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#1 Edited by Bleaney (1 posts) -

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#2 Edited by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

It just sounds like more of the silliness promoters say about "Game of the Year" and "Ultimate" editions. Whether they're much better or not isn't the point. It's to get more of that sweet, sweet cash with the content they've already produced.

I don't think there's anything particularly special here. It's just a version of the game for new consoles hyped up in the same weird way they hyped the original console version.

#3 Posted by The_Nubster (2047 posts) -

You're right about one thing: these developers are very bad at making me feel okay playing their pretty awesome game.

#4 Posted by Tom_omb (337 posts) -

Nothing about those comments suggest any think about making her a "doll". They can't talk about the graphical improvements of their character model without being considered sexist just because their character is female? I think this hyper sensitivity to female representation has gone much too far.

#5 Posted by Veektarius (4601 posts) -

Skin is an area where graphical technology has greatly improved in the past few years and it's been used to great effect in PC games. It is not dumb or sexist that someone should draw attention to it being a benefit of the new consoles as well.

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#6 Posted by Manhattan_Project (2119 posts) -

Yet another example of people reading way way too much into simple comments.

#8 Posted by Demoskinos (14562 posts) -

@bleaney: Its only creepy if you make it creepy dude. She is the protagonist of th game of course they are going to obsess over her she is the one thing you see more than any other.

#9 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4594 posts) -

@veektarius said:

Skin is an area where graphical technology has greatly improved in the past few years and it's been used to great effect in PC games. It is not dumb or sexist that someone should draw attention to it being a benefit of the new consoles as well.

You're right, of course, but the phrasing is weird without the context of video.

Which now that I think about it, is how a lot of these "ew sexism" controversies start. Without context, I mean.

#10 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

I mean it is creepy but so is any other mostly male set of developers making a female character. The initial design of Lara Croft in 1996 is probably the creepiest.

#11 Posted by TrafalgarLaw (1039 posts) -

Lara just can't catch a break with you guys. First it was the "controversial" rape scene, then the dissonance of becoming a violent murderer through neccesity but crying for a deer, now the new face & skin tone.

No, the skin of a person is the mirror of the soul that resides within. Can't believe you barbarians couldn't pick up on that reference.

#13 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3753 posts) -

@manhattan_project said:

Yet another example of people reading way way too much into simple comments.

Yep. I find it amazing how caught up people get in what is said to market games, in the media or advertisements. Who cares.

@fredchuckdave said:

I mean it is creepy but so is any other mostly male set of developers making a female character. The initial design of Lara Croft in 1996 is probably the creepiest.

It definitely used to be creepy.

Now I find Lara badass. I really liked how it went. I get she pretty quickly is doing some crazy business, but they did a solid job and I thought in the end she was a badass female character, which was nice to see. The violence I actually appreciated, it made me feel real tension at times and yes, it ramped up how tough as nails Lara became. It was a lot like Dead Space and used similar tactics at times. A game Brad loves but criticizes Tomb Raider for doing the same things, like the extreme death animations.

It also reminded me of something like Kill Bill. But games also get overeactions to extreme content, in my mind. I like that a few games have made violence unpleasant to look at lately.

#14 Posted by joshwent (2114 posts) -

@tom_omb said:

Nothing about those comments suggest any think about making her a "doll". They can't talk about the graphical improvements of their character model without being considered sexist just because their character is female?

Yep. I remember a few years ago all the console graphical excitement was about real time sweat on athletes in sports games. Yet not one mention was made about it being creepy or "objectifying" them because they were all male (and also that argument is ridiculous). I can only imagine the twitter fury and polygon articles we'd be lambasted with if a dev these days was focused on real time sweat on women.

If Lara was a guy, this thread wouldn't exist.

#15 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3753 posts) -

@joshwent said:


If Lara was a guy, this thread wouldn't exist.

I really couldn't agree more. They made a strong female character. She goes through some gruesome situations... again no one gave a fuck when Resident Evil 4 or Deadspace showed male characters getting killed off so violently.

They did have the attempted rape, but Lara came out of it. It showed how dire the situation was and the fact that she makes it out of all of it showed her as a badass, to me.

The only thing that took it away a bit to me was the supernatural business at the end, but oh well. And either way, I liked how it didn't matter she was a woman. That's real progressive to me. Not that it hasn't been done in movies and stuff but they did it well here too.

#16 Edited by hermes (1376 posts) -

Yeah... I agree with the general consensus. The quotes only seem creepy because they are out of context, and we apply our own baggage of the character to them... With the proper context (like the video), it sounds like it is: a bunch of technical guys geeking out about their new toys for rendering their characters realistically.

