How different is this to Persona? Just from the box it looks like a rather darker tone at least.
SMT is there to make you hate yourself, Persona is there to reaffirm yourself.
Actually, it's more than just a darker tone. Imagine if instead of set allies you created a party out of your personas, then you get an idea. SMT is generally about stripping the humanity out of its cast. No rainbow pop here. Though IV will without a doubt be the friendliest to newcomers yet.
How different is this to Persona? Just from the box it looks like a rather darker tone at least.
SMT is there to make you hate yourself, Persona is there to reaffirm yourself.
Actually, it's more than just a darker tone. Imagine if instead of set allies you created a party out of your personas, then you get an idea. SMT is generally about stripping the humanity out of its cast. No rainbow pop here. Though IV will without a doubt be the friendliest to newcomers yet.
Aside from everything you've said, it's also worth mentioning that it is way more dungeon-crawlery in most cases, and SMT games have significantly less animation of your character and your demons/personas, and tend to go for a Dragon Quest/Earthbound presentation style where you're in "first person" so that the only thing on screen is the enemies you're fighting.
@bisonhero: Well, the battle perspective seems to be a result of technical limitations. Nocturne had everything in full 3D, but it also had a relatively tiny demon roster as a result. IV's 400+ would have never seen the light of day without them going for 2D, first-person battles. There should be constant variety in the battles.
Besides, IV will have full 3D dungeon exploration, and yes, you're right, the meat of the game is exploration in a hostile environment, less visual novel (though from previews it looks like IV will have more exposition than previous games).
@eirikr: Yeah, and aside from Nocturne, Persona 4 manages to have fully animated player-controlled characters, but only by A) making only a couple dozen enemy types that get reskinned with different colours as the game goes on, and B) while there are a bunch of Personae, each Persona has like a single animation for when it is summoned that is used regardless of what spell the Persona uses. I'm not bashing them, I'm just pointing out that Atlus doesn't have infinite resources, so I understand that even SMT: Nocturne and P4 were only able to have fully animated battles by creatively cutting some corners in how much unique stuff they have to animate.
So yeah, what I meant to get across to @rokkaku is that the battle system of SMT games has similarities to Persona, but in most cases the presentation isn't quite as flashy as Persona 4. And like Eirikr says, the meat of the game is dungeon exploration, and most mainline SMT games don't have the same quantity of non-dungeon things to do, so if going to school and social linking and walking around Inaba are some of your favourite parts of Persona, know that those elements are scarcer in SMT, though SMT IV does look like it has more exposition than the series usually does.
@eirikr: Yeah, and aside from Nocturne, Persona 4 manages to have fully animated player-controlled characters, but only by A) making only a couple dozen enemy types that get reskinned with different colours as the game goes on, and B) while there are a bunch of Personae, each Persona has like a single animation for when it is summoned that is used regardless of what spell the Persona uses. I'm not bashing them, I'm just pointing out that Atlus doesn't have infinite resources, so I understand that even SMT: Nocturne and P4 were only able to have fully animated battles by creatively cutting some corners in how much unique stuff they have to animate.
So yeah, what I meant to get across to @rokkaku is that the battle system of SMT games has similarities to Persona, but in most cases the presentation isn't quite as flashy as Persona 4. And like Eirikr says, the meat of the game is dungeon exploration, and most mainline SMT games don't have the same quantity of non-dungeon things to do, so if going to school and social linking and walking around Inaba are some of your favourite parts of Persona, know that those elements are scarcer in SMT, though SMT IV does look like it has more exposition than the series usually does.
Ah okay, well thanks for the heads-up, I'm much more of a Persona high-school shenanigans fan than a video-game masochist, so I'll probably steer clear.
Haven't you imported a US 3ds yet anyway? I can't think of a single reason to own an EU 3ds.
No, I was not smart enough to think to do that. I could think of one possible reason: You'd have to import EVERY game you want if it's not on eShop, even the ones that do come out in Europe in a timely manner. Regardless, I'm importing every console going forward, just to be safe. Seems like a worthwhile investment since most of the games I like to play are, for my sins, Atlus games or games that take forever to come over here.
