Would You Consider Persona to be a "AAA Series"?

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bboymaestro

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Poll Would You Consider Persona to be a "AAA Series"? (321 votes)

Yea 31%
Nay 68%

I was mulling over this with the roommate, who's currently wrapping up his first run of Persona 4. Given that Atlus is producing 5 new games under the Persona banner, last I checked, can we assume it's reached that stratosphere?

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beforet

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Not really. I kinda consider in that awkward middle bracket between AAA $400 trillion budget and the indie scene where stuff like Darksiders or Drakengard sits. Sure it's popular as hell in its niche, but there's a reason P5 is coming to last gen consoles.

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Corevi

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#2  Edited By Corevi

Maybe not technically but when Persona 5 comes out those sales figures will be equal to or better than any other AAA JRPG in the last few years.

@beforet: That reason is that it's been in full development since 2011. The budget difference is not that much between developing for PS3 and PS4 due to diminishing gains.

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bigjeffrey

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not even close

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ViciousBearMauling

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In a JRPG sense? Yeah.

On the same level at AC or CoD? nahhh

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TruthTellah

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#5  Edited By TruthTellah

AAA quality for a JRPG? Sure.

AAA as it's actually understood in the industry? Hell no.

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VanillaPlant

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Not in America, but it is a pretty big deal in Japan. It has multiple manga, anime, and a movie series. Plus the spin off games and merchandising which never makes it here.

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bboymaestro

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@vanillaplant: but to a degree, it's really catching on over here, and even in Europe, from what I can tell.

I'm curious how big Atlus is on a team size and budget standpoint mostly. Hell, all of those extras are available stateside. It seems to be operating in this weird in between zone so far, gotta wonder what kind of bank they could throw if they only made 3 games under this banner.

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deactivated-5e49e9175da37

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AAA as it's actually understood in the industry? Hell no.

Yup.

'AAA' as is commonly understood refers more to the size of investment and project scope, and the nature of the competition. It doesn't mean quality, or refer to the nature of the franchise.

Persona 4 is profitable, but it remains a niche.

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ajamafalous

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#9  Edited By ajamafalous

It still only sells, what, a tenth of games like CoD/AC/Battlefield/GTA/etc.?

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Dalai

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AAA games have significantly massive budgets, a very strong marketing campaign, and widespread appeal. Persona has none of those qualities, I believe.

But AAA doesn't equal quality and greatness so it's not really a big deal.

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kid_gloves

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#11  Edited By kid_gloves

I think in the current climate the only AAA JRPGs out there are Final Fantasy and probably Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter. Things like Persona (or SMT games in general) are part of that shrinking (in the west especially) AA area where they have good budgets and good sales but are clearly working within major limits of their time and money.

Now, I think this isn't so much that JRPG budgets have shrunk with the years more that AAA budgets left almost all them behind since the ps3/360 generation. AAA grew to mean larger productions and JRPGs mostly stayed inside the budget constraints of the PS2 era. Which is why a lot of them moved to DS/3DS/PSP/VITA where their budgets could generally match them up with the top of the line games.

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probablytuna

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It's a series developed for a niche audience, so no, I don't consider it AAA.

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Karkarov

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#13  Edited By Karkarov

No. Remember, Atlus's largest selling game of all time isn't even one they made. It was their US release of Demon's Souls. Which didn't even break a million sales, though it has snagged over 900k. In fact shocking as this sounds.... Persona almost sells as well in America as it does in Japan.

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slyspider

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Its not a american triple A but for the JRPG market it certainly is

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sub_o

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Budget? No. Quality? Yes.

The term AAA is so nebulous that, I just refer games as games. It's either a good game or a not so good game.

For example: FF13 might have AAA budget, but it's a not so good game. There are some good parts, but overall as JRPG it's not as interesting.

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golguin

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AAA is what I get for my car in case I need some roadside assistance.

Is Persona 4 a great game? Yes.

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benspyda

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As JRPG's go, the Final Fantasy games would be the AAA projects. So in terms of budget, nope. In terms of heart, absolutely.

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winsord

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#18  Edited By winsord

I love the Persona series, but absolutely not. Benspyda pretty much hit the nail on the head too, even if you look at just (J)RPGs, Persona would not be what I would think of when a AAA (J)RPG was mentioned.

