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#1 Edited by minivan (173 posts) -
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#2 Posted by erhard (388 posts) -

Whenever someone complains about Windows 8 and they begin by talking about the start menu I can't help but tune out everything else they're saying because they've already proven themselves to be an idiot. Of course you're going to have trouble and complain if you don't bother to learn the most basic features of your new OS.

You press the Windows key, by the way.

#3 Posted by Hailinel (23907 posts) -

@erhard said:

Whenever someone complains about Windows 8 and they begin by talking about the start menu I can't help but tune out everything else they're saying because they've already proven themselves to be an idiot. Of course you're going to have trouble and complain if you don't bother to learn the most basic features of your new OS.

You press the Windows key, by the way.

Starting off by calling people idiots for not having the same level of appreciation of an OS as you do proves you're not worth conversing with.

Not everyone likes Windows 8. Get over it.

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#4 Edited by minivan (173 posts) -

@erhard: Man I was hoping to start an intelligent discussion about the future of the OS. People who prefer the old start menu aren't automatically idiots.

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#5 Edited by Ben_H (3311 posts) -

If they make it how it was like Windows 7 and make it such that when you hit the Windows key to search for something, the entire screen isn't covered, that would be wonderful. That was my biggest gripe with 8.1 when I was using it.

I might actually upgrade if they brought it back. Right now I am perfectly fine with 7.

#6 Posted by minivan (173 posts) -

I think the biggest question is whether Microsoft wants to stick with its current direction, where all versions of the OS are (in theory) usable with both touch and a mouse. If they're willing to restrict tablet users to metro, and mouse users to the desktop, they may actually be able to evolve the desktop experience in a positive way. Mac OS X continues to improve as a mouse-only system while successfully incorporating elements from iOS.

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#7 Posted by TobbRobb (4581 posts) -

When do I get to customize the metro area to stop looking like vomit on my screen? I know it's supposed to be slick and fluid, but I'd rather take some clunky UI that I can optimize on my own. It's my PC dammit, not my phone.

Also you know, please give any reason whatsoever to upgrade from 7 outside from "it boots slightly faster"

#8 Edited by SamStrife (1282 posts) -

@erhard said:

Whenever someone complains about Windows 8 and they begin by talking about the start menu I can't help but tune out everything else they're saying because they've already proven themselves to be an idiot. Of course you're going to have trouble and complain if you don't bother to learn the most basic features of your new OS.

You press the Windows key, by the way.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS.

I am of the mindset that Windows 8 is the best OS ever released by Microsoft, with Windows 8.1 being the cherry on top.

I think people who think it's bad are so fearful of any change, they're complaining about lack of start menu (as they know it) and ignoring everything that Windows 8 does better than 7 (which is most everything).

The start menu in those pictures looks a ittle bit cramped but ultimately fine...I mean it's pretty much how it is now compressed into a smaller space...to like that would be admittance that you think the current version is also fine.

#9 Posted by AlexW00d (6186 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@erhard said:

Whenever someone complains about Windows 8 and they begin by talking about the start menu I can't help but tune out everything else they're saying because they've already proven themselves to be an idiot. Of course you're going to have trouble and complain if you don't bother to learn the most basic features of your new OS.

You press the Windows key, by the way.

Starting off by calling people idiots for not having the same level of appreciation of an OS as you do proves you're not worth conversing with.

Not everyone likes Windows 8. Get over it.

He's right though, anyone who complains about the Start Menu is an idiot.

#10 Posted by alwaysbebombing (1539 posts) -

So they want the longer, more difficult way to find apps? Instead of just tapping the windows key and typing in 2 letters of the program you want and hitting enter? Is it just people resistant to change?

#11 Posted by SamStrife (1282 posts) -

So they want the longer, more difficult way to find apps? Instead of just tapping the windows key and typing in 2 letters of the program you want and hitting enter? Is it just people resistant to change?

Yup. People think they're so cool hating on Windows 8 still that they're missing out on the slickest way to search for stuff on your PC yet.

#12 Posted by alwaysbebombing (1539 posts) -

@alwaysbebombing said:

So they want the longer, more difficult way to find apps? Instead of just tapping the windows key and typing in 2 letters of the program you want and hitting enter? Is it just people resistant to change?

