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Posted by audioBusting (1481 posts) 3 months, 1 day ago

Poll: Are pizzas pies? (397 votes)

True 34%
False 48%
Tralse (on the fence / others) 18%

Recently, while looking at pizza recipes, I've seen some people calling pizza as pies. The connection made between my brain synapses almost blew my mind. Of course, why couldn't I see this before? Is this something I missed as an non-native English speaker? I went on a Google expedition to find a more reliable source on the matter, but I didn't find much concrete information. Some say that the term "pie" is only the quantification of pizzas, but pizzas themselves are not pies. Others say that it depends on the type, with deep-dish definitely being pies. I started doubting myself. What is a pizza? What is a pie?

This is not a bit. I am honestly not even sure what a pie is. I used to think that they have to be covered by crust, but that's obviously not true when I think about it more. Shepherds' pies don't even include pastry! There are also open pies with bread crusts. Are those pizzas?

So, I turn to the Giant Bomb Forums for guidance, since you guys have proven themselves as arbiters of food classification. I see that the term "pizza pies" is already used on the wiki page for pizza itself. Can someone please clear this up for me?

#1 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10566 posts) -

The idea that you have never heard the term "pizza pie" before seems crazy to me. Unless you're not from a native English speaking country?

Moderator
#2 Posted by audioBusting (1481 posts) -

@mooseymcman: Nope, that's why it's very confusing to me at the moment. Years of eating pizzas without ever hearing "pizza" and "pie" in the same sentence.

#3 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10566 posts) -
Moderator
#4 Posted by SecularBaron (179 posts) -

I've struggled with this question all my life. Yes, I guess they are. But if someone tells me "Hey lets get a pie." My first thought is pumpkin or apple, I never assume what they're talking about is pizza.

#5 Posted by Hero_Swe (1116 posts) -

I've never heard of Pizza's being referred to as pie's here in sweden, and I myself don't agree with that likeness. There's a very specific difference between a pie and a pizza.

#6 Posted by mosespippy (4051 posts) -

I thought Pizza was Italian for Pie. Not sure though. What I am sure of is that pizzas are pies.

#7 Posted by audioBusting (1481 posts) -

@mooseymcman: That was the song used (with different lyrics) in McDonald's TV ads here, when I started hearing people call pizzas as pies! What a strange coincidence!

#8 Posted by Video_Game_King (36110 posts) -

Isn't that a regional thing?

#9 Edited by Immortal_Guy (108 posts) -

I'm from the UK, and I've only ever heard pizzas called pies by Americans - no-one does that here.Pizzas have bases and toppings, pies are closed and have pastry (unless we're talking fish pie or shepard's pie, of course). To be honest, a shepard's pie probably has as little to do with a "normal" pie as a pizza pie does. Names are stupid...

#10 Posted by Jesus_Phish (628 posts) -

The only time I've ever heard them called pies is in the song "That's amore" and even then I think that dude just made it up to make something rhyme with eye.

#11 Posted by Danteveli (1165 posts) -

Pizza Pie

and with the stuff they do with them in Asia yeah its a pie

Online
#12 Posted by Gatehouse (582 posts) -

I'm from the UK, and I've only ever heard pizzas called pies by Americans - no-one does that here.Pizzas have bases and toppings, pies are closed and have pastry (unless we're talking fish pie or shepard's pie, of course). To be honest, a shepard's pie probably has as little to do with a "normal" pie as a pizza pie does. Names are stupid...

But Shepard's, Cottage and Fish Pie all at the least have a covering of mashed potato, whereas pizza has none at all. I've never head the term over here in the UK as you say, we're far more likely to call it pretentious like a 'Stonebaked ciabatta mozzeralla' (which, btw, me and a buddy totally found a frozen one called this, it's now a running joke between us) or something else of that variety.

#13 Posted by crithon (3081 posts) -

even thin crust pizza are considered Pie

#14 Edited by MattyFTM (14352 posts) -

Someone should make a pizza pie. That would be delicious. A pizza enclosed in pastry. Because it's in pastry you could have like tons of toppings on the pizza. Far more than you'd normally have.

Quick, someone teach me how to make pastry. I have to make this a reality.

Moderator
#15 Posted by MB (12078 posts) -

It's a regional thing. I almost never hear the term pie used in reference to pizza in California unless it's being said by someone from the East Coast.

Moderator
#16 Posted by Jesus_Phish (628 posts) -

@mattyftm: You can just buy premade pie crusts, fill it with pizza goodness.

