This topic is locked from further discussion.

#1 Edited by 30krobert (8 posts) -

i get it its bad , don't read this unless you really want to

heres the new thread

http://www.giantbomb.com/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/3030-33394/forums/the-flaws-of-skyrim-correctly-put-this-time-1443328/#0

Well there have been millions of posts like this that i am sure of, but from what i've seen none of them touch the most important aspect of rewarding gameplay and i dare to say skyrim is one of the most unrewarding spiritrecking lurebreaking game out there and here is why

1)Titles don't mean shit , so accomplishments are meaning less , and accomplishments is all you want in skyrim.

So i start skyrim all fine and dandy reach to whiterun and the guards just bash me around , "move along newcomer" ok i get that , iam offended but i get iam a peasant , six months later (IN GAME iam not mentally ill) i come back to whiterun and listen to that "ohhh let me guess , someones stole your sweetroll".

Whiterun guard that's a very smart thing to say to the Savior of the World , Harbinger of the companions , Leader of the Dark Brotherhood , Master of the Thieves Guild , Right hand of the High King (if you're stormcloack), F***ing Thane of ALL 9 HOLDS, DragonSlayer , Army Breaker and something so trivial as perhaps a man who defeated the DEVOURER OF FRIGGIN WORLDS.

If we think about it in the logical way, telling one of the most powerful and importent people in all of tamriel , a guy who slayed the most powerful GODLIKE DRAGON that some stole his sweetroll is something only a man with either a deathwish or total ignorance would say right?

titles in skyrim mean absolute SHIT! pardon my language, i think most people would be disappointed going through all that CRAP just to be respected like a damn sheep peasant.

which is a real dumb thinking on Betheshda's side which i can't really understand, its something so basic in those games to get famous for being so powerful and fearsome , damn even in the so small mapped Mass Effect series people treated you better with smaller accomplishments , no matter what you do , how powerful you are , heck you may even be the high king and no one gives a shit about that , lest your a werewolf and then every guard and person tells you how f**king smelly and hairy you are . OH THAT'S FINE!

2)YOU JUST ENDED THE CIVIL WAR! HERE'S A SHIV FOR ALL THE EFFORT!

It always bugged me... doing so much and ending up getting a damn 9 dmg sword from the "Yarl's personal armory" . again its small minded thinking from the developers, you really need to reward players better to make them feel good about all those quests they went through . instead you get a free coupon to buy ale at the honningbrew meadery which is what i wanted for my whole life since i just killed a world slayer...

3) You don't have power no matter who you are

this is the final thing that makes skyrim flawed in my opinion, something i really crave in those type of games is REAL POWER, yeah you can swing a sword and all that crap but how about some real power! You're the harbinger right? how about sending your men to do stuff for you? , i don't mean quests but stuff, like going to slay beasts that harass people.

how about making people come beg you to kill someone since you are the leader of the dark brotherhood , none of that exist , instead you get nothing , only people referencing your status here and there, that's not real power, that's Bullshit.

Well , this is everything that in my opinion really makes this game bad , don't see that as a total bash on its honor , because its good , but there are some basic flaws that somewhat ruin the whole atmosphere for me and for many others probably and its these thing , really seeing your effect on the world is what immerse you the most in RPG games, so what do you think?

#2 Posted by jimmyfenix (3852 posts) -

Do not yell at me.

#3 Posted by 30krobert (8 posts) -

Do not yell at me.

thanks for such a useful comment that really make me proud i wrote my opinion!

#4 Edited by jimmyfenix (3852 posts) -

@30krobert: I dont have a problem with your opinion but it is badly layed out and it just sounds like your angry at the game. clear up your layout and put some more time and make this somewhat readable.

#5 Posted by alwaysbebombing (1568 posts) -

It's OK to disagree with something. But lay it out in a way that doesn't make you look like an ignorant tool.

#6 Edited by selfconfessedcynic (2505 posts) -

Why is half of this in headings and bold?

Anyway - I can see why small hangups like those can ruin someone's time with a game, but thankfully I've never had that issue myself. It all comes down to your tolerance of "suspension of disbelief". If you have a low tolerance then I feel sorry for you more than anything else, since no game is perfect.

