What if the universe didn't exist?

Topic started by SmugDarkLoser on June 29, 2009. Last post by cspiffo 4 months ago.
Post by The_A_Drain (3,216 posts) See mini bio
2301 ACH / 51325 P

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@Vager:

In order for matter to occupy a space, that space must exist. It doesn't matter if objects are continuing to travel further from the centrepoint of the big bang (which we can neither prove nor disprove, only theorise) there must be universe for them to travel into. If you see what i'm saying.

The universe is infinite, it goes on forever, but the vast majority of it is filled with nothing, not even dark matter., just simple emptyness. The big bang just thrust objects/materials/etc into the portion of the universe surrounding it. As I said above I theorise that once enough material gathers in a black hole (at the centre of each galaxy is a black hole, this has been proven already, huge giant ones, and when they collide, they get even bigger) it unleashes another big bang. Obviously emptyness/nothing cannot be drawn into a black hole, there is nothing to draw. The the universe didnt start out as a small dense object, it didnt start out at all, it has simply always existed and always will. It's just the objects that occupy it (or as I theorise, small portions of it) that collected into a small dense mass before exploding back out again.

I don't believe that the universe itself has any kind of edge, or barrier, I believe that even if it is simple emptyness it goes on to infinity. (Besides, even if you could draw nothing into a black hole to create a small dense object, where would that object be? It can't be nowhere as that nowhere has to be somewhere... There can't be 'nothing' outside it, because that would still be the universe.)


Post by Kohe321 (1,685 posts) See mini bio
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@Wolverine said:
" Well if the universe didn't exist then Giant Bomb wouldn't exist and that would suck. :( "
Word


Post by Termite (1,801 posts) See mini bio

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@The_A_Drain said:
" @Termite said:
"@Hailinel said:
" Trying to give a reason as to why existence exists is a pretty tall order.  It's hard to say that there could ever be truly "nothing", because even if the vastness of space was devoid of planets, stars, and galaxies, there would still be the vastness of space itself.  How can something like that not exist? "
Is there a solid boundary between the ends of our universe and...well...whatever is OUTSIDE of it? The universe is constantly expanding, but what is it expanding into? Is there anything outside the universe? GAH, these are questions that cannot yet really be answered. "
The only reason people think our universe as a boundary is because they are so closed minded, due to the nature of our lives and everything we do with them, humanity is unable to believe something else could truly be eternal, and so we impose limits on everything else. As for the universe expanding, again, complete bullshit. Given that the 'big bang' was X many millions of years ago, light can only have traveled a certain distance in that time, and the light from outside this sphere (with earth as the centrepoint) has not yet reached the earth, so we cannot see it. Yet, as we get further and further from the big bang, more light reaches us because it has had longer to travel, and thus it appears to us that the universe is expanding when in reality, someone is turning on the lights, very very slowly.It has also been proven than our galaxy is slowly on a collision course with another galaxy (dont worry, it's billions of billions of billions of years away from happening, our sun will have exploded before it happens) and that other galaxies have collided as well, it is not unreasonable to believe that after an unimagionable amount of time, every galaxy in the universe (or at least a big enough portion of the universe to reset itself, like I said we cannot see whether the universe has an end or not as light from that distance has not yet reached us) collides, it would render itself the correct conditions for another big bang, and the cycle starts again.That's just my opinion/theory though, many scientists will tell you I am wrong, insane, misinformed etc, but then they all say that about everything until something proves them otherwise. "
So people are close-minded for believing that nothing can exist out of the very boundary of time and space? I read up on this a bit more and from what I can gather the commonly accepted model is that all time and space must exist INSIDE the universe, and that since there are no dimensions outside of the universe our commonly accepted notion of nothingness is insufficient to describe the sheer lack of ANYTHING outside of the universe.

The onus is on you two provide evidence that dimension can exist outside of the universe as we now it thus allowing matter to exist there.

And please, stop it with the parentheticals. I'm not sure if you intended them to be quite so condescending, but they are, and anybody who's watched the Discovery Channel has probably heard all of that information before.


Post by Lydian_Sel (484 posts) See mini bio
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Didn't Hitch-Hiker's Guide already cover this question???




Post by GrilledCheez01 (741 posts) See mini bio
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See, just when I got over my period of these types of questions you had to make a thread like this.  I usually don't ask the why questions though, those are for the simpletons. 


Post by tekmojo (1,521 posts) See mini bio
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Whoa
Whoa



Post by Einherjan (347 posts) See mini bio
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@alsnuts2 said:
" This is exactly why I dont post drunk "



Post by The_A_Drain (3,216 posts) See mini bio
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@Termite:

Given that even the commonly accepted model is simply theoretical, the onus isn't simply on me to provide evidence. There is very little evidence to support any of the commonly accepted theories as it is, just more evidence than other theories.

