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#1 Posted by mylifeforAiur (3479 posts) -

Now, firstly, I don't wish to appear reactionary or informed--scarcely anything could be further from the truth. But, with that said, I think it might be interesting to gauge the general reaction to the (posited) announcement that American troops will be stationed in Darwin (which is in the northern part of Australia, Upper Northern Territory).  
 
Here are a few links if anybody is still unbeknown to the topic in question: 
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/extends+Pacific+might+with+troops+Australia/5698345/story.html 
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/expect-us-announcement-in-darwin-abbott-20111112-1nccl.html 
 
I, for one, think that it's certainly healthy to further establish and strengthen our bonds with a long-time ally and global superpower, but I hope that it doesn't come at the expense of loosening our friendship with, or antagonizing China in any degree. Like I said, I know nothing of the particulars, but I can't help but feel a little befuddled and tad tingly by the promise of foreign occupation--however small and negligible. Also, please, no Colbert bullshit. I get it, he's a funny man...

#2 Posted by Tim_the_Corsair (3065 posts) -

I'm cool with it, if nothing else it is a visible reminder to Indonesia to stay off our damn lawn.

#3 Posted by blitzkriegblizzard (196 posts) -

Must be hard for the american troops with everything being the wrong side up down there.

#4 Posted by FilipHolm (663 posts) -

The american army has no business there... Seriously, why? The reason that article gives is just... no...

#5 Posted by Jimbo (9710 posts) -

On balance, if I were Australian, I'd sooner have them there than not.  It's hardly an occupation, but it should prevent China getting any ideas. Not because of the troops themselves of course, but just because throwing down on them would guarantee a US response.

#6 Posted by Jimbo (9710 posts) -
@doublezeroduck said:

America needs to bring all the troops stationed abroad home.

And America would become vastly less influential in the world overnight.
#7 Edited by mylifeforAiur (3479 posts) -

Please remember to keep it civil, lads. By the way, the first person to make a "convict joke" is getting a swift jab in the eye with a knife... An Australian knife.  

#8 Posted by Make_Me_Mad (2950 posts) -

@mylifeforAiur said:

Please remember to keep it civil, lads. By the way, the first person to make a "convict-joke" is getting a swift jab in the eye with a knife... An Australian knife.

So... like a shiv?

In all seriousness, I guess it's not a very big deal. Some soldiers get to vacation in an awesome continent instead of the desert, Australia gets to remind China that they've got some backup, and everyone's pretty happy, I think.

#9 Posted by Shrimpy (96 posts) -

Weird... I don't really think it's a big deal but it does seem a bit out of nowhere and unnecessary.

#10 Posted by AhmadMetallic (18955 posts) -

My thoughts are that X troops need to be in their homeland. Neither in Australia nor invading other Asian nations. 
 
But hey, I never make sense so..!

#11 Posted by Contrarian (1143 posts) -

It is just a consolidation of the ANZUS alliance and no big deal. No-one is threarening to invade Australia, so it isn't about protecting the country. Despite Indonesia's 300 million population, they are no position to invade and China isn't really a colonial power. Australia has far too many powerful friends, like the USA, Canada and the UK, for any country to risk an invasion over. I am no fan of America, but they are a good friend, so strengthening that relationship is only a good thing, as long as we stop following them into stupid wars like Vietnam and Iraq.

#12 Posted by ShadowSkill11 (1776 posts) -

Hell yeah. I'd love to get station in Austrailia for a year or two. I'm sure it's going to be up thier with other sweet assignments like Germany and Japan.

#13 Posted by Jimbo (9710 posts) -
@doublezeroduck said:

@Jimbo:

Better to be less influential than overextended.

There is no reason for tax payers to be asked to continue to support a needless expense, like army bases all over the world, when poverty is rising and education and other more important things are slipping more and more. Why support other countries and try to hold up this empire we have when we can't/don't take care of our own people.

Makes no sense to me.

