Just Beat the Game... Wanna Talk About it? SPOILERS

@filipholm: That's actually a pretty good point. Joel doesn't ever bring up the idea until that happens. It's kinda like the giraffes managed to make life in the new world happen, so why can't people do the same without vaccinating the fungus?

That was a great ending. I'm not sure I would have made those decisions Joel made but I think it's great the game went down that road. I'm also not sure I want a Last of Us 2.

EDIT:

You know, actually what this game's ending reminded me of was Prince of Persia (2008). And I loved that ending too. Both characters made decisions that put the larger world at harm because they couldn't let someone close to them go. Though Joel's motives are further explored and makes much better sense in context. But I love that both do the unexpected not just for video game stories but just stories in general.

@jasonr86 said:

Man, I loved Prince of Persia 2008 too! Especially that ending!

That game gets a bad wrap.

Gets a bad wrap by assholes if you ask me.

@jasonr86: :D

When it comes to The Last of Us, that whole final sequence tore me open and it actually took me a day to come around. Now I absolutely love it.

@selfconfessedcynic:

I just beat it so at first I wasn't really sure how I felt about it. I'm still thinking about it now. But I do really like it. When I was in the surgeon's room I had the same feeling I had when I walked down the hallway to the pedestal in 'that one game' where I was saying things in my head like 'What? Wait, I don't, I just. What?' It's awesome when a story can get that sort of reaction out of me.

@jasonr86 said:

Haha, I've never played OoT (I assume that's what you're talking bout) - I've just never been much of a Nintendo person (unless you count Pokemon).

But in this case, the moments following opening that door to the surgery are some of my most cherished ever now. Mainly because while I was doing it through him, internally I was screaming at him to turn back.

But then, after the fact, I had to consider the disconnect between what we all do every day in games (ie, it's so easy to do the right thing when all you are doing is pushing forward on a thumb stick, or hitting the right trigger in Mass Effect), but if I were a "father"? If I were asked to sacrifice literally the only thing in the world I love?

Yeah. It's even being asked to consider something like that that makes me love this game.

The best thing though is it usually takes a while to cement those feelings within one's self before you can truly either appreciate or make peace with that ending. Some people just don't or can't make that connection and will hate it. I wish you luck in your soul searching :D

Yeah definitely not. I'm curious about the DLC because i'm guessing that story was written alongside the original game. But a sequel or a prequel would diminish what made this game so cool. Plus I want Naughty Dog to keep making new IP's. I'm pretty sure TLOU sold well enough to prove that sequels arent the only cash cows.

@reisz: Excellent write up, and exactly how I interpreted the ending. That last exchange is just so perfect because it shows the incredible trust and bond they've developed for each other by the end of the journey. I thought it was the perfect ending to an incredible story, and whatever happens next is entirely up to the players imagination.

woah, I'm surprised so many people think Winter was the best part of the game.

I hated that part. All I wanted was to know how Joel was doing, and instead I had to spend the next hour or so hunting a fucking deer and going through some annoying combat scenarios.

But thankfully, almost everything after that was awesome.

I think that showed exactly Joel's character. He never really saw her as a "partner" but rather as a daughter. Sarah's death has made him very overprotective and that's what is being shown all the time. Already at the beginning of the game when he meets Ellie he always says "Be careful", "Watch your step" etc. and also how hesitant he is with giving her any sort of weapon.

In the end it was exactly the same, he thought the little girl, after all she has gone through, couldn't make such a horrible decision and that's why he made the decision for her. It's the typical lie like when a father says to his child "Your dog didn't die, he has gone to a better place." to make the world look better to that child.

He said "They don't need you for the cure, everything is alright, we are going home." because he thought he had to. If that is the right decision is questionable but that's how Joel is.

