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#1 Edited by Yummylee (22538 posts) -

...surgeons? By which I of course mean the final 'combat' segment of the game, where you enter a room to see Ellie unconscious on the operating table, with three doctors staring at you in horror. So, how did we all handle the situation? I kinda panicked at first and didn't even realise there were all these choices... I shot the doctor who threatened me with little hesitation, because it felt necessary at the time and Joel was at a point where he didn't give a single shit anymore about anything besides Ellie, so it also felt in-character at that.

I pointed my gun at the other two, just to confirm that it was totally possible to shoot them as well, but I didn't go that far. They were staying out of the way for good reason and I knew they wouldn't actually try anything after watching the first get a bullet to the face.

#2 Posted by MrBalmer (23 posts) -

I shot the first after it looked like he was reaching for a weapon. Then i assumed the second would do the same so i shot him. Then the woman cowering on the floor called me a monster so i shot her too. If i went into that situation with a clear head i would of done it differently but i had gone through so much to keep Ellie safe by that point that the red mist had descended. Aint no one touchin ma Ellie!

#3 Edited by Do_The_Manta_Ray (739 posts) -

I stood there for good, long while; simply aiming my shotty at the first surgeon's face. At some point, I began edging closer, and went as far as to lower my gun which I assumed would prompt the surgeon to do the same. When he didn't, I pressed square which resulted in a brutal take-down that involved the surgeon getting his entire throat slit open by the scalpel he'd been threatening me with. I would have preferred not to hurt them, but time was a concern and I couldn't wait any longer. The woman called me an animal but the man stopped her from doing anything. At that point I just took Ellie and ran, wondering how the contrast of his brutal murder and his tender care for Ellie must've struck those folk.

I spoke to a pal about it and he said he'd simply fired a shot next to the surgeon which had caused him to drop in fear and scramble away. Surprisingly dynamic scene all said and done.

#4 Edited by CaLe (4052 posts) -

I first tried walking away just to see what would happen, but you can't because the door is locked. I then approached the doctor holding the scalpel as close as I could and pressed a button, this made Joel grab the doctor's hand and shove the scalpel into his throat. I didn't fire any shots in that room.

Online
#5 Posted by Creamypies (4091 posts) -

I killed all 3 of them. Felt in character at that point.

#6 Posted by Morningstar (2240 posts) -

I shot two of the three. The last one begged for his life so I let him be.

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#7 Posted by Jaytow (705 posts) -

I used a flame thrower...

#8 Posted by OmegaPirate (5522 posts) -

Shot the surgeon as he reached to grab something - the other two backed away and one started crying so i felt i'd made my intent clear by that point, after a couple of seconds i was satisfied they weren't gonna try anything so i grabbed her and ran.

#9 Posted by MildMolasses (3229 posts) -

Even that thread title seems a bit spoilery

#10 Edited by RVonE (4700 posts) -

So, just out of curiosity, apart from the role playing aspect, does killing them or not killing them have any consequences to how the rest plays out?

#11 Posted by White (1410 posts) -

You should change the title. Just mentioning "surgeons" is a giveaway.

#12 Posted by Rasmoss (473 posts) -

Stabbed the first one, let the others live.

#13 Posted by alwaysbebombing (1649 posts) -

I stabbed the guy, then let the others live. Knowing the would reconsider their life paths.

#14 Posted by Village_Guy (2662 posts) -

I had three bullets left in my revolver, so I gave them a bullet each. The first guy (the one who grabbed a syringe or something) made a nice bloodsplatter. I don't know why I remember that, there just was something about that splatter that was really effective...

#15 Posted by GunstarRed (5459 posts) -

I stabbed the guy, then let the others live. Knowing the would reconsider their life paths.

They were only trying to save the human race... nothing big or anything.

I shot the doctor no hesitation and then beat the other two to death in case another one of them tried to attack me. I just wanted to save Ellie and get the hell out of there as quick as possible.

Online
#16 Posted by alwaysbebombing (1649 posts) -

@gunstarred:

@alwaysbebombing said:

I stabbed the guy, then let the others live. Knowing the would reconsider their life paths.

They were only trying to save the human race... nothing big or anything.

I shot the doctor no hesitation and then beat the other two to death in case another one of them tried to attack me. I just wanted to save Ellie and get the hell out of there as quick as possible.

Yeah. I had grown so attached to her. So much of humanity had already been lost. I just didn't see the point in sacrificing my only reason to live for something I didn't think mattered anymore.

#17 Posted by Darji (5293 posts) -

Killed them all because I was so invested in Noels Character. I felt the hatred for these people.

#18 Posted by OllyOxenFree (4985 posts) -

I actually thought that if I held my gun long enough at him that he would back down. Nope. Stabbed him instead with his own scalpel.