Except the loss of influence is likely to result in the US becoming a poorer nation, not a richer one.  You can't really seperate wealth and power projection like that: power projection brings wealth, and wealth brings the ability to project power.  Once the US is giving ground in terms of its ability to project power / use gunboat diplomacy, then it's in decline.  Building an empire is hard, throwing it away is easy.  
 
The US has leveraged its influence to become an obscenely wealthy country.  Granted, the US probably doesn't need to spend quite so much on *ahem* 'Defence' to maintain its position, but the poverty and poor education are a result of how the wealth is distributed (ie. about 5 people having all of the money), not because some of it is spent on army bases in foreign countries.
#14 Posted by BlinkyTM (1054 posts) -

Seems fine with me. Easier troop deployment to countries near/around Australia.

And they get to play with some kangaroos!

#15 Posted by BlinkyTM (1054 posts) -

@Contrarian said:

It is just a consolidation of the ANZUS alliance and no big deal. No-one is threarening to invade Australia, so it isn't about protecting the country. Despite Indonesia's 300 million population, they are no position to invade and China isn't really a colonial power. Australia has far too many powerful friends, like the USA, Canada and the UK, for any country to risk an invasion over. I am no fan of America, but they are a good friend, so strengthening that relationship is only a good thing, as long as we stop following them into stupid wars like Vietnam and Iraq.

Both were warranted, I can assure you. I'll explain why if you want.

#16 Posted by Contrarian (1143 posts) -

@BlinkyTM said:

@Contrarian said:

It is just a consolidation of the ANZUS alliance and no big deal. No-one is threarening to invade Australia, so it isn't about protecting the country. Despite Indonesia's 300 million population, they are no position to invade and China isn't really a colonial power. Australia has far too many powerful friends, like the USA, Canada and the UK, for any country to risk an invasion over. I am no fan of America, but they are a good friend, so strengthening that relationship is only a good thing, as long as we stop following them into stupid wars like Vietnam and Iraq.

Both were warranted, I can assure you. I'll explain why if you want.

I don't need it explained to me, but thank you. They were both follies that achieved nothing and killed too many young people on both sides. History pretty much has agreed this on Vietnam and future history will very likely agree on this in the not so far future. All are entitled to there view though.

#17 Posted by Aetheldod (3338 posts) -

Just one more country with american troops in it... meh is all my ignorant mind can muster in this
#18 Posted by N7 (3570 posts) -
@BlinkyTM said:

@Contrarian said:

It is just a consolidation of the ANZUS alliance and no big deal. No-one is threarening to invade Australia, so it isn't about protecting the country. Despite Indonesia's 300 million population, they are no position to invade and China isn't really a colonial power. Australia has far too many powerful friends, like the USA, Canada and the UK, for any country to risk an invasion over. I am no fan of America, but they are a good friend, so strengthening that relationship is only a good thing, as long as we stop following them into stupid wars like Vietnam and Iraq.

Both were warranted, I can assure you. I'll explain why if you want.

Hell yeah they were warranted! Have you ever seen "Apocalypse Now"!? That movie justified the Vietnam War!
#19 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5750 posts) -

I'm fine with it.

#20 Posted by Inkerman (1448 posts) -

Meh, I guess I support it if it strengthens our alliance. To all those people worried about antagonising China, I think we did that when our last Prime MInister in his infinite wisdom called them all 'rat-fuckers'.

#21 Posted by TehFlan (1944 posts) -
@BlinkyTM said:

@Contrarian said:

It is just a consolidation of the ANZUS alliance and no big deal. No-one is threarening to invade Australia, so it isn't about protecting the country. Despite Indonesia's 300 million population, they are no position to invade and China isn't really a colonial power. Australia has far too many powerful friends, like the USA, Canada and the UK, for any country to risk an invasion over. I am no fan of America, but they are a good friend, so strengthening that relationship is only a good thing, as long as we stop following them into stupid wars like Vietnam and Iraq.

Both were warranted, I can assure you. I'll explain why if you want.

