#1 Edited by 30krobert (8 posts) -

Ok, i understand that my last topic was hard to understand and overly exaggerating with the bold and all, so let me put it correctly and nicely this time.

1)The atmosphere of the game feels weak.

People say that there is beautiful music , and great views to be seen and i don't argue with that, but views and music isn't everything, infact it's just eye candy IMO, it might be pretty and immersing and all but the real atmosphere is in the world itself, in the people, the way of living, showing how a world might really exist, and thats where skyrim has it wrong.

Example: The loading screen says "Cows are great animals in skyrim, providing the locals with food fur and milk" , well i knew that, every 5 years old boy know what you get from a cow , the thing is the cows of skyrim are just dumb npcs who walk around doing nothing, most of skyrim atmosphere involves npcs doing nothing, just walking around , there's the occasional woodcutter here and there, but all and all it doesn't look like a functioning world. (And sad thing is , you need to install lots of mods to get people doing stuff so you feel immersed)

2)As i said before, Titles mean shit, and that's what Skyrim is about , growing up as a character.

It's a really basic thing in RPG games, to put the notion that you, as a character , grow up , become stronger , immerse into the world , but you can't achieve non of that if everyone in that world keep treating you the same , especially if you are the leader of the most infamous respected guilds AND Thane of all nine holds , which in my point of view is an irritating thing , now most people might think "Meh so a guy said leave me alone thief , SO WHAT?"

Well let me tell you then, in many other games of this type , even ones with smaller worlds , you get rewards for you achievements , even smaller ones then killing the SON OF AKATOSH , MIGHTY WORLD EATER, which is a really minimal task not any harder then shooting a deer really.. but anyhow you got to have something in the world moving around, you can't just do all those quests and every guard in skyrim laughs that someone stole your sweetrole, at the first steps of the game i understood that , because you are just a peasant, but later on when i amassed titles like a mother f**ker , it became very logic-less.

3)You have no influential power, you are always a meaningless character in the world.

Most of you feel great hanging around in the world of skyrim right? let me put this thought in your head, do you have any influence on this world? i guess not , because like joker said to batman in the dark knight.

"You have nothing! Nothing to threaten me with! Nothing to do with all your strength"

"so what if a farmer told me to Fuck off, its not like i can burn his whole city down can i?"

and it's true really , in Mass effect for example if Shepard is evil , people fear him in conversations , in skyrim though a farmer doesn't seem to give a shit about you killing the slayer of worlds, now i don't expect for every enemy to run away in tears , but i do expect some kind of power from having all that trouble and valor in battle , which is non-existent in the game sadly.

4)Saved the best for last , unpolished like most of Bethesda's games.

as with most of Bethesda games , there's seems to be a very unpolished work in almost every title they release, you know those movies about how they make CGI in movies , how the prototype animations look quirky and the textures are blurry , that's how everything in skyrim looks , the sitting animations , the horse rotating like a friggin HOVER CRAFT , its all not looking that good , it looks like its rushed , i know Bethesda are not Rockstar Games , but i don't think iam over-reacting , the game can really look clumsy at times , which might ruin immersion for me and probably others.

That's it i hope you understood this time, and please , NO PIES.

#2 Posted by darkgen (2 posts) -

Damn, thinking about it you are right on like... EVERYTHING :D

i really agree on those points, and thanks for laying it out in a smart mannered way and not BRAIIINNNNSSS!!

#3 Posted by tourgen (4238 posts) -

Yeah you have some very good points. The world not reacting to your fame and position in the power structure really stands out.

For me though the biggest issue is the very simplistic combat, especially magic. It needs a more active blocking and countering system and a better way to switch abilities and spells.

#4 Edited by 30krobert (8 posts) -

@tourgen said:

Yeah you have some very good points. The world not reacting to your fame and position in the power structure really stands out.

For me though the biggest issue is the very simplistic combat, especially magic. It needs a more active blocking and countering system and a better way to switch abilities and spells.

It links to Bethesda games being unpolished as i said , its just rushing out systems without perfecting them.

#6 Edited by Rowr (5238 posts) -

Stop making suggestions that threaten to turn elder scrolls into dragon age or something.

Look, every time they bring a new one out in the series they jump in leaps and bounds in addressing most of your issues here. The truth is really, the game couldn't possibley offer the same scope and depth and attention to detail if they spent all their time polishing it for immersion.

So go play dragon age 2 or plan for puberty or something.

#7 Posted by Clonedzero (3725 posts) -

@tourgen said:

Yeah you have some very good points. The world not reacting to your fame and position in the power structure really stands out.

For me though the biggest issue is the very simplistic combat, especially magic. It needs a more active blocking and countering system and a better way to switch abilities and spells.

It links to Bethesda games being unpolished as i said , its just rushing out systems without perfecting them.

If you think they're rushing the game out, well.... uh....I don't know what to say.

It's not realistic to expect characters and design of a linear RPG in a massive open world RPG.