I mean, the first quote is no different than when people talked about how Arkham's Batman suit degraded as the story progressed, and no one has but praise for it.

#17 Posted by BenderUnit22 (1447 posts) -

Remember when Lara was this badass female protagonist / video game icon until people decided she was a sexist doll all these perverted gamers masturbated to so they tried to make her into a badass protagonist and caught flak for being pandering...

#18 Edited by Yummylee (21259 posts) -

I frankly don't see why everyone keeps paying so much attention to what is ultimately a pretty generic character. I guess it's because she's a generic action game female character, as opposed to the dozen varieties of generic action game male characters, which only points out to how few female protagonists there are in general. But still, everything to do with the story and characters (including Lara) were easily the weakest part of the game.

#19 Posted by csl316 (8114 posts) -

I'm glad they tried something new in these versions. They got into what developing a character can be like when they're not hampered by the last-gen consoles.

I think the whole experience will make a current-gen sequel better, at least visually. Good practice, if anything.

#20 Posted by AlexanderSheen (4929 posts) -

Nice Fox News segment imitation you got there, buddy. Fair and balanced indeed!

The guy in the video is talking about technical stuff, this is a non issue.

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#21 Posted by xite (775 posts) -

If you want to talk gross and off-putting marketing there's an ad running on the site currently exclaiming "2014's Hottest MMORPG - Collect Sexy Angels". It makes those developers sound tame in comparison.

I do think that they tried to force the whole "empathy" angle a little much. They didn't need to drive a stake through her gut for the player to empathize with her plight. But then again it's just a video game, right?

#22 Edited by Onomatopoeia (101 posts) -

Remember when Lara was this badass female protagonist / video game icon until people decided she was a sexist doll all these perverted gamers masturbated to so they tried to make her into a badass protagonist and caught flak for being pandering...

Remember when no one give a shit about how a character looked and just played fucking video games? It seems so long ago.

#23 Edited by BoOzak (881 posts) -

I thought this thread was going to be about which Lara looked better. I'm going to pretend that's what it's about. I like the new Lara. She looks less like she's pouting all the time. I hope they go further with making her look less weak in future iterations. It made sense in this game though.

#24 Posted by geirr (2476 posts) -

Her face and/or skin isn't what stopped me from playing through this game.

#25 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (2569 posts) -

The story and tone of the new Tomb Raider has always been a bit gross to me. I am truly puzzled when the developers at Crystal D pat themselves on the back for that game. It is hardly a game I would like to be associated with, than again people praise games like Bioshock Infinite too.

People are blind to the meaning or world view their games present to them. It has reached the point where a game about the fascism (just under a different name) could win GOTY or a game that promotes racism will be praised for being deep. This trend of "who cares what games say as long as they are fun" is pretty pathetic and reflects badly on gamers.

#26 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3753 posts) -

The story and tone of the new Tomb Raider has always been a bit gross to me. I am truly puzzled when the developers at Crystal D pat themselves on the back for that game. It is hardly a game I would like to be associated with, than again people praise games like Bioshock Infinite too.

People are blind to the meaning or world view their games present to them. It has reached the point where a game about the fascism (just under a different name) could win GOTY or a game that promotes racism will be praised for being deep. This trend of "who cares what games say as long as they are fun" is pretty pathetic and reflects badly on gamers.

what in the world...

#27 Posted by Brake (1088 posts) -

Did they make her face clean? I only play games with clean faces.

#28 Posted by Onomatopoeia (101 posts) -

This trend of "who cares what games say as long as they are fun" is pretty pathetic and reflects badly on gamers.

And the trend of "who cares about gameplay when the story is good" is bad for the industry.

#29 Posted by joshwent (2114 posts) -

@monkeyking1969: (this trend of ranting in a thread that has nothing to do with what you're upset about reflects badly on gamers.)

#30 Posted by GaspoweR (2807 posts) -

@bleaney: Its only creepy if you make it creepy dude.

Yep, pretty much summed up my thoughts right there. Though calling this game the "DEFINITIVE GAME OF THE GENERATION FOR THE NEW GENERATION OF GAMES EDITION EDITION" is kinda dumb though....maybe the kind of dumb I can get behind. :D

#31 Posted by JasonR86 (9608 posts) -

Don't you mean 'The Definitive Laura'?

#32 Posted by GaspoweR (2807 posts) -

@jasonr86 said:

Don't you mean 'The Definitive Laura'?

OH DAMMIT SOMEONE CALLED HER NAME WRONG...AGAIN...

#33 Posted by GnaTSoL (791 posts) -

Yet another example of people reading way way too much into simple comments.