#17 Edited by Ares42 (2591 posts) -

Pizza is "bread" with toppings. It's made with a yeast dough. Traditional pie is filling enveloped by shortcrust pastry (or in some cases just mashed potatoes). If anything you could compare Chicago style pizza to pies, but they still use yeast dough which is very different. A pie crust is supposed to be lighty and flaky(which both shortcrust pastry and mashed potatoes are), while a pizza crust is supposed to be more robust and have some "chew" to it.

@mattyftm: It's pretty easy, it's just flour, fat(butter or shortening) and a little bit of water. Good luck picking up a slice of a pizza made with pie crust though =) Might as well just make a meat pie.

#18 Posted by Brendan (7696 posts) -

Technically yes, although I don't call pizzas pies.

#19 Posted by Clonedzero (4096 posts) -

Technically yes. But i'll still call you an asshole if you call a pizza a pie.

It's like calling a burger a sandwich. Technically i guess it's a sandwich, but don't call it one.

#20 Edited by Nightriff (4930 posts) -

Yes but I don't call it that, pizzas are just pizzas

#21 Posted by Robsamuel (62 posts) -

While pies are often completely encased in pastry, often it's just a pastry lid. Also, considering the potato covered Shepherd's Pie ( and similar others) are also considered pies, this means that a pie must have a substantial lid / topping of some sort.

Therefore, pizzas are upside down pies.

#22 Posted by Counterclockwork87 (616 posts) -

I live in New York, and everyone calls them pies. That said, they aren't actually, "pies" that's just what they're called. Kinda like a Koala Bear isn't actually a bear, it's just a name.

When you go to a pizzeria in New York you say, "Can I get a regular pie, another pie, half-pepperoni, and a calzone."

Pie is probably used more often than pizza I'd say. Most people here actually don't say, "Can I get a large cheese pizza" like in the ninja turtles movies.

My source? I worked in a pizzeria for 7 years.

#23 Edited by OldGuy (1517 posts) -

For those of you squawking about "pies must have lids" I present to you the Pecan Pie:

#24 Edited by GaspoweR (2835 posts) -
#25 Edited by ViciousAnchovy (727 posts) -

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pie?s=t

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pizza?s=t

#26 Posted by GiantLizardKing (315 posts) -

Mostly false? What is wrong with you savages. Just because it doesn't have fruit filling doesn't mean it's not a pie.

I'm not sure all pizzas are pies though. Chicago style is maybe more like a cake? I'd take a pizza cobbler as well.

#27 Posted by SteadyingMeat (1122 posts) -

No.

#28 Edited by divergence (281 posts) -

I could see deep dish pizza's being "pies" but the classic pizza is more like an open face sandwich to me.

#29 Edited by Jesus_Phish (628 posts) -
#30 Edited by Veektarius (4646 posts) -

@counterclockwork87 said:

I live in New York, and everyone calls them pies. That said, they aren't actually, "pies" that's just what they're called. Kinda like a Koala Bear isn't actually a bear, it's just a name.

When you go to a pizzeria in New York you say, "Can I get a regular pie, another pie, half-pepperoni, and a calzone."

Pie is probably used more often than pizza I'd say. Most people here actually don't say, "Can I get a large cheese pizza" like in the ninja turtles movies.

My source? I worked in a pizzeria for 7 years.

This is true. When I moved to the NYC area I had to adapt to new pizza parlance. I think my understanding of the distinction is this: in New Yorkese, there is no such thing as 'a pizza'. Pizza is non-quantified noun, like water. A pie is the shape the pizza comes in. A pizza pie is basically a 'pie of pizza', sort of like you'd ask for a 'bottle of water'. So if you order a pizza, a lot of parlors will clarify that you want a whole pie. Additionally, in New York, there is no such thing as a 'piece of pizza', there are only slices. I had a colleague (also new to the area) order a 'piece of cheese' at a pizza place and they gave her a Kraft single.

EDIT: I should also clarify that her order was wrong in two ways, because there is also no such thing as cheese pizza in New York. It is known as 'Regular' or 'Plain'. So the correct order would be "Give me a regular slice"

#31 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10566 posts) -

Pizza is totally a pie, how is it losing the poll?

Moderator
#32 Posted by bemusedchunk (677 posts) -

Pretty sure it's just nomenclature.

Just like how here in New England we have grinders (or subs), but in Pittsburgh they are known as hoagies.

And in Westchester County, NY they are called wedges.

You guys probably know them as SANDWICHES.

Online
#33 Posted by wsninja (66 posts) -

If someone said "Hey lets go out for a pie" I'd say "Ok lets get apple pie." Not "Ok I'm up for a 'roni 'za!"

#34 Edited by Sergio (2055 posts) -

Only if you say it in a bad Italian accent.

