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#51 Posted by theguy (796 posts) -

@theguy: Why are we "supposed" to eat meat? As animals we originally adapted to an omnivorous diet, but nowadays we have the capability to easily get all the nutrients we need without eating other animals. Just because I can do something doesn't mean I'm supposed to. Personally I believe there are health benefits to a vegetarian diet, and the studies I linked to in my previous post can confirm that, and with a great deal of authority to back them up.

@psylah: Great job! Good post! Ron Swanson, am I right guys?

I clearly didn't mean "supposed to" in a moral sense. I meant it biologically. I could have said "designed to" but that would imply we were designed. In fact nothing in my post was about the ethics of vegetarianism. I was wondering why people physically feel better (as they have been saying in this thread) when they go vegetarian. When I said we're supposed to eat meat I meant we're biologically designed for it so stopping shouldn't have health benefits beyond the ones that come about in a weird indirect way (actually eating the recommended amounts of fruit and veg for example because you have to to survive). I assume that's the main reason but I'd like to know if there are any more like stomach chemistry changing or something. I find stuff like that interesting.

Like this.

I became a vegan almost 4 years ago. Feel better have more energy my allergies have gone away.

Do you know exactly why? I mean beyond "I stopped eating meat and animal products" do you know what you are now eating or not eating that made you more energetic and allergy free fiesta?

#52 Posted by Conzed92 (166 posts) -
#53 Posted by oraknabo (1426 posts) -

@conzed92: I eat a ton of grains and haven't had any of the issues the paleo/carbophobe crowd is constantly touting about phytic acid and gluten. Gluten is an excellent plant protein source and unless you have celiac disease it has no negative effects on human health or digestion. I've had a number of physicals and blood tests in the long period I've been vegan and don't have any problems digesting vitamins or any kind of nutritional deficiencies.

#54 Edited by Conzed92 (166 posts) -

@oraknabo: Well awesome! When it becomes standard practise to do advanced genetic testing, maybe you will find out that you have a genetic variant that allows you to digest grains relatively well. I am not touting any any specific way of eating, I was just pointing out some common problems with a vegetarian diet. I am glad that you are doing really well, that is absolutely awesome. Just me being curious, have you had your levels of testosterone tested along with SHBG? I would looooooove to see those measurements.

Also, I do not really care what people eat, as long as they stress the most important thing about food when obtaining it, quality. I think it is such a shame, I cannot stress this enough, that the paleo-vegan-primal-lowcarb-highcarb-rawfood-community has descended into civil war, when there is such an amazing amount of work to be done in the area of food safety and quality. The United Nations released a study a few years ago that had investigated the realistic use of organic and sustainable farming methods on a world wide basis. It literally shot out the kneecaps on the GMO-monster that is threatening our health. I think all citizens, despite of differences in what they consume for foods, should unite and demand GREAT food.

It is essentially what I am taking away from this topic, which is great btw, cool that somebody started it. It is a devine right to improve ones health, and if possible, then do it! :D

#55 Posted by President_Barackbar (3344 posts) -

@conzed92: Could you be just a little more condescending and passive-aggressive? I'm not sure you've made it clear enough.

#56 Posted by Conzed92 (166 posts) -
#57 Edited by Unilad (479 posts) -

#58 Edited by deadmoscow (259 posts) -

@unilad: Really, dude? Come on. This adds nothing to the discussion and makes you look like a jerk.

@conzed92: Interesting stuff - I personally don't have any sort of gluten intolerance, and cutting out rice and grains is absolutely not an option - they're staples that I don't see myself replacing. I feel kind of dubious about some of the more esoteric phytic acid / gluten etc claims, I'm just happy to cut meat out of my diet and start making conscious, informed choices about what I put in my body. Part of it is certainly my reaction to the American food system, which is deeply flawed. Would I eat meat if I knew it was ethically / sustainably produced? Maybe. Could I afford to? Probably not.