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Aegon

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We don't get a mainline persona game once every two years, so no.

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ArbitraryWater

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Persona is a niche game that is successful in its niche. That's like the opposite of AAA.

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stonyman65

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From what I understand, "AAA" simply means a game that has a large team, a decent sized budget, and a large publisher behind it. I don't think the quality of the game has anything to do with it.
So, by those standards, yeah. I think Persona 5 could be considered a "AAA" game. Maybe not to the level of your huge Western-made games like Call of Duty or GTA for example, but it's big.

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StarvingGamer

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#22  Edited By StarvingGamer

No. AAA is a budgetary term. Persona 4 did not have a large enough budget.

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bboymaestro

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@karkarov said:

No. Remember, Atlus's largest selling game of all time isn't even one they made. It was their US release of Demon's Souls. Which didn't even break a million sales, though it has snagged over 900k. In fact shocking as this sounds.... Persona almost sells as well in America as it does in Japan.

Did not know that. Always figured Atlus USA is one of the hardest working studios on ports alone.

My biggest point is this: the announcements last November were big news, people stood in town squares for them in Japan, and crazy people like me signed up for NicoNico TV just to watch. It's a niche series, sure, but it's spread pretty wide; teaming up with Etrian Odyssey and ArcSys for two new titles are a good example. Goddamn theatrical releases for the Persona 3 movie! I've got to wonder how much is going into this...dare I call it "IP". Perhaps I'm just part of a ravenous fanbase for the first time in a while.

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egg

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#24  Edited By egg

Correct me if I'm wrong but Persona 1 and Persona 2 have randomly triggered encounters. So I don't think it can be considered a good series. At best, Persona 3 and 4 could be considered good games individually. (even though I'm on the fence on playing 3 and 4 to their association with 1 and 2. It would be sort of like buying cupcakes from Hitler even while it's completely ambiguous as to whether he's actually reformed or not--it's merely that at this particular moment he's holding a bake sale rather than oppressing Jews.)

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bboymaestro

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@egg: Funny you would mention Hitler and Persona 2 in the same sentence, also damn Godwin's law strikes again! 3 and 4 are both well separated from the originals in mechanics and story. The monsters are clearly labeled in the dungeon, so random encounters are no more. I would suggest playing them if and only if you're willing to go through 100+ hours each. But it's 100+ of my favorite story and dungeons to date, if that leads any weight. If you end up playing, by the way. you'd be the fourth person I've convinced to pick them up in some fashion, haha.

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Nomin

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atlus has plastered persona on so many games in all sorts of variations across genres that it diluted the cachet the name once held for me.

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kid_gloves

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@nomin said:

atlus has plastered persona on so many games in all sorts of variations across genres that it diluted the cachet the name once held for me.

1 generally well liked fighting game and 1 not out yet rhythm game is plastering across genres?

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egg

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#28  Edited By egg

@bboymaestro said:

@egg: Funny you would mention Hitler and Persona 2 in the same sentence, also damn Godwin's law strikes again! 3 and 4 are both well separated from the originals in mechanics and story. The monsters are clearly labeled in the dungeon, so random encounters are no more. I would suggest playing them if and only if you're willing to go through 100+ hours each. But it's 100+ of my favorite story and dungeons to date, if that leads any weight. If you end up playing, by the way. you'd be the fourth person I've convinced to pick them up in some fashion, haha.

3 and 4 have "visible enemies" from what I understand, but lately it occurred to me that visible enemies are mechanically not all that different from random encounters. Because 1) nowadays it's pretty much par for the course for a series that once had random encounters to have switched to visible enemies. 2) visible enemies have the potential to be anti-exploration and anti-immersion in much the same way random encounters were, and 3) it means that the game is part of the same series as games with random encounters but without ever having renounced them. The biggest giveaway is that even after switching to visible enemies, the previous installments are often re-released with this one aspect left unchanged. And often the re-releases are on the same system as the newest sequel, just to add insult to injury.

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kimvidard

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After playing Persona 4 on the Vita, I would put it in the same category as Dark Souls. Most people would say the latter is now a full AAA title, but it is still fairly niche. So I would put Persona in the AAA category, but really, it is probably not in that range (it comes out on last gen systems every time, it is a cult classic, without being a big hit...).

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MEATBALL

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They're games that are typically made for last gen systems, that's not exactly "AAA". But also, who cares?