It's been a little over five hours since I have finished the game, and I am so emotionally drained that I can't truly relax and fall asleep, so I'll chime in with my two cents here:

Joel is perhaps the most sympathetic dick in the history of entertainment, not just video games. Winter emotionally drained me, and I was physically drained from being so on-edge the entire last hour of it. And even though the two narrowly got out of the situation (again), it was obvious the roles had changed as soon as Spring had started and Ellie was so distant. Joel had grown to love Ellie, while David had forced Ellie to be shown true horror.

One thing that I feel is overlooked in Ellie's "transformation" to happy-go-lucky girl to hardened woman, was that during her encounter with David, her fear she mentioned to Sam had come true. Before he (assumedly) tried to rape her (after all, one of his henchmen told Joel that Ellie was his new "pet"), she was truly alone in this world. Despite Joel being on the brink of death for months, she had someone to come back home to. Without the knowledge that Joel was ok, and while trying to narrowly escape a harrowing fate, Ellie transformed into what Joel use to be.

Meanwhile, Joel transformed to the hardened man who would do anything to survive, to the hardened man who would do anything to keep Ellie alive. After Tess, she was his lone bright spot in this otherwise destroyed society, and it's understandable why a man would be selfish in trying to keep the one thing he had left in the world (his complicated history with his brother destroyed their relationship), even if it put the future of mankind at risk. He is a man who was driven by loyalty to those he cared for (destroying his relationship with his brother ("I kept us alive." "It wasn't worth it."), promising Tess to finish the job, etc.).

Someone on these forums pointed it out before (sorry for not giving you credit, you mysterious person), but it was a great point: Even though Joel knew Ellie wanted to finish the journey (no more half measures), she would never known she they had reached the Fireflies, and she would have been the cure. Her last memory would have been of Joel trying to save her as she drowned, and I think that is part of the reason he was so adamant about getting her back. To our knowledge, they never discussed what would happen if Ellie's death meant a cure, so he made the decision for her, for better or worse. In my eyes, at the end of the game, she knows this, but accepts the decision he made (and the lies he tells her) because she knows it was all to protect her life.

This story is so perfect on so many levels. For the first time ever, after showing her the prologue, my girlfriend would actively sit down and be interested in what I was playing. She would say "I don't like this game," but she would keep watching. It's a haunting love story of a man and a girl, and one that I hope will leave it's mark on the medium for years to come.

(Sorry if it's rambly. It's 2:38am and I'm tired.)

Great ending! I thought it was funny how everyone in the game keeps asking or trying to force Joel to make sacrifices "for the greater good of humanity.". Oh really? The greater good? When was that ever demonstrated to be true (in this game)?

All I saw was a bunch of assholes. Oh yeah man, we have to shoot you and your daughter to make these other people safe. Hey, drop what you're doing and take this package across country, because you know, feeling and stuff. Sorry dude no choice got to cut into her brain suck it up.

So happy when he flipped the world double middle fingers and blasted his way out. Everyone earned their fucked up brain fungus.

@choffy said:

I interpreted it differently - Ellie asks Joel to take full responsibility for this decision. She just told him how her survivor's guilt is wrecking her brain, that would be just another layer of guilt. She knows Joel is full of shit and he knows that there's no way she bought the story - so when she asks him to swear to her, she's not giving him a chance to come clean, she's not asking him to lie to her because the truth is too much, she's essentially saying "I can't live with that much on my hands, I understand why you've done it, just please, take the whole burden". His "I swear" means "we'll never talk about it again and none of it will ever be your fault".

I wish games took advantage of gameplay death for endings more often. For example, in Spec Ops: The Line... there was an ending where if you died, that was it. Your ending was you bleeding to death on the floor. If you survived, you received a much better ending. If the Last of Us had the same concept, IMAGINE how intense the ending would have been. Of course, surviving the onslaught of enemy soldiers would have resulted in the original ending we've received. The death ending though... I guess that's up to our imagination.

The sense of dread the game put on you throughout it's entirety was great. As I progressed I was just waiting for something horrible to go wrong. I really liked the storyline with Sam and the concerns of "grouping" up with other survivors and just what it means to let your guard down.

