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#1 Posted by Suicrat (3764 posts) -

Raidingkvatch has a mildly interesting blog post up about the Obama/Joker poster, and seeing the discussion surrounding it, and around the right's criticism of the Obama administration thusfar, I felt the need to raise a couple of points.
 
America was a socialist country long before Obama took power. So this sudden influx of anti-socialist criticism of the U.S. federal government seems to coincide with the installation of the Obama Administration in power.
 
Unfortunately, during the 8 years of the Bush Administration, the right did themselves no favours. Expanding the government's size and scope, and role in the economy exponentially (far beyond any previous point in American history) was coupled with the right's use of freedom-oriented rhetoric and it drove people to associate the hardship and misfortune of the Bush years with Capitalism and Liberty.
 
The truth of the matter is this banking crisis is not the advent of socialism in America, it is the fallout of years of mixed economy policy-making and an attempt of the central planners at the Federal Reserve to "moderate" the business cycle.
 
Having said this, the right is correct in their criticism of Obama, as his administration, and allies in the legislature destroy capital by the billions of dollars ( see Cash-for-Clunkers) and his desire to "correct" the ills of the U.S. healthcare system by driving an industry-wide cost savings program (which will, among other things, maroon families coping with rare diseases), and "reforming" it, by continuing the trend of the last 44 years in American Healthcare. The U.S. already has a semi-socialized healthcare scheme. In raw dollars, close to half of the total expenditures undertaken in healthcare are taken by federal or state governments, and entry to the health insurance market is deterred by the way the industry is regulated. Giving the currently-existing health insurers an effective oligopoly.
 
So yes, while the right is not entirely mistaken in criticizing the Democrats for the direction they're taking America in, my only question is "why weren't you raising your voices way earlier?"

#2 Posted by lilburtonboy7489 (1948 posts) -

I don't know, that's a good question. Maybe people hate him so much because of the fact that so many people blindly like him.  
 
The thing that people don't get, is that the Republican party is the big government party as well, not just the Democrats. As a matter of fact, lobbyists and government subsidies to big business were primarily the invention of the Republican party (See "Honest Abe").  
 
But really, I don't get the sudden uprising either. Let's see, Obama and the repubs are both pro-war, pro-central banking, pro-welfare state, pro-government subsidies, pro-price fixing, etc... 
 
There is no possible way that republicans can't critique Obama. 

#3 Posted by Delta_Ass (3282 posts) -
@Suicrat said:
So yes, while the right is not entirely mistaken in criticizing the Democrats for the direction they're taking America in, my only question is "why weren't you raising your voices way earlier?" "
 
You mean conservatives and Republicans weren't criticizing the Democrats before the Obama administration? They never raised their voices during the Clinton administration? Rush Limbaugh and other conservative voices only sprung up after October 1, 2008?
 
Get a clue, please.
#4 Posted by Suicrat (3764 posts) -
@lilburtonboy7489: As always, your insight is welcome.
 
It is useful for legitimate opponents of government expansion to illustrate the similarities between the Republicans and the Democrats, because it allows people to see clearly the source of the squabbles between the two parties.
 
What it ultimately comes down to is the representatives of Labour Brokers (unions) fighting for power with the representatives of the credit brokers (corporations). Neither party truly wants more freedom for the people themselves.
#5 Posted by Breadfan (6590 posts) -
@Delta_Ass said:
Get a clue, please.
#6 Posted by Suicrat (3764 posts) -
@Delta_Ass: No, the point is why weren't pro-freedom intellectuals and pundits criticising people in their own party? Why are they silent when they hold the power, but vocal when they don't? Why not be ideologically consistent, i.e., why not adhere to your stated principles?
#7 Posted by Delta_Ass (3282 posts) -
@Suicrat said:
" @Delta_Ass: No, the point is why weren't pro-freedom intellectuals and pundits criticising people in their own party? Why are they silent when they hold the power, but vocal when they don't? Why not be ideologically consistent, i.e., why not adhere to your stated principles? "
Um, they did criticize people in their party. Many conservatives opposed the expansion of government under Bush. Maybe they didn't do it as loudly as you'd have liked but hey, that's life.
#8 Posted by trophyhunter (5800 posts) -

the real reason is because the right disagrees with the left

#9 Posted by Suicrat (3764 posts) -
@Delta_Ass: But that's the whole point. For the most part, party members tow the party line, and bow to power. The principle of liberty is about as meaningless in the mainstream right as it is in the mainstream left, because the principle both groups actually adhere to is power.
 
