Adultery and Politics

Post by Insectecutor (328 posts) See mini bio

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@Suicrat: You're right, I misread you.

Marriage law only covers the legal rights of the parties and what benefits they receive. It does not dictate who you stick your dick into (unless you're a same sex couple). Religion and morals dictate that. There are separate laws against acts understood to be morally unacceptable.

Marriage is not a legal contract, it's an agreement backed by law.

Edited 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Suicrat (3,041 posts) See mini bio

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@Insectecutor said:

Marriage is not a legal contract, it's an agreement backed by law. "

Okay, first of all, an agreement backed by law IS a contract, which is why you can sue for divorce IN A COURT OF LAW.

Also, the marriage vow you verbally agree to and the marriage contract (which literally is signed, and is literally a legal document) you sign stipulates whether or not you can have sex with other people. Most marriage contracts demand that both partner remain faithful to the other. Sanford may or may not have in this case had such a stipulation in his marriage agreement, but considering his Christian background, it is safe to assume he did. In this case he breeched his contract, which isn't a criminal act, but is nonetheless an issue to be settled by the legal system. Why would you trust a person who broke a legal contract with a person he promised to spend his life and produce children with to fix a broken sewer main, or even simply adhere to his oath of office?

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Wolverine (3,350 posts) See mini bio

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@goodwood said:

" @Wolverine said:
" @Insectecutor: That is exactly the point I'm trying to make. Bill Clinton got impeached for lying under oath about his personal life. In my opinion they shouldn't have asked him such a personal question under oath in the first place. "
Clinton was never impeached, he was tried. "

No, he was impeached but he was never removed from office. Look around online if you need further proof.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Gunner (2,848 posts) See mini bio

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@JJWeatherman said:

" @Wolverine said:
" Over the years there have been many political scandals involving very popular and powerful politicians commiting adultery. For example, the media has just reported that Republican Governer Mark Sanford cheated on his wife. Over the pass few days many people have been calling for his resignation. Do you think he has the right to keep his job after what he did?
I personally do. I don't advocate adultary but what he does with his personal life has nothing to do with his ability to do his job. If you cheated on your significant other do you think the company you work for should fire you because it shows lack of morals on your part? I certainly don't think so. I'm also a democrat by the way. I'm stating this to make sure people don't think I'm being biased.
"
I agree that the guy shouldn't be fired for that. It makes him a jerk but it doesn't make him unqualified for his job. "

It does when you preach morals and honesty your entire career..

Clinton was one of the best presidents we have had since Kennedy, What he did had no effect on his political career at all, both are completely different cases.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by GreggD (560 posts) See mini bio

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@Suicrat said:

" @Insectecutor: A marriage is a legal contract, that's not an idealistic view of it, most "romantics" would argue that that's a cold-hearted view of marriage.

Can't it be both?

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by mikevanpwn (305 posts) See mini bio

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I am severly dissapointed in the Governor; while he isn't my governor I had supported his resistance to stimulus money and his comments he made on fiscal policy. He advocated family values as well, yet he didn't live up to the standard that he himself claimed to have held. I say he resign, no one can possibly trust him to lead the state if he cant stay true to his own family. But then again I'm not a citizen of South Carolina so I don't have a say in the matter.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Wolverine (3,350 posts) See mini bio

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@Commando said:

" "Celebrity birthdays, today Monica Lewinsky is 28. It seemed like just yesterday she was crawling around on the floor in the Oval Office."
-David Letterman.
All time greatest quote ever.
"

Hahaha, that truly is an awesome quote. xD

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Suicrat (3,041 posts) See mini bio

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@GreggD: Sure it can, but in this instance the issue at hand is the legal matter, and the legal matter at hand is that he violated the terms of a contract.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by AngeTheDude (187 posts) See mini bio

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Ok, so this is why he's REALLY in trouble. He may have used state funds for going to visit his mistress in Argentina. THAT is a good reason to give him hell. Who cares if he cheated on his wife? He's only in real trouble because of the money issue.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Wolverine (3,350 posts) See mini bio

75 ACH / 1680 P

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@AngeTheDude said:

" Ok, so this is why he's REALLY in trouble. He may have used state funds for going to visit his mistress in Argentina. THAT is a good reason to give him hell. Who cares if he cheated on his wife? He's only in real trouble because of the money issue. "

I agree with you on that. I didn't know he might have used state funds.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by AngeTheDude (187 posts) See mini bio

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I really want to see what this lady from Argentina looks like. She MUST be hot if he flew there to see her.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Wolverine (3,350 posts) See mini bio

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@AngeTheDude: I would laugh my ass off if she was some 80 year old fat women.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by AngeTheDude (187 posts) See mini bio

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@Wolverine: Doubt it. This guy has money. He's not desperate!