I definitely enjoyed the game and really felt the story and cut scenes are what drove me through continuing the game. I'd say right around the time of breaking into the Colorado Lab was where I decided to set the difficulty down to Easy and just enjoy the ride.

I was waiting for some typical ending with one of the characters dying, so I was really surprised with how they wrapped everything up with the Fireflies and going back to the Dam. Overall, enjoyable. The multiplayer isn't bad either.

Something occurred to me the other day. Joel and Ellie spend almost an entire year together and during that time, Joel never teaches Ellie how to swim? That's kinda fucked up. I get that there isn't exactly a lot of "down time" in the post apocalypse, but considering how often they had to cross bodies of water you'd think that Joel could make time. Shit, the first time Ellie fell into a body of water, I would have made that a priority.

But the thing is, they were never just messing around somewhere, they always had a goal to reach pretty quickly (even though of course the gameplay doesn't give you a time limit but within the story they probably wanted to get there as fast as possible). And how were either of them supposed to know that they would have to go through several more swimming passages?

That didn't really struck me when playing the game.

That's kind of my point though, they didn't know. That's why you make it a priority.

i only had one problem with the game, its all about stealth if you want to, and you could avoid the enemy's if you wanted to, which is great and all that but one scene when your approving the hospital, with all the clickers and what not. i stealthed my way though all of them and the 2 floaters feeling like a boss since i always failed at stealthing pretty fast. got the to end where i needed to get on top of a tipped over bus, and as soon as i tried every floater/bloater or what ever they are called, clicker and what not was on my ass even though they could not see or hear me. the only way i could get past them was to kill each and every one of them. and i might have miss understood something about the clickers but from what i had gathered if i stood perfectly still diddent make a sound and was not to close to them they could not see me, but every time i threw a bottle or a brick they would chase after me instead of the object. and for some reason they walked way to sporadic, i tried to crawl very slowly towards them to shank them but every time i got all most close enough to do so they would turn on a dime and insta kill me. so i ended up just grabbing my shotgun every time i saw them standing at a narrow pass and call attention to my self and take them out that way. or rarely use a molotov, on them since they chased the sound of that one just fine considering everything else.

about the ending, i really thought you would get to choose if you wanted to save her or the entire human race, but im glad that you diddent get that choice. i just found it kinda annoying that i had to kill 2 doctors before i was allowed to free her since they did not resist me, i wanted to leave them alive since they really diddent pose a threat, they just did what they thought was the right thing, but was not willing to risk there lives for it. i felt like everybody its left me with the choice of them or me. not its really not that important.

@thebarrylad welcome, just by reading your post i can tell that im going to like you

I just finished it. The main issue with the game for me is that the combat feels like a chore. Fighting bandits and soldiers was okay at best but dealing with the infected was the worst. I should have played on easy.

I would have liked to have a choice for the ending. I did not like having to kill at least one surgeon and a couple of elite soldiders. The whole game was so linear, I would have enjoyed a bit of actual role playing to go with the stat building and weapon upgrades.

But holy damn is that game good looking and polished. There is a LOT of level design and prop building in that game. The winter part looked amazing.

Jesus christ, you guys. This game had such a huge turnaround in storytelling quality from beginning to end. I just gotta do a little checklist here, because i've got way too much to talk about for a rant;

1) Now; that initial premise. Ellie the "only immune"? The "cure for humanity"? The "potential salvation of the human race"? I thought that was trite as hell, and it really put me off of the story. Not because it's a horrible setup neccesarily, but it's so obvious and dumb, like this assumption that gamers couldn't handle a game that isn't about saving the world. I mean I totally turned around on it in the closing section of the game, but man did that not jive with me. Anyone else feel the same?

2) I think Clickers are bad for the game, in a general sense. I understand why they're there, but when it's a room filled with them I feel like my options just went from being open and interesting to "just sneak around, if you do anything else you'll die".

3) The Henry and Sam deaths ruined me. The fact that they immediately preceded it with one of their most friendly scenes was a real boot to the face.

