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#1 Posted by -Cipher- (108 posts) -

Potential spoilers for previous Uncharted games!

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

The new Uncharted has been announced for a while now, and while the previous games have delivered spectacularly, this time, Nathan Drake isn't here. What will this mean for the series? What are your expectations and hope? Discuss them here.

Personally, i'm not ready to let go of Nate, he was the brave, funny everyday man adventurer, and I wonder who we'll get next, If Nate won't be the protagonist, i'd still like to see him get a role, whether as secondary character or a minor role, i'll just be happy to see him.

#2 Edited by MooseyMcMan (10559 posts) -

What I'd think would be a neat thing would be if you played as the Son of Drake, and Drake was now the "Sully" of the game, ie, the old guy that says dirty things every once in a while.

I wouldn't really be too upset if Drake only had a small cameo, or wasn't in it at all. He's a great character, but he's had his time in the sun. If this new game is the same "Drake and Elena have broken up but get together again by the end," I'll be disappointed.

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#3 Posted by -Cipher- (108 posts) -

@mooseymcman: I'm hoping it won't be like Ezio in the Assassins's creed series, they rode him out, but when they let him go, they haven't been able to replicate his success.

#4 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10559 posts) -

@-cipher-: Even after Amy Hennig left, I still have WAY more faith in Naughty Dog's ability to create a good protagonist than Ubisoft. And to be fair, Kenway in AC IV was a pretty good protagonist, even if he wasn't quite as good as Ezio.

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#5 Posted by -Cipher- (108 posts) -

@mooseymcman: Kenway was good, but Ezio was a GOD to the AC fanbase. Naughty dog has done very well with Joel, Ellie, Nate Drake, Sully. I can't even think of one bad character they've created (except Talbot, who people don't like for some reason). Here's to hoping for the best.

#6 Edited by NTM (7286 posts) -

@mooseymcman: Wait, Nathan Drake's not in it? I never heard that news.

#7 Posted by -Cipher- (108 posts) -

@ntm: He's not the protagonist, that's what we know for sure.

#8 Edited by NTM (7286 posts) -

@-cipher-: Can you show me proof? I'm wondering if it has been announced, or if its just an interpretation. I've only seen the trailer. The guy in the trailer is the bad guy talking I'm pretty sure.

#9 Posted by LiquidPrince (15856 posts) -

Where was it confirmed that Nate isn't the protagonist?

#10 Edited by -Cipher- (108 posts) -

@ntm: It's an interpretation from the teaser trailer. Perhaps I should rephrase my sentence. It's highly unlikely he's the protagonist.

#11 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10559 posts) -

@ntm: It's not confirmed, but rumored that he's at least not the protagonist. But you know, RUMORS.

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#12 Posted by NTM (7286 posts) -

@-cipher-: But it's the bad guy talking, not the main protagonist, at least it doesn't sound like the protagonist.

#13 Posted by -Cipher- (108 posts) -

@ntm: How do you know what the protagonist or the bad guy sounds like?

#14 Edited by NTM (7286 posts) -

@-cipher-: I'm interpreting by what the character sounds like, and I find it more plausible that that's the case. I'm surprised anyone would think the guy talking on the trailer is the protagonist... I mean, it could be, but that never crossed my mind. The character doesn't sound like the hero of the story, but maybe. It just seems to me like people are assuming so just because he voiced the trailer instead of Nolan. We've heard villains talk over trailers before, and perhaps Naughty Dog wants to reveal who the next foe is, showing his story and his motivations.

#15 Edited by Jeust (10487 posts) -

@ntm said:

@-cipher-: I'm interpreting by what the character sounds like, and I found it more plausible that that's the case. I'm surprised anyone would think the guy talking on the trailer is the protagonist... I mean, it could be, but that never crossed my mind.

I think that guy is the main villain. It has a bitterness more apropriate to an antagonist.

#16 Edited by -Cipher- (108 posts) -

@jeust: It's not like antagonists are born with a bad guy voice.

#17 Edited by Jeust (10487 posts) -

@-cipher- said:

@jeust: It's not like antagonists are born with a bad guy voice.

No, but there are feelings that prevalent for them. Bitterness and hate are among them. And unless the protagonist is Kratos or a character like him, it is not normal for the main character to have those kinds of feelings.

#18 Edited by MooseyMcMan (10559 posts) -

@jeust said:

@-cipher- said:

@jeust: It's not like antagonists are born with a bad guy voice.

No, but there are feelings that prevalent for them. Bitterness and hate are among them. And unless the protagonist is Kratos or a character like him, it is not normal for the main character to have those kinds of feelings.