But the main point of this thread was to illustrate this hypocrisy more clearly. The question at the end was more of a rhetorical device than a question to be overtly answered by thread contributors.
 
Having said that, your contributions are still appreciated.
#10 Posted by Suicrat (3764 posts) -
@trophyhunter: But as Burt pointed out in his post, that is simply not the case on a wide range of important issues. Including the ones being debated.
#11 Posted by trophyhunter (5800 posts) -
@Suicrat said:
" @trophyhunter: But as Burt pointed out in his post, that is simply not the case on a wide range of important issues. Including the ones being debated. "
 I'm on the side of people that think obama is destroying the country. If that's racist then it's obama that turned me racist
#12 Posted by Suicrat (3764 posts) -
@trophyhunter: But aside from the expansion of surveillance of dissidents, what is he doing differently from other presidents in the last century or so of American politics?
#13 Posted by trophyhunter (5800 posts) -
@Suicrat said:
" @trophyhunter: But aside from the expansion of surveillance of dissidents, what is he doing differently from other presidents in the last century or so of American politics? "
well he has not even been president for a year and he added $1,000,000,000,000 to the deficit, that's really bad.
#14 Posted by Akeldama (4257 posts) -

god i love video games

#15 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

So where's the part where you explain the title? It seems more like a debunking of the "free market" belief.

#16 Posted by Suicrat (3764 posts) -
@trophyhunter: But like I said. He's continuing the pre-existing trends. He didn't invent deficit-financing. He inherited it.
 
And I don't think I can definitively answer the question myself. It was more to show that if you consider that Bush and Obama did the same thing, the only difference is the colour of their party and the colour of their skin.
#17 Posted by tekmojo (2302 posts) -

Fox News still destroys all other news media channels in ratings. Doesn't surprise me at all, since they are pretty much the only bearable outlet for fair reporting. So, have fun libs watching your defective programs, maybe next time you are wondering why your voice isn't being heard, look at how left journalists report or do not report very important issues. Most use cheap tactics, especially seen with attacks on Bush during the war on terror. I don't see how this is any different with how American people want to let their voice be heard.
 
Reality check, some Americans aren't fools to the government and the media. There's a very powerful tool out there: word of mouth, also overlooked. Sometimes people want to let their voice be heard. Both sides have been known to organize, we all know that, this has gone on forever in politics. What's so bad about talking about legitimate concerns for our country? Should we just sit back and let the government do whatever they want, whenver they want without debating?

#18 Posted by Suicrat (3764 posts) -
@tekmojo: No, my point is not "Everybody shut up!" My point is speak up consistently.
#19 Posted by BRINKTheMovieMyFavoriteMovie (147 posts) -

Why on earth are you people discussing this here?

#20 Posted by MB (13138 posts) -
@BRINKTheMovieMyFavoriteMovie said:
" Why on earth are you people discussing this here? "
It's off topic, if you don't like to see threads not related to video games, click that little rainbow preferences icon and turn off Off Topic altogether.
Moderator
#21 Posted by trophyhunter (5800 posts) -
@Suicrat said:
" @trophyhunter: But like I said. He's continuing the pre-existing trends. He didn't invent deficit-financing. He inherited it.  And I don't think I can definitively answer the question myself. It was more to show that if you consider that Bush and Obama did the same thing, the only difference is the colour of their party and the colour of their skin. "
well no shit. that's like saying if two guys ate an apple, the only difference between them is that they are different people.
the problem with what your saying is they both did not do the same thing so your saying nonsense
#22 Posted by BRINKTheMovieMyFavoriteMovie (147 posts) -
@MB: Doesn't change the fact that this is a video game website. It's completely nonsensical to talk about stuff like this here instead of on a site where people actually know what they're talking about.
#23 Posted by MB (13138 posts) -
@BRINKTheMovieMyFavoriteMovie said:
" @MB: Doesn't change the fact that this is a video game website. It's completely nonsensical to talk about stuff like this here instead of on a site where people actually know what they're talking about. "
This is how we do things here. If you don't like it, you are welcome to find another website that is more suited to your liking.
Moderator
#24 Posted by PeasForFees (2411 posts) -