4) The bandit raid at Tommy's camp... why? Seemed like the most gamey plotpoint of the whole thing, that in the middle of nowhere a gang of bandits just stumbled into his well-defended plant directly behind Joel and shot everyone up. I would've preferred a smaller, more personal segment and then the Ellie-running-off section.

5) The ending of Fall, wow. The game leading me on that they had just killed off the player character blew me away, perhaps being one of the most astounding plot twists i've seen in a game. It's not just a huge narrative change, but it's fundamentally shaking everything we establish about games ("In a story-based game, the protagonist always makes it to the end because they're the player character"). Sure, we later find out he survived, but they alluded to it with such skill that my jaw was on the floor.

6) I loved that they managed to set up everything (without giving it away) that Joel would end up being an overprotective monster. I never really considered how important Ellie became to him over the course of the game, but when it all started clicking and he was mowing down doctors and nurses I couldn't help but applaud the game internally. Did anyone else get a really creepy vibe from Joel late-game, also? Mostly that after lying to Ellie, he starts making all these weird references to how she's just like his daughter, and she would've been his daughter's friend. He ceases rejecting his past as he did for most of the game, ceases even accepting his past as just something that happened; he becomes obsessed with his past, unable to let anything happen that might suggest a repeat episode. And back in reference to my first point, their willingness to go totally against the standard of "save the world" zombie narratives (consisting of A) self-sacrifice for saving humanity or B) a third option that saves humanity with no consequence) brought me right back around on Ellie as an immune. It made perfect sense, and I freaking loved it.

Good game 3/10

David is played by Nolan North, true story.

Hey guys, I remember hearing someone say you could shoot near the doctor in the operating room to scare him, leaving all 3 doctors alive. Does anyone have a video of this happening/can disprove it? Really want to know

Just finished it. Man, I did not expect that ending at all. Thought for sure he would give her up in the last moment. I "liked" it better this way though.

Also the Henry and Sam deaths were probably the most shocking and sad part(s) of the game. God damn. The Last of Us did such a good job of building you up just enough to think that things would be alright, and then just tearing you the fuck down.

If the game was just sad moment after sad moment I feel it would lose a lot of its power. Having the sad moments come after such high notes is something else and really drained me.

Also David is a creepy motherfucker. The part where he's just sitting by Ellie next to the fire and starts telling the story about the "crazy man and girl" killing his men... goddamn.

Man, that scene just blew it out of me. Not to make it a habit of comparing this game with The Road, Though McCormac's story does seem to have lend a little thing or two to the developers, but I was left with the same kind of feeling as when the Father and the Boy stumble upon that underground shelter of theirs. You just know that it is not going to last, and at best it only provides them with a temporary opportunity to forget about the horrors of their world.

When I played through the part, I was actually expecting the game to get Joel moving again. I like how you, as the player, essentially is left to decide for how long the pair will be lingering on to that precious scene.

On another scene of that game, was I the only one that literally shouted out when that kid revealed his bite to the audience? Furthermore, I was screaming at my TV when, then Ellie entered the room to check on him.

@conzed92: I know what you mean about waiting around. I stood on that roof after the giraffes for a really long time. I had the worst sense of dread the whole time.

I'm replaying the game right now, and it's actually really hard to do. The opposite paths Joel and Ellie's arcs take really depress me. Why did the apocalypse have to happen. :(

Yeah, The Last of Us can be just as indiscriminate in its killing as The Walking Dead. The game really managed to get under my skin when Henry and Sam died off, especially as one had just gone through one hell of a session to make it out and keep every one alive, and then, people just pass away. It is a rough game.

i was freaking out when joel fell on that spike. i was wishing i had a rewind or something, i really thought he was going to bite the big one! i was like nooooooo joel nooooooo! they really made you linger in there for awhile as you played as ellie. reminds me of that sexist article from the NYT's as the author said he was wishing joel would just die so it wasnt such a sexist game... guy has got problems, i would never want joel or ellie to die. one of the reasons i kinda didnt like the bioshock infinity ending, was really hoping they would of made it to paris, maybe an alternate ending?

this game couldn't have ended any better. I felt right beside Joel when he was told the surgery was going to kill Ellie. When the game cut me loose after the cut scenes, i went ballistic. No creeping around corners for this one. They're all gonna pay and i'm not going to let this happen.

