What if the universe didn't exist?

Topic started by SmugDarkLoser on June 29, 2009. Last post by cspiffo 4 months, 1 week ago.
Post by gingertastic_10 (2,059 posts) See mini bio
1 ACH / 10 P

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@T0mF5 said:
"@gingertastic_10 said:
"What if our dreams were actually reality. "
What if reality was actually a dream? "
That just blew my mind.


Post by Mac (36 posts) See mini bio

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Don't bother thinking about it. Your mind, like mine and all of ours, is too limited to fully grasp what non-existance is. It's one of the limits of being human.

And honestly, our dreams being reality is far more disturbing and interesting than reality being a dream. Think about it, our dreams are disjointed and grotesque, ruled by the very lack of logic and coherence, whereas the world in which we are dreaming is just another veil and is still bound by the rules of our logic when you consider us awakening.


Post by Coltonio7 (2,702 posts) See mini bio
967 ACH / 12045 P

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Post by Hamst3r (1,362 posts) See mini bio
235 ACH / 1460 P

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I would probably poopoo in my pants.


Post by WilliamRLBaker (2,548 posts) See mini bio
1076 ACH / 21021 P

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@Hailinel said:
" @SmugDarkLoser said:
" @Hailinel said:
"Trying to give a reason as to why existence exists is a pretty tall order.  It's hard to say that there could ever be truly "nothing", because even if the vastness of space was devoid of planets, stars, and galaxies, there would still be the vastness of space itself.  How can something like that not exist?"
Why does that have to exist? What caused anything to be?I just don't get it.  Science will obviously never find an answer as they'll just get to the point after it.  You can always ask why that happened. I'm just curious.  Why in the world would it?  Jees, I'm inspired to write a book about it, but I don't think I'm right in the head to do it now.  And lol, like anyone who starts a book finishes it like me.  "
You're seriously not making any sense here.  There's nothing that says that the universe has to exist, but there are elements of the universe that are, in essence, already nothing.  Those elements just happen to be populated by something.  Remove the something, and the nothing is still there.  How can one take nothing from nothing? "
you cant because nothing is something, the absence of a word, a name truly means the                      because we name it nothing therefor it exists.


Post by Kombat (845 posts) See mini bio
1453 ACH / 21897 P

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@BiffMcBlumpkin said:
" I can touch your hands too. Hoh.... hohmygod. I can touch your hands too.  "
Man, I am freaking out.


Post by BiffMcBlumpkin (2,467 posts) See mini bio

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I wonder if your feet can touch my package?


Post by Fr0Br0 (2,584 posts) See mini bio

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Hey Smug, dare you to watch this and not try to kill your computer...

  





Post by SmugDarkLoser (4,044 posts) See mini bio
1600 ACH / 35152 P

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@Hailinel said:
"@SmugDarkLoser said:
" @Hailinel said:
"Trying to give a reason as to why existence exists is a pretty tall order.  It's hard to say that there could ever be truly "nothing", because even if the vastness of space was devoid of planets, stars, and galaxies, there would still be the vastness of space itself.  How can something like that not exist?"
Why does that have to exist? What caused anything to be?I just don't get it.  Science will obviously never find an answer as they'll just get to the point after it.  You can always ask why that happened. I'm just curious.  Why in the world would it?  Jees, I'm inspired to write a book about it, but I don't think I'm right in the head to do it now.  And lol, like anyone who starts a book finishes it like me.  "
You're seriously not making any sense here.  There's nothing that says that the universe has to exist, but there are elements of the universe that are, in essence, already nothing.  Those elements just happen to be populated by something.  Remove the something, and the nothing is still there.  How can one take nothing from nothing?"
But your coming from a standpoint of things existing.
Imagine a place, actually, don't imagine anything.   The fact that even nothing is there is weird.

I know it sounds weird, but assuming nothing exists is an assumption that is already making a universe/ those surrounding it.
This would make a neat twighlight zone episode, though they couldn't do it.

Dang.  This is why are believe in witches, ghosts, and whatnot.  Because I just can't see nothing even take root to exist.


Post by TheGreatGuero (3,036 posts) See mini bio
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Uhh... okay.