I will agree, i HATE in TES games when you become the leader of a guild, since it does nothing for you. Just don't make me the leader, make me a high ranking member sure, but it makes NO sense to make me leader. I just joined a week ago, and I'm barely around, why would you make me the leader? Just don't make me the leader. That one does bug me.

I don't begrudge the game for not having everyone recognize you, since well, how are they going to? theres no pictures of you anywhere.

#8 Edited by 30krobert (8 posts) -

@rowr said:

Stop making suggestions that threaten to turn elder scrolls into dragon age or something.

Look, every time they bring a new one out in the series they jump in leaps and bounds in addressing most of your issues here. The truth is really, the game couldn't possibley offer the same scope and depth and attention to detail if they spent all their time polishing it for immersion.

So go play dragon age 2 or plan for puberty or something.

Oh god no that's not what iam suggesting, you probably misunderstood me, this game is based on characters growing up as they go , that's the whole point of R.P.G

even the developers said they want everyone feel like he's living in Skyrim, problem is it didn't work out that well.

attention to details is not my wish not even in the top 10 of my skyrim wishes, my wish is for the world to embrace you as the dragonborn, Hell i might dare to say you have more impact on the world in minecraft then you have in skyrim, because what would change if you save the world or choose to chase rabbits and pick flowers all day? nothing really.. and thinking about it kills the atmosphere for me.

#9 Edited by Rowr (5238 posts) -

@30krobert said:

@rowr said:

Stop making suggestions that threaten to turn elder scrolls into dragon age or something.

Look, every time they bring a new one out in the series they jump in leaps and bounds in addressing most of your issues here. The truth is really, the game couldn't possibley offer the same scope and depth and attention to detail if they spent all their time polishing it for immersion.

So go play dragon age 2 or plan for puberty or something.

Oh god no that's not what iam suggesting, you probably misunderstood me, this game is based on characters growing up as they go , that's the whole point of R.P.G

even the developers said they want everyone feel like he's living in Skyrim, problem is it didn't work out that well.

attention to details is not my wish not even in the top 10 of my skyrim wishes, my wish is for the world to embrace you as the dragonborn, Hell i might dare to say you have more impact on the world in minecraft then you have in skyrim, because what would change if you save the world or choose to chase rabbits and pick flowers all day? nothing really.. and thinking about it kills the atmosphere for me.

I agree it could be better - and i'm guessing in the next one it will be better in this regard (as skyrim was better than oblivion and oblivion better than morrowind.)

But the amount of content they cram into these games, locations they hand build, characters and stories they write - this game wasn't exactly rushed, these games have a 5 year development.

Maybe go back and play some Morrowind to see how far these games have actually come as far as presentation and atmosphere.

edit - thinking back on it, i feel like there were a ton of moments where you were recognised by npc's through the dialogue for your various achievements, even if it wasn't just every guy in the street, even then they had some dialogue that would change to recognise your skills etc.

I do agree becoming leaders at guilds feels a little emptier than it ought to and i never felt in skyrim that the rewards were up to snuff. I found the guild stuff a lot more satisfying in morrowind for whatever reason.

#10 Edited by Abendlaender (2597 posts) -

Yeah, that's true. I also really, really hated what they did with the companions especially compared to New Vegas where each companion had a story and a character. Lydia was just a vessel that shouted "A HEALING SPELL, ARE U A PRIEST?!?!?" every single fucking time I healed her or just screamed "Oh, I have never seen anything like this" in a random cave after just visiting a long lost dwarven underground city with an Elder Scroll in it.
I wouldn't mind that much (I guess) if Obsidian hadn't done a much better job in New Vegas.

And yeah, a bit recognition for saving the world and becoming the master of everything would have been nice. I could have just been a parade or some event like that instead of....nothing. Or, if they really don't want to do anything like that, they could at least come up with some contrived reason why nobody knows you like "And with Alduin slain, the high dragon priest (or whoever) casts a spell of forgetfulness over the good people of Skyrim for a very good reason bladibla"

#11 Edited by Rowr (5238 posts) -

Yeah, that's true. I also really, really hated what they did with the companions especially compared to New Vegas where each companion had a story and a character. Lydia was just a vessel that shouted "A HEALING SPELL, ARE U A PRIEST?!?!?" every single fucking time I healed her or just screamed "Oh, I have never seen anything like this" in a random cave after just visiting a long lost dwarven underground city with an Elder Scroll in it.

I wouldn't mind that much (I guess) if Obsidian hadn't done a much better job in New Vegas.

And yeah, a bit recognition for saving the world and becoming the master of everything would have been nice. I could have just been a parade or some event like that instead of....nothing. Or, if they really don't want to do anything like that, they could at least come up with some contrived reason why nobody knows you like "And with Alduin slain, the high dragon priest (or whoever) casts a spell of forgetfulness over the good people of Skyrim for a very good reason bladibla"

Ugh fucking lydia, she lives upstairs in the dark at my whiterun house like a hopped up she-troll, it seemed like a good place to ditch her as soon as she started as a follower.

