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#1 Edited by OfficeGamer (1087 posts) -

This is a very simplistic thought that I'd like to share with you giant bombers and get your opinions on it.

Rape is a horrible phenomenon and it is destructive to a woman's morale and spirit and psyche, and sometimes body. It's a terrible thing and I do not condone rapists in any way shape or form, forcing another person into being sexed by you without their consent is a traumatic crime.

However I'm trying to understand this one point: Are women expecting men (most men, or even a large portion of them) to learn to endure and cope with their playful maddening ways and their no-means-yes methods and so forth, and somehow stop being horny testosterone-fueled dogs in the near future? It's disgusting and outrageous that men are like that and they go on and rape, they suck, they're trash if they commit such a crime, I AGREE, but that is irrelevant because it's not a simple hair-do that they can fix, it's a part of a lifestyle that millions of women condone and participate in! And even if you expect them to fix it, they just WON'T, it's not a political movement, it's fucking aeon-old nature.

I mean, it's not an excuse, it's a known scientifically-backed fact that men's dicks jump up in arousal much quicker and more often than a woman's body does, and it's been known for centuries that being sexually inactive and having that arousal clouds your mind and controls you like an evil spell that takes control of your actions and limbs. It makes you shiver. Why intentionally trigger it if you don't wish to follow through? I'm curious damn it.

So I'm just wondering, do (again, most) women expect men to no longer be maddened and freakishly confused/aroused by their teasing, playing hard to get, dancing a really filthy sexual dance then telling the guy off, etc.. in the near future? Are they really expecting this physical biological spell to stop?

I'll give you a simple analogy: You guys love Jeff and Ryan to death, so if I post shit about them, there will be a backlash, and no matter how long I keep doing it and how much I criticize and protest your backlash, hoping to end it, you will ALWAYS have a backlash. It's just how it is. And it's my fault for smack talking them, you didn't come to me and insult me, I triggered the chain reaction willfully.

Watch this video to get my point:

So Rihanna literally dances the dick off the big dangerous looking guy, then she expects him to not only shut down his dick that she stimulated, but she also expects his somewhat programmed mind (by society) to UNDERSTAND her sudden departure and to be OK with it. Me for example, and probably some of you, we're internet geeks and if this happened to us we'd go home to a bottle of wine or whatever because we're not a part of that 'cool club' dudebro shindig and we take such a letdown, swallow it and masturbate later on. But that guy is integrated in the sucking and puffing and fucking crowd, it's a norm for him, which makes it even more severe for him to just back off, because it's not a part of the "code" which SHE HERSELF lives by and condones (by being in a dangerous club dancing against a big guy's dick). The cool free sex flapping boobs code.

Disclaimer: I'm well aware that millions of rape cases have innocent victims who did not play with bad boys and flap their boobs against their faces in night clubs, however I'm talking about the over-arching issue of the teasing playfulness of women and how it directly and indirectly affects the mentality of men.

So the women WHO ARE PLAYFUL, NOT ALL WOMEN either keep playing those games expecting a miraculous change in the negative mind-fucking effect their games have on men, or they just choose to keep arousing them, then get attacked by them, then blame them for attacking them. The former is stupid, the latter is THEIR RIGHT to exercise but it's fucked up.

#2 Posted by Poppduder (460 posts) -

This is a very simplistic thought that I'd like to share with you giant bombers and get your opinions on it.

Rape is a horrible phenomenon and it is destructive to a woman's morale and spirit and psyche, and sometimes body. It's a terrible thing and I do not condone rapists in any way shape or form, forcing another person into being sexed by you without their consent is a traumatic crime.

However I'm trying to understand this one point: Are women expecting men (most men, or even a large portion of them) to somehow stop being horny testosterone-fueled dogs

I stopped reading there. The answer is YES. You are responsible as a man for not forcing down a woman and taking advantage of her. Your balls arent responsible, YOU are. You're a human fucking being, not an animal. The fact that we know right from wrong is what separates us from animals. If you want to use the analogy of being a testosterone-fueled dog, then perhaps you (I dont mean you,specifically) should be locked up in a cage and only taken out on a leash.... like a dog.

#3 Posted by AngelN7 (2970 posts) -

Oh boy...

#4 Edited by Jams (2960 posts) -

@officegamer said:

This is a very simplistic thought that I'd like to share with you giant bombers and get your opinions on it.

Rape is a horrible phenomenon and it is destructive to a woman's morale and spirit and psyche, and sometimes body. It's a terrible thing and I do not condone rapists in any way shape or form, forcing another person into being sexed by you without their consent is a traumatic crime.

