Why the stigma of creepiness behind Japanese fan service?

@Colourful_Hippie said:

@Brendan said:

@Turambar said:

@Brendan: If you like the gratuitous violence in MK fatalities, then you like fan service. Just putting that out there.

It's clear you are feeling defensive about Japanese fan service, because not only did your comment have nothing to do with mine, it even throws in some qualifying example that had no bearing on anything to do with me either. Did I mention MK? Did I play it? Do I have an opinion on it? Those are some facts you should know before you try to defend you position (even though I didn't necessarily attack it).

I would say that in terms of violence fan service then yeah he has a point and that in itself that stuff is also creepy to an extent just like the fan service that is being talked about in this thread...but yeah that comment does come off as way too defensive.

*note my comment to Brendan above. Both of you took my comment and ran it in the wrong direction.

EVA Unit 2 jumping from battleship to battleship while wearing a cape is as much fan service as is Misato's tits. I would just prefer people not unknowingly grouping both together and throwing them both out by using an umbrella term incorrectly.

@Turambar said:

@Brendan said:

@Turambar said:

@Brendan: If you like the gratuitous violence in MK fatalities, then you like fan service. Just putting that out there.

It's clear you are feeling defensive about Japanese fan service, because not only did your comment have nothing to do with mine, it even throws in some qualifying example that had no bearing on anything to do with me either. Did I mention MK? Did I play it? Do I have an opinion on it? Those are some facts you should know before you try to defend you position (even though I didn't necessarily attack it).

My point seems to have gone way over your head. My comment is not a case about being defensive of Japanese titillation. My point is a case of that word not meaning what you think it means.

Fatalities in MK are fan service. The extra lines a unit says in a Blizzard RTS are fan service. Long panning shots of gratuitously detailed mecha is fan service. Do you get my actual point now?

Dude, you should read my original post again. Nothing you're saying has anything to do with my comment. There's really nothing more to be said about this, other than that you caught some tone of disagreement from my post about a thing that you approve of, and did not read it carefully enough, and therefore have gone onto some train of thought that is independent of me.

@Turambar: Even though I interpreted your comment as defensive I still get what you were saying. What I'm saying is that fan service for MK (falling on the violence side) and fan service in anime (falling on the sexual appeal/etc) are both creepy.

This is an interesting question. I'm generally more on board with Japanese creepiness than manu, but there are still times it seems creepy. I would say the primary reason why it seems creepy is because of the lens through which things are shown - not because of the clothes that the girls are wearing. You're often shown things from the perspective of a creepy kid who's put his eye up to the keyhole or hiding in the girl's locker room where the girls dont' know they're being watched - maybe not literally, but that's the tone it takes. So, because the perspective we're given is that of a creep, it is creepy to watch.

@Colourful_Hippie said:

@Demoskinos said:

It "can be" but it can also be done badly or in the same fan service sort way. I mean did comedy "X" or horror movie "X" need to throw sex or nudity in the movie for it to move the narrative along? Nope! but they did because they know it will move tickets.

No they didn't which is why I roll my eyes at that shit just as much as I would to seeing fan service in anime. Which I've yet to even see where it's "done right" because I always end up being creeped out.

I laugh at the notion of it ever being "done right" because I haven't seen a single movie that I've ever thought that the narrative was in a better place because a pair of bare breasts were on the screen.

@Turambar said:

@bvilleneuve said:

Yeah, I can just look at porn if I want to be titillated without the titillation having any impact on a narrative to which I'm attached. I don't like to feel pandered to, I don't like to feel "serviced," and I have an instinctive distrust of anybody who goes to media to be pandered to or "serviced." I'm not going to outlaw whatever they do but I reserve the right to quietly judge them and scowl at them when they do their little real-world reenactments of their Japanimation.

If you enjoy Saints Row 3, you love getting "serviced". What do you think stuff like a character who only speaks in auto-tune is, if not gratuitous fan service? Actually, what is SR3 if not a game full of gratuitous fan service?

I hovered over the little envelope and saw the anime avatar and knew I was about to enter a world of pain.