Yup. People think they're so cool hating on Windows 8 still that they're missing out on the slickest way to search for stuff on your PC yet.

I don't know if I just type really fast, but I don't even see the Windows screen, it's just a quick flash. So I really don't understand any of the arguments against it.

#13 Posted by Veektarius (4601 posts) -

I'm not crazy about all the stuff on Metro that I never click (I can probably take it off if I really wanted to) and I really don't like that some 'apps' run inside metro while almost all real programs run in the desktop. People who aren't willing to adapt to a new UI should not be the target of further improvements.

#14 Posted by Pr1mus (3812 posts) -

I like how 99% of the arguments in favor of Windows 8 in this thread and others like it are to call anyone who doesn't like Windows 8 an idiot. You people are really doing great by the OS in convincing people to leave Win 7 behind.

#15 Edited by fatalbanana (176 posts) -

@alexw00d said:

@hailinel said:

@erhard said:

Whenever someone complains about Windows 8 and they begin by talking about the start menu I can't help but tune out everything else they're saying because they've already proven themselves to be an idiot. Of course you're going to have trouble and complain if you don't bother to learn the most basic features of your new OS.

You press the Windows key, by the way.

Starting off by calling people idiots for not having the same level of appreciation of an OS as you do proves you're not worth conversing with.

Not everyone likes Windows 8. Get over it.

He's right though, anyone who complains about the Start Menu is an idiot.

To me Windows 8 is fine but the start screen isn't very good. Its awkward to use with a mouse, the way regular apps mix with metro ones is weird, there are very few metro apps and a lot of them aren't very good, simple OS functions are buried in weird ways and harder than it should be to get to. I like the way metro looks and I like the basic idea of having that start screen even on a desktop computer but there's just too many things that are frustrating about using it. So I prefer the regular start menu though the start screen is easy enough to ignore.

#16 Posted by chiablo (905 posts) -

This thread reads like a bunch of Microsoft marketers stumbled upon the GB forums.

The good parts of Windows 8 are great, but not everyone uses the OS the same. The changes to the start menu are annoying and there's no reason to not give people the option to chose either a touch-based interface or legacy.

#17 Posted by TheHBK (5463 posts) -

We are moving into a world of tablets, touch screens being the norm on computers sold today. While that concept is nice, it only looks like eyecandy for when you are on the desktop. The modern or metro UI is made for tablets, touch screens. If people had that and only that, there are no complaints. But people are stuck to the keyboard and mouse, the old way of doing things. Apple has a nice OS but that shit looks old as hell because it is only made for desktops and laptops, keyboard and mouse. They just keep adding shit to it instead of actually changing it to fit what people are moving to. But they do it because they can. Their laptops sell because people are sold on the idea of it being easy to use. Honestly, the expose feature is probably what has me using my macbook over a windows laptop. But they just add shit that is useless. Tags? And they like to keep things segmented. Tablets? Ok use an ipad. While the Windows vision is that they can be essentially the same experience on your desktop, laptop or tablet. That is what I think is really neat and that is the challenge. To make something that works well across all 3. Or 4 because they are giving you that same feeling on the phone too. I saw the video on there and they seem to think that holding the windows button to overlay metro seems to be a good idea but holding a button sucks ass. The windows button or key would just throw you to metro faster than that.

We all know that windows had to change otherwise just stick to Windows 7. Why the hate? It is not like they made Windows 7 disappear and that is what I don't get. People getting all emotional and saying they hate W8. Uh, are you being forced into it? Did it kill your parents in an alley when you were 8? So why the hate? Stop it you candyasses. Just look at the OS for what it can do. You don't need the damn start menu. Learn to use the OS instead of complaining that its not like the old one. Pin your programs. Learn to access programs through the windows key, metro and even having the start menu there in 8.1. Oh and did I mention that it is a better running OS? Boots faster and more resource efficient? So much so that when I can get Battlfield 4 to run, it runs almost 10 frames faster?

#18 Posted by AlexW00d (6186 posts) -

@fatalbanana: If I ever need to open a program that isn't on my taskbar I hit the Windows Key and type the first 2-3 letters and hit enter and I have it running. It's exactly how I used the start menu in previous iterations (and the same as everyone else I have spoke to about it) but now the search function is much better.

#19 Edited by Baillie (4039 posts) -

OS X guys.