I'd love it if Naughty Dog made a game where you played as the villain.

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#19 Edited by TrafalgarLaw (1061 posts) -

I think the series is running on fumes, tbh...I'm tired of Uncharted. I haven't finished 3 yet but I steered clear of spoilers but only ended up exhausting my drive to finish the game. I do hope they get back on track with new talent behind the wheel. Amy leaving doesn't mean the series will take a turn for the worse. l just want a Kart-racer.

#20 Posted by ll_Exile_ll (1481 posts) -

@-cipher- said:

@ntm: It's an interpretation from the teaser trailer. Perhaps I should rephrase my sentence. It's highly unlikely he's the protagonist.

Interpreting a brief trailer a certain way is one thing, but saying it's "highly unlikely" that Drake is the protagonist is not exactly accurate. It is a conclusion that could be reached based upon extremely small bits of info, but to say it's the likely scenario is vastly overstating the extent of information available. The truth is we don't know either way.

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#21 Edited by ll_Exile_ll (1481 posts) -

@mooseymcman said:

@jeust said:

@-cipher- said:

@jeust: It's not like antagonists are born with a bad guy voice.

No, but there are feelings that prevalent for them. Bitterness and hate are among them. And unless the protagonist is Kratos or a character like him, it is not normal for the main character to have those kinds of feelings.

I'd love it if Naughty Dog made a game where you played as the villain.

They did...

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#22 Posted by -Cipher- (108 posts) -

@mooseymcman said:

@jeust said:

@-cipher- said:

@jeust: It's not like antagonists are born with a bad guy voice.

No, but there are feelings that prevalent for them. Bitterness and hate are among them. And unless the protagonist is Kratos or a character like him, it is not normal for the main character to have those kinds of feelings.

I'd love it if Naughty Dog made a game where you played as the villain.

They did...

This is lost on me...

#23 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10559 posts) -

@mooseymcman said:

@jeust said:

@-cipher- said:

@jeust: It's not like antagonists are born with a bad guy voice.

No, but there are feelings that prevalent for them. Bitterness and hate are among them. And unless the protagonist is Kratos or a character like him, it is not normal for the main character to have those kinds of feelings.

I'd love it if Naughty Dog made a game where you played as the villain.

They did...

If that's what you think makes you a villain, then good sir, I strongly disagree.

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#24 Posted by Yummylee (21297 posts) -

@mooseymcman said:

@ll_exile_ll said:

@mooseymcman said:

@jeust said:

@-cipher- said:

@jeust: It's not like antagonists are born with a bad guy voice.

No, but there are feelings that prevalent for them. Bitterness and hate are among them. And unless the protagonist is Kratos or a character like him, it is not normal for the main character to have those kinds of feelings.

I'd love it if Naughty Dog made a game where you played as the villain.

They did...

If that's what you think makes you a villain, then good sir, I strongly disagree.

To be fair, that's precisely why The Last of Us' ending is so revered. Because of the divergence on opinions regarding Joel as a person and whether what he does is justified.

Anywhoo, I for one am fucking bored of Nathan Drake -- in fact I was beginning to feel this way by Uncharted 3. While it did at least offer some added insight into Nathan Drake's backstory and pathos, he's still primarily a rather generic swashbuckling, quip-happy hero. So unless they change his character pretty drastically for the new one in some way or the other, then having Nathan Drake continue as the protagonist is going to put a pretty heavy damper on any potential excitement I may have for this game.

I've always wanted a game that follows Sully, Chloe, or even Charlie Cutter instead. A Sully prequel during his younger years in particular has been a dream of mine. Though the common theory floating around for this game is that it'll star Francis Drake, which also sounds like it could very interesting.

@-cipher- said:

@mooseymcman: Kenway was good, but Ezio was a GOD to the AC fanbase. Naughty dog has done very well with Joel, Ellie, Nate Drake, Sully. I can't even think of one bad character they've created (except Talbot, who people don't like for some reason). Here's to hoping for the best.

Ramses was pretty shit, especially considering in both of the prior two Uncharteds the secondary-villains of Eddy Raja and Harry Flynn easily trumped the primary antagonists. I did like Talbot, though, as he was like someone who was ripped right out of a Bond movie. But Ramses, and Katherine Marlowe for that matter, were weak characters. Then again on that note so were Gabriel Roman and Atoq Navarro from Drake's Fortune, too. Roman was especially disappointing because he was voiced by Simon Templeman for fuck's sake! Like, how could they have missed such a superb opportunity like that?? Also, Cameraman Jeff was also rather forgettable too I suppose :P He literally only existed so as to get killed off to prove how eeeeviiiiillll Zoran Lazarabitch is.