#34 Posted by TriBeard (124 posts) -

@brake: I'm beginning to think skyrim/bethesda memes and jokes are making a bigger impact on the gaming community than there games. lol

#35 Posted by Wolfgame (695 posts) -

I would be frustrated if I had worked on this game, not because it's lacking in quality, but think about the headaches you could have avoided by not calling it tomb raider and putting in an uncharted style male character. A sad situation where you are damned for trying to portray a powerful leading female character. Game industry and surrounding community needs to make up its mind and recognize that these are characters created by game designers, they aren't supposed to represent anything beyond a persons own creative determination. Feels like movies and comic books can do what they want and we just keep getting more and more bogged down in political correctness. I just find it frustrating because we are approaching a point where it is no longer ok to just agree to disagree, I somehow have to assume a label of sexist pig because I have the ability to discern between reality and fiction. Why cant there exist room in fiction for unrealistic portrayals of both male and female characters?

#36 Posted by phantomzxro (1565 posts) -

@bleaney: I sort of feel like you are looking at this the wrong way. I don't think this is in the same vein has them saying " We increased her breast size by a third" with a straight face or anything. This is more of tech people trying to make character models look more realistic for tech fans. Lara's model is the only one being reworked which is why all the talk will be about her character model. So i don't really see anything wrong with it, they just want people to see the work put into it.

#37 Posted by Fattony12000 (7053 posts) -

Definite Laura.

#38 Edited by crithon (3081 posts) -

@wolfgame: hmmmm, The problem is tomb raider is this series that since DAY ONE, everyone said "Indiana Jones with Boobs." And we are still not even 20 years later and there isn't a clear unidentifiable aspect of her that just gets marketed heavier then the gameplay. It's hard to not be cynical about Tomb Raider because it's this heavily marketed franchise that always hits a low demograph. And it's not "teenage boys" it's this weird audience who's casual and want to think of her sell a car. Because at this point it'd be nice to have a key characteristic that made lara lara.

#39 Posted by DonutFever (3550 posts) -

Malibu Stacy, with NEW hat.

#40 Posted by LiquidPrince (15843 posts) -

Yeah, it's just you.

#41 Posted by Brendan (7687 posts) -

This seems silly. Those dev comments do not appear to contain anything objectionable.

#42 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

@artisanbreads: Yeah I didn't really have any problem with the character in the new Tomb Raider either.

#43 Posted by buft (3301 posts) -

@bleaney: Its only creepy if you make it creepy dude. She is the protagonist of th game of course they are going to obsess over her she is the one thing you see more than any other.

true bean, ovary sensitive in every way

#44 Edited by MormonWarrior (2541 posts) -

I loved the design in this game, and I really don't like the new face they've gone with in the Definitive Edition. I hope the PC version stays the same and doesn't get a forced update at some point...they did say that this version is PS4/Xbox One exclusive so there's hope I guess.

#45 Posted by Spoonman671 (4560 posts) -

If you can't hear about a character model's skin being realistic without thinking about sex, there is something wrong with you.

#46 Posted by joshwent (2114 posts) -
#47 Posted by Wolfgame (695 posts) -

If you can't hear about a character model's skin being realistic without thinking about sex, there is something wrong with you.

Had to dig through horseysurprise archives after reading your post.

Getting back on topic, I think that these initial quotes are being misinterpreted , the developers aren't complimenting Lara's model in a sexual context, they are commenting on what they were able to accomplish from the technology offered by the xbox one and ps4.

#48 Posted by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

@joshwent: Getting impaled 30 times is no deterrent to a successful pregnancy. Being a murdering psychopath might be though.

#49 Edited by Dixavd (1305 posts) -

I take it as just further pushing that Square Enix - especially Eidos Interactive developed games - don't have great English Speaking advertising. With the Hitman Absolution problems, the problems leading up to Tomb Raider's release (remember how they let the whole "there could be a rape scene"-thing get out of control) and now this in the post release.

I really liked Tomb Raider, and whoever they got as the Actress to base Lara's Character Model on is a very beautiful woman (and thus Lara turns out to be - who what have thought?!) but I don't think it's a great way to push their re-release. Plus, when I played it on the PC, the problem wasn't a lack of realism in the look of Lara (far from it - her character model was-and-still-is impressive) but of the relative inferiority of the character models of all the other characters. Bringing the other cast of characters to a fidelity closer to Lara would benefit the game much more than focusing on improving just Lara.

P.S. My Dad owns a cat called Lara and it's extremely weird saying that name in relation to Tomb Raider and thinking of a very fluffy, playful cat.

#50 Edited by ripelivejam (3543 posts) -

i'm kinda sad that all this controversy mired to a degree what was a damn fine action platformer.