Bringing it back to the actual game, I'm not as bothered about only being able to play it in two years or more than if it were a Persona game.
The linked preorder page from the official English website lists the game being in stock on July 16. Hasn't been officially confirmed yet, but seems plausible enough.
Will be getting this. Man, Devil Survivor 2: Break Record, Etrian Odyssey IV, Shin Megami Tensei IV, Soul Hackers... the 3DS is a hell of a platform.
Don't forget Project X Zone, Rune Factory 4, and the DQ7 remake. 3DS is killing it for RPGs this year.
Yeah, it's just that all of the titles I mentioned are developed by Atlus, so it's even more remarkable in that sense. But yes, there are so many other awesome games for it.
Yes! Really happy it's coming out soon. I've been casually working my way through EO4 and I'm ready for Soul Hackers but man... Nocturne's one of my favorite PS2 games so I'm stoked to play this.
Nocturne took place between 1 and 2, right? Therefore, what is SMT 3? Persona, Devil Summoner, Devil Survivor, and Digital Devil Saga are completely separate things.
Why are Japanese games so confusing on this shit? Someone help me!
Nocturne took place between 1 and 2, right? Therefore, what is SMT 3? Persona, Devil Summoner, Devil Survivor, and Digital Devil Saga are completely separate things.
Why are Japanese games so confusing on this shit? Someone help me!
Nocturne, which is SMT3, takes place after SMT2, as one of the characters in Nocturne is the reincarnation of the protagonist of SMT2.
I don't know where you got the idea that Nocturne somehow takes place between the first two games.
@hailinel: Nocturne takes place in a different timeline (as seen by the whole amala universe thingy), not after SMT2. and SMTIV takes place in yet another different timeline if I had to guess.
@hailinel: Nocturne takes place in a different timeline (as seen by the whole amala universe thingy), not after SMT2. and SMTIV takes place in yet another different timeline if I had to guess.
Nocturne took place between 1 and 2, right? Therefore, what is SMT 3? Persona, Devil Summoner, Devil Survivor, and Digital Devil Saga are completely separate things.
Why are Japanese games so confusing on this shit? Someone help me!
Nah, Nocturne is SMT3 in the main series. It goes 1, 2, 3 (Nocturne), Strange Journey, and then 4. Nocturne can't take place between 1 and 2 as it's in its own universe.
The thing with Nocturne is that it introduces the concept of an overall Megaten multiverse. So it's assumed the other games take place in their own universes but are connected by the multiverse (hence the references you see between each game). Little confusing but kind of cool.
@hailinel: Nocturne takes place in a different timeline (as seen by the whole amala universe thingy), not after SMT2. and SMTIV takes place in yet another different timeline if I had to guess.
Did you not read the spoiler I wrote?
Why can't that reincarnation be from a different universe? I don't know the story details as I'm only 25 hours into Nocturne, so think of that as a rhetorical question unless there's an explicit reason for its answer to be "no".
@hailinel: Nocturne takes place in a different timeline (as seen by the whole amala universe thingy), not after SMT2. and SMTIV takes place in yet another different timeline if I had to guess.
Did you not read the spoiler I wrote?
yeah? just because he's in SMT3 doesn't mean it comes later in the grand SMT timeline. YHVH sentenced him to be reincarnated forever and ever and technically that would mean from the beginning of time as well, so that could mean nocturne takes place whenever.
I mean there's evidence of strange journey being tied into SMT IV in some way, but that doesn't mean that SJ officially takes place before it or anything.
@hailinel: Nocturne takes place in a different timeline (as seen by the whole amala universe thingy), not after SMT2. and SMTIV takes place in yet another different timeline if I had to guess.
Did you not read the spoiler I wrote?
yeah? just because he's in SMT3 doesn't mean it comes later in the grand SMT timeline. YHVH sentenced him to be reincarnated forever and ever and technically that would mean from the beginning of time as well, so that could mean nocturne takes place whenever.
I mean there's evidence of strange journey being tied into SMT IV in some way, but that doesn't mean that SJ officially takes place before it or anything.