#59 Edited by Conzed92 (166 posts) -

@deadmoscow:

Okay, everyone has to do their own experiments. I envy you for doing well on grains :D I personally have had to cut all grains to fix a serious digestive issue, wrote about in a blog once, and it is difficult to keep sometimes, seeing how grains are practically found everywhere and their derivatives are in so much food these days.

I totally agree with you about the American food system. I cannot believe that it has gotten that bad, I mean to the point where other countries WILL NOT buy your industrial meat because it is so heavily polluted, I mean, wow, is money just that much more important? I hope the best for you now that you have changed your diet, and hopefully you will have seen some great results in 3-6 months time. Make a post about it at the time, definitely :D

#60 Edited by Amukasa (53 posts) -
  
#61 Edited by BrianP (348 posts) -

Welcome aboard @deadmoscow. I've been a vegetarian for a long time (though am a hypocrite because in the past few years I have started eating a limited amount of seafood). The hardest, yet most rewarding, part is learning to cook for yourself. If you are interested I could recommend a bunch of awesome cookbooks that I have been using lately.

#62 Edited by Aterons (198 posts) -

I always thought its silly mainly for medical reason.

Due to the fact that meat, beside what you might think, it's likely the healthiest thing you can eat in most situation because of its high amount of protein which most of the time help repair/regenerate cells and contrary to what many people think it doesn't make you fat... quite the opposite.

On the other hand a lot of "vegetarian" products have shit like corn syrup and what not that, unless you are very serious about working out and what not, make you fat very fast very easily.

That said there are of course certain vegetables that you can eat for proteins and if you buy vegetables and not pre-prepared products you shouldn't be dealing with any of that. Still there are medical experts that thing not eating meat at all is damaging, because we have digestive system and intestinal bacteria made for... you know, being omnivore. So beside what you might think not eating meat at all might be one of those "it's great now but wait until you are 60" or "it's great unless you are part of that 1% where certain bacteria in your intestine will react badly to it and fuck the intestinal flora up".

As for not eating cheese and milk that seems just dumb, in theory everything can be replace by pills even but you likely won't realize how much and what you have to eat to be healthy until the health problem appear, and those can be observed via you having less energy or when your knee cap snaps due to lack of calcium.

So all i am saying is that being a vegetarian can have it's danger and being a vegan is down right stupid unless you really fucking know what you are doing... and it's still kinda time consuming even then.

Personally I like being born an omnivore, most highly evolved mammals are and I like to think of myself as being part of that category.

#63 Edited by oraknabo (1426 posts) -

@aterons said:

As for not eating cheese and milk that seems just dumb, in theory everything can be replace by pills even but you likely won't realize how much and what you have to eat to be healthy until the health problem appear, and those can be observed via you having less energy or when your knee cap snaps due to lack of calcium.

So all i am saying is that being a vegetarian can have it's danger and being a vegan is down right stupid unless you really fucking know what you are doing... and it's still kinda time consuming even then.

I'm not trying to push anyone into veganism here, but this is just wrong. First, there is a lot of calcium in a lot of vegetable sources, especially leafy greens. Where do you think cows get it from in the first place? Grass.

There is no requirement for a human to drink any kind of milk after being weaned off of breastfeeding.

"It's not natural for humans to drink cow's milk. Humans milk is for humans. Cow's milk is for calves. You have no more need of cow's milk than you do rats milk, horses milk or elephant's milk. Cow's milk is a high fat fluid exquisitely designed to turn a 65 lb baby calf into a 400 lb cow. That's what cow's milk is for." --Dr Michael Klaper MD

@aterons said:

Due to the fact that meat, beside what you might think, it's likely the healthiest thing you can eat in most situation because of its high amount of protein which most of the time help repair/regenerate cells and contrary to what many people think it doesn't make you fat... quite the opposite.

High protein is far from the only requirement for healthful eating. And the saturated fats in meat can easily make you fat if you exceed your required calories on a regular basis.