What I'm saying is, Skyrim was awesome - in spite of these problems. I think it was like #3 on my GOTY list of that year and it's the first and only Bethesda game I've liked that much.

#7 Posted by theguy (796 posts) -

It's OK to disagree with something. But lay it out in a way that doesn't make you look like an ignorant tool.

Agreed.

#8 Posted by ZeForgotten (10397 posts) -

Meh, all of the Elder Scrolls games were nothing but eye candy (in their respective time of relevance)

It's like this.
Elders Scrolls games are like the open sea with all sorts of beautiful things happening on top of it all. And Skyrim looked super good.
Sadly the game part of the Elder Scrolls games has the depth of a puddle.

#9 Edited by buft (3315 posts) -

If you think about it back when the world was a simpler place and lords and ladies ran their areas with impunity, the knight Errant was a character who plowed his trade in the name of his lord, he may have done the deed but the real glory went to those higher up and perhaps skyrim is no exception to this type medieval chivalric lore. sure you killed the devourer of worlds and all that good stuff but who told you to do it?

#10 Posted by Rowr (5536 posts) -

This is a great thread.

Heres a picture of a strudle.

#11 Posted by Veektarius (4772 posts) -

I bet a lot of people are going to change their opinions about it two years later.

#12 Posted by danm_999 (74 posts) -

Wait, I'm confused. Your topic title claims Skyrim is a "very bad game".

You then proceed to list three legitimate flaws of the roleplaying aspect of the game, and conclude;

Well , this is everything that in my opinion really makes this game bad , don't see that as a total bash on its honor , because its good , but there are some basic flaws that somewhat ruin the whole atmosphere for me and for many others probably and its these thing , really seeing your effect on the world is what immerse you the most in RPG games, so what do you think?

So...which is it? Is Skyrim a 'very bad game', or is Skyrim a 'good' game with some pretty obvious flaws that harm some of the immersion? I'm really confused.

For the record, I personally think Skryim is a pretty great game with some flaws in terms of plot, atmosphere and immersion.

#13 Posted by cbarnes86 (556 posts) -

To each his own, but I've put like 200+ hours into three characters in this game.

#14 Edited by EXTomar (4683 posts) -

Skyrim is the most playable Elder Scroll game I've seen but the story and substory plots don't seem to be very well integrated. I also feel the "randomly generated quests" are a slight miss where it needs more variance to make them feel organic instead of generated.

But in the end I'll take more games like Skyrim than I will take Oblivion or anything older.

#15 Posted by geirr (2529 posts) -

It isn't.

#16 Posted by RollingZeppelin (1958 posts) -

I agree with your points, but I find your strange use of punctuation and spaces off putting.

#17 Posted by crcruz3 (255 posts) -

Can't you just kill that guard?

#18 Posted by Abendlaender (2787 posts) -

I'm sorry I can't read that, could you possible use more bold and a larger font size?

I'm sure you make some valid points but please reformat the text, this looks really, really bad.

#19 Posted by RadecAU (91 posts) -

@crcruz3 said:

Can't you just kill that guard?

#20 Posted by tourgen (4465 posts) -

You have some good points but you present them maybe not in the best way.

It's a good game but yes, it could be much better. I had serious problems with the simplistic combat, especially magic.

#21 Posted by lexpar (31 posts) -

Just hold on for the next Bethesda game. Or Witcher 3.

#22 Posted by Chaser324 (6418 posts) -

You're doing your argument a huge disservice with the formatting of your post. Clean it up and people will instantly take you more seriously.

Moderator
#23 Edited by believer258 (11794 posts) -

Titles don't mean shit , so accomplishments are meaning less , and accomplishments is all you want in skyrim.

So I can't play Skyrim because I want to listen to the beautiful music or gawk at the landscape or play a role in my role-playing game, even if the mechanics involved in that role are heavily flawed? This seems like your only basic criticism with the game, and while it is a legitimate complaint it's ignoring all of the things that make Skyrim (and Bethesda games in general) special - the world around you. A very flawed world, yes, but then no other developer has ever made something on the same kind of scale. Yes, you have huge open worlds in other games, but there aren't any others that really include so many systems and ideas.