Post by Wildfire570 (194 posts) See mini bio
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@Mac said:

"Don't bother thinking about it. Your mind, like mine and all of ours, is too limited to fully grasp what non-existance is. It's one of the limits of being human.And honestly, our dreams being reality is far more disturbing and interesting than reality being a dream. Think about it, our dreams are disjointed and grotesque, ruled by the very lack of logic and coherence, whereas the world in which we are dreaming is just another veil and is still bound by the rules of our logic when you consider us awakening. "


Yeah the sad part is that with my ADHD every time I try to do deep thinking, I get distracted...
Here's an example of a deep thinking conversation about the universe I had tired to have with a friend yesterday.

Friend: If the universe expands then how is it expanding? What is expanding the universe?

Me: I think the question we should ask is "Why is the univer-OOOH! A PENNY!!!!"



Post by DOUBLESHOCK (2,362 posts) See mini bio
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oh god... why WHY


Post by Death_Unicorn (1,033 posts) See mini bio
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Online Now

Please don't make forum topics about it, in fact, try not to think about these things, unless you're planning on becoming a theoretical physicist.



Post by MeatXbeatsXman (36 posts) See mini bio
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This is a stupid fucking question.


Post by Sick_J0ke (160 posts) See mini bio
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@SmugDarkLoser: 

If you're really so curious about all this stuff read A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking. He gives multiple explanations for how the universe came into existence and what could have happened before our universe came into being. But in all honesty, don't ask yourself these questions cause you'll find yourself too busy trying to answer them to realize it doesn't matter. 


Post by slinky6 (476 posts) See mini bio

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Your post was completely incoherent.   You're reading the bible too much, it's rubbing off on you.


Post by JeffGoldblum (1,526 posts) See mini bio
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A series of accidents.
Thats the reason anything exists.



Post by The_A_Drain (3,216 posts) See mini bio
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@Termite said:
"@Hailinel said:
" Trying to give a reason as to why existence exists is a pretty tall order.  It's hard to say that there could ever be truly "nothing", because even if the vastness of space was devoid of planets, stars, and galaxies, there would still be the vastness of space itself.  How can something like that not exist? "
Is there a solid boundary between the ends of our universe and...well...whatever is OUTSIDE of it? The universe is constantly expanding, but what is it expanding into? Is there anything outside the universe? GAH, these are questions that cannot yet really be answered. "

The only reason people think our universe as a boundary is because they are so closed minded, due to the nature of our lives and everything we do with them, humanity is unable to believe something else could truly be eternal, and so we impose limits on everything else.

As for the universe expanding, again, complete bullshit. Given that the 'big bang' was X many millions of years ago, light can only have traveled a certain distance in that time, and the light from outside this sphere (with earth as the centrepoint) has not yet reached the earth, so we cannot see it. Yet, as we get further and further from the big bang, more light reaches us because it has had longer to travel, and thus it appears to us that the universe is expanding when in reality, someone is turning on the lights, very very slowly.

It has also been proven than our galaxy is slowly on a collision course with another galaxy (dont worry, it's billions of billions of billions of years away from happening, our sun will have exploded before it happens) and that other galaxies have collided as well, it is not unreasonable to believe that after an unimagionable amount of time, every galaxy in the universe (or at least a big enough portion of the universe to reset itself, like I said we cannot see whether the universe has an end or not as light from that distance has not yet reached us) collides, it would render itself the correct conditions for another big bang, and the cycle starts again.

That's just my opinion/theory though, many scientists will tell you I am wrong, insane, misinformed etc, but then they all say that about everything until something proves them otherwise.


Post by Sick_J0ke (160 posts) See mini bio
176 ACH / 3545 P

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I  know in an off-topic forum anything goes... but the entire nature of this post is rediculous. I don't know if SmugDarkLoser is asking this question from a scientific or philosophical perspective? Better yet, I don't even know if he knows what he's asking. 


Post by Gunner (2,855 posts) See mini bio
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I find it amazing that people find it so hard to think about not existing.

the universe not existing is nothingness BTW, you cant say "what if nothingness didn't exist", thats a double negative.

Not existing = nothingness.


Post by Gunner (2,855 posts) See mini bio
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@JeffGoldblum said:
" A series of accidents.Thats the reason anything exists. "
Accidents require something to be planned to begin with..