@aterons said:

Still there are medical experts that thing not eating meat at all is damaging, because we have digestive system and intestinal bacteria made for... you know, being omnivore. So beside what you might think not eating meat at all might be one of those "it's great now but wait until you are 60" or "it's great unless you are part of that 1% where certain bacteria in your intestine will react badly to it and fuck the intestinal flora up".

Who are these medical experts?

"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes."

Also, being an omnivore means you don't need meat, you can eat it, but since you're not a carnivore you can subsist just fine on plants, just like dogs.

I don't understand the connection between meat and intestinal flora. The main thing that feeds intestinal flora is insoluble fiber which only comes from plants. The more fiber you eat, the more healthy your gut flora is.

#64 Posted by fox01313 (5032 posts) -

Rather costly to be all vegetarian or just finding things to eat that aren't the same thing is what I found when trying something like this diet in college, glad that I at least was including fish to all veggie/fruit/bread. Learned my lesson & just not for me though it did branch out my food tastes some to enjoy things I might not have tried before.

#65 Edited by Unilad (479 posts) -

@deadmoscow:

Dude. If you actually cared about this thread. You would have read all the responses. I know you have not done this as I posted a genuine response much earlier in the thread. The picture was light hearted humour.

Who's the jerk now?

#66 Posted by bennyboy (327 posts) -

I was a vegan for 3 years, but demoted myself to vegetarian thereafter because it was just too much of a hassle having to worry about what i can eat (if anything at all) when I go out to eat with people at restaurants and what not. I'd like to go back to it though, but it'd probably be easier if I made more vegan friends or something.

#67 Posted by deadmoscow (259 posts) -

@bennyboy: Do you live in a big city at all? In a small town or a rural area, it can be damn near impossible to find restaurants that have vegan options, let alone vegetarian. I used to live in a big college town (Bloomington, IN), and you couldn't throw a rock in any direction without hitting a restaurant that had vegetarian / vegan / gluten free / kosher / halal menu items. It's easier to quit smoking if you're not surrounded by smokers all of the time, just like it's easier to stop eating meat if you have the option to not be exposed to it at all.

@Unilad okay I'm sorry, I just think the whole Ron Swanson character is fucking dumb which is probably why I called you out. No hard feelings. (To address your earlier post, I'm more concerned with weight loss and ethical issues at this point than maintaining appreciable muscle mass, which is certainly a bridge I'll cross when I get to it.)

To get this shit back on track, I don't spent a lot of evenings at home due to work and school, but this is the first time this week my fiancee and I have had the time to sit down to a good home cooked meal. Honestly I kind of drew a blank when I was trying to think of what to make for dinner. It was like "pasta...sauce...then what?" Like I've been completely locked into the idea of frying up a couple of sausages that I just couldn't think of any alternative. In the meantime, we actually had a couple of those crazy vegan fake meat sausages in the fridge, so I tossed those in some hearty tomato sauce with hot peppers and garlic, cracked open a bottle of three dollar wine, and had a delicious, totally vegan meal. It felt like a bit of a cheat, but hey, it's a start.

#68 Posted by Unilad (479 posts) -

@deadmoscow:
Hey man, yeah none at all. |

Now....that meal you mentioned was a standard when I was vegetarian, I still make it to this day. Just no wine.....I have Pabst. (cue all the hipster bullshit)


#69 Posted by Vinny_Says (5630 posts) -

I've never lived a vegetarian lifestyle nor do I ever plan to so I don't have much to bring to the table, but reading through this thread made me think about this whole food culture in America (I'm assuming most of the posters live in N.A.).