I'd like you to explain why Vietnam was warranted.
#22 Posted by jayjonesjunior (1084 posts) -

gotta keep the free world safe from those godless kangaroos.

#23 Posted by Contrarian (1143 posts) -

@N7 said:

@BlinkyTM said:

@Contrarian said:

It is just a consolidation of the ANZUS alliance and no big deal. No-one is threarening to invade Australia, so it isn't about protecting the country. Despite Indonesia's 300 million population, they are no position to invade and China isn't really a colonial power. Australia has far too many powerful friends, like the USA, Canada and the UK, for any country to risk an invasion over. I am no fan of America, but they are a good friend, so strengthening that relationship is only a good thing, as long as we stop following them into stupid wars like Vietnam and Iraq.

Both were warranted, I can assure you. I'll explain why if you want.

Hell yeah they were warranted! Have you ever seen "Apocalypse Now"!? That movie justified the Vietnam War!

Spot on ....... culturally, the Vietnam War produced awesome music and awesome movies ..... Full Metal Jacket!!!

#24 Posted by iAmJohn (6091 posts) -

There are US troops in Australia?

#25 Posted by Butano (1681 posts) -

Seems fine to me. There are lots of countries American troops are stationed at. Germany, Spain, Japan, what's 1 more?

#26 Posted by Wikitoups (711 posts) -

@mylifeforAiur said:

Please remember to keep it civil, lads. By the way, the first person to make a "convict joke" is getting a swift jab in the eye with a knife... An Australian knife.
#27 Posted by deathstriker666 (1337 posts) -

@doublezeroduck said:

America needs to bring all the troops stationed abroad home. Why does Australia need American troops there? Why does the US need them there? They don't. It doesn't serve much of a purpose as far as I can tell.

You have to the most blindingly naive person in the world to believe that.

Better to be less influential than overextended.

There is no reason for tax payers to be asked to continue to support a needless expense, like army bases all over the world, when poverty is rising and education and other more important things are slipping more and more.

The reason why our military budget is so inflated is because we're in 2 wars, not because we have to pay rent. Even then, most of our tax dollars go to social care programs like Medicare and Social Security.

Why support other countries and try to hold up this empire we have when we can't/don't take care of our own people.

Typical anti-globalist rhetoric. Whenever the government announces any sort of aid to a foreign country I here this same bullshit over and over no matter the circumstances. It's not only selfish, it's absolutely pathetic. The US is richest damn country in the world. We don't even make up 10% of the World's population and yet all this money must only be kept to ourselves. Fucking ridiculous.

#28 Posted by Inkerman (1448 posts) -

Meh, I guess I support it if it strengthens our alliance. To all those people worried about antagonising China, I think we did that when our last Prime MInister in his infinite wisdom called them all 'rat-fuckers'.

#29 Posted by jewunit (1051 posts) -

American troops are all over the world.I don't think they need to be stationed in any of those places. I think there should be some joint group of U.N. peacekeepers in these areas, if anything. The occasional reports of soldiers raping women in these countries doesn't help matters either. The countries that have bases seem perfectly alright with the arrangement though, so I defer to their judgment on this matter.

#30 Posted by Aas (600 posts) -

I'm pretty sure America has like 50 000 troops in Germany of all places. Just in case, I guess.

#31 Posted by MikkaQ (10224 posts) -

The US has troops all over the place, this is pretty normal behavior.

#32 Posted by Animasta (14460 posts) -

What ideas would china get if american troops were stationed there? what does china need with australia?

#33 Posted by Village_Guy (2406 posts) -

So? America and many other (western) countries have soldiers stationed all over the world.

It is perfectly normal behavior and can also be good training for the stationed soldiers.

#34 Posted by GreggD (4443 posts) -

@Aas said:

I'm pretty sure America has like 50 000 troops in Germany of all places. Just in case, I guess.