#20 Edited by Butano (1728 posts) -

I do like the concept video a lot. It's basically the only way to appeal to Classic Start mode and Modern Start fans. And of course, there's always 3rd party start software to remedy that just fine. I like both, actually gonna upgrade my desktop to 8 once I get back from work as my SSD comes in today.

#21 Edited by EXTomar (4500 posts) -

@alexw00d said:

@fatalbanana: If I ever need to open a program that isn't on my taskbar I hit the Windows Key and type the first 2-3 letters and hit enter and I have it running. It's exactly how I used the start menu in previous iterations (and the same as everyone else I have spoke to about it) but now the search function is much better.

The issue, and it is a legitamate concern, is the "Start Menu" already can take a bit to enumerate/build. With the way Win 8 works, it is now even clunkier and noisier instead of zippier and helpful because of all of the junk it needs that have nothing to do with "show me apps".

#22 Edited by fatalbanana (176 posts) -

@alexw00d: See that's not how I used it a lot of the time. I liked putting shortcuts of what I frequently used on the start menu and only searching when I needed to. Looking at it that way the shortcuts are faster then searching at least on previous versions of windows. It may be faster and easier on windows 8 but I prefer shortcuts and the ease of using them on windows 7.

#23 Edited by DonPixel (2585 posts) -

@baillie said:

OS X guys.

yeah say what you will about Apple being evil. OSx is pretty fucking sweet, it is pretty much the perfect form of UNIX.

#24 Edited by DonPixel (2585 posts) -

@alexw00d: Most real complains about problems with usability/productivity from people who ACTUALLY WORKS professionally in their computers have nothing to do with the lack of a start menu thou.

#25 Posted by EXTomar (4500 posts) -

Hey now, I think Ubuntu 10 had the right combination of desktop features where the shell acted as a finder and explorer which is really what you want for this feature. Cononical keeps messing with it where "changing it" isn't the problem but it is an issue of "changing to what end?"

Right now that isn't what is happening in Win 8 where in fact it reminds me of a crazy old thing in ME that you could install where it merged MSN.com and the start menu into a crazy mess.

#26 Posted by SlashDance (1804 posts) -

@alwaysbebombing said:

So they want the longer, more difficult way to find apps? Instead of just tapping the windows key and typing in 2 letters of the program you want and hitting enter? Is it just people resistant to change?

Yup. People think they're so cool hating on Windows 8 still that they're missing out on the slickest way to search for stuff on your PC yet.

Windows 7 does precisely the same thing. I've been using the "tapping the windows key and typing in 2 letters" method for years.

#27 Posted by jsnyder82 (726 posts) -

As someone who works in IT, Windows 8 is perfectly fine. There, I said it.

#28 Posted by VACkillers (1059 posts) -

I just think they need to completely dump the whole Windows Phone OS idea and start with a traditional look and feel windows with a big refresh. The whole idea of Windows 8 is the preminise of using touch screen monitors which not even 2% of PC Desktop computers even have, yes you can use a mouse but its fucking retarded and the actions you have to do is just nonsense and useless, and hard to find exactly what you want without having to go through so much shit to find it. The whole idea of SOCIAL and having everyones bloody name everywhere I go or photos on the front page of my windows operating system is completely retarded, Windows OS's are NOT facebook, or twitter, not EVERYONE wants that shit, actually I can guarantee you MOST people don't actually. This 60s and 70s tile look is just stupid, old hack, and just simply doesn't belong on a desktop operating system, just keep that to the tablets and mobile devices where all that shit is popular for teens and 22 yr olds.

The Start Menu argument is only a fraction of why windows 8 is just stupid, its not the most thing people complain about, its only one! of the things people complained about.

#29 Posted by OldManLight (828 posts) -

@minivan said:

@erhard: Man I was hoping to start an intelligent discussion about the future of the OS. People who prefer the old start menu aren't automatically idiots.

This, there's nothing wrong with the Metro interface. I think Microsoft having something at the OS level that can live in both worlds as far as self contained apps like mobile devices have and full on windows software programs is a smart move. The current UI just isn't as welcome on a desktop mouse and keyboard setup. For example, hovering the mouse cursor over a corner or edge of the screen in place of tapping there with my finger on a touchscreen is super annoying for someone who uses a dual screen setup on a desktop PC.