Left Mao and Stalin, Right Hitler, none good yet we all fall in these categories and if you say otherwise you are lying to yourself, go far enough left and you reach right, America has been socialist for a long while and China is one of the most Capitalist countries in the world it's all facades

#25 Posted by Suicrat (3764 posts) -
@trophyhunter: They didn't do exactly the same thing, but they both aided the trend of greater government intervention in the economy, specifically the healthcare sector. In Bush's case it was the Prescription Drug Benefit, as well as expanding Medicare and Medicaid. In Obama's case, we're not sure yet. Ultimately that's up to the legislature.
 
If you don't like government intervention in the economy, and you don't like deficit spending, you shouldn't like either Bush or Obama.
 
Also, to the two people questioning the need for this thread and others like it: The words "off topic" mean just that. There is no centrally-guided set of topics to be discussed in this forum. So if I want to discuss politics (and it's unfortunate that healthcare has become intertwined as heavily as it is with politics) then I will, and you can't fucking stop me, or anyone else with an (informed or otherwise) opinion they wish to share with their favourite online community.
 
 Isn't freedom of speech awesome?
#26 Posted by Everyones_A_Critic (6311 posts) -

@BRINKTheMovieMyFavoriteMovie said:

" @MB: Doesn't change the fact that this is a video game website. It's completely nonsensical to talk about stuff like this here instead of on a site where people actually know what they're talking about. "

This is Giamtbombica, and if you don' liek it you can giiiit out!  
 
I'm pretty surprised Keyzer_Soze hasn't chimed in on this yet.

#27 Posted by Breadfan (6590 posts) -
@tekmojo said:
Fox News still destroys all other news media channels in ratings. Doesn't surprise me at all, since they are pretty much the only bearable outlet for fair reporting.
Fox News and the words fair reporting should never go in the same sentence, or same paragraph for that matter
#28 Posted by Suicrat (3764 posts) -
@PeasForFees: Despite your apparent poor grasp of grammar and punctuation, you raise a good point. Regardless of branding and propaganda, America's economy is less free than that of China's.
 
 
Though the truth is, both country's economies are centrally planned to a great extent.
#29 Posted by TyphoonSwell (457 posts) -

Leave you politics out of GB!

#30 Posted by tekmojo (2302 posts) -
@Suicrat said:
" @tekmojo: No, my point is not "Everybody shut up!" My point is speak up consistently. "
Fair point. I wouldn't really consider myself a political type of person from day to day. In the past, growing out of my teen years, I never spoke out at all, I lived in a secluded world. Times change I guess, and there is no way one person can know everything that goes on in this country. I previously relied on what my instincts told me, or what my parents talked about. 
 
That's on a personal level. On a larger scale change, I believe there is certainly some backlash from the right trying to influence the American people to stand up against some of Obama's most recent reform plans. But I also believe people are just fed up with the easy way out, I'd much rather see a gradual change to our government than an abrupt one. But hell I'm just one person, and one opinion, everyone should have a right to speak as much as they'd like whenver they'd like to.
#31 Posted by tekmojo (2302 posts) -
@Br3adfan said:
" @tekmojo said:
Fox News still destroys all other news media channels in ratings. Doesn't surprise me at all, since they are pretty much the only bearable outlet for fair reporting.
Fox News and the words fair reporting should never go in the same sentence, or same paragraph for that matter "
I'll take it over any other news channel. That's not the only outlet I gather information from, but the more you know...
#32 Posted by PeasForFees (2411 posts) -
@Suicrat: Sadly my Nazi grammar ideals fall short during the early hours of the morning
#33 Posted by TyphoonSwell (457 posts) -
@TyphoonSwell said:
" Leave you politics out of GB! "
Heh, and your!
#34 Posted by Suicrat (3764 posts) -
@tekmojo said:
" @Suicrat said:
" @tekmojo: No, my point is not "Everybody shut up!" My point is speak up consistently. "
Fair point. I wouldn't really consider myself a political type of person from day to day. In the past, growing out of my teen years, I never spoke out at all, I lived in a secluded world. Times change I guess, and there is no way one person can know everything that goes on in this country. I previously relied on what my instincts told me, or what my parents talked about.  That's on a personal level. On a larger scale change, I believe there is certainly some backlash from the right trying to influence the American people to stand up against some of Obama's most recent reform plans. But I also believe people are just fed up with the easy way out, I'd much rather see a gradual change to our government than an abrupt one. But hell I'm just one person, and one opinion, everyone should have a right to speak as much as they'd like whenver they'd like to. "
 