I myself am a foreigner and throughout my life I've been around a wide variety of foreign cultures and it seemed like none of them ever had these deep discussions about what they ate. They have their traditional dishes, they eat them, and they move on. It's always been so simple within my family and within my circle of friends/aqcuaintances. I'm even willing to bet, OP, that when you were in India nobody gave a shit about "calorie counting" and "nutritional tables" and everything else I seem to see every armchair expert talk about on TV, books and the internet these days when it comes to food. Why the need to defend one's eating habits or berate another's? (This thread is cool, but it's easy to find the crazy threads on the internet)

I'm not trying to disparage american food culture, but I'm really interseted in this almost schizophrenic approach to food that seems so prevalent here.

#70 Posted by chrissedoff (2041 posts) -

@theguy: Human beings are not biologically predisposed to eat meat. If we were, we'd be able to safely digest meat without having to cook a lot of the nutrients out of it first. The species closest to us biologically are all herbivores. We've been eating meat because it's tasty, nothing more to it than that.

#72 Edited by deadmoscow (259 posts) -

@vinny_says: I think the American food culture is discussed so frequently because it's so deeply flawed. Everyone is counting calories and trying to categorize the perfect diet because everybody is getting inexplicably fatter and fatter and fatter. In America, if you're in a bad situation it's automatically your fault (poor, marginalized, unhealthy), so a lot of the discussion has been how you, personally can stop fucking up your life with the poor food choices you make when it should rightly be focused on the poor food choices companies like Monsanto and Tyson and Perdue make for everyone without their consent.

Just a thought.

#74 Edited by NerdOnAWire (22 posts) -

I've been a vegetarian for almost three years now, and all told, the transition was a snap. I quit cold-turkey, but if you're unsure about the decision, ease your way into it. Replace burgers with grilled mushroom caps, that sort of thing.

How family and friends felt about it was another story. Getting burgers literally shoved in your mouth, having someone stir a chicken-fat-covered spoon into the food you made for yourself, and being berated about it at every opportunity isn't fun. But you learn to deal with it, and eventually they'll stop. I sincerely hope that doesn't happen to you, but people here are oddly concerned with what other people eat, to a really creepy level. I don't get why some people have such a hatred for vegetarians/vegans. Some are super self-righteous, but the same can be said of people who eat meat. I don't judge you, so why judge me?

The first thing to do, as others have said, is find a reliable (and cheap) source of protein. Nuts, chickpeas, quinoa, soymilk/yogurt are all great. I don't eat a lot in the first place, so a package of four Boca Original Vegan burgers lasts me about a week and costs around $3.50. Don't waste money on canned beans and vegetables, fresh veggies and dried beans are almost always going to be cheaper in bulk.

The next thing to do is find ways to make your favorite meat dishes without the meat. As I previously mentioned, mushroom burgers are wonderful, as are wraps with grilled tofu in place of chicken. Polenta is Capital-F-Fantastic as well.

Unless you have the money, don't waste your time with specialized products other than soymilk and the like. 75% of the prepackaged stuff in a grocery store's "health/organic market" can be made by hand for a fraction of the cost. The Boca burgers I mentioned are the exception for me, as I don't have the room/equipment that making patties requires.

Stick with it though. Once you get past the initial few hurdles, it's easy.

#75 Edited by theguy (796 posts) -

@chrissedoff said:

@theguy: Human beings are not biologically predisposed to eat meat. If we were, we'd be able to safely digest meat without having to cook a lot of the nutrients out of it first. The species closest to us biologically are all herbivores. We've been eating meat because it's tasty, nothing more to it than that.

What? Of course we're biologically predisposed to eat meat. Ask a doctor / biology teacher / anyone. The simplest evidence for it is our teeth, our canines are clearly designed for tearing meat. If you actually told people who know anything about human biology that "we're herbivores who just like the taste of meat" you'd be laughed out of the room. Hell even the fact that many vegetarians (quite a few in this thread) recommend a very specific diet or supplements to stay healthy is evidence enough. I have no problem with vegetarianism but if you actually think that's the way people are biologically designed you're either severely misinformed or deluded.