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Optiow (1,623 posts) See mini bio

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I think that people are allowed to commit adultery in a political job, but the media always kick up a fuss about it.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Wolverine (3,350 posts) See mini bio

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@Suicrat: John F. Kennedy was one of our greatest presidents even though he broke a legal contract. Just because someone isn't loyal to their wife doesn't mean they are not loyal to their country.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Suicrat (3,041 posts) See mini bio

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He was just like every other 20th Century American President. He adhered to his oath of office and to the Constiution only insofar as it was politically expedient to do so. Like every other post-war President his primary concern was re-election and propagation of the party line, the only difference is in this case he wasn't given the chance to stand for re-election, and for that people Romanticize his administration as though it were the apex of American culture.

While he did represent an important departure from 50s political culture in the U.S. on the surface, the details were much different:
-He did nothing to roll back the heavy burdens placed on individuals (initially justified by the war effort).
Don't get me wrong, it's great that he issued an executive decree giving the U.S. government the renewed 'right' to print sound money again, but his administration encroached further onto the American economy than it rolled back.
-His monetary policy was inflationary.
-He's seen as an early hero of civil rights, meanwhile he saw nothing wrong with wire-tapping MLK Jr.
-He supported a coup d'etat in Iraq
-He provided military and financial assistance to the South Vietnamese government. A dictatorship installed by the French, later endorsing the overthrow (and a tacit endorsement of his murder) of Ngo Dinh Diem.

Any one of those things would have made him a bad President in my books, but he did all of them, and he didn't even commit a full term (though admittedly that wasn't his fault).

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by c1337us (2,570 posts) See mini bio

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I couldnt care less if politicians sleep around. As long as they dont do it with anyone I am going out with/married to.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by JeffGoldblum (1,507 posts) See mini bio

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@Wolverine: There was a documentary on the history channel called the Beltway Unbuckled. It was about political sex scandals in Washington. This stuff is not new. American Politics and Sex Scandal have been lovers since the very beginning.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by cityofdis0 (15 posts) See mini bio

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Going back to what was asked in the first place, by all means, he should keep his job.

Ones personal life shouldnt be a deciding factor on whether one keeps a job or not. It is kind of like how a company cant fire a homosexual, just because he is gay.

It was his personal choice to cheat on his wife, but that doesnt effect his ability in Politics. I hate the media.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Suicrat (3,041 posts) See mini bio

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@cityofdis0: He violated a legal contract. That is not a private matter when the job in question is lawmaker. How can the public take him at his word if his own wife can't?

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Wolverine (3,350 posts) See mini bio

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@JeffGoldblum: The first politician to commit adultery was Alexander Hamilton.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Commando (915 posts) See mini bio

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@Wolverine said:

" @JeffGoldblum: The first politician to commit adultery was Alexander Hamilton. "

I'm related to Aaron Burr- the guy that shot and killed Alexander Hamilton in that duel.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by JeffGoldblum (1,507 posts) See mini bio

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@Wolverine said:

" @JeffGoldblum: The first politician to commit adultery was Alexander Hamilton. "

There is also the rumor that when Washington was staying with a relative they offered him a slave to sleep with. He accepted and that slave ended up pregnant. There is a black family today that claims to be descendants of our first president and his brother's slave.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by lebkin (104 posts) See mini bio

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@Suicrat said:

Also, the marriage vow you verbally agree to and the marriage contract (which literally is signed, and is literally a legal document) you sign stipulates whether or not you can have sex with other people. Most marriage contracts demand that both partner remain faithful to the other. Sanford may or may not have in this case had such a stipulation in his marriage agreement, but considering his Christian background, it is safe to assume he did. In this case he breeched his contract, which isn't a criminal act, but is nonetheless an issue to be settled by the legal system. Why would you trust a person who broke a legal contract with a person he promised to spend his life and produce children with to fix a broken sewer main, or even simply adhere to his oath of office? "

I am by no means a marriage expert nor a lawyer. I have only gotten married once (and hopefully only once) in the state of Michigan. But there was nothing at all in the legal documents of my marriage about any claim to fidelity. Other states marriage licenses may be different, I do not know, but nothing here at least.