 
Truer words haven't yet been spoken in this thread. 
 
Though I also agree that gradual freedom expansion is more feasible than a complete reversal of current trends.
#35 Posted by Suicrat (3764 posts) -
@TyphoonSwell: By attempting to command me out of a certain line of discussion, you are technically being more political than I am being. I am discussing an issue, and you are attempting to use force. So I could try to say the same to you, but that would make me a double-hypocrite.
#36 Posted by SonicFire (821 posts) -

I think your premise is flawed in general. Politics isn't about giving a consistent message, since when was that the case? It's about adapting the message to stay in power. It matters not how well or poorly the country is run: everyone who is on the outside wants to be on the inside, if this was not the case, there wouldn't be political parties. 

#37 Posted by Snipzor (3317 posts) -

I think it needs to be said that the "left" thinks the right is racist because of the tea parties (Tea baggers). Why not, I mean when almost half of the southern states constituents think Obama is Kenyan, well you have a definite problem and of course people will think that is racist (It is). 
 
Also, this cannot be said enough. I laugh at your claims of socialist.
 

 
#38 Posted by TyphoonSwell (457 posts) -
@Suicrat: Huh...? Being forceful is being political?!?!!? B-b-b-but...I'm anti-politics... Or am I....?! Oh ghad, no!
#39 Posted by Manhattan_Project (2178 posts) -
@Br3adfan said:
"Fox News and the words fair reporting should never go in the same sentence, or same paragraph for that matter"
#40 Posted by TyphoonSwell (457 posts) -
@Manhattan_Project: YAS!
#41 Posted by Suicrat (3764 posts) -

  @Snipzor: That graph plots arbitrary points on a grid and somehow it's meaningful?
 
McCain and Obama have no substantive ideological difference: they both believe central banking, government intervention in healthcare, the pre-emptive use of military force, and establishing supranational diplomatic frameworks should not be tied to political ideology.
 
So what exactly causes McCain to sit further right than Obama? And what is the difference between "left" and "right" as expressed on that graph?
 
 
I'm gonna go play some NHL 09. Here's hoping I've got some answers when I get back. You don't have to respond however. Then again, you probably already knew that.
 
P.S.: I'm totally baffled how an environmentalist could occupy any quadrant of the "Libertarian" side of the equator. This ultimately is what undermines the legitimacy of that graph in my mind.

#42 Posted by Atomic_Tangerine (359 posts) -
@tekmojo:
Sometimes, I wonder if stuff like this is even for real.  Do you actually think Fox News is the highest standard of journalistic integrity?  You don't notice any bias?  You do understand that it was created from the start to be for Republicans, right?  Like that's not me just throwing stuff around, the channel was actually started by the same people who help produce Rush Limbaugh's radio show, and it is going after the same audience. 
 