Fanservice is only bad fanservice if it is at odds with the narrative structure and internal logic of the world and characters that it appropriates. Otherwise I wouldn't consider it fanservice, and if some semantician wants to argue me on that, well, that's their prerogative. There's a difference between something fans like that would be in a show or game or comic anyway and something that doesn't fit in for any reason other than to please fans. The Saints Row example doesn't work because the entire Saints Row world and characters are built around the idea of having an ever-warping internal logic, so fanservice in the gross way is actually totally impossible.

@Brendan said:

@Turambar said:

@Brendan said:

@Turambar said:

@Brendan: If you like the gratuitous violence in MK fatalities, then you like fan service. Just putting that out there.

It's clear you are feeling defensive about Japanese fan service, because not only did your comment have nothing to do with mine, it even throws in some qualifying example that had no bearing on anything to do with me either. Did I mention MK? Did I play it? Do I have an opinion on it? Those are some facts you should know before you try to defend you position (even though I didn't necessarily attack it).

My point seems to have gone way over your head. My comment is not a case about being defensive of Japanese titillation. My point is a case of that word not meaning what you think it means.

Fatalities in MK are fan service. The extra lines a unit says in a Blizzard RTS are fan service. Long panning shots of gratuitously detailed mecha is fan service. Do you get my actual point now?

Dude, you should read my original post again. Nothing you're saying has anything to do with my comment. There's really nothing more to be said about this, other than that you caught some tone of disagreement from my post about a thing that you approve of, and did not read it carefully enough, and therefore have gone onto some train of thought that is independent of me.

Your point: fan service is all titillation and such, and as such, you have come to dislike all fan service. My point: fan service is a term that covers much more content than something involving boob, and here are some off the top of my head examples in the video game genre.

Now, tell me, where did I err?

@Colourful_Hippie said:

@Turambar: Even though I interpreted your comment as defensive I still get what you were saying. What I'm saying is that fan service for MK (falling on the violence side) and fan service in anime (falling on the sexual appeal/etc) are both creepy.

I wasn't commenting on any potential creepiness of the violence in MK's fatalities. That was just the first example I thought of. I can replace it with Borderland's Dark Souls easter egg if that makes the comment more receptable.

@Demoskinos said:

@Colourful_Hippie said:

@Demoskinos said:

It "can be" but it can also be done badly or in the same fan service sort way. I mean did comedy "X" or horror movie "X" need to throw sex or nudity in the movie for it to move the narrative along? Nope! but they did because they know it will move tickets.

No they didn't which is why I roll my eyes at that shit just as much as I would to seeing fan service in anime. Which I've yet to even see where it's "done right" because I always end up being creeped out.

I laugh at the notion of it ever being "done right" because I haven't seen a single movie that I've ever thought that the narrative was in a better place because a pair of bare breasts were on the screen.

There's more to art than narrative. There are lots of films where nudity or even titillation are an important part the atmosphere or overall message of the film. Even some anime does it well. There's that great scene in End of Evangelion with Shinji and Asuka in the hospital room where the tropes of fanservice are used to make people who want fanservice feel like shit about themselves. I fear the point was lost on its intended audience, but it is what it is.

@bvilleneuve said:

@Turambar said:

@bvilleneuve said:

Yeah, I can just look at porn if I want to be titillated without the titillation having any impact on a narrative to which I'm attached. I don't like to feel pandered to, I don't like to feel "serviced," and I have an instinctive distrust of anybody who goes to media to be pandered to or "serviced." I'm not going to outlaw whatever they do but I reserve the right to quietly judge them and scowl at them when they do their little real-world reenactments of their Japanimation.

If you enjoy Saints Row 3, you love getting "serviced". What do you think stuff like a character who only speaks in auto-tune is, if not gratuitous fan service? Actually, what is SR3 if not a game full of gratuitous fan service?

I hovered over the little envelope and saw the anime avatar and knew I was about to enter a world of pain.