Persona 3 & 4 are amazing games. Persona Q looks fantastic. Persona 5, I'm sure, will be awesome. None of them are particularly "AAA", but that doesn't really mean anything.

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Karkarov

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@egg: 3/4 have almost nothing to do with 1/2. Take this from someone who has played (and enjoyed) all of them. In 3 there are some call backs and weird suggest cameo's to 2 but none of the characters ever show up and the plot is never directly discussed. In 4 1/2 may as well have not even happened, they don't even get mentioned as silly cameo's. All that said your argument that random encounters and visible enemies are the same is well, BS. Random encounters can't be avoided. Visible enemies can. That's a pretty earth shattering difference. You can clear entire floors of a dungeon in 3/4 and never actually fight anything. It is hard sometimes but it can be done.

That said 3/4 are both great RPG's. They released on previous gen consoles when they came out but they are some of the best RPG's those consoles ever got. So this is how I look at it. Final Fantasy is now a triple A franchise to be sure (whatever that really means) but I would rather play Persona 3 for the 4th time or Persona 4 for the third than play FF13 once.

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fattony12000

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"2. Budget: The development cost was set at about the same level as that of Persona 3. To satisfy the consumers, we spent the majority of our resources on increasing the volume of features that the players liked, improving the game systems, and working on the story and characters (the two key components of an RPG). In the end, we were able to keep the number of omitted features to a minimum, while incorporating many changes and additions to reflect the opinions gathered toward the end of development."

Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/116413/Exclusive_Behind_The_Scenes_Of_Atlus_Persona_4.php

I do not know what the budget for Persona 3 was.

"In the video game industry, AAA (pronounced "triple A") is a classification term used for games with the highest development budgets and levels of promotion. A title considered to be AAA is therefore expected to be a high quality game and to be among the year's bestsellers."

"AAA is not an acronym, but a grading scale, but some like to see it as an acronym to more simply show what attributes a game uses. One common way of perceived AAA as an acronym is like so, each "A" has a meaning regarding an overall quality. One "A" is given to games that are considered to be successful (critics or reviewers give it a perfect, or almost perfect score), another "A" is used when a game brings "innovative Gameplay" (a gaming characteristic so unique that differentiate the game from all the rest), and finally, the last "A" defines "Financial Success" (game sales that generate a huge profit). A title consider to be AAA is therefore a high quality game and its expected to be among the year’s bestsellers."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_(game_industry)

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TheManWithNoPlan

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I'd consider it to be AAA in it's respective niche genre. It has seemed to have broken out of that niche landscape, become incredibly successful critically and finacnially and appeal to gamers who don't usually pay attention to the genre. So, in that sense I guess it could be considered AAA.

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bboymaestro

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@fattony12000: those are the kinda articles I've been looking for! Good looking out man. I wish it were a little more transparent, but this is the most I've seen into Atlus's development methods.

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EquitasInvictus

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'AAA' in our hearts!

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senrat

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#36  Edited By senrat

No, not at all. I like the games but it was certainly made on a tight budget. The games are graphically simple and repetitive in many regards.

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nightriff

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In my mind yes, but the answer is no. Atlus has gotten their development down to where they don't need to sell gangbusters just to break even. Based on the budget alone (which I'm assuming is very low compared to AAA titles) the answer is no.

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egg

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@karkarov said:

@egg: 3/4 have almost nothing to do with 1/2. Take this from someone who has played (and enjoyed) all of them. In 3 there are some call backs and weird suggest cameo's to 2 but none of the characters ever show up and the plot is never directly discussed. In 4 1/2 may as well have not even happened, they don't even get mentioned as silly cameo's. All that said your argument that random encounters and visible enemies are the same is well, BS. Random encounters can't be avoided. Visible enemies can. That's a pretty earth shattering difference. You can clear entire floors of a dungeon in 3/4 and never actually fight anything. It is hard sometimes but it can be done.

That said 3/4 are both great RPG's. They released on previous gen consoles when they came out but they are some of the best RPG's those consoles ever got. So this is how I look at it. Final Fantasy is now a triple A franchise to be sure (whatever that really means) but I would rather play Persona 3 for the 4th time or Persona 4 for the third than play FF13 once.