We actually talked about this in a marketing class I took.  Before Fox News, most viewers thought CNN did a real good job.  Once Fox News started getting big, Republican voters opinion of CNN dropped real fast.
#43 Posted by TyphoonSwell (457 posts) -
@Suicrat:  Once I created something called a Thrreeito, it's a burrito, in another burrito, in the heart of that very same burrito. It's a mind exploder, I know, but you don't hear me bragging about it all over your face.
#44 Posted by Snipzor (3317 posts) -
@Suicrat said:
"   @Snipzor: That graph plots arbitrary points on a grid and somehow it's meaningful?   McCain and Obama have no substantive ideological difference: they both believe central banking, government intervention in healthcare, the pre-emptive use of military force, and establishing supranational diplomatic frameworks should not be tied to political ideology.  So what exactly causes McCain to sit further right than Obama? And what is the difference between "left" and "right" as expressed on that graph?   I'm gonna go play some NHL 09. Here's hoping I've got some answers when I get back. You don't have to respond however. Then again, you probably already knew that.  P.S.: I'm totally baffled how an environmentalist could occupy any quadrant of the "Libertarian" side of the equator. This ultimately is what undermines the legitimacy of that graph in my mind. "
That second to last sentence told me everything I need to know. Let it also be known I am what is called a "Libertarian Socialist", now any person who plays politics thinks that the two are completely separate, but libertarian is just another axis on the graph which has to do with social attitudes (Rights as well as protectionism). Libertarian can mean for some people "People first", that doesn't necessarily mean that the government has no part. In fact in every instance the action of government can put people first in the future, which would explain why Ron Paul is not actually a libertarian if you know his policies towards social advancements (Graph/comment to be seen later, give me some time as I am playing Braid as I write, waiting for the next 1 vs 100 round). 
 
Now being a political junkie (Literally), I can obviously tell that Obama has grown more authoritarian and right wing, explanation to be very soon. A slight move to being more authoritarian can be seen the way he stalls with two different social policies. One being Don't Ask Don't Tell and DOMA. In his campaign he expressed that he would immediately repeal both laws, and yet no action but rather denial. The second being healthcare, going from single payer to government option (Government option being a more right wing policy, as it gives the insurance groups more opportunities to clean up, rather than killing them with one swift blow). That explains the Auth./Liber. scale, but what about the Left/Right scale. Well again, the bailouts may be left wing, but it never sets up any regulatory laws. Or at least doesn't do so permanently.  
 
Need I also mention environmental policies utilizing government is still a libertarian position because it doesn't favour corporatist goals or profit and blah blah blah. Anyways, Obama is a bit more right wing since his election, and a bit more authoritarian. The end point is that the term libertarian has been perverted, and doesn't mean what you think it means.
#45 Posted by tekmojo (2302 posts) -
@Atomic_Tangerine said:
" @tekmojo: Sometimes, I wonder if stuff like this is even for real.  Do you actually think Fox News is the highest standard of journalistic integrity?  You don't notice any bias?  You do understand that it was created from the start to be for Republicans, right?  Like that's not me just throwing stuff around, the channel was actually started by the same people who help produce Rush Limbaugh's radio show, and it is going after the same audience.  We actually talked about this in a marketing class I took.  Before Fox News, most viewers thought CNN did a real good job.  Once Fox News started getting big, Republican voters opinion of CNN dropped real fast. "
Personally, whenever I get my news from a TV, (which isn't always the case), I have my own idea on what is reliable news to me, just like anyone else would. I like to also read AP reports since it is the objective standard. That is one the highest standard of journalistic integrity in my opinion. Sometimes you want a different look on an issue, naturally since I agree with most of Fox News programs; not all of em, I go there for when I want the information presented in a way that speaks to me.  
 
I believe that CNN definitely has had, and still has a chance to change things around. The media that reflects the people, is still a significant presence in American society. But for me, it simply does not reflect the majority of my own beliefs.
#46 Posted by trophyhunter (5800 posts) -
@TyphoonSwell said:
" @Suicrat:  Once I created something called a Thrreeito, it's a burrito, in another burrito, in the heart of that very same burrito. It's a mind exploder, I know, but you don't hear me bragging about it all over your face. "
is that like a hot pocket inside a hot pocket?
#47 Edited by AgentJ (8778 posts) -
@tekmojo said:

" Fox News still destroys all other news media channels in ratings. Doesn't surprise me at all, since they are pretty much the only bearable outlet for fair reporting. So, have fun libs watching your defective programs, maybe next time you are wondering why your voice isn't being heard, look at how left journalists report or do not report very important issues. Most use cheap tactics, especially seen with attacks on Bush during the war on terror. I don't see how this is any different with how American people want to let their voice be heard. Reality check, some Americans aren't fools to the government and the media. There's a very powerful tool out there: word of mouth, also overlooked. Sometimes people want to let their voice be heard. Both sides have been known to organize, we all know that, this has gone on forever in politics. What's so bad about talking about legitimate concerns for our country? Should we just sit back and let the government do whatever they want, whenver they want without debating? "

You mean the network that is reporting that Obama is looking to implement "death panels"? Oi vey. I'm not suprised that someone toting Fox uses a phrase like "Reality Check", of course a segment done by this guy.   
 
Edit: Tekmojo, CNN has plenty of Republicans on its show, along with Liberals and people who can almost be called unbiased (or at least their shows are). I mean, come on; CNN has Lou Dobbs. What more do you want?
 
For sure, Obama has done a lot of things I'm not happy about. He hasn't ended the illegal wiretapping programs, hasn't closed prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan with history of major abuse, and has said he will continue to hold foreign prisoners without any proof of wrongdoing. I can't forgive him for any of these things, and I'm shocked that true conservatives haven't picked up on these issues, as they fly in the face of everything conservatives stand for. Not suprising, since a true conservative network doesn't exist. Fox news should be that voice, but at this point its just a republican speaker phone. (BTW Conservatism doesn't necessairily equal republican, at least how I see it). Instead, Fox decides to take the non-conservative side of the Henry louis gates story, along with the rest of the republican party, just because Obama was against the arrest.  
 
I guess the point i'm making is that I think most "left" people know that most "right" people aren't rascist, but they may not see " republicans" the same way. 
#48 Posted by trophyhunter (5800 posts) -
@AgentJ said:
" @tekmojo said:
" Fox News still destroys all other news media channels in ratings. Doesn't surprise me at all, since they are pretty much the only bearable outlet for fair reporting. So, have fun libs watching your defective programs, maybe next time you are wondering why your voice isn't being heard, look at how left journalists report or do not report very important issues. Most use cheap tactics, especially seen with attacks on Bush during the war on terror. I don't see how this is any different with how American people want to let their voice be heard. Reality check, some Americans aren't fools to the government and the media. There's a very powerful tool out there: word of mouth, also overlooked. Sometimes people want to let their voice be heard. Both sides have been known to organize, we all know that, this has gone on forever in politics. What's so bad about talking about legitimate concerns for our country? Should we just sit back and let the government do whatever they want, whenver they want without debating? "
You mean the network that is reporting that Obama is looking to implement "death panels"? Oi vey. I'm not suprised that someone toting Fox uses a phrase like "Reality Check", of course a segment done by this guy.   For sure, Obama has done a lot of things I'm not happy about. He hasn't ended the illegal wiretapping programs, hasn't closed prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan with history of major abuse, and has said he will continue to hold foreign prisoners without any proof of wrongdoing. I can't forgive him for any of these things, and I'm shocked that true conservatives haven't picked up on these issues, as they fly in the face of everything conservatives stand for. Not suprising, since a true conservative network doesn't exist. Fox news should be that voice, but at this point its just a republican speaker phone. (BTW Conservatism doesn't necessairily equal republican, at least how I see it). Instead, Fox decides to take the non-conservative side of the Henry louis gates story, along with the rest of the republican party, just because Obama was against the arrest.   I guess the point i'm making is that I think most "left" people know that most "right" people aren't rascist, but they may not see " republicans" the same way.  "
actually o'reily is to left for me beck now that's a good guy.
but I don't need to be telling this to you J base on our passed conversations.
#49 Posted by AgentJ (8778 posts) -
@trophyhunter said:
" @AgentJ said:
" @tekmojo said:
" Fox News still destroys all other news media channels in ratings. Doesn't surprise me at all, since they are pretty much the only bearable outlet for fair reporting. So, have fun libs watching your defective programs, maybe next time you are wondering why your voice isn't being heard, look at how left journalists report or do not report very important issues. Most use cheap tactics, especially seen with attacks on Bush during the war on terror. I don't see how this is any different with how American people want to let their voice be heard. Reality check, some Americans aren't fools to the government and the media. There's a very powerful tool out there: word of mouth, also overlooked. Sometimes people want to let their voice be heard. Both sides have been known to organize, we all know that, this has gone on forever in politics. What's so bad about talking about legitimate concerns for our country? Should we just sit back and let the government do whatever they want, whenver they want without debating? "
You mean the network that is reporting that Obama is looking to implement "death panels"? Oi vey. I'm not suprised that someone toting Fox uses a phrase like "Reality Check", of course a segment done by this guy.   For sure, Obama has done a lot of things I'm not happy about. He hasn't ended the illegal wiretapping programs, hasn't closed prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan with history of major abuse, and has said he will continue to hold foreign prisoners without any proof of wrongdoing. I can't forgive him for any of these things, and I'm shocked that true conservatives haven't picked up on these issues, as they fly in the face of everything conservatives stand for. Not suprising, since a true conservative network doesn't exist. Fox news should be that voice, but at this point its just a republican speaker phone. (BTW Conservatism doesn't necessairily equal republican, at least how I see it). Instead, Fox decides to take the non-conservative side of the Henry louis gates story, along with the rest of the republican party, just because Obama was against the arrest.   I guess the point i'm making is that I think most "left" people know that most "right" people aren't rascist, but they may not see " republicans" the same way.  "
actually o'reily is to left for me beck now that's a good guy.but I don't need to be telling this to you J base on our passed conversations. "
I'm not going to hold it against you, but I could barely read what you typed.  
 