Never had reason to trust a Kraut, personally. Except my ex. You don't wanna know how that turned out. :P

#35 Posted by Matfei90 (1288 posts) -

@doublezeroduck said:

America needs to bring all the troops stationed abroad home. Why does Australia need American troops there? Why does the US need them there? They don't. It doesn't serve much of a purpose as far as I can tell.

We don't need them here, for any reason in regards to national security or the like. I'm assuming it's mainly for joint-force training and exercises so both our military forces are adept at working together when the time comes.

#36 Posted by ZeForgotten (10397 posts) -

Wait, I thought America was supposed to "get their troops home" from everything they've been doing. Now it's "Bring them home for a minute and then just get rid of them again"

#37 Edited by Beforet (2884 posts) -

We have troops stationed in all the other allied countries, don't we? What one more going to hurt?

#38 Posted by BlinkyTM (1054 posts) -

@N7 said:

@BlinkyTM said:

@Contrarian said:

It is just a consolidation of the ANZUS alliance and no big deal. No-one is threarening to invade Australia, so it isn't about protecting the country. Despite Indonesia's 300 million population, they are no position to invade and China isn't really a colonial power. Australia has far too many powerful friends, like the USA, Canada and the UK, for any country to risk an invasion over. I am no fan of America, but they are a good friend, so strengthening that relationship is only a good thing, as long as we stop following them into stupid wars like Vietnam and Iraq.

Both were warranted, I can assure you. I'll explain why if you want.

Hell yeah they were warranted! Have you ever seen "Apocalypse Now"!? That movie justified the Vietnam War!

Yeah, that movie was great anti-war propaganda with little to no facts represented.

#39 Posted by BestUsernameEver (4866 posts) -

@doublezeroduck said:

America needs to bring all the troops stationed abroad home. Why does Australia need American troops there? Why does the US need them there? They don't. It doesn't serve much of a purpose as far as I can tell.

It's a lot more complicated than that.

#40 Posted by sopranosfan (1935 posts) -

I so hope we take over Australia!!! That'll teach their government to censor video games.

#41 Edited by BlinkyTM (1054 posts) -

@Contrarian said:

@BlinkyTM said:

@Contrarian said:

It is just a consolidation of the ANZUS alliance and no big deal. No-one is threarening to invade Australia, so it isn't about protecting the country. Despite Indonesia's 300 million population, they are no position to invade and China isn't really a colonial power. Australia has far too many powerful friends, like the USA, Canada and the UK, for any country to risk an invasion over. I am no fan of America, but they are a good friend, so strengthening that relationship is only a good thing, as long as we stop following them into stupid wars like Vietnam and Iraq.

Both were warranted, I can assure you. I'll explain why if you want.

I don't need it explained to me, but thank you. They were both follies that achieved nothing and killed too many young people on both sides. History pretty much has agreed this on Vietnam and future history will very likely agree on this in the not so far future. All are entitled to there view though.

History has not agreed that Vietnam and Iraq were both "follies"....the Vietnam War began when the French (Who occupied that territory) were attacked by NVA troops. After the attack they pulled out and left non-communist South Vietnam vulnerable. The belief was that if South Vietnam fell it would open a gateway that would inevitably lead to more nations becoming Communist. The reasons the Vietnam War failed lie with Lyndon B. Johnson and Richard Nixon. Their horrendous policies, lack of basic military understanding, no communication with generals on the frontline, and the fact that they crumbled under anti-war protests is disgusting. Numerous accounts from generals on the battlefront (I can give you the titles of the books I got my information from) stated that we were on the verge of capturing Hanoi when the troops were pulled out. I don't know how you can say Iraq was a "folly." In my books toppling a genocidal dictator and establishing a Democracy are both very important to ensuring stability in that area.

To each their own I guess...

#42 Posted by superpow (226 posts) -

I think people do not care and/or do not really understand foreign policy or international politics whatsoever. Any spreading of imperialism is detrimental to the world in my book. Also, what is all this talk of China or Indonesia invading anywhere. Are people dunce?