Fanservice is only bad fanservice if it is at odds with the narrative structure and internal logic of the world and characters that it appropriates. Otherwise I wouldn't consider it fanservice, and if some semantician wants to argue me on that, well, that's their prerogative. There's a difference between something fans like that would be in a show or game or comic anyway and something that doesn't fit in for any reason other than to please fans. The Saints Row example doesn't work because the entire Saints Row world and characters are built around the idea of having an ever-warping internal logic, so fanservice in the gross way is actually totally impossible.

That's an incorrect definition, and yes, that is in fact what I'm correcting you on.

(Also, way to fall into a rather dumb stereotype)

@Turambar said:

@Brendan said:

@Turambar said:

@Brendan said:

@Turambar said:

@Brendan: If you like the gratuitous violence in MK fatalities, then you like fan service. Just putting that out there.

It's clear you are feeling defensive about Japanese fan service, because not only did your comment have nothing to do with mine, it even throws in some qualifying example that had no bearing on anything to do with me either. Did I mention MK? Did I play it? Do I have an opinion on it? Those are some facts you should know before you try to defend you position (even though I didn't necessarily attack it).

My point seems to have gone way over your head. My comment is not a case about being defensive of Japanese titillation. My point is a case of that word not meaning what you think it means.

Fatalities in MK are fan service. The extra lines a unit says in a Blizzard RTS are fan service. Long panning shots of gratuitously detailed mecha is fan service. Do you get my actual point now?

Dude, you should read my original post again. Nothing you're saying has anything to do with my comment. There's really nothing more to be said about this, other than that you caught some tone of disagreement from my post about a thing that you approve of, and did not read it carefully enough, and therefore have gone onto some train of thought that is independent of me.

Your point: fan service is all titillation and such, and as such, you have come to dislike all fan service. My point: fan service is a term that covers much more content than something involving boob, and here are some off the top of my head examples in the video game genre.

Now, tell me, where did I err?

I erred in using the wrong term. However, it was clear what I was referring to, and you engaged in needless semantics based on terminology that was beside the point I was making. However, in the spirit of correcting oneself, insert the word "titillation" into my original post to make this whole conversation pointless.

@Video_Game_King said:

Because sometimes, it really can get creepy. (Probably NSFW.)

I kinda found that funny....until he said the word "sister". then there was a steep unrelenting dive from "this is not creepy but kinda funny" to "oh god, this is just wrong and sad.". I was wondering why he was teaching her about brushing teeth... i thought it was that she was an alien/ghost/demon/ other girl who knows nothing about earth culture. HOW THE HELL DOES HIS SISTER NOT KNOW WHAT BRUSHING TEETH IS??? ugh...that left a bad taste in my mouth....pardon the pun.

@Brendan: The fan service definition is a pet peeve of mine. I did not intend to offend, and apologize if I did.

@Demoskinos: Probably cuz there really hasn't been one (one that enhances the narrative). You seem to be focused on the nudity aspect of things which is only just a by product of a sex scene in a movie, those scenes (at least the right ones) are just there to progress the narrative forward. Personally though, I would rather they cut away early and go to another scene because we all know where that is gonna go and I would rather continue on with story.

EDIT: I take that back because I just remembered Shame. That is the one movie I can think of that did sex the right way and those scenes enhanced the whole movie overall because it gave more weight and understanding to the main guy's problem.

We, the west, helped create this:

So, yeah, not fanservice, but creepiness abounds.

Xenophobia is my best guess.

@super2j said:

@Video_Game_King said:

Because sometimes, it really can get creepy. (Probably NSFW.)

I kinda found that funny....until he said the word "sister". then there was a steep unrelenting dive from "this is not creepy but kinda funny" to "oh god, this is just wrong and sad.". I was wondering why he was teaching her about brushing teeth... i thought it was that she was an alien/ghost/demon/ other girl who knows nothing about earth culture. HOW THE HELL DOES HIS SISTER NOT KNOW WHAT BRUSHING TEETH IS??? ugh...that left a bad taste in my mouth....pardon the pun.

It was part of a bet.