How can I provide evidence for a theory which at this present time, cannot be proven or disproven? I can't, all I can do is theorise, and I find the idea that the universe simply stops, and that dimensions cannot exist outside of this bubble to be ludicrous. Unless someone presents me a theory as to why dimensions, time and space cannot exist in this area of absolute nothingness, then I will continue to believe that they do exist there, even if it is in another form from the one we currently enjoy. I also support several other theories, such as the multiverse theory, but I believe this theory is the correct one, and seeing as noone can prove or disprove any of them it's a little rich to say I and I alone need to provide evidence isn't it?


Post by Termite (1,801 posts) See mini bio

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@The_A_Drain said:
" @Termite: Given that even the commonly accepted model is simply theoretical, the onus isn't simply on me to provide evidence. There is very little evidence to support any of the commonly accepted theories as it is, just more evidence than other theories. How can I provide evidence for a theory which at this present time, cannot be proven or disproven? I can't, all I can do is theorise, and I find the idea that the universe simply stops, and that dimensions cannot exist outside of this bubble to be ludicrous. Unless someone presents me a theory as to why dimensions, time and space cannot exist in this area of absolute nothingness, then I will continue to believe that they do exist there, even if it is in another form from the one we currently enjoy. I also support several other theories, such as the multiverse theory, but I believe this theory is the correct one, and seeing as noone can prove or disprove any of them it's a little rich to say I and I alone need to provide evidence isn't it? "
If you're going to call the concept of an expanding universe bullshit, then you should give some justification for calling it bullshit. How is the concept of an infinite universe any more ludicrous than the concept of one with boundaries? There's nothing wrong with your theorizing, but calling other theories that are just as valid as yours bullshit and not giving a satisfactory answer as to why is sheer arrogance.

I never said that the current theories were anything more than theoretical, I'm saying that if you're going to call them bullshit then you're going to have to give some evidence that your theory is more credible or valid than the others. So far you haven't.



Post by Jesus (590 posts) See mini bio

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guys the purpose of life is to have sex.
Bang as many babes as you can.
Get to it!


Post by The_A_Drain (3,216 posts) See mini bio
2301 ACH / 51325 P

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@Termite:

I overuse the word bullshit, I simply meant to imply that I consider the accepted theory to be unnaceptable, and then explained why I think this (I think this because I feel that because humanity has limits, it sees fit to impose limits on everything it sees or tries to explain, hence I the "The universe is finite, outside that is nothing" to be unnacceptable)

Sure, my theory (and others) are no more or less provable than any others, including the currently accepted theory, but if I feel a theory is silly, i'm going to say that. I cannot provide evidence for this theory, but I can explain why I feel the current accepted theory is likely to be incorrect, and I felt I had done that.


Post by cc23574 (621 posts) See mini bio

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What if Giantbomb didn't exist?

Think about that.


Post by Tebbit (685 posts) See mini bio
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How did I know that skipping 2 pages forward on this thread would result in a handful of people taking the question seriously? ;p
@Lydian_Sel said:
" Didn't Hitch-Hiker's Guide already cover this question??? "
I believe it was 42.


Post by kashif1 (480 posts) See mini bio
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@SmugDarkLoser said:
" @Hailinel said:
"Trying to give a reason as to why existence exists is a pretty tall order.  It's hard to say that there could ever be truly "nothing", because even if the vastness of space was devoid of planets, stars, and galaxies, there would still be the vastness of space itself.  How can something like that not exist?"
Why does that have to exist? What caused anything to be?I just don't get it.  Science will obviously never find an answer as they'll just get to the point after it.  You can always ask why that happened. I'm just curious.  Why in the world would it?  Jees, I'm inspired to write a book about it, but I don't think I'm right in the head to do it now.  And lol, like anyone who starts a book finishes it like me.  "
god is the only answer for that question


Post by Termite (1,801 posts) See mini bio

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@The_A_Drain:

Drain, from what I can tell, your theory is just the Big Crunch theory with the concept of an infinite universe tacked on. For the Big Crunch part of the theory, perhaps I am using the wrong search terms but Google turns up very little information on papers or studies done concerning the Big Crunch theory. What little I have gathered though, has all concerned at least two studies performed in the past that both came to the conclusion that there is not enough matter in the universe to create the gravitational pull required to pull everything in the universe back into the singularity which would then explode out once again according to you. A theory is only as good as the facts and evidence it is based on, and so far I'm not seeing a very good basis for that aspect of your theory.

And as for the part about people applying boundaries to things to understand them, that's completely true. The reason I don't have a problem with that is because it's really the only way we can comprehend things. It's like those people that say that God is anything and everything. That's all fine and dandy but every time I've heard somebody pose that as their interpretation of God they've followed it up with "yeah, you really can't comprehend God, you just need faith m'kay?". That's fine for spirituality, but in science we're supposed to try and really understand and comprehend things which is exactly what things without boundaries make impossible.

Then you somehow come to the conclusion that since humans put boundaries on things to understand them, the universe having boundaries is unacceptable and invalid.