I'm not talking about story. Things like genre, game structure, mechanics, art style, and themes are more important. (case in point, Final Fantasy games have no story relation to each other yet they are still part of the same series and many of them are highly similar games.) Even having played none of the Persona games I can safely say they are related enough to be in the same series. But even if that were not the case then the fact stands they all have the word Persona in the title.

You seem to misunderstand, I already was willing to treat Persona 3/4 as standalone titles, and since they don't have random encounters then technically there should be no problem in me playing them, but later I woke up to reality and realized they are part of the same series (subseries no less) as games with random encounters, and to make matters worse those games are on the same system. When there is a "Persona sale" on PSN both random encounter games and non random encounter games are included in the sale. Players are invited to "see where it all began". So what use it there to argue that Persona 3/4 are totally separate from 1/2? If that were true then why are they part of the same series? Why wasn't Persona 3 called Persona: Postmortem or something (for example) and Persona 4 be called Persona: Postmortem 2? That may be technically part of the same series still but at least its an effort!

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Karkarov

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#39  Edited By Karkarov

@egg said:

I'm not talking about story. Things like genre, game structure, mechanics, art style, and themes are more important. (case in point, Final Fantasy games have no story relation to each other yet they are still part of the same series and many of them are highly similar games.) Even having played none of the Persona games I can safely say they are related enough to be in the same series. But even if that were not the case then the fact stands they all have the word Persona in the title.

You seem to misunderstand, I already was willing to treat Persona 3/4 as standalone titles, and since they don't have random encounters then technically there should be no problem in me playing them, but later I woke up to reality and realized they are part of the same series (subseries no less) as games with random encounters, and to make matters worse those games are on the same system. When there is a "Persona sale" on PSN both random encounter games and non random encounter games are included in the sale. Players are invited to "see where it all began". So what use it there to argue that Persona 3/4 are totally separate from 1/2? If that were true then why are they part of the same series? Why wasn't Persona 3 called Persona: Postmortem or something (for example) and Persona 4 be called Persona: Postmortem 2? That may be technically part of the same series still but at least its an effort!

Uh actually they are wildly different in music, presentation, and mechanics. In fact other than the name "Persona" and a similarity in story (all four at least initially center around high schoolers, their persona, and some whacked out occult stuff) 1 and 2 have basically nothing in common with 3 and 4. I could talk all day about the differences if you like but trust me when I say there is a reason 3/4 are by far the most popular two in the series. They are far easier to pick up and play, no where near as ball bustingly hard, less grindy, have a better art style, better combat, some might say better characters, and tons less grim dark everything sucks.

Just watch some of the Persona 4 endurance run. If you don't like what you see don't play it. But don't refuse to play on some misguided concept that it has lots in common with Person 1/2 because they are wildly different games.

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afabs515

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While it is without a doubt my favorite series of JRPG's and I love it to death, it still isn't mainstream or large enough to be considered AAA.

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robsamuel

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My understanding is that AAA is used in studios to refer to how important the project is to the company. After a while it got appropriated into meaning a big budget, big team game.

So yes on one count and no on the other, \ guess.

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bboymaestro

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@karkarov: I have to admit 3 and 4 are the series darlings, but 2 has one of my favorite ensemble casts. Really varied back stories and interactions for the time.

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#44  Edited By egg

@karkarov said:

@egg said:

I'm not talking about story. Things like genre, game structure, mechanics, art style, and themes are more important. (case in point, Final Fantasy games have no story relation to each other yet they are still part of the same series and many of them are highly similar games.) Even having played none of the Persona games I can safely say they are related enough to be in the same series. But even if that were not the case then the fact stands they all have the word Persona in the title.

You seem to misunderstand, I already was willing to treat Persona 3/4 as standalone titles, and since they don't have random encounters then technically there should be no problem in me playing them, but later I woke up to reality and realized they are part of the same series (subseries no less) as games with random encounters, and to make matters worse those games are on the same system. When there is a "Persona sale" on PSN both random encounter games and non random encounter games are included in the sale. Players are invited to "see where it all began". So what use it there to argue that Persona 3/4 are totally separate from 1/2? If that were true then why are they part of the same series? Why wasn't Persona 3 called Persona: Postmortem or something (for example) and Persona 4 be called Persona: Postmortem 2? That may be technically part of the same series still but at least its an effort!