#76 Posted by Aterons (198 posts) -

@oraknabo said:

@aterons said:

As for not eating cheese and milk that seems just dumb, in theory everything can be replace by pills even but you likely won't realize how much and what you have to eat to be healthy until the health problem appear, and those can be observed via you having less energy or when your knee cap snaps due to lack of calcium.

So all i am saying is that being a vegetarian can have it's danger and being a vegan is down right stupid unless you really fucking know what you are doing... and it's still kinda time consuming even then.

I'm not trying to push anyone into veganism here, but this is just wrong. First, there is a lot of calcium in a lot of vegetable sources, especially leafy greens. Where do you think cows get it from in the first place? Grass.

There is no requirement for a human to drink any kind of milk after being weaned off of breastfeeding.

"It's not natural for humans to drink cow's milk. Humans milk is for humans. Cow's milk is for calves. You have no more need of cow's milk than you do rats milk, horses milk or elephant's milk. Cow's milk is a high fat fluid exquisitely designed to turn a 65 lb baby calf into a 400 lb cow. That's what cow's milk is for." --Dr Michael Klaper MD

@aterons said:

Due to the fact that meat, beside what you might think, it's likely the healthiest thing you can eat in most situation because of its high amount of protein which most of the time help repair/regenerate cells and contrary to what many people think it doesn't make you fat... quite the opposite.

High protein is far from the only requirement for healthful eating. And the saturated fats in meat can easily make you fat if you exceed your required calories on a regular basis.

@aterons said:

Still there are medical experts that thing not eating meat at all is damaging, because we have digestive system and intestinal bacteria made for... you know, being omnivore. So beside what you might think not eating meat at all might be one of those "it's great now but wait until you are 60" or "it's great unless you are part of that 1% where certain bacteria in your intestine will react badly to it and fuck the intestinal flora up".

Who are these medical experts?

"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes."

Also, being an omnivore means you don't need meat, you can eat it, but since you're not a carnivore you can subsist just fine on plants, just like dogs.

I don't understand the connection between meat and intestinal flora. The main thing that feeds intestinal flora is insoluble fiber which only comes from plants. The more fiber you eat, the more healthy your gut flora is.

The % of calcium something contains it's not relevant to how much calcium you ( or anything else be it vitamin, mineral...etc ) absorb from it. For example fish contains a very small % of calcium and vitamin D compared to many foods, but eating fish is the best way to get the calcium and vitamin D you need if you are deprived of ether because ( or if you want to prevent lacking any).

You said for example that cows eat vegies and need much more calcium than humans on a regular basis because they are constantly milked, but have you thought of the difference between a cows stomach(s) and human stomach( without the s), of how much a cow eats compared to a human, how much it chews on the food, the difference in saliva, the difference in what it's body need and the bloody fact that we breed the damn things for 20000 years so that they are very efficient milk producers.

You say that green leaf has a lot of calcium... you know what, it does, most green plants do, you know what they also have, a lot of oxalates ( not really sure if this is the correct translation but the formula is C2O4 ), which are very likely to combine with most alcalin metals... such as calcium. So in truth, while eating around 200g of spinach will get as much calcium into your body as 1l ( aprox 1000g ) of milk, you need about 2000g to get the same amount of calcium metabolized and not just crapped out.

It's not "natural" for humans to drink cows milk, eat cheese... etc, true, it's also not natural for humans to live past their 20. We are talking here about modern day human which lives to be in his 60-80, so that argument is the same as "the only thing which matters is the % of something in a food"... aka retarded.

The human race has evolved to eat what it eats today for a reason called natural selection, the people that didn't eat this way died easier.

You say the saturated fats in meat are bad, but everything that goes into most crab-based products is just as bad, and as opposed to cookies and other sugar + amidine based products meat will make you fell "full", so while it's true you can get fat by eating home-cooked meat you would have to be a food eating competition champion for you to be able to eat all the meat needed to put on the fat you would if you would have eaten bread instead of meat.