Post by angelkanarias (929 posts) See mini bio
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chuck norris made all of it


Post by Sick_J0ke (160 posts) See mini bio
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@angelkanarias said:
" chuck norris made all of it "
Holy shit! You're brilliant!

I agree 100% and will leave this thread alone now for more relevant topics that I care about.... and that have actual answers. 


Post by Vager (130 posts) See mini bio
1951 ACH / 28253 P

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@The_A_Drain said:
"As for the universe expanding, again, complete bullshit. Given that the 'big bang' was X many millions of years ago, light can only have traveled a certain distance in that time, and the light from outside this sphere (with earth as the centrepoint) has not yet reached the earth, so we cannot see it. Yet, as we get further and further from the big bang, more light reaches us because it has had longer to travel, and thus it appears to us that the universe is expanding when in reality, someone is turning on the lights, very very slowly."
If everything came from the big bang and nothing can go faster then the speed of light. It would be impossible for any sort of mass not to have seen the light from the big bang.
I may of read it wrong, but that is how I understood it.


Post by The_A_Drain (3,216 posts) See mini bio
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@Vager:

No that's right, but the light from the big bang is a constant blanket of a small amount (undetectable without special equipment, essentially background radiation) of light. I forget which piece of equipment is used to monitor it, but it shows up as a low green that is everywhere, even empty space.

However, stars forming, dying, etc etc, things that happened after the big bang cannot be seen until the light showing that event happening reaches us personally. Light from the big bang itself is everywhere, but light from other object created after the big bang has only had (x = years since the big bang) to reach us, which is why we can only see things that are x lightyears away from us. And the further we look (imagine a sphere, the centre of which is us, earth, the outer shell of which is as far as we can see) the older that light is and it shows us the history of those objects, not them as they are today.

If you look the absolute maximum distance we can see, what you are seeing is events as they are happening moments after the big bang. We essentially see back in time as we look further out. But we can only look a certain distance because light from anything beyond that hasn't reached us, and as it is constantly travelling that sphere obviously gets bigger, thus the illusion that out universe is expanding.


Post by JeffGoldblum (1,526 posts) See mini bio
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@JeffGoldblum said:
" @Gunner said:
" @JeffGoldblum said:
" A series of accidents.Thats the reason anything exists. "
Accidents require something to be planned to begin with.. "

ac⋅ci⋅dent


[ak-si-duhnt] –noun
1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.
2. Law. such a happening resulting in injury that is in no way the fault of the injured person for which compensation or indemnity is legally sought.
3. any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.
"
Im talking about the third definition.


Post by Insectecutor (328 posts) See mini bio
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@SmugDarkLoser said:
But your coming from a standpoint of things existing. Imagine a place, actually, don't imagine anything.   The fact that even nothing is there is weird.I know it sounds weird, but assuming nothing exists is an assumption that is already making a universe/ those surrounding it.This would make a neat twighlight zone episode, though they couldn't do it. Dang.  This is why are believe in witches, ghosts, and whatnot.  Because I just can't see nothing even take root to exist. "
Dude: Read some books. I can recommend The Fabric of Reality by David Deutsch. Although he does get a bit crazy with the multiple worlds theory, it's still a fascinating read.

Realise first, though, that we're all ignorant monkeys with an incredibly limited ability to sense the reality around us, and there's complicated quantum shit going on here. What if our reality is just a harmonic on some unknown wave, what if our reality is just a brief interference pattern in the universal noise? What if our big bang was actually a firecracker going off in a much bigger universe one level up? What if there are multiple universes created all the time? What if every time we flip a coin reality branches into two separate instances, one in which the coin falls heads and another in which the coin falls tails?

Who the fuck knows?



Post by Vager (130 posts) See mini bio
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@The_A_Drain:

So if the big bang is true and the universe started as a small dense object then blew up, thus expanding the universe. Why would it suddenly stop expanding? That would imply some kind of barrier is preventing it from expanding.


Post by Snail (3,619 posts) See mini bio
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What kind of a fucking question is...

You know what? Never mind. Coming from you, nothing surprises me anymore.


Post by raidingkvatch (303 posts) See mini bio
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Ah the problems of existentialism

EDIT: Also the Universe is infinite, therefore has always been will always be. Outside of time and space it is reality, by extension is that not what God is, not only a creator, but everything and simultaneously nothing.

Damn I miss my philosophy and ethics GCSE class