However I'm trying to understand this one point: Are women expecting men (most men, or even a large portion of them) to somehow stop being horny testosterone-fueled dogs

I stopped reading there. The answer is YES. You are responsible as a man for not forcing down a woman and taking advantage of her. Your balls arent responsible, YOU are. You're a human fucking being, not an animal. The fact that we know right from wrong is what separates us from animals. If you want to use the analogy of being a testosterone-fueled dog, then perhaps you (I dont mean you,specifically) should be locked up in a cage and only taken out on a leash.... like a dog.

I agree. I've never had any kind of control issues whether it be from substance abuse or sexual thoughts that take control of me. To be honest, I can't understand how somebody could be so full of lust that they can't control themselves.

Online
#5 Edited by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

I know that this is off-topic but VIDEO GAMES!

#6 Posted by FunkasaurasRex (847 posts) -

What in the actual fuck.

#7 Posted by Slax (917 posts) -

Umm. This is a super victim blaming attitude akin to "if she hadn't dressed that way this wouldn't have happened". I don't agree with these ideas.

#8 Posted by Pr1mus (3904 posts) -

You know this will spark a mature and respectful discussion.

#9 Edited by OfficeGamer (1087 posts) -

@slax said:

Umm. This is a super victim blaming attitude akin to "if she hadn't dressed that way this wouldn't have happened". I don't agree with these ideas.

No, there's a huge difference between BLAMING her for dressing in a certain way, and between saying that her expecting to dance against a big guy's dick then tell him to leave is.. do I really have to go on? I can't find a word to describe such an action.

Bare in mind, I am NOT blaming her for going to a club, dancing sexually with a big stud, then choosing to leave. IT'S HER RIGHT AND CHOICE. But the consequences of such an explicit sexually arousing dance that reflects her sexual intentions and consent and, then, confusing change of mind on her part is something that will not change in a million years.

She can choose to keep doing that cruel stunt, she's a free woman, but to not acknowledge how severe of an effect it has on a man and to expect to walk out of there untouched is unfit for a world populated by humans.

#10 Posted by Bell_End (1208 posts) -

the fact you even had to ask this says soooooo much about you.

#11 Posted by oldenglishC (957 posts) -

@officegamer:

Do yourself a huge favor and delete this before anyone else reads it. It's awful.

#12 Posted by Poppduder (460 posts) -

Someone either missed my point or chose to ignore it...

#13 Posted by BeachThunder (11927 posts) -

I just feel the need to post in this soon-to-be monumental thread.

#14 Posted by Bwast (1342 posts) -

@slax said:

Umm. This is a super victim blaming attitude akin to "if she hadn't dressed that way this wouldn't have happened". I don't agree with these ideas.

No, there's a huge difference between BLAMING her for dressing in a certain way, and between saying that her expecting to dance against a big guy's dick then tell him to leave is.. do I really have to go on? I can't find a word to describe such an action.

Bare in mind, I am NOT blaming her for going to a club, dancing sexually with a big stud, then choosing to leave. IT'S HER RIGHT AND CHOICE. But the consequences of such an explicit sexually arousing dance that reflects her sexual intentions and consent and, then, confusing change of mind on her part is something that will not change in a million years.

Dancing with someone does not = "I want to fuck you.".

#16 Posted by cmblasko (1230 posts) -

Haha... ha? Please be trolling or parodying something that I'm not aware of.

#17 Edited by Poppduder (460 posts) -

So you're saying that, rather than expecting the assaulter to change, we should expect the victims to change? So, rather than stopping the Nazis during World War 2 in order to get peace, we should have just told the Jews and other less-fortunate to stop being so less fortunate? This thread disgusts me. I'm done here.

Edit: I'm starting to think OP got rubbed up on at a club the other night and it's been bugging the shit out of him that he's still a virgin.

#18 Edited by fragilenin (43 posts) -

Please lock this thread o mighty mods.

And yeah, you are victim blaming. Men should be in check of their urges. If a woman wants to dance up on some dude and then leave it at that, fine. The dude in the situation should be aware of what is going on. If his advances are denied, then he should stop and leave that woman alone.

This idea you have that men will never be able to change and that rape is part of what makes a male is ridiculous and says something about you more than anything. Rape/violence against women should not be considered a social norm. I feel people are educated to the fact that violence against women and rape is wrong but there is so much more that needs to be done. A prime example is the Violence Against Women Act that had issues being passed again. We as a society still have a long ways to go but this thread/idea put forward definitively doesn't do anything to move us forward. It only serves to push us back.

#19 Posted by Milkman (16779 posts) -

I'm on mobile so I can't post that Nathan Fillion confused GIF but that's what I look like right now.