@bvilleneuve said:

@Demoskinos said:

@Colourful_Hippie said:

@Demoskinos said:

It "can be" but it can also be done badly or in the same fan service sort way. I mean did comedy "X" or horror movie "X" need to throw sex or nudity in the movie for it to move the narrative along? Nope! but they did because they know it will move tickets.

No they didn't which is why I roll my eyes at that shit just as much as I would to seeing fan service in anime. Which I've yet to even see where it's "done right" because I always end up being creeped out.

I laugh at the notion of it ever being "done right" because I haven't seen a single movie that I've ever thought that the narrative was in a better place because a pair of bare breasts were on the screen.

There's more to art than narrative. There are lots of films where nudity or even titillation are an important part the atmosphere or overall message of the film. Even some anime does it well. There's that great scene in End of Evangelion with Shinji and Asuka in the hospital room where the tropes of fanservice are used to make people who want fanservice feel like shit about themselves. I fear the point was lost on its intended audience, but it is what it is.

Mission accomplished. That scene... nay, that movie... fuck.

@bvilleneuve: Yes, but I still think that end the end you can still find ways to create that atmosphere of a scene or address things like a characters motivation being directly because they were raped or something without actually showing anything graphic.

Whoa! People talking about Bakemonogatari and Nisemonogatari! I wanna join!

Bakemonogatari is far superior, no denying that. Nisemonogatari is what would happen if they took Bakemonogatari and decided to themselves - hey, let's take out half the plot, and replace it with filler and fan service! The episodes in which they actually confront the "villains" were really good in Nisemonogatari, but unfortunately that was only two episode out of an eleven episode show. Waaaay too much fan service - and that episode where he brushes his sisters teeth was really damn weird, I remember complaining to my friend that they wasted an entire episode doing borderline incest shit and NOTHING else. Seriously, Bakemonogatari was slow at times, but it NEVER wasted time like that before, ugh.

Relating to High School of the Dead (Another thing you all are talking about :O), I actually really enjoyed it. Though the fan service did get really damn annoying, especially the bathroom scene halfway through the show, the two guys are reloading all their guns, talking about how the world is going to shit, and how they are going to have to survive now, and then BOOBS!!! What the hell! It's so jarring. Not to mention the part where a girl is being eaten alive and you see her panties... What the fuck...

As for fan-service, yeah, it's weird, I'm not going to deny that. What I'm really sick of is the dumb as hell Tsundere craze that seems to be going on over there. Seriously, I don't see the appeal of a tiny girl abusing the hell out of her 'love interest'. It's not funny at all, and it kinda makes me pissed whenever I see it.

@Turambar said:

@Brendan: The fan service definition is a pet peeve of mine. I did not intend to offend, and apologize if I did.

Agh, alright, well I'm sorry for being defensive in return. It would have helped if your original comment had told me that I was simply using the wrong term. I confusingly perceived your original comment to be condescending because it seemed to skip to step two in a conversation instead of starting at step one.

for some reason i feel compelled to demonstrate a show that doesnt sexualize children moreso than it depicts their sexuality in an "interesting way"

ill just leave this here ..

@Turambar said:

@super2j said:

@Video_Game_King said:

Because sometimes, it really can get creepy. (Probably NSFW.)

I kinda found that funny....until he said the word "sister". then there was a steep unrelenting dive from "this is not creepy but kinda funny" to "oh god, this is just wrong and sad.". I was wondering why he was teaching her about brushing teeth... i thought it was that she was an alien/ghost/demon/ other girl who knows nothing about earth culture. HOW THE HELL DOES HIS SISTER NOT KNOW WHAT BRUSHING TEETH IS??? ugh...that left a bad taste in my mouth....pardon the pun.

It was part of a bet.

Specifically, if she allows him to jerk her off with her toothbrush, she can go visit the lesbian monkey basketball girl who walks around her house naked.

I didn't say the context made it better.

@smokeyd123 said:

@bvilleneuve said:

@Demoskinos said:

@Colourful_Hippie said:

@Demoskinos said:

It "can be" but it can also be done badly or in the same fan service sort way. I mean did comedy "X" or horror movie "X" need to throw sex or nudity in the movie for it to move the narrative along? Nope! but they did because they know it will move tickets.

