every day media.

To answer the OP's question, when most people see a lot of violence on TV and stuff, it doesn't often make them want to go commit violent acts of their own, especially things like chopping limbs off with chainsaws. Seeing that sort of violence doesn't make most people want to go perform those same acts. If it does, then the person has bigger issues.

On the other hand, watching two people have lustful sex incites feelings of lust in pretty much anyone, and they want that sex themselves. This is fine if you're, say, 20 years old, but for a 13 year old this probably isn't the best thing for you.

If I were a parent, I would rather my (hypothetical) 13 year old kid watch fantastical, out-of-this-world violence that makes him cringe than I would catch him watching a porno that makes him want to go have sex, chancing a child which I have to pay for and possibly ruining his life.

#43 Posted by Veektarius (5019 posts) -

@jozzy: And yes, you're right. I did admit that she is not being shut off from knowledge of sex, and so she is going to get some 'ideas'. If you were to take my devil's advocate position, the correct course of action would probably be to educate the girl thoroughly to make sure she has the facts first. But even so, forbidden fruit is one thing, but seeing attractive celebrities enjoying one another wantonly seems like it should be a stronger pull. I mean, that's the argument people make about smoking, isn't it?

Since I've been told to be more empirical, here's a summary for a study on the subject:

http://m.smh.com.au/national/health/net-porn-exposure-linked-to-risky-sex-20120520-1yz9w.html

#44 Posted by EpicSteve (6499 posts) -

Murder doesn't get you pregnant.

#45 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@DoctorDanger99:

I'd say that I'm telling it like it is, but Denis Leary has two children, so clearly, that is not how it is.

#46 Posted by DoctorDanger99 (687 posts) -

@EpicSteve:

if your doing it right it does :)

WARLOCK!

#47 Posted by white_sox (212 posts) -

@DoctorDanger99: I would be careful with that demeanor. Unless you think the child is being abused then I would avoid it. Especially in your situation, why burn the bridge between her and you?

#48 Posted by Excast (1040 posts) -

Consider the nation that we live in.
 
America has something like 40% of all of the privately owned guns in the world and a fairly high percentage of the world's prison population.  We spend 21x per capita what the Chinese, our biggest competitor, pays for defense.  We are an inherently violent people.
 
Couple that with the fact that he are also an extremely religious nation that shuns sexuality.  Look at how much stress we have over the idea of gay couples getting marriage benefits.
 
What you end up with is a country where it is considered more acceptable to see television shows like Walking Dead where hundreds of "people" have their heads blown/sliced/bashed off each season, but the idea of a character on the show flashing a boob is totally unacceptable.

#49 Posted by Vodun (2370 posts) -

What is her view on violent sex? Say if you decapitated a woman with a chain saw and then had sex with the neck hole? Would she be ok with everything up until the part where a dick enters the equation?

#50 Edited by DoctorDanger99 (687 posts) -

@white_sox:

theres no bridge to burn man. the woman literally only cares about herself. i mean that as literally as the word literal can literally mean.

ive been dating my girlfriend for almost two years now and i have seen her mother do terrible things. call her own daughter fat and ugly. trick her giving her money. use people only for that they can offer to do for her than quickly throw them away. work at a job making 20 dollars an hour and never show up for it and still get paid and then turn around give her daughter a lecture about saving money while she spends ten thousand dollars on horses only to turn around and sell them three months later and then complain she has no money.

i have zero sympathy or pity left in my soul for that woman. the day she dies will be a victory for planet earth.

thanks for the advice though.