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#25 Edited by MooseyMcMan (10559 posts) -

@yummylee: I know we disagree extensively on Uncharted 3 (the best Uncharted), but I do think we can agree that while Marlowe isn't a great character, she's still better than the primary villains of Uncharted 1 (generic British guy with no backstory) and Uncharted 2 (generic Russian guy with no backstory).

Given that Charlie is basically Jason Statham but with a different actor doing the voice, I would either be 100% for that, or constantly disappointed that he's not actually Jason Statham.

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#26 Edited by Yummylee (21297 posts) -

@mooseymcman said:

@yummylee: I know we disagree extensively on Uncharted 3 (the best Uncharted), but I do think we can agree that while Marlowe isn't a great character, she's still better than the primary villains of Uncharted 1 (generic British guy with no backstory) and Uncharted 2 (generic Russian guy with no backstory).

Given that Charlie is basically Jason Statham but with a different actor doing the voice, I would either be 100% for that, or constantly disappointed that he's not actually Jason Statham.

Katherine Marlowe is also simply a generic British lady if you want to really narrow them down like that. Hell, Eddy Raja is also basically just a generic hot-headed pirate. What differs, though, is their actions and how much screentime they get. Katherine Marlow barely does anything during Uncharted 3, and while it's perhaps the point since she's meant to be the sort of villain who has everyone else do her bidding for her, I never felt... well, anything towards her. I never had the burning desire to stop her like I did even Lazarevic. She simply held very little presence within the game, and for better or worse that would be in part because she was completely outshined by Talbot.

Also, claiming Charlie Cutter to be Jason Statham with a different voice actor is ludicrous. Yes, Charlie Cutter has a very ''man's man'' sort of demeanour, but that's also what's so great about him because he subverts that trope. He proves that he's knowledgeable of Shakespeare, espionage, and is clearly an educated and intelligent individual with a soft side to him. Whereas Statham's characters are often just thugs/hitmen for hire or... whatever the fuck Chev Chelios is.

Also also, Uncharted 3 is the worst Uncharted ect. ect.

EDIT: Though the sit down she has with Drake at the cafe table, where she reveals that Drake isn't Nate's real surname, was a decent scene. She's at the very least a better villain than both Roman and Navarro, that much I could consent to.

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#27 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10559 posts) -

@yummylee:

  1. Having Marlowe be involved in Drake's backstory with Sully gave her more meaning than any previous villain in the series.
  2. You have a very low opinion of Jason Statham, and I'm quite upset by that. I'll have you know that I think very highly of Mr. Statham. Also, the main reason I said that was because Charlie was British and bald.
  3. Uncharted 3 is the best Uncharted both in story, game play, puzzle design, level design, graphics, Jason Statham-alikes, etc.
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#28 Edited by Yummylee (21297 posts) -

@mooseymcman: Yes, she was inadvertently the one that brought Nate and Sully together, but besides that... nothing. I simply didn't care about her all that much. That also doesn't refute my claim that she's still just a generic British lady, again only going by your own criticisms over Lazarevitc being a generic Russian -- which by the by he's Serbian, not Russian... Racist.

Also, you proclaim that Charlie Cutter is just like Statham because he's British and bald. Again, racist!

Uncharted 3's story is also a mess, one that sets up one thing but then abandons it at the end for the sake of a traditional happy ending with far too many questions still left lingering. Then there's of course that whole ship graveyard scene that literally served no narrative purpose, had some of the most frustrating firefights in the game, and was the reason why they had to remove all of the quirky cheat codes! The gameplay also is weaker because, while it mostly controls just like Uncharted 2 (well, until they finally brought in the patch to revert the sluggish aiming system), all of the enemies are bullet sponges. Whereas in Uncharted 2 enemies go down surprisingly quickly, which especially stands out should you head back after getting so accustomed to Uncharted 3's way of things.

There's that entire sandstorm segment as well, where the enemies retain their Godly AI-accuracy whereas you can't see shit. Yeah, fun. Graphically... well sure it's technically better looking than the prior two, but it also removed all of the style to it. A lot of people probably don't remember this but Drake's Fortune had a very light cell-shading to it, that made it look somewhat cartoony even. Uncharted toned it down a little but still kept some of the style, whereas by Uncharted 3 they removed it entirely and made it look like any other graphically proficient game. So... yes, it's better technically, but I much prefer the look of both prior games frankly.