I don't know why the fuck i left her there as she scares the shit out of me every time i wander up there completely forgetting the house isn't abandoned. Maybe there's a better way to do companions in elder scrolls where it's tolerable, but i just find for all their bumbling and stupidity it saps all the fun out of the combat and exploring.

#12 Edited by Scampbell (436 posts) -

I've always had a bit of a dual relationship to the Elder Scroll's games. On one had I can't deny the fact that they have been enormous time sinks to me, so in some way I must enjoy the games, going around doing pretty much whatever I like, and to say there is a lot of content would certainly be an understatement. But at the same time they (Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim, I haven't played the first two), are never truly satisfying.

Like you've said the rewards are often pretty measly, or maybe they feel that way, because the world is so over saturated with magic items that they loose their value. Though this is an almost consistent problem with most modern fantasy RPGs.

I remember playing Baldur's Gate (the first one) back in the days and how something as pathetic as a +1 Long Sword could feel like an awesome treasure, simple because magic items where fairly rare in that game.

I just seem like a lot of developers feel obligated to constantly pander to the player in fear they might stop playing. This is also one of my major issues with Skyrim, for instance the ease at which you can become the leader of almost any faction almost without even trying. As if that wasn't enough, apparently being a leader doesn't actually mean you have to take any responsibility for anything related to your faction.

Details like this, the aforementioned pretend-population and lack consequences of your actions, are what (to me) makes the game world feel shallow and very artificial. This is probably also the reason I tend to spend way more time just exploring randomly than actually doing anything remotely related to the plot. In fact as soon as I start progressing the story, that is probably also the instance my interest in the game starts to vane drastically.

Maybe a lot of these problems have to do with the inherent limits of any open world game, and maybe their next game will take advantage of the technology of next gen platforms like PS4 and Xbox One. Of course their next game will be their MMO The Elder Scrolls Online, a game I'm actually hesitantly optimistic about. As seems it some the weaknesses of games like Skyrim could be mitigated simple by the virtue of being an MMO.

Still Skyrim certainly isn't all bad, and for some it have helped them get through tough times.

#13 Edited by EXTomar (4125 posts) -

Bethesda has a notorious track record with Elder Scroll QA. But this time was the most polished and stable thing they've released let alone an ES game. The issue has been and always will be the engine and the complexity where for Skyrim they had a serious and concerted push to make sure the bugs where under control and it showed.

So Bethesda is in a tight spot. People want the huge complexity of ES worlds without the huge price tag and time delays to thoroughly test it to make sure it works. I don't know what to say besides to repeat: This is the most stable game Bethesda has put out that I can ever recall and it still has problems. If that is a problem for you then you might not ever want to pick up these games again. But to say or imply Skyrim was unpolished really isn't true.

#14 Posted by GERALTITUDE (2812 posts) -

Aren't there only like 90 people on the ESV team? DO YOU KNOW HOW FUCKED THAT IS!?

Anyways...

These are mostly valid, but I would separate World/Atmosphere - I'd say the atmosphere is very strong, but the NPCs do make the world seem very thin. You are right, it would really go a long way if the NPCs seemed more alive in these games.

#15 Posted by pweidman (2215 posts) -

Skyrim was not an unpolished game per se.

But it did launch with many, many bugs, and after every patch, more stuff was broken. The engine had been 'upgraded' so many times that it hit critical mass, and it couldn't handle all the stuff going on in the game. Skyrim was by far the most unstable game Beth has released. Dunno what in the hell people are thinking saying it was stable. That's completely false. If you played the game upon release you saw it...it was a mess. Oblivion was far and away more stable, and even FO3 was in much better shape than Skyrim. I still don't get why Bethesda just didn't invest in a new engine. I would love to know why.

Also, plenty of npc's acknowledge the Dova and many of the quests put your godly abilities front and center. This complaint in the OP I disagree with the most.

#16 Posted by Brendan (7518 posts) -

Number 2 is an important one for me that I hope can be addressed in the future. Thanks for taking the time to rewrite this, its much better.

That being said, the scope of these games make it improbable that we'll see a full solution to these problems anytime soon. I would respond with more but I'm typing from my phone.

#17 Posted by 30krobert (8 posts) -

@rowr:

Wanna hear something funny? i was talking to the girl at the cloths store in solitude and i invested money in her shop , so she burst in happiness about how good of a person i am and how iam always welcome, when i exited the conversation she uttered this gem "ugh , yet another pointless conversation comes to an end"

Yes they might give you some credit for deeds you have done, but the point is, its not more convincing than having R2D2 explain how much he loves pies , its all just *BEEP* *BOOP* *BOOP* *BEEP* its nothing you can take to heart and that's the disappointing part.

I didn't meant that they were rushed in the matter of time they put into the game, i meant i looks like its rushed because some important stuff didn't get enough attention.

Another funny example is when i was wandering around and i saw a farmer with his cow, he said he has no money to fix his farm so i choose to give him 25 septims , so he was happy and said he owes me his life , a moment later i went by him and heard this great gratitude "can't you see iam busy? go pester someone else"