Everyone saying sacrifice her for the greater good. To save humanity by killing a little girl, would be loosing our humanity all in the same instance. It brought me back to when Sarah was killed by that soldier. Kill the child so that others might live told me that right then is when humanity had fallen.

Joel might be a twisted man, but hes the only real person left.

I think is is very interesting how we can have such different views of the same game. By the end of it I loved the ending and I even liked Joel. If you listen to all the recorders around the hospital you can tell that there is no guarantee that they will be able to cure anything by killing Ellie. I felt relieved when Joel finally kills the firefly at the end, she claims she loved Ellie but was willing to kill her without even talking to Ellie about it.

By the final scene of the game I felt more for Joel than I expected. Even more than some of my friends as well. Joel does what needs to be done to survive. He had his daughter stolen from him and he has finally found someone to fill the void. The game doesn't need to have a perfect ending but I really liked the end of this one. Whatever ending they could come up with would never make anyone happy... I like that this lets us figure out how it ends for them ourselves.

I'm not sure they could really make a game out of it, but if anyone wants to see a really good "video game movie", it's the one where Joel arrives with Ellie to Tommy's town and Tommy, knowing Joel's lying based on his relationship with the Fireflies and knowing Ellie's immune, reacts to the knowledge Joel is lying. I'd love to see that play out any number of ways, infected or not and violence or not.

I have a feeling that this belongs here.

Overall, amazing game, I'm going for a second play through on the harder difficulties, just to see if the game changes in some ways, see if it makes you handle certain sections differently than I had before.

I loved the ending.

To have Ellie die to save humanity would have been the most predictable, and easiest, way to end the game. There's nothing to think about or discuss there; sacrificing the self for the good of the many has been done again, and again, and again.

Civilization had already devolved back to survival of the fittest. Killing a child without even running it by her was a foregone conclusion to these people. Sometimes the ends don't justify the means, and if you have to lose your humanity to save humanity, what's the point? What are you saving when humans are just another animal without a moral compass guiding them?

The game world leading up to the end was colored with shades of grey, as all of the characters had their own reasons for doing morally questionable things. This includes what Joel does at the end by saving Ellie, then lying to her.

To instead end it with some kind of altruistic sacrifice of a child that brings humans back from the brink into a new golden age would not have fit the tone of the story at all.

I thought this was one of the best games ever, and that it had one of the best endings ever. I think Joel is one of the greatest morally ambiguous characters I've ever encountered in anything. I loved the ending, yes Joel did a terrible thing by killing the fireflies and taking away a hope for a cure, but when I think about my nieces, I know I would have done the same thing to save one of them, just less competently. I also would have told the same lie he did at the end. The choice to end the game with that lie and Ellie's acceptance of it was brilliant. The game could have ended as they drove out of Salt Lake City, or with them reuniting with Tommy, but instead it ended with this deeply personal moment.

Also, unlike a lot of people, I thought the gameplay was fun, and as soon as I finished it, I started a second playthrough on survivor.

Finished it last night and I absolutely loved it. I played it on hard my first play through. Mostly I wanted the experience to go on as long as possible and get a stiff challenge out of it. Spacing the play sessions over the course of several days helps with that as well. The game play took a bit getting use to but by the end I was dispatching fools at my own pace often. Focused most of my upgrades on shotgun, bow, holsters, and pistol. I ended up with full item stacks towards the end of the game so I felt comfortable just using bombs and molotovs when 'evs. Hardest enemy to kill was probably multiple Clickers while everything else was pretty easy to deal with.