His being reincarnated would necessitate Nocturne being set after SMT2 regardless of what universal or temporal logic you want to throw in. At no point did I even suggest that the two games are part of the same timeline. Only that one event precedes another and therefore if anything Nocturne comes after SMT2.
Strange Journey was officially declared a spin-off and isn't necessarily related to any of the games unless Atlus later makes it such.
@hailinel: I'm just saying before and after don't really bear discussion when we're talking about alternate universes. H being A is nothing but a reference that really doesn't impact the story in any way but to say that YHVH is a giant asshole (but the player already knew that).
Also, Demonica's being in scans of IV makes it pretty clear they'll be connected in some way.
@hailinel: I'm just saying before and after don't really bear discussion when we're talking about alternate universes. H being A is nothing but a reference that really doesn't impact the story in any way but to say that YHVH is a giant asshole (but the player already knew that).
Also, Demonica's being in scans of IV makes it pretty clear they'll be connected in some way.
Or they're just reusing the Demonica suit design again like it's a chocobo. :P
I've been wanting to get into the SMT series ever since I finished P4G, but it's a pretty dense series without a good obvious place to jump in. The only thing I know is that the games are supposedly really hard (a friend of mine swore on his life that Nocturne was unbeatable) and that there are a lot of them.
Do you guys think this would be as good as any place to start, or do I have to play 1-3 to know what's going on?
@hailinel: Apparently that whole Hijiri/Aleph thing was made up. Still, it's gone on for so long that I don't know what to believe, but it probably shouldn't inform what is "canon" in a "timeline."
Basically, don't get hung up on the idea of a timeline in SMT. There are some games with obvious connections to one another, but Nocturne came in and was basically like "this shit doesn't matter." The games' stories are stronger when they don't have to have to be weighed down by narrative baggage from other titles where the world is constantly destroyed.
@hailinel: Apparently that whole Hijiri/Aleph thing was made up. Still, it's gone on for so long that I don't know what to believe, but it probably shouldn't inform what is "canon" in a "timeline."
Basically, don't get hung up on the idea of a timeline in SMT. There are some games with obvious connections to one another, but Nocturne came in and was basically like "this shit doesn't matter." The games' stories are stronger when they don't have to have to be weighed down by narrative baggage from other titles where the world is constantly destroyed.
Huh. Well, that's disappointing, though I suppose not surprising. But I wasn't really too hung up on the idea of a timeline beyond some games maybe following others, but you're right in that in the end, it doesn't matter.
@hailinel: Yeah, it worked just because of how plausible it seemed based on the narrative, and how there is a passing resemblance between the two.
Oh, and the timeline comment was directed generally. However, based on what's been presented so far, I'd wager that IV is setting itself up to be connected somewhere, and not just to Strange Journey. People have said that the "Year 1492" may not refer to AD, but perhaps "After Tokyo 199X." Interesting theory, but I'm hoping it's something more original.
I've been wanting to get into the SMT series ever since I finished P4G, but it's a pretty dense series without a good obvious place to jump in. The only thing I know is that the games are supposedly really hard (a friend of mine swore on his life that Nocturne was unbeatable) and that there are a lot of them.
Do you guys think this would be as good as any place to start, or do I have to play 1-3 to know what's going on?
You should be fine starting here. Even the spin offs (with the exception of Digital Devil Saga 2) are good about letting you just jump into a later numbered entry without having played the others.
Also Nocturne's rough but not impossible. It just really punishes the player for not covering your own weaknesses and not utilizing buffs/debuffs. Since you have P4G under your belt and have already been introduced to the basics, I'm sure you'd do alright (assuming you didn't play on easy). If you're interested most of the PS2 SMT games got a reprint. You can probably find copies of Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga 1&2 for $20 online. Nocturne uses a similar battle system to this game (press turn) so it might give you a good idea of what to expect. Digital Devil Saga uses the same battle system but it's a spin off and shifts the focus from demon collecting to named character building.
Just keep in mind that these games are dungeon crawlers at heart. They have a cool story leading you on but it won't be like P4 where you'll stop and grind social links for a few hours.
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