Also, your post is fucking obnoxious, duder.

Online
#24 Posted by Yadilie (380 posts) -

It's not really that hard to nail down why Skyrim isn't as great as it was hyped up to be.

1) Worthless dungeons.

You'll spend the first handful of dungeons exploring every single nook and corner because you think you'll find something awesome like cool hidden passages that lead to good loot. You'll spend 30 minutes+ in these tiny dungeons just opening every single pot and picklocking every single chest. Then you realize there is nothing. There is no loot. There are no hidden passages to anything. You go from spending 30 minutes in a dungeon to 5 minutes. This leads to the second issue.

2) Loot is mostly worthless

The amount of loot in this game that is worthless far outnumbers anything that is actually useful. Even when you get to weapons and armor there are only a few upgrades in the game and it all comes down to breaking the alchemy and crafting system for you to get anything that actually has good stats on it. That sword I got early on in the game? Kept it for hours and hours before finding another weapon that was just sliiiightly better than it, but sadly was soul weapon. I'm not saying that Bethesda had to make the game a super loot hungry game but it would've helped to go in that direction just a tiny little bit. Basically just to give more variety out of the weapons apart from the very limited Daedric weapons.

3) Voice acting, Open Worlds and Status changing quests

Voice acting can be great. It can set the tone of scenes and give more life to a video game. But what happens when you try to have a game that is 100% full of voice acting? Now I'm not exactly privy to how contracts work in the voice acting industry but I would assume that the more lines someone has to read the more they'll get paid. Now what happens when you make a game that has these status defining/changing quests in it? You go from a random prisoner to a Jarl of a city. Well the first obvious thing you would do is change all the dialogue to reflect this. Would people really be talking shit to a Jarl of a town? Most likely not. But the problem you run into is that the game is fully voice acted. Those new lines need to be read and there are a lot of people that dialogue would have to change for. Not only that but there are tons of quests in Skyrim that change the status of your character. Yet, everyone around you keeps going on like they did at the the very beginning of the game. I feel as though those dialogue changes are a staple of the RPG genre and have been for years, but the inherent high cost of voice acting, especially when you throw in celebrity actors, just piles up too much to do this effectively.

4) Level scaling and Open Worlds

Level scaling is the bane of open world RPGs. It never works properly and is absolutely frustrating to be hacking and whacking at a bandit or ice troll but then turn around and kill a dragon in 5 hits. By not having a loot system more akin to let's say Diablo or Torchwood you really have no true of getting breaking free from the level scaling without severly abusing the alchemy and blacksmithing systems.

Not saying it's a bad game but these 4 things are mainly why I get desperately bored with it, specifically the level scaling. Sorry for the rant guys. =)

#25 Posted by cloudnineboya (798 posts) -

blasphemy , so is it GOOD or bad , nearly every game has flaws your post is like me who just finished fallout 3 then calling it shit because you have to walk everywhere and that there is no vehicles to get about quicker , which is true it its a pain in the ass but boy is that game the biz. GOTY

#26 Posted by Rafaelfc (1332 posts) -

Skyrim is a FANTASTIC game, that there's obvious room for improvement only makes me more excited for next-gen installments.

Online
#27 Posted by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -

@danm_999 said:

Wait, I'm confused. Your topic title claims Skyrim is a "very bad game".

You then proceed to list three legitimate flaws of the roleplaying aspect of the game, and conclude;

Well , this is everything that in my opinion really makes this game bad , don't see that as a total bash on its honor , because its good , but there are some basic flaws that somewhat ruin the whole atmosphere for me and for many others probably and its these thing , really seeing your effect on the world is what immerse you the most in RPG games, so what do you think?

So...which is it? Is Skyrim a 'very bad game', or is Skyrim a 'good' game with some pretty obvious flaws that harm some of the immersion? I'm really confused.

For the record, I personally think Skryim is a pretty great game with some flaws in terms of plot, atmosphere and immersion.

Also, he claims that Skyrim is a very bad game after listing a bunch of a in-game accomplishments that would have taken him like 100+ hours to complete.

Why would you play "a very bad game" for 100+ hours? I play every bad games for like 2 hours at most, and that's with over an hour of reserving judgment and just hoping they get better.