There's some really good stuff in windows 8 and 8.1 but them forcing an interface optimized for a touch screen on people who are using a mouse and keyboard is the main issue. all other complaints to me are secondary to this. To get around this, they should include an interface preference that will adjust the OS for your intended input method. I installed Classic Shell on my windows 8.1 desktop last night because my wife literally will not use my computer (intended for work related purpooses) without it having the desktop and a more familiar start menu readily available. Classic start menu setup for people using a traditional PC just makes sense.

#30 Posted by Sin4profit (2908 posts) -

After learning that right clicking in the bottom left hand corner brings me all the options i'd travel the start menu for the start menu is not necessary for me.

Windows 8 is still a half assed effort for how it handles legacy apps. Having app icons be the embodiment of the programs themselves is a good idea in that you simply delete the icon from the app list which triggers the program to uninstall, that's a smart design.

In windows 8 if you go to uninstall legacy apps it takes you to the desktop's uninstall windows and doesn't even highlight the program you were originally trying to uninstall, that's pretty half-assed.

It's unfortunate they have to do all this backtracking rather than make the OS actually good.

#31 Posted by Random45 (1051 posts) -

I actually have a quick question about Windows 8. It's not on my main computer, so I don't toy around with it much, but is there a way to make it so clicking in the top right and left corner doesn't take you to the stupid metro screen? I swear to god, every time I try to click the back button or the X button, I accidentally click there, and it's just a huge pain in the ass.

#32 Posted by Kidavenger (3511 posts) -

8 was a disaster, but 8.1 is perfectly fine / better than 7, if you have 8.1 and are still complaining you are either the .001% that have some weird legacy program incompatibility that could and has happened with every single windows version change since 3.1, or you just aren't giving it a chance.

8.1 is great.

#33 Posted by spraynardtatum (2608 posts) -

@pr1mus said:

I like how 99% of the arguments in favor of Windows 8 in this thread and others like it are to call anyone who doesn't like Windows 8 an idiot. You people are really doing great by the OS in convincing people to leave Win 7 behind.

#35 Posted by Hunter5024 (5543 posts) -
@tobbrobb said:

When do I get to customize the metro area to stop looking like vomit on my screen? I know it's supposed to be slick and fluid, but I'd rather take some clunky UI that I can optimize on my own. It's my PC dammit, not my phone.

Also you know, please give any reason whatsoever to upgrade from 7 outside from "it boots slightly faster"

Dude... It boots slightly faster! Why isn't that enough for you!?

#36 Posted by tourgen (4427 posts) -

So they want the longer, more difficult way to find apps? Instead of just tapping the windows key and typing in 2 letters of the program you want and hitting enter? Is it just people resistant to change?

I'm sorry are you arguing for command line auto-complete? Because that's not progress that's a linux shell from 1998.

#37 Edited by Rowr (5480 posts) -

As someone who owns a tablet/laptop hybrid, i think windows 8 works great.

In any other situation (desktop only/tablet only) I can see it sucking.

I feel like it wouldn't be hard to keep the start menu in desktop view (which i still click/touch accidentally) and putting a button right next to it for the metro switch. Not difficult.

Edit - To be fair my first exposure is 8.1 so i can't comment much as far as 8.

#38 Edited by DonPixel (2585 posts) -

@spraynardtatum said:

@pr1mus said:

I like how 99% of the arguments in favor of Windows 8 in this thread and others like it are to call anyone who doesn't like Windows 8 an idiot. You people are really doing great by the OS in convincing people to leave Win 7 behind.

It also seems those same people in favor of W8 don't actually work on their computers, they use w8 to search a legacy app and launch it, AKA steam machine. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but as I pointed out there are legitimate complains about W8 on professional environments.

Try work with video/image editing in W8 stock, it is such a pain in the ass. Preview a 100x100 jpg on full screen NOT COOL. There are work arounds to "fix" such issues, but then you shouldn't be wasting time fixing a poorly designed OS.

Hopefully the new update seems to be addressing some of those issues with multi tasking, let windowS be windows, not a window.

#39 Posted by Thaeral (3 posts) -

@donpixel said:

@spraynardtatum said:

@pr1mus said:

I like how 99% of the arguments in favor of Windows 8 in this thread and others like it are to call anyone who doesn't like Windows 8 an idiot. You people are really doing great by the OS in convincing people to leave Win 7 behind.