The story was consistently punching me in the gut and the character performances captivated me in a way that most games can't. I have avoided everything about this game after the first teaser. Glad I didn't get spoiled before finishing. The ending was solid I thought but I almost don't want a sequel. At the same time I never want these characters to die, as hopeless as that sounds. Naughty Dog has done it again and made a nearly flawless story experience in a video game. This makes a case for stealth/survival games being fantastic when done right. I can't wait to see what that team can do on the next gen platforms.

I actually thought this game was going to be like I AM ALIVE meaning that it was just post apocalypse. I was happy to find out at the very start that its actually an infection like 28 days later or actually more like I am Legend the book where the infection is in the dust and sand.

I think ND did a brilliant job with their choice of story in this. I love the idea of it being a fungal infection caused by spores. Just seems more realistic to me.

@kear: Those are exactly my thoughts. Is the game just as fun on the 2nd play through? I have actually never played a complete story like this game more than once. Let me know

I do not think this game was deserving of a perfect score or nearly as much praise as it's received. The story was so cookie cutter and the characters were so beyond flat, I liked Ellie, I think Joel was boring and kind of poorly voiced? I know it's Troy Baker but sometimes he sounded like a hick and other times he had no accent at all. I liked Tess for the hour she was alive and Ellie like I said. I didn't get choked up or cry once in this game because I just felt no attachment whatsoever to anyone but Ellie, I kind of started to have feels when Joel straight faced fuckin lied to her and crushed her whole purpose but that was the only moment in the entire game lol, I cried like a baby with Bioshock infinite.

I felt like the level design was ruined by the existence of a cover system, turning a corner to see what is clearly a combat zone was SO jarring after walking through a torn up neighborhood and sifting through old houses just to walk around a corner and see a dozen cars all placed horizontal obviously telegraphing to you "hey it's time for shootin' dudes again!"

Once you get impaled and you get to play as Ellie in the snow, that's when the game mostly picked up for me and I started to like it, hunting the deer was fun and I liked the time spent with the cannibal although the wave based shootout again completely fucking ruined what could have been a great narrative moment, instead of chilling with this guy and talking to learn more about both characters, HERES MORE GUYS TO SHOOT! It was another awful moment in a mostly middling game to me. I absolutely LOVED every minute of the game from the moment Ellie's captured by the cannibals to the moment you escape, that snow level was gorgeous! It was the only part of the game I felt looked amazing(note I'm a PC focused guy.) So yeah I liked playing as Ellie, I think a game where you play as her that's ACTUALLY focused on survival and isn't just a third person shooter where ammo is kinda rare would be totally awesome.

One last thing, why wasn't there a single female enemy in the entire game? Am I the only one who found this odd? No female hunters, not even any female soldiers with the fireflies? Even though one of their higher ups is a woman? That seemed really ridiculous to me and I don't understand why they would have made that choice.

I think it would have been a better ending had Ellie seen Joel's lie or Joel not being able to swear to her there in the last bit and Ellie just turned around and walked away or something, her believing that there were 12 other people exactly like her and that they stopped looking for a cure? Seemed a bit much to me after they spent what a year trying to make it there and going through hell and back and she didn't even bother to question the fact that she went under for surgery but they did nothing?

EDIT forgot she was out from nearly drowning but wouldn't she have woken up when they performed CPR on her?

So... I guess my overall reaction to this game is that the narrative is strong, but as a whole it isn't as good as it should have been. Too many idiotic "puzzle" sections; the roles that the enemies play in the combat scenarios are, overall, just uninteresting and conventional; and the stealth is kind of laughable. I think the combat mechanics are fantastic, the game can be brutal and unforgiving, but the enemies and the scenarios they created didn't take advantage of it.

These all sound negative, but I think the game is great. I was genuinely shocked by some of the events in the story, although Tess's death was handled poorly. They didn't do enough to make me care about her; seriously, she could have lived and the game would have been exactly the same.

That is my reaction to the single-player. The multiplayer, though -- holy hell. It's FANTASTIC. It's one of the most intense multiplayer experiences I have ever had. It just left me wondering what the single-player could have been like with ai that wasn't completely useless. Seriously, the multiplayer is amazing, go play it, like now.