Online
#20 Edited by Gizmo (5389 posts) -

OP makes some good points, deal with it. We are conditioned not to question such things, but our society and culture is leading to more stupid people doing such things and less people asking why.

#21 Posted by OfficeGamer (1087 posts) -
@bwast said:

@officegamer said:

@slax said:

Umm. This is a super victim blaming attitude akin to "if she hadn't dressed that way this wouldn't have happened". I don't agree with these ideas.

No, there's a huge difference between BLAMING her for dressing in a certain way, and between saying that her expecting to dance against a big guy's dick then tell him to leave is.. do I really have to go on? I can't find a word to describe such an action.

Bare in mind, I am NOT blaming her for going to a club, dancing sexually with a big stud, then choosing to leave. IT'S HER RIGHT AND CHOICE. But the consequences of such an explicit sexually arousing dance that reflects her sexual intentions and consent and, then, confusing change of mind on her part is something that will not change in a million years.

Dancing with someone does not = "I want to fuck you.".

Describing the sexual arousing dance where Rihanna basically let the guy mount her from behind, as "dancing." Wow you guys are out of touch with real life. You don't have to be a dudebro to realize the lifestyle and norms shared by dudebros and the girls who voluntarily share their dudebro lifestyle.

#22 Posted by LTSmash (624 posts) -

Hey everybody, it's Tuesday!

#23 Edited by Hitchenson (4682 posts) -

I knew from the title of the thread this would be something else.

I was right.

#24 Edited by mordukai (7150 posts) -

Ahh yes. The old "she made me do it". Can I invoke Godwin's Law now or is it too soon?

Gods...What the fuck happened to these forums.

#25 Posted by Jams (2960 posts) -

@jams said:

@poppduder said:

@officegamer said:

This is a very simplistic thought that I'd like to share with you giant bombers and get your opinions on it.

Rape is a horrible phenomenon and it is destructive to a woman's morale and spirit and psyche, and sometimes body. It's a terrible thing and I do not condone rapists in any way shape or form, forcing another person into being sexed by you without their consent is a traumatic crime.

However I'm trying to understand this one point: Are women expecting men (most men, or even a large portion of them) to somehow stop being horny testosterone-fueled dogs

I stopped reading there. The answer is YES. You are responsible as a man for not forcing down a woman and taking advantage of her. Your balls arent responsible, YOU are. You're a human fucking being, not an animal. The fact that we know right from wrong is what separates us from animals. If you want to use the analogy of being a testosterone-fueled dog, then perhaps you (I dont mean you,specifically) should be locked up in a cage and only taken out on a leash.... like a dog.

I agree. I've never had any kind of control issues whether it be from substance abuse or sexual thoughts that take control of me. To be honest, I can't understand how somebody could be so full of lust that they can't control themselves.

Again, I agree with both of you, I agree that the man is responsible, and I myself have never had control issues, but you guys are being UNREALISTIC. This is a far bigger issue than just some guy's personality and choices, it's a severely powerful sexual feeling mixed with the fact that SHE willfully aroused it which reflected her desire to fuck because that's a norm in society, and then deciding to walk away. I agree with you, we want world peace, but we can keep singing that song forever, we won't have world peace.

Also Jams while like I said I've never had control issues, with all due respect you are naive if you can't easily imagine how that guy in that club in that banging life style (a life style that dictates certain norms) after that sexual dance doesn't share our "will power."

I was in a band that played all of the best venues in town a couple of years ago. I was literally propositioned for sex on the spot. To the social norms of the area, each guy would have jumped at the chance but I turned the women down. Why? Because I'm not interested in some quick sleezy sex. I have enough control over myself to not turn into a fucking animal. I've also been in the situation where really good looking girls have been passed out drunk in front of me before. Still, no pathetic urge to attack them.

Calling me naive is funny considering how you sound like you're trying ever so desperately to convince yourself that what you've done of what you might do is okay. Maybe you should start thinking about the actions you take and how they shape the world around you before you start feeding your lust.

Online
#26 Posted by OfficeGamer (1087 posts) -

So you're saying that, rather than expecting the assaulter to change, we should expect the victims to change? So, rather than stopping the Nazis during World War 2 in order to get peace, we should have just told the Jews and other less-fortunate to stop being so less fortunate? This thread disgusts me. I'm done here.

No what I'm saying is that if I'm cussing Jeff and getting hatemail from this community, I should first stop cussing Jeff and see if the hatemail stops, and it probably will. If I stop cussing him/if I never cussed him to begin with, and I'm receiving hatemail, then I know I'm not causing it by my own actions, and then I will demand that you change.