It also seems those same people in favor of W8 don't actually work on their computers, they use w8 to search a legacy app and launch it, AKA steam machine. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but as I pointed out there are legitimate complains about W8 on professional environments.

Try work with video/image editing in W8 stock, it is such a pain in the ass. Preview a 100x100 jpg on full screen NOT COOL. There are work arounds to "fix" such issues, but then you shouldn't be wasting time fixing a poorly designed OS.

Hopefully the new update seems to be addressing some of those issues with multi tasking, let windowS be windows, not a window.

I suppose up to Windows 8, you did all of your video editing in Windows Movie Maker and image editing in MS Paint because those are pre-Windows 8 stock?

Come on, you guys sound like you are just making up excuses to rationalize your irrational behavior. Windows-Key app searches is using the OS as it was designed. They incorporated Launchy into the OS and it's brilliant. You can either use the Metro Apps or not use them. I don't use the Start screen for anything. The only Metro app I use is Xbox Music. I only ever used the Start menu in Windows 7 for the program search as well. Who would want to click a dozen times for anything when you can just go directly to it with a few keystrokes?

There has never been a version of Windows that I have not customized to suit my needs. Since when did that become cheating or a work around? They design these options into the OS - it's part of it. How is it a work around if they designed it into the OS?

There are certainly compatibility issues. But this is no different than the jump to Windows 95 or the jump to Windows NT Kernel based XP. The implementation of the Metro interface and apps in Windows 8 feel stupid. You'll get no argument from me. But I can enjoy an everything is faster in Windows 8 experience and almost never have to look at a Metro anything. I learn to use it and make it serve my needs.

I don't think you're idiots. I think you're terribly uncomfortable with change. Of doing things differently than you're used to - regardless of whether they're better (faster) or not.

"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is most adaptable to change." - Charles Darwin

#40 Posted by Hailinel (23907 posts) -

@thaeral: Or maybe people simply don't like the interface as much. It's absolutely moronic that people are judging the values and intellect of others over OS preferences. How is it more difficult to accept differences in taste than it is to psychoanalyze someone that doesn't like Windows 8?

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#41 Posted by spraynardtatum (2608 posts) -

@thaeral: I know. People that don't like Windows 8 are stubborn babies. They don't even know what's good for them. Survival of the fittest, right? Lolz anyways....I'm going to get back to my Xbox Music app. Leave these neckbeards in the dusk and join the Galactic Confederacy for Xenu amirite?

#42 Posted by AMyggen (2549 posts) -

I agree with the thread title edit.

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#43 Posted by Pr1mus (3812 posts) -

@thaeral: Dude, if you're going to say something this moronic at least have the decency of leaving me out of the discussion.

"I like windows 8 and know FOR A FACT how everyone else in the ENTIRE world use it too as well as how they use windows 7 and that they are either idiots or terribly uncomfortable with change for not liking windows 8 too."

That's how a lot of people sound.

#44 Edited by Blu3V3nom07 (4160 posts) -

I love it. Plus, I love it that the designer guy has been responding to comments on the Verge, including: "And this is why the Director of User Experience for Windows, Windows Phone and Xbox is having a meeting with me?"

#45 Edited by Fattony12000 (7053 posts) -

I think Windows 7 is a very good operating system.

I have not used Windows 8 as of yet.

I will probably use Windows 8 when I need to.

#46 Posted by crithon (3081 posts) -

nothing worse then having a grandmother come to me going "what did I just do?" and there's a few things on split screen, search button is turned on, and wifi is disconnected. It's not really that intuitive as Microsoft imagine it is.

#47 Edited by bemusedchunk (668 posts) -

LINUX MASTER RACE CHECKING IN

#48 Posted by SoldierG654342 (1735 posts) -

Windows just needs to make like Apple and have dedicated Desktop/Tablet OSs, because it seems like pretty much no one is happy right now trying to meet in the middle.

#49 Posted by ripelivejam (3543 posts) -
#50 Edited by Andorski (5191 posts) -

Cool concept that this guy came up with, but this is little more than a blogger putting out a wishlist until Microsoft gives any indication that they are willing to take this guy's ideas.