Also, high protein is far from the only requirements of healthful eating but it's also the most important requirements and one of the harder to detect and harder to fix ones, as opposed to lack of vitamin X which can be determined with a very small error margin via blood tests and corrected via taking a pill daily for 2 weeks and adding an apple or banana to your lunch.

Lastly I didn't say their is a connection between meat and intestinal flora, I said that limiting the products you eat to vegetarian only might have certain effects on your intestinal flora because up to the age of 20 and something it evolved with you being an omnivore. For example certain bacteria has evolved to prevent certain agents in meat from being harmful to the body, if you don't eat meat that certain bacteria might be altered, lacking... etc which may lead to you not being able to eat meat again for a certain amount of times. Again, I am not saying there is a vegetarian HIV that affects the intestinal flora, I am just saying that out of the 20 trillion organisms that are there we don't know what all of them are and in what number they exist/what purpose they serve, thus the safest thing to do is not significantly change the diet that your ancestors had for 3000 years in a way so significant as to exclude what up until you became a vegan might have represented over 60% of what you ate.

Lastly I did not deny the fact that you can lead a perfectly healthy life as a vegan, I only said that failing to do so is easier than it would be if you just ate normally in which case not going to fast foods and eating a few apples a day, fish a few times a month and drinking milk with your morning cereal or coffee is enough for 99% of people to have what is considered a healthy diet.

#77 Posted by chrissedoff (2041 posts) -

@theguy: We're predisposed to eating meat in the sense that we've evolved to enjoy the taste of fatty, sweet foods, but our digestive tracts are not well adapted to digesting meat, and none human beings' natural characteristics make us effective predators other than our intellect. But, given the fact that we can't hunt animals without first making weapons, it's safe to say that it took a very long time for humans' ancestors to reach the point where we could incorporate meat into our diet. I'm not necessarily arguing against you eating meat. I'm just saying that eating meat is a habit borne out of human ingenuity, not something our bodies are well adapted for.

@jams said:

@chrissedoff said:

@theguy: Human beings are not biologically predisposed to eat meat. If we were, we'd be able to safely digest meat without having to cook a lot of the nutrients out of it first. The species closest to us biologically are all herbivores. We've been eating meat because it's tasty, nothing more to it than that.

You know you can eat raw meat right? The only reason we don't is to kill parasites and bacteria. If you're lucky enough to kill an animal that doesn't have a tapeworm or whatever, you could straight up eat it. I just read an article about it and it had a little excerpt about eating any raw foods. We can eat meat raw, you just have to avoid the bad parasites and bacteria. You'll also probably have a hard time digesting it, but the same can go for raw vegetables.

WHY HUMANS COOK FOOD

Some scientists and anthropologists believe that humans are biologically inclined toward cooking food. Raw meat is much tougher to chew, and raw plant food is too fibrous for humans to easily digest. Although some countries, such as Japan, integrate raw meats into their diet, research has not uncovered a civilization that has lived totally off of raw food. Physical evidence of this adaptation includes our relatively small teeth and raw food sensitivities.

Never mind, I realized who I was quoting. I know I'll be wasting my time here...

Since when were you not able to have a civil conversation with somebody? Why the insult? People can eat freshly killed animals who are free of disease, but that would have been a rare circumstance tens of thousands of years ago, before human beings had started breeding and raising animals for themselves. I'll grant that there are some vegetables that need cooking before consumption but there are more than enough that don't for humans to have survived for a long time without fire.

#78 Posted by deadmoscow (259 posts) -

Look, people, I don't want this thread to get backed up with unsubstantiated scientific claims. I know that a vegetarian diet can be a controversial topic for some, but making claim after claim about the way the body works without actually backing it up with research and data from peer-reviewed scholarly sources just makes you a charlatan.

If you really do want to school us all about how wrong I am, feel free to do so. Google Scholar is a wonderful resource with an astounding amount of information from scientific journals all over the world, much of it peer-reviewed and available in full-text. I'll even link you all to a tip sheet on how to use Boolean operators and search limiters to get the best results out of the databases that are compiled in Google Scholar, if there's interest. Wide access to information is one of the great blessings of the time we live in - let's take advantage of it!