Just beat it last night. Killer ending. I actually think you could argue that Bioshock Infinite was "darker" in that that game says 'you're a piece of shit and always will be and will always make the same mistake', whereas I think Joel does something very selfish but distinctly human. Moreover, there are hopeful elements at the end with Tommy's flourishing city. And might Ellie be able to pass on the immunity genetically at some point? (Though I assume the infection would be sexually transmitted.)

Someone on the Rev3 spoilercast called Joel a "likeable villain", which I think is a really interesting point. You/Joel have killed a lot of people. You aren't Nathan Drake (or Insert Videogame Hero). Joel is a character with human flaws, something I don't think you see in many videogames. You've also indoctrinated Ellie into a life of extreme (but perhaps necessary?) violence. One of the most brilliant moments in the game was when you hear David's men talking about making sure "the kids" are safe. There is more going on with David's community than just a bunch of evil bad guys like in Pittsburgh and Nolan North was really great as David. David's a good foil for Tommy/Maria.

I really loved how so much was implied or left unsaid. Like how Joel never told Bill that Tess had died. How Joel/Tess's relationship is not explicit. How Joel won't talk about his wife. There are a few story beats you could criticize (Ellie knowing how to inject penicillin; Fireflies immediately trying to remove Ellie's brain), but I don't think those sorts of critiques are ultimately meaningful or relevant to the larger story/themes at hand.

Additionally, I never had much of a problem with friendly AI. They pretty much always stayed hidden. Also I really loved how you often didn't know where the exit to an area was. It was a tad frustrating at times, but really lended a lot to the tension and the game's realness.

Just an immaculately put together game and I thought that the story and gameplay meshed extremely well. Looking forward to playing through it again on Survivor and see if I catch anything I didn't notice the first time.

@bishop113: I'll play devil's advocate to you and ask, who says Ellie believed Joel's lie? Just because she says "OK" doesn't mean she can't be lying too. In fact as you pointed out, after all their time together it's very probable she knows he's lying. Furthermore, the game has proven her shrewd enough to know that if Joel says it didn't work out at the hospital, SOMETHING must have been wrong with the fireflies, even if he lied about the specifics. She would have to know that he was trying to protect her, regardless of if he tells her the truth. She woke up in a surgery gown so hopefully she has reached some conclusions on her own (but maybe I'm giving her too much credit).

In addition, Ellie has just confessed her guilt over her friend dying from a bite while she (Ellie) survived. This late game revelation is there for a reason, and I think it's trying to suggest how guilty she could be knowing she could have cured humanity but it didn't happen. A previous poster in this thread said it best that Joel lying to her COULD, COULD be his way of telling her that it's not her fault if no cure is ever found and that they don't ever need to talk about what happened again. Joel does not lay humanities fate at her feet and say "Yeah I lied sorry you really could have been the cure but I fucking shot all those doctors so..." =D

Ellie saying "OK" doesn't have to mean that she believes Joel when he said there were dozens of others and the cure didn't work out...it could simply mean she is acknowledging that some shit went down and that the past is the past. Just a thought, I hope you get what I was saying as I think it makes a much more plausible (and thoughtful) end to believe that there is a mutual understanding between Joel and Ellie rather than Ellie blindly accepting his lie (which as you said is kinda hard to accept!)

From reading many (not all) of the posts in the thread it's great how everyone really seems to enjoy the game as a whole and the ending is really challenging people's expectations for what they hoped for and wanted from the ending! Halfway through the game I told myself that if both these characters survived I would be shocked and consider it a happy ending, and like so many others I'm not sure I feel that is what I got by the end! Great game :)

I seem to be in the minority here, but I didn't think the ending, or the game's overall story, was good. It kind of reminded me of my reaction to the movie Gladiator. Most of the people I know who saw that movie, thought it was great, I on the other hand, found it to be extremely predictable and dull (i actually fell asleep 3 times while watching it(only for a few minutes each time)). Anywho, like that movie, I found the story to be predictable. I knew from about the part after Tommy's town that he wasn't going to go through with the mission, and this assumption made the rest of the game seem drawn out. That combined with all cliche scenarios... well, i just didn't like it. I was hoping it would turn around in the end, and end with something meaningful or profound, but instead, it was just a mediocre scene where Joel lies to Ellie.