Any game that keeps you playing long enough to get to the point at which you fault it, (that being that the end of the game doesn't acknowledge your accomplishments in a way that is sufficient for you) is actually a very, very good game.

Skyrim is a 10/10 for me. To the guy who said it was all eye candy and no gameplay... er... what? I don't even know what you mean by that. It's ALL gameplay.

#28 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

Whiterun guard that's a very smart thing to say to the Leader of the Dark Brotherhood , Master of the Thieves Guild

I know! Why doesn't the medieval equivalent of a police man have any respect for the medieval equivalent of a high level terrorist?

#29 Posted by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -

@yadilie said:

It's not really that hard to nail down why Skyrim isn't as great as it was hyped up to be.

1) Worthless dungeons.

You'll spend the first handful of dungeons exploring every single nook and corner because you think you'll find something awesome like cool hidden passages that lead to good loot. You'll spend 30 minutes+ in these tiny dungeons just opening every single pot and picklocking every single chest. Then you realize there is nothing. There is no loot. There are no hidden passages to anything. You go from spending 30 minutes in a dungeon to 5 minutes. This leads to the second issue.

2) Loot is mostly worthless

The amount of loot in this game that is worthless far outnumbers anything that is actually useful. Even when you get to weapons and armor there are only a few upgrades in the game and it all comes down to breaking the alchemy and crafting system for you to get anything that actually has good stats on it. That sword I got early on in the game? Kept it for hours and hours before finding another weapon that was just sliiiightly better than it, but sadly was soul weapon. I'm not saying that Bethesda had to make the game a super loot hungry game but it would've helped to go in that direction just a tiny little bit. Basically just to give more variety out of the weapons apart from the very limited Daedric weapons.

3) Voice acting, Open Worlds and Status changing quests

Voice acting can be great. It can set the tone of scenes and give more life to a video game. But what happens when you try to have a game that is 100% full of voice acting? Now I'm not exactly privy to how contracts work in the voice acting industry but I would assume that the more lines someone has to read the more they'll get paid. Now what happens when you make a game that has these status defining/changing quests in it? You go from a random prisoner to a Jarl of a city. Well the first obvious thing you would do is change all the dialogue to reflect this. Would people really be talking shit to a Jarl of a town? Most likely not. But the problem you run into is that the game is fully voice acted. Those new lines need to be read and there are a lot of people that dialogue would have to change for. Not only that but there are tons of quests in Skyrim that change the status of your character. Yet, everyone around you keeps going on like they did at the the very beginning of the game. I feel as though those dialogue changes are a staple of the RPG genre and have been for years, but the inherent high cost of voice acting, especially when you throw in celebrity actors, just piles up too much to do this effectively.

4) Level scaling and Open Worlds

Level scaling is the bane of open world RPGs. It never works properly and is absolutely frustrating to be hacking and whacking at a bandit or ice troll but then turn around and kill a dragon in 5 hits. By not having a loot system more akin to let's say Diablo or Torchwood you really have no true of getting breaking free from the level scaling without severly abusing the alchemy and blacksmithing systems.

Not saying it's a bad game but these 4 things are mainly why I get desperately bored with it, specifically the level scaling. Sorry for the rant guys. =)

I just sounds like you wish it was a different genre of game. All of the things you describe equal a game I wouldn't play, i.e. Borderlands. I played the first few fetch quests in that game and then went "so... it's just this grind over and over again for the next however many hours with the only thing changing is what
'phat lewt' I get? No thanks."

Oblivion's level system was definitely broken and I disliked it, but Skyrim felt like a great improvement in my opinion.

#30 Posted by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

Hey, OP. See that mountain over there? You can climb it.

-Todd "Father of Lies" Howard

#31 Posted by JasonR86 (9657 posts) -

You're a little late dude.

Online
#32 Posted by Grilledcheez (3947 posts) -

I think it's pretty good, but THEY NEED TO MAKE THE LOOT SYSTEM BETTER. Finding the same things over and over at a high level isn't very fun, there should be more unique items, more extremely rare items, and items with effects that the player can't make!