#35 Posted by believer258 (11683 posts) -

@counterclockwork87 said:

I live in New York, and everyone calls them pies. That said, they aren't actually, "pies" that's just what they're called. Kinda like a Koala Bear isn't actually a bear, it's just a name.

When you go to a pizzeria in New York you say, "Can I get a regular pie, another pie, half-pepperoni, and a calzone."

Pie is probably used more often than pizza I'd say. Most people here actually don't say, "Can I get a large cheese pizza" like in the ninja turtles movies.

My source? I worked in a pizzeria for 7 years.

This is true. When I moved to the NYC area I had to adapt to new pizza parlance. I think my understanding of the distinction is this: in New Yorkese, there is no such thing as 'a pizza'. Pizza is non-quantified noun, like water. A pie is the shape the pizza comes in. A pizza pie is basically a 'pie of pizza', sort of like you'd ask for a 'bottle of water'. So if you order a pizza, a lot of parlors will clarify that you want a whole pie. Additionally, in New York, there is no such thing as a 'piece of pizza', there are only slices. I had a colleague (also new to the area) order a 'piece of cheese' at a pizza place and they gave her a Kraft single.

Perhaps I'm just too bored, but I found this pretty funny.

I'm OK with pizzas technically being pies, I'm just not OK with calling a pizza a pie on a regular basis.

#36 Edited by AlexW00d (6198 posts) -

How is this even a question? A pie is made from pastry*. A pizza is made with 'bread'. Even a simpleton knows this.

(Sheperd'ss pie etc aren't truly pies either)

#37 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (2593 posts) -

Pies by definition have a flaky buttery/lard/suet pastry dough crusts. Pizza is closer to a bread dough which is water, flour, yeast, salt...ex: Neapolitan pizza is made from a lean dough—no oil, no sugar, nothing else. NYC pizza is Neapolitan with some olive oil and a tiny amount of sugar to give the yeast more to eat...thus puffer and more bread like in texture. Sicilian-Style Dough more oil, a bit thinner/wetter, and often cooked in a pan drenched in more olive oil so the bottom is practically fried.

Pie and pizza have very little in common...just weird use of common English.

#38 Posted by Tom_omb (351 posts) -

Pizzas are not pies. But the term "Pizza Pie" is acceptable because it's delightful and charming. And because Dean Martin.

#39 Edited by oldenglishC (922 posts) -

I think the bigger question is why is cheese cake, which is clearly built on top of a crust, not referred to as cheese pie?

#40 Edited by ChrisHarris (275 posts) -

The main characteristic of a pie is that the base is raised at the edges to contain the filling(s). If it doesn't have a wall, it is not a pie. I don't care if all of the other conditions are met. A deep dish pizza could be considered a pie, but not a thin crust pizza. A pie has fillings; a thin crust pizza has toppings.

#41 Edited by pinner458 (616 posts) -

I feel like I either heard this being discussed on the Bombcast before or at least I feel like they definitely have talked about this in a podcast I may not have heard yet...

#42 Posted by Reisz (1461 posts) -

I voted Tralse, obviously but the real answer is No.

#43 Posted by KoolAid (855 posts) -

I demand pizza justice for pizza pies!

#44 Posted by Ghost_Cat (1396 posts) -

There is a place in Dallas called Fireside Pies, and it's just an upscale pizza restaurant where older folks, trying to cling onto lost coolness, go to eat. Hope that helps.

#45 Posted by TruthTellah (8578 posts) -

Some pizzas are pies. Not all.

#46 Posted by Robsamuel (62 posts) -

@oldguy said:

For those of you squawking about "pies must have lids" I present to you the Pecan Pie:

Squawk. That's a flan.

Just kidding, open top pies are a real thing.

#47 Posted by Ben_H (3319 posts) -
@oldguy said:

For those of you squawking about "pies must have lids" I present to you the Pecan Pie:

Indeed. Likewise for Pumpkin pie. Seldom do pumpkin pies have lids.

#48 Posted by Slag (4085 posts) -

I hear old dudes order "two pies with pepperoni and sausage" occasionally.

#49 Posted by Sackmanjones (4652 posts) -

I think pizza requires having some sort of underlying sauce. Whether that be tomato sauce or chocolate for a desert pizza or something, it's something that is spread on the base with possibly other ingredients on top. Pies have more of a solid or mushing filling (pumpkin pie and pecan for example).

Therefore, I dictate pizzas are in fact NOT pies. Pizzas are pizzas and pies are pies.

#50 Edited by GiantLizardKing (315 posts) -

@jesus_phish: Excellent. You have a pizza cobbler? Love pizza. Love cobblers.