Uh actually they are wildly different in music, presentation, and mechanics. In fact other than the name "Persona" and a similarity in story (all four at least initially center around high schoolers, their persona, and some whacked out occult stuff) 1 and 2 have basically nothing in common with 3 and 4. I could talk all day about the differences if you like but trust me when I say there is a reason 3/4 are by far the most popular two in the series. They are far easier to pick up and play, no where near as ball bustingly hard, less grindy, have a better art style, better combat, some might say better characters, and tons less grim dark everything sucks.

Just watch some of the Persona 4 endurance run. If you don't like what you see don't play it. But don't refuse to play on some misguided concept that it has lots in common with Person 1/2 because they are wildly different games.

You might be missing the point. You could argue all day that Persona 3/4 are different from Persona 1/2 (and I was aware of some of the differences to begin with) but by putting games *without* random encounters in the same series as games *with* random encounters, Atlus is basically saying that I am not entitled to a game that is unplayable. (When buying a game, we are frankly not entitled to much, but that is the sole exception) Furthermore, by re-releasing Persona 1/2 and even putting them on the same platform as Persona 3/4 (PSP and, due to BC and PS1 classics, Vita) then not only Atlus is being unapologetic about random encounters, they are also essentially using Persona 3/4 to peddle and promote random encounters.

Persona 3 and Persona 4 each don't exist in a vacuum, as unfortunate as that may be. They exist in a pool of games, both by the fact that they are part of the same series as other games, and the fact they are part of the same genre and appeal to the same demographic as other games. Therefore, until randomly triggered encounters are permanently extinguished, I have no business purchasing any title in the Persona series. If I have to research a game just to make sure it doesn't have random encounters (which shouldn't exist in the first place, not anymore, not in the last decade, and not in the past two decades) then I probably shouldn't get the game in the first place, even if it turns out the game doesn't have random encounters. Why? Because the fact stands that I had to check--Provided of course I was not wrong in presuming to check, and in the case of Persona (or any series that contains random encounters in some of the installments AND those particular installments being re-released even after the installments without random encounters were released) someone would have been absolutely not wrong to check.

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Karkarov

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#45  Edited By Karkarov

@egg said:

You might be missing the point. You could argue all day that Persona 3/4 are different from Persona 1/2 (and I was aware of some of the differences to begin with) but by putting games *without* random encounters in the same series as games *with* random encounters, Atlus is basically saying that I am not entitled to a game that is unplayable. (When buying a game, we are frankly not entitled to much, but that is the sole exception) Furthermore, by re-releasing Persona 1/2 and even putting them on the same platform as Persona 3/4 (PSP and, due to BC and PS1 classics, Vita) then not only Atlus is being unapologetic about random encounters, they are also essentially using Persona 3/4 to peddle and promote random encounters.

Well there is nothing I can say if your only excuse for not trying Person 3 and 4 is "Persona 1 and 2 had random encounters". I mean that is honestly one of the stupidest excuses I have ever heard of for not playing a game and is pretty laughable and idiotic on all levels, but whatever floats your boat I guess. Trust me when I say it is your loss.

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Triple A is an actual thing, not a hypothetical or industry term. Like a letter on the Bombcast said a while back, AAA is a mix of development team size and budget.

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Seppli

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*Niche Gold* is what it is.

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Spoonman671

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#48  Edited By Spoonman671

It only comes out on obsolete hardware. So, no.

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ch3burashka

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It only comes out on obsolete hardware. So, no.

Really sick of this bullshit. Just because you're a rich fuck who can afford to drop 500+ day one, then proceed to complain that your needs aren't met because you're a consumer and the consumer is always right, doesn't make the prior generation and the countless millions still using them "obsolete". If only people devoted this much emotional energy to shit that matters.

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Freshbandito

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AAA is a set definition in the industry and Persona doesn't fit the definition.

On Giant Bomb it's easy to think Persona is making big head way in the west because of the legacy the endurance run has left in the community but in reality it's still a niche jrpg that an overwhelming majority of 'gamers' have probably never even heard of let alone be interested in.

A further test would be to list games that are definitive AAA titles: Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Halo. Ask the average person on the street if they've heard of them and you're going to get a lot of people who've heard the name. Ask those same people if they've ever heard of Shin Megami Tensei's Persona and they'll probably just think you're part of a cult.