No they didn't which is why I roll my eyes at that shit just as much as I would to seeing fan service in anime. Which I've yet to even see where it's "done right" because I always end up being creeped out.

I laugh at the notion of it ever being "done right" because I haven't seen a single movie that I've ever thought that the narrative was in a better place because a pair of bare breasts were on the screen.

There's more to art than narrative. There are lots of films where nudity or even titillation are an important part the atmosphere or overall message of the film. Even some anime does it well. There's that great scene in End of Evangelion with Shinji and Asuka in the hospital room where the tropes of fanservice are used to make people who want fanservice feel like shit about themselves. I fear the point was lost on its intended audience, but it is what it is.

Mission accomplished. That scene... nay, that movie... fuck.

What was really well done about that scene is probably the fact that Shinji immediately calls himself a piece of shit, and thus, is a pretty good descriptor for the state of his psyche at that point.

@FluxWaveZ said:

@LiquidPrince said:

Not in the slightest. I mean I don't think people understand the definition of creepy if they think that is creepy. Also don't you have a full body pillow anime character? That\s not "creepy" but it's definitely more weird then the image.

Oh? Then I'd love to hear your definition of "creepy"!

And what I really think is creepy is you stating that I have a full body pillow of an anime character! Haha, uh, where are you getting that information from?

There are a ton of things I find creepy. Anime, Fanservice anime, and Hentai are not generally in those categories. (Although sometimes they can be.) Also, I could have sworn you posted an image of youself in one of those post your own image threads with you holding a life sized anime body pillow. Unless I'm mistaken and it wasn't you, or it was you and you just posted it as a joke.

@Brendan: @Turambar

I just want to thank you both for having a discussion, instead of, you know, a drawn out argument where people fling shit at each other.

Like on most forums.

A little bit goes a long way. You are true internet heroes.

Yes I'm a little drunk.

@bvilleneuve: the single most awkward yet awesome moment of shinjis character development

@Turambar said:

@bvilleneuve said:

@Turambar said:

@bvilleneuve said:

Yeah, I can just look at porn if I want to be titillated without the titillation having any impact on a narrative to which I'm attached. I don't like to feel pandered to, I don't like to feel "serviced," and I have an instinctive distrust of anybody who goes to media to be pandered to or "serviced." I'm not going to outlaw whatever they do but I reserve the right to quietly judge them and scowl at them when they do their little real-world reenactments of their Japanimation.

If you enjoy Saints Row 3, you love getting "serviced". What do you think stuff like a character who only speaks in auto-tune is, if not gratuitous fan service? Actually, what is SR3 if not a game full of gratuitous fan service?

I hovered over the little envelope and saw the anime avatar and knew I was about to enter a world of pain.

Fanservice is only bad fanservice if it is at odds with the narrative structure and internal logic of the world and characters that it appropriates. Otherwise I wouldn't consider it fanservice, and if some semantician wants to argue me on that, well, that's their prerogative. There's a difference between something fans like that would be in a show or game or comic anyway and something that doesn't fit in for any reason other than to please fans. The Saints Row example doesn't work because the entire Saints Row world and characters are built around the idea of having an ever-warping internal logic, so fanservice in the gross way is actually totally impossible.

That's an incorrect definition, and yes, that is in fact what I'm correcting you on.

(Also, way to fall into a rather dumb stereotype)

A word's definition is its use in the language. Fanservice is only loosely defined at this point, and if we're going to make a meaningful distinction between fanservice and stuff that is just part of a work of art we should probably get to working on that now.

Also, what was my dumb stereotype? That somebody with an anime avatar is probably going to not care for the fact that I vocally dislike anime? If by "dumb stereotype" you mean "expectation built up by years of experience on the internet," then yeah, that sure was a dumb stereotype. Nothing against you personally, I just know that people's avatars communicate parts of their personality. Mine tells people that I like awesome things and am a generally awesome person.