Also I found the game's pacing to be predictable in the sense that i knew that it was alternating between infected sections, and human sections. So if i just fought some infected, i knew that i would soon be fighting some humans. I was rather hoping that there would be more environment pieces like the intro... but there weren't. The game was fun, but i have no interest in playing it ever again.

Alright, well, i have voiced my opinion on the matter, an opinion that isn't shared by many, so i'll prolly won't say it again.

@moztacular: Maybe she didn't believe his lie, I agree with you that I suspect she didn't but whichever way I look at it, I find it a little hard to believe I guess? If she didn't believe him and knew he was lying, why would she just accept that? Maybe I'm underestimating the newly forged father/daughter bond but the story she told about her friend turning while she did not, in my opinion should have superseded her new relationship with Joel and any mutual understanding she may have had with his lies. As she mentions she lost friends on this journey and it was a very long journey and to think that she would just accept that Joel lied to her, especially with how ridiculous the lie was seems just as over the top as it would be for her to have believed him.

But like I said maybe I'm not giving their relationship enough credit.

True most games out there are predictable to a fault. and the whole infected then hunter then infected did seem predictable. but as far as games go they really did throw some good punches in there. main one being henry and sam for me. even the start got me! love the game like i did the walking dead which also was well predictable but did throw some good punches that made you cringe and just go WTF!? i think TLOU did it best but kinda left the ending 2 open ended. perhaps some DLC is the reason?

"ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!?" -Gladiator hehe

@bishop113: I see what you mean, throughout the game you get used to Ellie kind of pushing the issue and not just taking everyone at their word so the game ends leaving you wondering if she would push the issue some more. Whether she believes his lie or not, you still kind of expect her to press for more details. I guess they decided to end it there so the player can speculate about what could happen next.

Do they walk down to town and continue to develop and foster this surrogate father/daughter relationship? Or does Ellie bring the whole thing up again 5 minutes after the credits start rolling as they are walking down towards the town? =D

If there is never a sequel to answer any questions, then you can always imagine that like 10-15 years down the line Ellie brings it up and maybe Joel tells her what really happens and.....???

Just finished the game and it fucking bummed me out. I guess that was pretty much what they're going for though. Combat got pretty tedious halfway through and after the ending I don't think I'll ever pick this up again.

I'm a little weirded out by how some of you are trying to morally justify Joel's lie. Yes it's meant to be an ambiguous daughter--Joel is projecting the love of his surrogate daughter over the whole of humanity--Yes, it might be what a "parent" might do--it doesn't make it any less fucked up, and the moment that you control Ellie during the final are one of the more uncomfortable moments I've ever experience in the game. Joel going on about how Ellie and Sarah would like each other was just so damn creepy.

It's not just fucked up because Joel goes on a massive killing spree to save Ellie (though I think the reason why people seem not to have a problem with Joel's lie and his actions are because the rampage is depicted no differently than any of the other mini-rampages enacted by the player through the game); it's because he decides to ruin the very thing that has bonded them in the first place--complete and total trust. Ellie does not want a father figure, someone she can hide behind and be protected; she wants a friend, an equal. Why else do you think she was upset when Joel wouldn't let her use a gun? Ellie's "okay" isn't done out of complete love, and it certainly isn't her believing the lie wholesale, her "okay" is out of complete resignment. If she acknowledges the lie, then she loses the only person in world that cares for her. Basically, Joel has put Ellie in a position where she has no power, all because of his own selfish need to revive his own daughter through Ellie. It doesn't matter if it makes him "human." It's still incredibly messed up. The fact that I understand why both parties did what they did somehow makes it even worse.