#43 Posted by hoossy (932 posts) -

@mylifeforAiur:

I wouldn't label Australia a "superpower".... but yeah, no big deal. I lived overseas in a military base for five years. We have an active military presence all over the place.

#44 Posted by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -

@doublezeroduck said:

America needs to bring all the troops stationed abroad home. Why does Australia need American troops there? Why does the US need them there? They don't. It doesn't serve much of a purpose as far as I can tell.

That's because you have absolutely no understanding of the subject at all.

#45 Posted by boylie (305 posts) -
#46 Posted by Turambar (6484 posts) -
@doublezeroduck said:

America needs to bring all the troops stationed abroad home. Why does Australia need American troops there? Why does the US need them there? They don't. It doesn't serve much of a purpose as far as I can tell.

Think about what the environment actually is in East Asia before you say all troops stationed abroad should be sent home.  The only reason why South Korea and Taiwan still exist as independent states is because of the American military bases in the areas.  
 
The reason for the base in Australia is pretty simple.  It further reinforces the US military's ability to respond against any military move made by China against Taiwan (and SE Asia as a whole.)  It has nothing to do with Australia itself since its not a nearly an influential enough of a country that is threatening China's ambitions of making Asia its zone of influence.
#47 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -

@Sezzilla said:

@konig_kei said:

IT'S GOOD THEY CAN KEEP ALL THE ABOS IN LINE.

*Thumbs up to you*

Mods, this is racist talk. It's the Australian equivalent of the N-Word.

#48 Posted by Animasta (14460 posts) -

@Turambar said:

@doublezeroduck said:

America needs to bring all the troops stationed abroad home. Why does Australia need American troops there? Why does the US need them there? They don't. It doesn't serve much of a purpose as far as I can tell.

Think about what the environment actually is in East Asia before you say all troops stationed abroad should be sent home. The only reason why South Korea and Taiwan still exist as independent states is because of the American military bases in the areas. The reason for the base in Australia is pretty simple. It further reinforces the US military's ability to respond against any military move made by China against Taiwan (and SE Asia as a whole.) It has nothing to do with Australia itself since its not a nearly an influential enough of a country that is threatening China's ambitions of making Asia its zone of influence.

oh come the fuck on, the likelyhood of china going after Taiwan in any sort of military operation is dumb and China is smarter than that, not to mention them going after any more of SE asia would be even sillier. (they have no incentive to take control of vietnam, thailand, etc.)

#49 Posted by Turambar (6484 posts) -
@TehFlan said:
@BlinkyTM said:

@Contrarian said:

It is just a consolidation of the ANZUS alliance and no big deal. No-one is threarening to invade Australia, so it isn't about protecting the country. Despite Indonesia's 300 million population, they are no position to invade and China isn't really a colonial power. Australia has far too many powerful friends, like the USA, Canada and the UK, for any country to risk an invasion over. I am no fan of America, but they are a good friend, so strengthening that relationship is only a good thing, as long as we stop following them into stupid wars like Vietnam and Iraq.

Both were warranted, I can assure you. I'll explain why if you want.

I'd like you to explain why Vietnam was warranted.
We actually followed the French into Vietnam, so blame De Gaulle's desire to cling to colonies post-WWII that sparked that whole war.  As for the US justification for the war, views on just what it was about can be split relatively cleanly into two sides.  One side views it as a nationalist uprising by the Vietnamese against the French.  The other side views it as the USSR's attempt to assert influence in SE Asia via Ho Chi Minh, who did study in the USSR.  Depending on whose sides you agree with more, the justification for the war varries.
 
Ultimately though, history has already shown that even if expansion of Communist influence through a North Vietnamese victory was true, the results predicated on that event were incorrectly predicted.  Specifically, there was no domino effect that turned all of SE Asia into communist states.
#50 Posted by Clinkz (1118 posts) -

@mylifeforAiur said:

Please remember to keep it civil, lads. By the way, the first person to make a "convict joke" is getting a swift jab in the eye with a knife... An Australian knife.

Why do they need to protect a bunch of convicts?