@Video_Game_King said:

@Turambar said:

@super2j said:

@Video_Game_King said:

Because sometimes, it really can get creepy. (Probably NSFW.)

I kinda found that funny....until he said the word "sister". then there was a steep unrelenting dive from "this is not creepy but kinda funny" to "oh god, this is just wrong and sad.". I was wondering why he was teaching her about brushing teeth... i thought it was that she was an alien/ghost/demon/ other girl who knows nothing about earth culture. HOW THE HELL DOES HIS SISTER NOT KNOW WHAT BRUSHING TEETH IS??? ugh...that left a bad taste in my mouth....pardon the pun.

It was part of a bet.

Specifically, if she allows him to jerk her off with her toothbrush, she can go visit the lesbian monkey basketball girl who walks around her house naked.

I didn't say the context made it better.

I left that context out for a reason, damnit.

Well, at least you can focus on the fact that the bet started out as the brother wanting to protect his sister from a lesbian monkey basketball girl who wants around her house naked.

@envane said:

for some reason i feel compelled to demonstrate a show that doesnt sexualize children moreso than it depicts their sexuality in an "interesting way"

ill just leave this here ..

In a sea of semi-predictable anime season variety, this show will forever be one of the best that I have ever had the pleasure of watching. I love Nichijou's crazy humour.

@envane said:

for some reason i feel compelled to demonstrate a show that doesnt sexualize children moreso than it depicts their sexuality in an "interesting way"

ill just leave this here ..

See, now there's something that I don't feel weird about at all. That was really well done and smart.

@Demoskinos said:

@bvilleneuve: Yes, but I still think that end the end you can still find ways to create that atmosphere of a scene or address things like a characters motivation being directly because they were raped or something without actually showing anything graphic.

I disagree. There are movies that handle stuff like that poorly, with it being treated as something as sterile as character motivation, and then there are movies that really dive headfirst into their subject matter and say something important about it and sometimes even include graphic scenes, and that latter type of film is often by far the more interesting of the two. Thing about Trainspotting. Does that movie retain any of its meaning without that stomach-churning shot of the needle poking into the skin? It's a small touch and it squicks some people right out, but it's important to the film as a whole even if it doesn't directly address plot or character motivation or anything. It's atmosphere. It's the film as a film first and foremost.

Yeah, I partly am putting so much effort into this post just to prove that I like things too.

@bvilleneuve said:

@Turambar said:

@bvilleneuve said:

@Turambar said:

@bvilleneuve said:

Yeah, I can just look at porn if I want to be titillated without the titillation having any impact on a narrative to which I'm attached. I don't like to feel pandered to, I don't like to feel "serviced," and I have an instinctive distrust of anybody who goes to media to be pandered to or "serviced." I'm not going to outlaw whatever they do but I reserve the right to quietly judge them and scowl at them when they do their little real-world reenactments of their Japanimation.

If you enjoy Saints Row 3, you love getting "serviced". What do you think stuff like a character who only speaks in auto-tune is, if not gratuitous fan service? Actually, what is SR3 if not a game full of gratuitous fan service?

I hovered over the little envelope and saw the anime avatar and knew I was about to enter a world of pain.

Fanservice is only bad fanservice if it is at odds with the narrative structure and internal logic of the world and characters that it appropriates. Otherwise I wouldn't consider it fanservice, and if some semantician wants to argue me on that, well, that's their prerogative. There's a difference between something fans like that would be in a show or game or comic anyway and something that doesn't fit in for any reason other than to please fans. The Saints Row example doesn't work because the entire Saints Row world and characters are built around the idea of having an ever-warping internal logic, so fanservice in the gross way is actually totally impossible.

That's an incorrect definition, and yes, that is in fact what I'm correcting you on.

(Also, way to fall into a rather dumb stereotype)

A word's definition is its use in the language. Fanservice is only loosely defined at this point, and if we're going to make a meaningful distinction between fanservice and stuff that is just part of a work of art we should probably get to working on that now.