Anyway, I'm not really trying to refute your theory. You can believe in it all you like, but I suggest that the next time you go and call other theories unacceptable, you instead sort of the issues with your own theory and thus elevate it over the others. Just as it is better to bring yourself up instead of putting others down, you should bring your theory up instead of putting others down.


Post by creamypies (1,180 posts) See mini bio
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We're part of the matrix dude! The universe is just a conspiracy set up by the government! They're out to get us man! ARGH!


Post by Otacon (1,400 posts) See mini bio
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Saying 'what if nothing existed?' is similar to saying, what if 1+1 didn't equal 2, existence is part of natural inference. Still a good question but as with mathematical theorem we just have to accept that things do exist.


Post by Willy105 (1,678 posts) See mini bio

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If the universe did not exist, then nothing will happen. Period.


Post by Mikemcn (1,661 posts) See mini bio
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Then no one would be around to give a dam


Post by darkspirit138 (297 posts) See mini bio
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We would all sing and eat pie in heaven.


Post by Sprizmo (217 posts) See mini bio
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The Universe exists due to opposing concepts of nothing and something meeting each other in the middle. Certain things could not exist without something else to oppose their right to be there. Night and day, hot and cold, and perhaps even good and evil. What I mean is, the universe is the biproduct of the resulting chaos.


Post by PrimevilKneivel (68 posts) See mini bio
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There'd be fewer stupid posts from people that should take Philosophy 101.

You're not that deep, just uneducated.


Post by Gunner (2,841 posts) See mini bio
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@JeffGoldblum said:
" @JeffGoldblum said:
" @Gunner said:
" @JeffGoldblum said:
" A series of accidents.Thats the reason anything exists. "
Accidents require something to be planned to begin with.. "

ac⋅ci⋅dent


[ak-si-duhnt] –noun
1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.
2. Law. such a happening resulting in injury that is in no way the fault of the injured person for which compensation or indemnity is legally sought.
3. any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.
"
Im talking about the third definition. "
man, i just got owned.

*walks away with head down*


Post by mracoon (1,839 posts) See mini bio
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I've never really thought about it and to be honest I don't really care because the universe does exist.


Post by Meltbrain (1,170 posts) See mini bio
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@expletive said:
" better yet, what if you were your fathers father, think about it "
And your mother was your sister.


Post by Sick_J0ke (160 posts) See mini bio
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@PrimevilKneivel said:
" There'd be fewer stupid posts from people that should take Philosophy 101. You're not that deep, just uneducated. "
Best answer I've heard so far, and very true. 


Post by skywing (545 posts) See mini bio
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What you're saying is nonsence; it's not a scientific question.
How can you test such a statmement?  If you disprove existance doesn't that imply that our conception of cognition and free thought is a lie?


Post by Illmatic (757 posts) See mini bio
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@SmugDarkLoser said:
" @Termite said:
"@Hailinel said:
" Trying to give a reason as to why existence exists is a pretty tall order.  It's hard to say that there could ever be truly "nothing", because even if the vastness of space was devoid of planets, stars, and galaxies, there would still be the vastness of space itself.  How can something like that not exist? "
Is there a solid boundary between the ends of our universe and...well...whatever is OUTSIDE of it? The universe is constantly expanding, but what is it expanding into? Is there anything outside the universe? GAH, these are questions that cannot yet really be answered. "
Well actually, you're confused.  When people say that, they mean the galaxies are all moving away from each other.  Think about as if the space is a bowl of infinity, while the galaxies are just cheerios going towards the edge of the endless bowls. "
Yes, but to move away from each other, there needs to be something to move into as well. I can't move my body without leaving one space and entering another. I don't leave this space and enter nothingness when I step away from this computer or even move my fingers to the next key. There is always something there. What he's getting at is in a world that is bounded by limits (walls, floors, atmosphere, gravity, etc.) what bounds the universe? And if something bounds the universe, what is outside that bound as it expands?


Post by SinGulaR (1,166 posts) See mini bio
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Dude, I just asked myself the same question. Why does the universe exist? Does it exist so one can ask why? Is it all a dream? And if so: whos's the dreamer? Are we all real or are we just shadows of possibilitys manifested in a certain plane of probabiltiy? Are there other planes of relevance were other things exist? Is the theory of the quantum mirror and multiple dimensions true? Are there other realitys that exist just a slight dimensional shift away? Why can't I lick my elbows? Why can't I own a plane that doesn't use any fuel and is as easy to fly as a toy? How long to technical singularity? Are we all engineered to run a giant AI? Why is the answer 42? What is the right question to this answer? Where is my towel? Why can't I stop asking stupid questions?



Post by expletive (811 posts) See mini bio
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@Meltbrain said:
" @expletive said:
" better yet, what if you were your fathers father, think about it "
And your mother was your sister. "
yeah, but that can be explained by incest, where as the father thing would just break the universe