#19 Posted by RonGalaxy (3266 posts) -

Apparently you can also shoot near the guy with the scalpel and have him drop it, leaving all of the doctors untouched. I, personally, shot that dude within seconds of him reaching for a weapon. The fact that I did this in the moment, without thought or hesitation (which I am afforded since I'm actually not in danger) is fucking scary. I was completely invested in the moment; it was like I had tunnel vision into this world, and I actually killed that man...

Of course I know he's a fake video game man made of polygons, but it's still the most powerful and disturbing thing I've ever done in a video game.

This game is just crazy

#20 Posted by MarvinPontiac (122 posts) -

I didn't get the prompt to interact with Ellie until I murdered all three doctors. Sorry guys! May your OR scrubs stay crispy-clean in heaven.

#21 Edited by Redbullet685 (6085 posts) -

I shot the first two, and then saw the woman on the ground and I wasn't going to shoot her. I went up to Ellie and pressed triangle and nothing happened, and I really didn't see a button prompt so I shot the last doctor and then saw the prompt over Ellie. I, at the time, kinda thought I had to kill all three.

#22 Posted by damswedon (3201 posts) -

I shot the first guy and then ran around in a circle while I was waiting for the button prompt to show up.

#23 Edited by TheMasterDS (2137 posts) -

I shot them all. Way I figure they put their best and brightest doctors on the surgery. No doctors, no ability to execute on the whole cure thing.

In retrospect the cure would be too little too late honestly. What the fuck is the point of a cure without a means to distribute it? Are we going to immunize the Fireflies and call it a day? Are we going to give it to the Hunters, the Man Eaters and the Raiders and hope they chill out now the zombie problem's been dealt with? There's a whole lot that can happen because of a cure but none of them are "Restore world order" especially if there are still remaining infected wandering around blindly.

#24 Posted by bkbroiler (1641 posts) -

I shot the first guy in his hand, thinking he would drop his scalpel. Instead he crumbled in death hilariously from the smallest bullet wound. Oh well. Let the other two live.

#25 Posted by Weltal (2275 posts) -

I didn't even think about the fact that there might be a choice, considering how you don't really run into non-combatants in a combat situation at any other point. So I shot them all.

#26 Posted by RE_Player1 (7526 posts) -

I shot them all. I was pissed about how they treated Joel after he brought Ellie to them for their cause. The fireflies are pieces of shit.

#27 Posted by RE_Player1 (7526 posts) -

@gunstarred:

@gunstarred said:

@alwaysbebombing said:

I stabbed the guy, then let the others live. Knowing the would reconsider their life paths.

They were only trying to save the human race... nothing big or anything.

I shot the doctor no hesitation and then beat the other two to death in case another one of them tried to attack me. I just wanted to save Ellie and get the hell out of there as quick as possible.

Yeah. I had grown so attached to her. So much of humanity had already been lost. I just didn't see the point in sacrificing my only reason to live for something I didn't think mattered anymore.

Their cause sounded noble but the fireflies were as messed up as any other group. Look how they treated Joel after he brought Ellie to them and if you read the various notes and listen to a recording from the university hospital regarding the monkeys you see how stupid the organization is. I doubt they would have actually rendered a cure from Ellie.

#28 Edited by ervonymous (1297 posts) -

Nothing happened when I just walked up to the scalpel guy and it became obvious the scene was set up for snap judgment. The three just stood there frozen in time, I threw a brick at the man but it just shattered with no effect. I ended up slitting his throat, didn't think a warning shot would do much good after him shrugging off a brick to the face.

#29 Posted by vinone (139 posts) -

I wondered around the room while he held a scalpel trying to figure out how I could do this without killing anyone and just take the girl. Once I couldn't figure anything out, I walked up to him and cut his throat and picked her up and left.

#30 Posted by Krullban (1062 posts) -

I shot the first guy in the head, then shot the other 2 in the stomach, and when they were crawling on the ground shot them in the head.

#31 Posted by GunstarRed (5459 posts) -

@msavo said:

@alwaysbebombing said:

@gunstarred:

@gunstarred said:

@alwaysbebombing said:

I stabbed the guy, then let the others live. Knowing the would reconsider their life paths.

They were only trying to save the human race... nothing big or anything.

I shot the doctor no hesitation and then beat the other two to death in case another one of them tried to attack me. I just wanted to save Ellie and get the hell out of there as quick as possible.

Yeah. I had grown so attached to her. So much of humanity had already been lost. I just didn't see the point in sacrificing my only reason to live for something I didn't think mattered anymore.