But as for the wedding vows, I have no idea what their legal standing is. I do not know what Sanford vowed to do or not do in his wedding vows, but you are probably right in the assumption of some vow of fidelity. It would be interesting to hear the opinion of someone who has studied law to show what extent does legality of wedding vows reach. Is a vow in a wedding ceremony a legally binding contract? Or is it just "ceremony" and has no legal standing? I have no idea.

Now, even if he has broken a legal contract, he should not resign. In fact, I do not think politicians should ever resign. They were elected by the people to do a job, and they should continue to do that job until the electorate decides to remove them, either through a recall or by simply not re-electing them. I am a firm believer in due process, and the established methods and policies should be carried out as laid out in the law.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Insectecutor (328 posts) See mini bio

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The problem with marriage is that it tries to impose legal limitations on relationships between people. I think most people can understand that shit can go wrong, and laws have been relaxed over the years.

Marriage is an agreement, an oath sworn under God, not the law. The state recognises marriage/divorce and offers various rights under law. When you get married you tell God and your wife you'll be faithful, you don't need to reassure the state of this: the state does not give a shit.

Of course, some states have laws on adultery, but these are separate and outside the scope of marriage. Anyway, I'm done arguing this. Dude apparently did wrong by making a hilarious expenses claim to go see his squeeze, and that is not on.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Suicrat (3,041 posts) See mini bio

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@Insectecutor: It's not an imposition, it's a voluntary agreement. If you want to be free to fuck who you want, don't promise someone in word and deed that you won't. He should be free to filander if he hasn't promised anyone he won't, but what matters is the breaking of his promise, not the act of sex with a second woman.

@lebkin: Since infidelity is a legal grounds for divorce in every state, it can be understood as an implicit breech of his marriage contract. Whether his wife chooses to pursue legal redress for this act is another matter though.

Also what matters out of all this is his oath of office is about as formal as his oath of marriage, but his oath of marriage is to one person who he claimed to love, his oath office is to no one particular. If he doesn't take his oath of marriage to someone he promised to love for his whole life seriously, who is to say he'll take a harder-to-enforce oath more seriously than that?

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Maxszy (1,229 posts) See mini bio

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@goodwood said:

" @Wolverine said:
" @Insectecutor: That is exactly the point I'm trying to make. Bill Clinton got impeached for lying under oath about his personal life. In my opinion they shouldn't have asked him such a personal question under oath in the first place. "
Clinton was never impeached, he was tried. "

Wrong. :-P He was impeached. Impeachment in the first stage of a two stage process that brings the charges against the government official. Impeached doesn't mean that he was removed.

As for the OT, I am with you. While cheating is a horrible act, it doesn't affect their actual ability to do their job. I don't think so anyway. Look at Bill Clinton? Arguably a pretty good president, especially when it came to the economy. He still did a good job there even though he fucked up his personal life bad. Disclosure: I am a democrat and was/is a Clinton fan. (Both of them.)

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Apathylad (444 posts) See mini bio

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Is adultery even against the law? Anyway, these affair things have been everywhere. Some people say JFK slept with Marylin Monroe but he never got impeached. Thomas Jefferson also had sex with a couple slaves, I'm told. :P

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by Wolverine (3,350 posts) See mini bio

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@Commando said:

" @Wolverine said:
" @JeffGoldblum: The first politician to commit adultery was Alexander Hamilton. "
I'm related to Aaron Burr- the guy that shot and killed Alexander Hamilton in that duel. "

Wow, that is really interesting. Aaron Burr was also the second vice president of the United States.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

Post by JeffGoldblum (1,507 posts) See mini bio

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@Wolverine said:

" @Commando said:
" @Wolverine said:
" @JeffGoldblum: The first politician to commit adultery was Alexander Hamilton. "
I'm related to Aaron Burr- the guy that shot and killed Alexander Hamilton in that duel. "
Wow, that is really interesting. Aaron Burr was also the second vice president of the United States. "

If only political disputes were still solved by duels.

Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

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Adultery and Politics