To get this shit back on track, I had myself a tasty food truck lunch today. It was a channa masala naan wrap. So basically, delicious channa masala wrapped up in naan. I love how easily chickpeas can pick up flavors from Indian spices, and now I'm feeling pretty jazzed about Indian cuisine in general. I'm gonna have to drop by the Indian grocery store on the way home today to pick up some tasty paneer, which is sort of like the Indian equivalent to tofu.

#79 Posted by theguy (796 posts) -

@theguy: We're predisposed to eating meat in the sense that we've evolved to enjoy the taste of fatty, sweet foods, but our digestive tracts are not well adapted to digesting meat, and none human beings' natural characteristics make us effective predators other than our intellect. But, given the fact that we can't hunt animals without first making weapons, it's safe to say that it took a very long time for humans' ancestors to reach the point where we could incorporate meat into our diet. I'm not necessarily arguing against you eating meat. I'm just saying that eating meat is a habit borne out of human ingenuity, not something our bodies are well adapted for.

@jams said:

@chrissedoff said:

@theguy: Human beings are not biologically predisposed to eat meat. If we were, we'd be able to safely digest meat without having to cook a lot of the nutrients out of it first. The species closest to us biologically are all herbivores. We've been eating meat because it's tasty, nothing more to it than that.

You know you can eat raw meat right? The only reason we don't is to kill parasites and bacteria. If you're lucky enough to kill an animal that doesn't have a tapeworm or whatever, you could straight up eat it. I just read an article about it and it had a little excerpt about eating any raw foods. We can eat meat raw, you just have to avoid the bad parasites and bacteria. You'll also probably have a hard time digesting it, but the same can go for raw vegetables.

WHY HUMANS COOK FOOD

Some scientists and anthropologists believe that humans are biologically inclined toward cooking food. Raw meat is much tougher to chew, and raw plant food is too fibrous for humans to easily digest. Although some countries, such as Japan, integrate raw meats into their diet, research has not uncovered a civilization that has lived totally off of raw food. Physical evidence of this adaptation includes our relatively small teeth and raw food sensitivities.

Never mind, I realized who I was quoting. I know I'll be wasting my time here...

Since when were you not able to have a civil conversation with somebody? Why the insult? People can eat freshly killed animals who are free of disease, but that would have been a rare circumstance tens of thousands of years ago, before human beings had started breeding and raising animals for themselves. I'll grant that there are some vegetables that need cooking before consumption but there are more than enough that don't for humans to have survived for a long time without fire.

Homo sapiens are and have always been omnivorous. That is a fact. What exactly are you arguing? Is a vegetarian diet feasible? Of course it is today, as far as in the past I highly doubt any humans had a secure enough source of food to get all the nutrients they need by being vegetarian, at least before big civilization. (Earliest evidence was 5th century BC btw). Still though, what point are you trying to make?

#80 Posted by MikkaQ (10224 posts) -

I hear people should check out the cookbook Plenty. Any vegetarians I know seem to love this book. To a meat-fan like me, it looks like a bunch of appetizers, but I'm sure the recipes are filling enough for the veggies out there.

#81 Posted by StarvingGamer (7559 posts) -

Man this thread devolved quickly, but that's hardly a surprise.

OP: I wish you good health. I should probably start trying to reduce my intake but man, no matter how much bread and veg and beans I eat, I ALWAYS feel hungry until I've had some meat.

Online
#82 Posted by deadmoscow (259 posts) -

@starvinggamer: "StarvingGamer" indeed, haha. But yeah, it's been almost a week now and while I don't really feel completely full after a meal, that's not necessarily a bad thing. I don't quite have the sensation of "satisfaction" after a meal, but then again I also don't feel like taking a nap afterwards either.