#33 Edited by Clonedzero (4200 posts) -

I hate hyperbole. While i might love the game, I can understand why someone might not, but saying its "very bad" is objectively wrong. Just like saying Call of Duty games are bad games. Simply because you don't like something does not make it bad.

#34 Posted by oraknabo (1457 posts) -

Problems with the OP aside, the titles thing does bug the hell out of me.

#35 Posted by Yadilie (380 posts) -

@jazgalaxy:

What does genre have to do with anything? Having weapons and armor that are actually useful without using the broken alchemy system suddenly changes the genre of a game?

The level scaling was also not fixed. Why was a bandit more powerful than the final boss? Why were bandits more powerful than regular dragons?

Are you talking about Borderlands here or Skyrim? Because going into the same empty boring 3 dungeon types isn't really that fun or great.

@ahaisthisourchance

:If Todd Howard is the Father of Lies then who is Peter Molyneux?

#36 Edited by frankfartmouth (1016 posts) -

Skyrim isn't really my thing--like some others have said, it's more of a genre preference than anything (I'm far more partial to JRPGs or more linear adventure games), but it's certainly easy to acknowledge that it's a high quality game for what it is.

I'm not exactly sure what overall point the OP is making about it, whether it's bad, good or in between, but he kicked the whole thing off with "very bad," so I'll go with that. And that is a hard argument to defend.

#37 Edited by SlashDance (1814 posts) -

No it's not "very bad", not even close.

The thing I hate the most about over hyped games is not the fact that they're never that amazing, it's the fact that it incites some people to be completely unfair to what the game is just to show that they're smarter than the masses and can see through the hype.

#38 Posted by CornBREDX (5100 posts) -

I agree with a lot of your points, but none of them make Skyrim a "very bad game". Just a good game with flaws- which is any game ever really as nothing is perfect.

Also, your grammar and spelling needs some work. You realize "I am" is two words right? Or is that a thing now, to spell it together?

Why is most of this in bold or otherwise really big text? It seems like you're screaming a lot. It makes you come off like a whiney little baby.

#39 Posted by JoeyRavn (4966 posts) -

I was going to disagree with you, but then I saw the totally underused macro and thought to myself: "Man, this guy means business. He surely can't be wrong!". The constant switching between bolded and normal text also proves your point without a shade of doubt.

So, yeah, you win, duder. I would give you the title of "Winner of Everything", but titles don't mean shit.

#40 Posted by Brendan (7762 posts) -

And yet another new user from the IGN side of the internet makes a thread, is swiftly rebuffed, and is never seen again. Goodbye, my sweet prince :( Now where's that 13 year old with a crush on Ellie from The Last of Us? I had high hopes for that user.

#41 Posted by Hunkulese (2697 posts) -

@30krobert: I like how you used a bigger font. That was crucial.

#42 Edited by Evilsbane (4594 posts) -

That's just like your opinion ... man. Also "iam" is a brand of dog food.

#43 Edited by Galiant (2193 posts) -

You're asking for yet another layer in a game with way too many layers already. I agree with some of your complaints, and I'm sure there were a lot of things they wanted to implement that had to be cut because realistically you can only spend so much time and money on a game. They probably focused on other aspects of immersion that you would be complaining about had they not been there in the final game.

I've learned that there's no point in playing a game if you're not having fun with it (my time is more precious than that), so I don't see why you bothered going through all that content if Skyrim is indeed a "very bad game".

That being said, please don't format your posts like a mad man in the future...

#44 Posted by stryker1121 (1403 posts) -

OP makes some decent points, particularly in terms of your character's impact on the world, and how that impact is negligible in many aspects. I'd complain about the loot, too, although ES has never really been about that. At this point (200-plus hours with the same character) I've crafted mega-sweet armor sets and weapons, making every single chest I open utterly worthless. I don't even need the gold at this point. Still greatly enjoy Skyrim, it just doesn't have the depth of past ES titles.

#45 Posted by Jace (1092 posts) -

This whole thread is fuckin hilarious.

#46 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

Why OP's is a bad post

because ,

it's formatted

~

wEiRd

(Also because spaces should not appear before commas.)

#47 Edited by ThePickle (4167 posts) -

Are users on Giant Bomb just unaware of the review feature?