#27 Posted by AlexanderSheen (5004 posts) -

Woah there, buddy!

What the fuck is going on here?!

#28 Edited by BeachThunder (11927 posts) -

@milkman said:

I'm on mobile so I can't post that Nathan Fillion confused GIF but that's what I look like right now.

I got your back (do gifs even work now?):

=( I guess not

#29 Edited by TooWalrus (13195 posts) -

I can't believe I read the whole thing...

In no circumstances is blaming ANYONE or ANYTHING other than the rapist acceptable. I don't care who she is, what she's wearing or doing or why, the second she says 'no,' it's the mans responsibility to back off, and if he "can't," he deserves to be behind bars for a very long time.

#30 Posted by Gizmo (5389 posts) -

I mean, look at 50 Cent trying to force a kiss with that presenter the other day. Now that is disgusting, something that the useless feminazis should be getting pissed off about, but no, they are preparing their Tomb Raider articles as we speak.

#31 Posted by Morrow (1829 posts) -

This is wrong in so many ways. I'm glad some guys seem to understand that. Still, all my hope in men is lost.

#32 Edited by Dacnomaniac (442 posts) -

You have a decent point, and it makes sense. I've always wondered this. Just like I've wondered if a girl has a rape fantasy/fetish and is annoyed at you because you didn't fulfill it, how exactly does that work? I mean, seriously, think about it...

#33 Edited by Marcsman (3192 posts) -

No means no. End of story.

#34 Posted by OfficeGamer (1087 posts) -

I'm a virgin who's only cupped a pair of boobs once actually, by the girl's consent, this thread isn't about me personally.

@mordukai said:

Ahh yes. The old "she made me do it". Can I invoke Godwin's Law now or is it too soon?

If that argument has some merit than can be backed by psychology and whatever science that deals with arousal and social norms, why swipe it under the carpet? Because you feel like a monster just by acknowledging that Rihanna had a part in her own harassment?

Watch the fucking video bro. Tell me what you think of it.

#35 Posted by Wraxend (564 posts) -

This is a terrible thread. I knew from the title it would be a man blaming women for the way they act, as the reason for them getting raped.

#36 Posted by Jams (2960 posts) -

@milkman said:

I'm on mobile so I can't post that Nathan Fillion confused GIF but that's what I look like right now.

I got your back (do gifs even work now?):

=( I guess not

Can I go ahead and one up you guys?

Online
#37 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4797 posts) -

You have a decent point, and it makes sense. I've always wondered this. Just like I've wondered if a girl has a rape fantasy/fetish and is annoyed at you because you didn't fulfill it, how exactly does that work? I mean, seriously, think about it...

I've been with a woman who had a rape fantasy. Generally it's not "surprise sex me anytime!" although some women are into that. Most of the time, I think, it's more "around 10:15 I'll be here so if you totally wanted to just jump in and do that nasty business that'd be great."

It's a... hard fetish to contend with. But you do it because booty.

#38 Posted by OfficeGamer (1087 posts) -

@morrow said:

This is wrong in so many ways. I'm glad some guys seem to understand that. Still, all my hope in men is lost.

Can you watch the video and give me your thoughts? I'm honestly interested.

@wraxend said:

This is a terrible thread. I knew from the title it would be a man blaming women for the way they act, as the reason for them getting raped.

I'm not blaming women for how they act, so much as blaming THOSE (not women in general) who bash a knee with a hammer then complain about the reflex. If you don't see how letting a big stud mount your ass in a dance club then walking away triggers hormones and a confused mind then I don't know what to tell you.

#39 Posted by Octaslash (528 posts) -

That ain't no dance I ever seen. That guy totally has a right to Rihannas ass. Not because she clearly wants it, but because all women are property of men, brother!

#40 Posted by AlexanderSheen (5004 posts) -

@milkman said:

I'm on mobile so I can't post that Nathan Fillion confused GIF but that's what I look like right now.

I got your back (do gifs even work now?):

=( I guess not

I uploaded the gif to my profile and tried to copy it here, and then:

"Your paste contained improperly embedded images."

That is horseshit.

#41 Edited by mordukai (7150 posts) -

@officegamer said:

@poppduder said:

So you're saying that, rather than expecting the assaulter to change, we should expect the victims to change? So, rather than stopping the Nazis during World War 2 in order to get peace, we should have just told the Jews and other less-fortunate to stop being so less fortunate? This thread disgusts me. I'm done here.

No what I'm saying is that if I'm cussing Jeff and getting hatemail from this community, I should first stop cussing Jeff and see if the hatemail stops, and it probably will. If I stop cussing him/if I never cussed him to begin with, and I'm receiving hatemail, then I know I'm not causing it by my own actions, and then I will demand that you change.