Oh yeah, good old Beck. He's perfectly sane and all, and I'm so proud that he is a product of my very own state. 
#50 Edited by trophyhunter (5800 posts) -
@AgentJ said:

" @trophyhunter said:

" @AgentJ said:
" @tekmojo said:
" Fox News still destroys all other news media channels in ratings. Doesn't surprise me at all, since they are pretty much the only bearable outlet for fair reporting. So, have fun libs watching your defective programs, maybe next time you are wondering why your voice isn't being heard, look at how left journalists report or do not report very important issues. Most use cheap tactics, especially seen with attacks on Bush during the war on terror. I don't see how this is any different with how American people want to let their voice be heard. Reality check, some Americans aren't fools to the government and the media. There's a very powerful tool out there: word of mouth, also overlooked. Sometimes people want to let their voice be heard. Both sides have been known to organize, we all know that, this has gone on forever in politics. What's so bad about talking about legitimate concerns for our country? Should we just sit back and let the government do whatever they want, whenver they want without debating? "
You mean the network that is reporting that Obama is looking to implement "death panels"? Oi vey. I'm not suprised that someone toting Fox uses a phrase like "Reality Check", of course a segment done by this guy.   For sure, Obama has done a lot of things I'm not happy about. He hasn't ended the illegal wiretapping programs, hasn't closed prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan with history of major abuse, and has said he will continue to hold foreign prisoners without any proof of wrongdoing. I can't forgive him for any of these things, and I'm shocked that true conservatives haven't picked up on these issues, as they fly in the face of everything conservatives stand for. Not suprising, since a true conservative network doesn't exist. Fox news should be that voice, but at this point its just a republican speaker phone. (BTW Conservatism doesn't necessairily equal republican, at least how I see it). Instead, Fox decides to take the non-conservative side of the Henry louis gates story, along with the rest of the republican party, just because Obama was against the arrest.   I guess the point i'm making is that I think most "left" people know that most "right" people aren't rascist, but they may not see " republicans" the same way.  "
actually o'reily is to left for me beck now that's a good guy.but I don't need to be telling this to you J base on our passed conversations. "
I'm not going to hold it against you, but I could barely read what you typed.  
 
Oh yeah, good old Beck. He's perfectly sane and all, and I'm so proud that he is a product of my very own state.  "
well I meant J as in you agentJ
and he's crazy for defending himself from a moron?