Their cause sounded noble but the fireflies were as messed up as any other group. Look how they treated Joel after he brought Ellie to them and if you read the various notes and listen to a recording from the university hospital regarding the monkeys you see how stupid the organization is. I doubt they would have actually rendered a cure from Ellie.

Joel is kinda a scumbag and deserved that kind of treatment. Marlene only knew he took on the job for selfish reasons and of his dodgy past. She doesn't know how he treated Ellie or know how much they had bonded in a father-daughter way or what they had been through. (assuming they took her straight from being knocked out to being prepped for surgery) I didn't stop and read anything/ listen to anything extra because I thought it would break the flow of the game, and what's told in the cutscenes is the only information a lot of people will ever know. Their cause was noble as I and many others will see it. No matter how fucked up things had gotten or how idiotic their cause possibly was, they were trying to make a better world amongst all the murder and chaos.

Online
#32 Edited by jasonefmonk (346 posts) -

I shot the guy with the scalpel in the knee and he promptly died.

@ervonymous said:

Nothing happened when I just walked up to the scalpel guy ... I threw a brick at the man but it just shattered with no effect ...

With all the possibilities there were still ways for a few of us to break the effect. Still an awesome sequence though.

#33 Posted by TheManWithNoPlan (5989 posts) -

I was pretty conflicted as to whether I wanted to stop the surgery, so when I went in the operating room I hesitated. When the doctor pulled out the knife I stopped and listened to his desperate threat. Once I realized I had to do something to move forward the situation, I pulled out my gun, still nothing. I then became frustrated when I shot him in the leg and it killed him. My intent was to just remove him as a threat. I left the other two doctors alone and took ellie.

On a side note. I really wish in that situation I as a player had more agency. It would've been nice if the game gave me the choice to decide whether I wanted to go through with Joel's decision, at least that's how I look at it as a game. The difference between games and movies is of course that in movies you're a passive entity, while in games you are the active participant. I really wish more games gave me choices as to how the story goes. Of course that's just my complaint. Naughty Dog had a specific story to tell and it was a damn good one. I thought I had it spoiled for me and I was happy to find my own expectations were subverted . The end left me happy, sad, and confused all at the same time. This years GOTY discussions are going to be interesting.

#34 Posted by TruthTellah (9472 posts) -

Considering what happened -immediately- after that where Joel shot someone out of fear that they'd just come after them, I think the most in-character response to the surgeons was to shoot all three. If you left any of them, they'd just lead a push to come after you, but if you killed them all, it would likely end with them. Or it would at least send the message that anyone even daring to come after you or Ellie would face a similar fate.

#35 Posted by TooSweet (398 posts) -

When I got to the surgeons and he pulled the scalpel on me I had my shotgun drawn. I just stared at them all for like 20 seconds thinking I don't want to kill you but if that's what it takes, then so be it. I even got near the surgeon to see if he'd go through with it. Nothing. So I shot him in the gut. The other two were in a panic and one tried to settle the other. All I could think of was fuck the Fireflies and fuck the surgeon anyway. Finally that line from Man of Steel came into my head, "Krypton had it's chance." Well, our world had it's chance if we are all gone then fuck it. Left the two remaining doctors, took Ellie and ran for it.

In the end I was relieved but kind of bummed too. Joel mentioned how when things get tough you find a reason to keep going. His was Ellie. Her story about her friends in the end made me feel a bit selfish. I also felt like she knew I was lying because she was ready to die.

#36 Posted by digbykong (14 posts) -

I beat them to death with a barrel, then calmly proceeded to eat a banana while sitting on a corpse.

#37 Posted by Chtasm (463 posts) -

I had my gun drawn on the main surgeon and went up to his face with it. I then tried to melee him to try and knock him out or something and Joel ending up slicing the dude's jugular with his own scalpel. It was disappointing because it's not like you can find surgeons popping up everywhere in this post-pandemic world and Joel just fucking wastes him.

#38 Edited by Kazzenn (150 posts) -

@naru_joe93: Same for me. I just did it a couple minutes ago and I didn't even hesitate to shoot this innocent guy who didn't do anything wrong, hell I'm actually the bad guy in this situation because I'm fucking everything up.

Fucking fantastic game.

#39 Posted by AyKay_47 (293 posts) -

I shot the first guy in his hand, thinking he would drop his scalpel. Instead he crumbled in death hilariously from the smallest bullet wound. Oh well. Let the other two live.

After staring him down for a good 10 seconds, I did the exact same thing and had pretty much the same reaction.

#40 Posted by SecondPersonShooter (619 posts) -

I played this game with three other people in the room, just finished minutes ago, by this point we were all fully focused and into it.


I entered the surgery room, he pulled the knife, when i realized I couldn't move past a certain point I ran around screaming "There must be another way".