Also, what was my dumb stereotype? That somebody with an anime avatar is probably going to not care for the fact that I vocally dislike anime? If by "dumb stereotype" you mean "expectation built up by years of experience on the internet," then yeah, that sure was a dumb stereotype. Nothing against you personally, I just know that people's avatars communicate parts of their personality. Mine tells people that I like awesome things and am a generally awesome person.

"I'm going to judge the people's posts by the images of their avatars before the actual written contents" is a very dumb category to fall into.

@Video_Game_King said:

Specifically, if she allows him to jerk her off with her toothbrush, she can go visit the lesbian monkey basketball girl who walks around her house naked.

I don't really have anything to add to this discussion, I just want to say that this post is one of the greatest, dumbest, "what the fuck" inducing posts that I have ever seen on the internet. I had to read it three times over to make sure that I read it right. It reads like a mad-lib filled out by a bunch of lunatics who communicated primarily through charades. Hot damn.

I don't even know if the show or whatever is bad or not, just holy shit.

@TheFreeMan said:

@Video_Game_King said:

Specifically, if she allows him to jerk her off with her toothbrush, she can go visit the lesbian monkey basketball girl who walks around her house naked.

I don't really have anything to add to this discussion, I just want to say that this post is one of the greatest, dumbest, "what the fuck" inducing posts that I have ever seen on the internet. I had to read it three times over to make sure that I read it right. It reads like a mad-lib filled out by a bunch of lunatics who communicated primarily through charades. Hot damn.

I don't even know if the show or whatever is bad or not, just, holy shit, man.

You know, context will only make the magic go away, but here it is. The lesbian with an evil monkey arm is also an extremely well known athlete in the school district. The sister, who is an athlete herself, but does not know about her nudism nor her monkey hand, wants to go and see if she can get any pointers from her, and asks her brother for permission. Her brother, who does know about those things, tries to keep her from going without spilling the beans.

There, I just killed the magic.

@Turambar: I suppose I never, "got" Bake or Nise. They never really clicked with me. Too much of what you said.

That and still frames.

@Colourful_Hippie said:

@envane said:

for some reason i feel compelled to demonstrate a show that doesnt sexualize children moreso than it depicts their sexuality in an "interesting way"

ill just leave this here ..

See, now there's something that I don't feel weird about at all. That was really well done and smart.

Agreed. Funny stuff.

@Turambar said:

@Video_Game_King said:

Specifically, if she allows him to jerk her off with her toothbrush, she can go visit the lesbian monkey basketball girl who walks around her house naked.

I didn't say the context made it better.

I left that context out for a reason, damnit.

Well, at least you can focus on the fact that the bet started out as the brother wanting to protect his sister from a lesbian monkey basketball girl who wants around her house naked.

What the what?

I'm going to sleep now. I have a feeling I'm going to have some really weird dreams tonight...

@Turambar said:

There, I just killed the magic.

A little. It's still pretty fucking weird but now it sounds like there's at least some semblance of sanity connecting it.

I'll always have that original post, though...

@Colourful_Hippie said:

@envane said:

for some reason i feel compelled to demonstrate a show that doesnt sexualize children moreso than it depicts their sexuality in an "interesting way"

ill just leave this here ..

See, now there's something that I don't feel weird about at all. That was really well done and smart.

In that case, I wonder what your thoughts are on this rather similar character in Lucky Star

@Turambar said:

@bvilleneuve said:

@Turambar said:

That's an incorrect definition, and yes, that is in fact what I'm correcting you on.

(Also, way to fall into a rather dumb stereotype)

A word's definition is its use in the language. Fanservice is only loosely defined at this point, and if we're going to make a meaningful distinction between fanservice and stuff that is just part of a work of art we should probably get to working on that now.

Also, what was my dumb stereotype? That somebody with an anime avatar is probably going to not care for the fact that I vocally dislike anime? If by "dumb stereotype" you mean "expectation built up by years of experience on the internet," then yeah, that sure was a dumb stereotype. Nothing against you personally, I just know that people's avatars communicate parts of their personality. Mine tells people that I like awesome things and am a generally awesome person.