Or...and hear me out on this...that you are really an asshole and the theoretical hate mail you get from cussing Jeff is not really from you cussing Jeff but more like that people really think you're an asshole so the hate mail you got from cussing Jeff are really a byproduct.

I guess the reason my ex girlfriend got rapped when she was in grade school was because she wanted it, right. On any case i think you are a dumb ass.

#42 Posted by OfficeGamer (1087 posts) -

@fragilenin said:

This idea you have that men will never be able to change and that rape is part of what makes a male is ridiculous

Actually that's not what I'm saying but you didn't take the time to read my specific argument and you assumed I'm using that "common" argument, and I don't blame you, it's a long post, it's ok.

#43 Posted by Poppduder (460 posts) -

Count how many times OP says "big stud"

#44 Edited by gogosox82 (424 posts) -

God i hope this thread doesn't turn into a clusterfuck. Mods should probably lock this thread down before it gets out of hand.

OP, I don't really understand what it is your asking. Are you asking is it ok to be mad if a woman, in your opinion, flirts or acts in a sexually seductive way only to not be interested in anything remotely sexual? Or are you saying that women shouldn't be upset if society looks poorly upon sexual behavior? Again really not sure it is your asking but i'll try to answer.

A woman really has no obligation towards any perceptions you may have. Its not really her responsibility to worry about whether some dude is getting off on her dancing or whatever when she could just be dancing just to have fun with friends. That's really the guy's responsibility as a civilized human to not act on urges and fantasies and see things there that aren't. And if your urges are so intense that you interpret seeing a woman dance as her flirting with you then maybe you should see a counsler or something because that's really not healthy. As I'm sure your aware, women are sexual beings as well so they should be allowed to express their sexuality any way they see fit as long as its not infringing on anyone's else rights. So if society has an issue with women being sexual (and women are biologically prone to being sexual) then i think we really need to re examine society and why a woman's sexuality is seen as so threatening.

#45 Posted by OfficeGamer (1087 posts) -

@mordukai said:

I feel terrible about your ex, I hope she's OK, and I didn't say that women want to be raped. But thanks for stopping by.

Count how many times OP says "big stud"

Deliberately stressing it because he's not a fat forum junkie like me and - possibly - you. If you think you and him are equals in the dudebro dance club half-naked-everybody scene then you do not understand how the world works.

#46 Posted by Morrow (1829 posts) -

@officegamer:

I am going to quote Julie Winters from The Maxx here:

"I mean, guys are saying that sometimes no means yes, and honestly, sometimes it does. But I don't think for one second that any guy who's pulled himself off a crying woman has been mistaken for one minute about what she wanted."

So yes, I can understand that men sometimes see certain "signals" while a woman just wants to have some fun or doesn't even take it serious. So, the guy approaches, gets a no, and then? Then he decides the woman in question is a lesser being and doesn't have the right to have... rights? Like, not being violated?

This is exactly how rapists feel. They do not see women as human beings, only as catalysts for their sexual desire. I see some of that state of mind in your post.

BTW, there is also often the case where a man forces himself upon a woman without her doing anything of what you mentioned above. Unfortunately, a woman doesn't have to do anything to be molested. Oh, and don't forget about the earlier centuries, where women weren't even wearing or doing anything arousing, and were raped anyway.

#47 Edited by Wraxend (564 posts) -

@officegamer: Quick question say you knew a female family member who had been raped, and then you found out before this she had been dancing all sexy with the guy who raped her, will you be like "well you shouldn't have teased him".

#48 Edited by Beaker (94 posts) -

#49 Edited by Carryboy (675 posts) -

Remember the Giant Bomb forums? Those were the days.

As for the op i can only hope you are young (really hope) and that you will mature and look back on this thread and cringe. In case everyone else hasn't made it clear no means no. Forget provocative dancing, if your having sex and the other person tells you to stop thats it I like to think that my brain controls my penis not the other way round.

Count how many times OP says "big stud"

Drinking game?

#50 Edited by Bwast (1342 posts) -

@poppduder said:

Count how many times OP says "big stud"

Deliberately stressing it because he's not a fat forum junkie like me and - possibly - you. If you think you and him are equals in the dudebro dance club half-naked-everybody scene then you do not understand how the world works.

And you do, right? You're fucking insane. Do you think strippers are asking for it? They're completely naked and dancing sexually. Surely the fact that they're there to do a job isn't enough to dissuade those sex-hungry big studs. Once you see a woman moving provocatively, whip out your dicks, it's party time.