Eventually I try to hit the square button for something to happen, and to my surprise Joel, with no hesitation, grabs the doctors scalpel and slits his throat. At this point I realize there is no turning back for Joel's character.


Now, at this point I would have gone and rescued Ellie, but I instinctively took in that the doctor's were cowering. I went to free Ellie and my friend said "Wait, kill the doctors". I said no and then he said "just the girl", joking, not thinking the game would actually let it happen. Then I went over and pressed square, and Joel, with no hesitation, brutally murdered her.

By this point we were so taken back by Joel's actions that I just grabbed Ellie and ran out of the room, and we were silent for pretty much the rest of the game.


Brilliant ending.

#41 Posted by Vertrucio (149 posts) -

Sad thing is, medically, there was no reason to require Ellie's death. In fact, the best scientists, even ones that are psychpathic mad scientists, would recognize that Ellie being alive in the hospital for a long stay with lots of tests over the years is worth more than a hack job of a surgery to cut out infected parts of her brain.

You literally do not need to get an entire sample of the cordyceps parasite directly from the brain. You just get a sample from her blood or other bodily fluid, it's the exact same thing. Then there's this thing called "culturing" where you take a basic strain of something and just grow more for lab use, not a big deal.

Also, the immunity is within Ellie, or likely the interactions.

I would have loved to see it end instead on a note where you have a crazy scientist who wants all the credit for saving humanity there and then, trying to grab as much samples directly to speed up the process. Then, a more reasonable scientist trying to get Joel to help.

In the end, they could still need to have a risky surgery. One where they don't know if it will be successful, and Ellie makes the choice to go through with it. Ellie and Joel have a really heartbreaking talk before the surgery. Then as she's being prepped and laid down on the table, you flash back to Joel laying Sara down, coming to grips with his loss, and now potential loss of Ellie.

I cringed the moment I heard Marlene say some BS about needing to kill Ellie. If they'd gone with my route, we could also have skipped that terrible section where you're dodging soldiers.

In the end, knowing the science and medicine behind it could have led to a more interesting outcome. Not only that, if they wanted to leave more room for a sequel, it's easy enough to say, as others have pointed out, that a vaccine would take a long time to develop, and even if there was one it would take a long time to distribute.

#42 Posted by Elwoodan (868 posts) -

I didn't understand how they couldn't have just removed part of the infection from her arm or just take a tiny little bit of it off her brain, so I assumed they weren't actually doctors and sent them on their way with/to El Diablo.

On a side note, I really hated the last three weapons (Shorty, El Diablo, Flamethrower) they felt really out of place along side the generic weapons you come up with earlier on.

#43 Posted by RYNO9881 (625 posts) -

I shot two of the three. The last one begged for his life so I let him be.

When I read this I imagine you in a dark room with a hoarse voice.

#44 Posted by dropabombonit (1492 posts) -

I shot the first guy because he raised a weapon at me but i seen the other 2 hunker down after that so knew they weren't a threat so just took Ellie and ran out of there

#45 Posted by Strider57 (12 posts) -

I stabbed the first guy, the one heading for a weapon. I didn't even think about harming the other two, I just went for Ellie.

#46 Posted by Scroll (601 posts) -

I shot the first surgeon without hesitation, He shouldn't have threatened me.

#47 Edited by M_Shini (551 posts) -

Shoot the first surgeon after he grabbed for the knife then immediately shot the other two, i never cared about any strangers before why should i care now just for the sake of saving a couple life's if it could get in the way of saving Ellie.

#48 Edited by EL_WRAY80 (5 posts) -

Shot the first guy without even thinking. I was so into the game that I just felt anger towards those surgeons. Pulled out my flame thrower (pretty much what I used throughout that hospital level) while the woman called me an animal (?) and torched them. Didn't think much of it until I read most of these posts, in retrospect that was pretty efffed...

#49 Posted by kishinfoulux (2511 posts) -

Shot them all. If it was supposed to be some kind of big choice it certainly didn't feel that way.

#50 Posted by VirtuaGrant (52 posts) -

@themasterds: I don't know...if they vaccinated the Fireflies then went across the country offering the vaccine to people they came across and wiping out Infected eventually the fungal infection would be eradicated and there would, hopefully, be enough people to start some kind of society without the ever present threat of the disease. I'd like to think that the possibility of a solution would convince people to band together and stop killing each other. I doubt it though.

Having said that I shot all three of the doctors. Didn't even think about it to be honest. As soon as I had the ability to do so I did it. I think I was pretty invested in Joel's mindset by that point, they were just another obstacle to getting Ellie out of there.

I really liked the ending. It was interesting to play as someone who doesn't emerge as a hero, the saviour of humanity, and instead is consistent and remains true to his characterisation to the very end.