"I'm going to judge the people's posts by the images of their avatars before the actual written contents" is a very dumb category to fall into.

I didn't say I had pre-judged your post. Every part of every post goes toward creating an overall impression of the post, its content, and its author. When I saw your avatar after I posted a pretty broadly anti-anime post in a topic about why people dislike some prominent parts of anime fandom, I started to steel myself. Was I wrong to assume that you like anime? Your detailed plot explanations about obscure anime tell me that no, I probably wasn't, but hey, I've been wrong before.

@Apathylad: I knew you would be in here. You had to be.

@envane said:

for some reason i feel compelled to demonstrate a show that doesnt sexualize children moreso than it depicts their sexuality in an "interesting way"

ill just leave this here ..

Oh my god. I died laughing. Especially after the goat.

@bvilleneuve said:

@Turambar said:

@bvilleneuve said:

@Turambar said:

That's an incorrect definition, and yes, that is in fact what I'm correcting you on.

(Also, way to fall into a rather dumb stereotype)

A word's definition is its use in the language. Fanservice is only loosely defined at this point, and if we're going to make a meaningful distinction between fanservice and stuff that is just part of a work of art we should probably get to working on that now.

Also, what was my dumb stereotype? That somebody with an anime avatar is probably going to not care for the fact that I vocally dislike anime? If by "dumb stereotype" you mean "expectation built up by years of experience on the internet," then yeah, that sure was a dumb stereotype. Nothing against you personally, I just know that people's avatars communicate parts of their personality. Mine tells people that I like awesome things and am a generally awesome person.

"I'm going to judge the people's posts by the images of their avatars before the actual written contents" is a very dumb category to fall into.

I didn't say I had pre-judged your post. Every part of every post goes toward creating an overall impression of the post, its content, and its author. When I saw your avatar after I posted a pretty broadly anti-anime post in a topic about why people dislike some prominent parts of anime fandom, I started to steel myself. Was I wrong to assume that you like anime? Your detailed plot explanations about obscure anime tell me that no, I probably wasn't, but hey, I've been wrong before.

Your assumption that I would immediately bristle at anything critical of anime is the very incorrect part. (And my criticism of you had little to do with anime as the fan service term can be applied to many different mediums)

@smokeyd123 said:

@Turambar: I suppose I never, "got" Bake or Nise. They never really clicked with me. Too much of what you said.

That and still frames.

Shinbo's distinctive animation style is definitely an acquired taste.

@Turambar: That was fine, it only went into weird territory with the whole making breasts grow but it wasn't over the top and didn't linger on it longer than it needed to. Shame that that's not the kind of stuff that I'm interested in anyways, I wouldn't be fucking bummed out if stuff like High School of the Dead wasn't just crotch shots galore. That shit is childish.

@Flappy said:

I'm usually alright with fanservice, but like most things, there is a point where it becomes overbearing. For example, I was pretty interested in High School of the Dead at first, but after a while, the random nudity and sexual shenanigans made me lose interest in it. Imo, Gantz and Tenjo Tenge have better uses of fanservice, if only for the fact that it is sprinkled throughout the story in small doses.

Yes, there is limit. I always use High School of the Dead as a prime example of a series that would be much stronger without so much fan service. Actually, I showed the series to a cousin and friend who never watch anime and we blasted through it in two days. I don't know if it was the zombies, the panty shots, or both, but they really liked it.

@Bocam said:

999 had fan service? I remember it being pretty tame.

Yep, and it's a really weak and stupid part of that game

@Daveyo520: Don't judge, Davey.

(And I'm everywhere).

@Colourful_Hippie: So am I a terrible person if I liked HoTD? I mean, I understand that it's kinda shit, but I enjoyed the cheese and the action.

I like shitty zombie films and B movies in general, so I guess that has something to do with it.

@Video_Game_King said:

Would I be overreaching to say that this conversation could lean too close to saying, "It's just Japan. They're just weird like that"? Like being Japanese is weird in itself?

The "Oh Japan" argument is starting to really piss me off, it just feels ignorant and lazy