Finally (or not), Charlie and Chloe are abandoned in the middle part of the game before things get good, which to be fair is because of Graham McTavish and The Hobbit movie, but still... it's a criticism all the same to hafta lose such a compelling character so soon within the overall story. Removing Chloe I'm not too bothered about, since it made sense within her character to maybe give up out of fear; after all, it mimics how she felt during the later stages of Uncharted 2. Oh, and they recycled certain set-pieces from Uncharted 2 as well. The ending set-piece in particular is the same damn thing! But there's the horse-riding one too to consider, that's pretty much the exact same bit as in Uncharted 2 where Nate's jumping between the different trucks. Only here you're forced on the rails of a horse that could potentially get you killed because you couldn't slow down, thereby leaving you open to fire from any trucks with guys behind you that you didn't yet kill.

The desert part was OK, especially when you're first just hanging on to the piece of cargo as you're floating down to the surface. But even then I'd say I much preferred Uncharted 2's ''no combat segment'' when you're exploring the village and then platforming with Tenzin.

But that brings me back to the story, and specifically how it sets up a much more mature narrative involving the game acknowledging Drake's recklessness and selfishness. All throughout the game Nate is being chastised by everyone for continually putting his friends in danger, all for his adrenaline junkie habits. It was the reason why Nate and Elena went through that undisclosed breakup after all. Then Sully dies, which I thought was great! Even though I bloody love Sully, it made sense for him to die to finally give Nate's actions some consequence... only nope it was all a dream Nate saves the day and makes up with Elena The End.

So basically what I'm trying to say here is Fuck Uncharted 3.

...And now look what you've done. I've just written a massive text-dump that you're probably not going to want to hafta reply to, but this is what happens when you go around waltzing about Uncharted 3 and how it's the best Uncharted in every conceivable way. Well, I hope you're happy with yourself.

EDIT: Oh, puzzles! While Uncharted 3 continues to have some fun noodle-scratchers in there, they were poorly paced. All of them were dumped into the first half, leaving the second a mostly continuous shooting spree. Which of course differs against the prior two games.

Racist.

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#29 Edited by MooseyMcMan (10559 posts) -

@yummylee: I am happy with myself.

  1. I had the good fortune of not playing Uncharted 3 until after they patched the controls.
  2. Every part of the game that you complain about (the shipyard, the sandstorm) I enjoyed. Yes, I agree that the shipyard doesn't really add anything storywise (aside from getting Drake from point a to point b, which, really, could have been done any number of ways), but I enjoyed playing it.
  3. I played Drake's Fortune like five times or something, and never ONCE did I ever think anything about it looked even remotely cell shaded, so I'm not sure what game you were playing.
  4. Did Uncharted 2 ever actually say that Russian guy was Serbian? Also, whatever, like I care about any Former Soviet Bloc nations.
  5. Associating Charlie with Jason Statham isn't racist for two reasons: 1. It's hair-ist, and two, "British" isn't a race.
  6. I do think dropping Charlie and Chloe was unfortunate, but the way I read it was that things were getting so extreme that they had to get out before they died, whereas Drake's obsession was the thing that kept him going.
  7. I remember having more trouble with bullet spongey enemies in 2 with those armored guys, but I haven't played that game in years.
  8. I know there are bits in Uncharted 3 that are conceptually similar to scenes in Uncharted 2 (the horse scene, the end running bit), but I think in every case Uncharted 3 was better. The end sequence in Uncharted 2 seems chintzy and boring compared to the end of Uncharted 3 (which also features one last fight with Talbot, as opposed to 2 where it's just running).
  9. When Sully died, my thinking was, "No way, it's got to be some sort of trick," and I was right. I don't think killing off one of the likeable characters would be in the "spirit" of Uncharted, for better or for worse.
  10. Tenzin is over rated.
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#30 Edited by MooseyMcMan (10559 posts) -

@yummylee: I'm sorry you're not better at playing the game (the only reason I can think of for why you'd think those parts of the game were frustrating).

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#31 Posted by Yummylee (21297 posts) -

@yummylee: I am happy with myself.

  1. I had the good fortune of not playing Uncharted 3 until after they patched the controls.
  2. Every part of the game that you complain about (the shipyard, the sandstorm) I enjoyed. Yes, I agree that the shipyard doesn't really add anything storywise (aside from getting Drake from point a to point b, which, really, could have been done any number of ways), but I enjoyed playing it.
  3. I played Drake's Fortune like five times or something, and never ONCE did I ever think anything about it looked even remotely cell shaded, so I'm not sure what game you were playing.
  4. Did Uncharted 2 ever actually say that Russian guy was Serbian? Also, whatever, like I care about any Former Soviet Bloc nations.
  5. Associating Charlie with Jason Statham isn't racist for two reasons: 1. It's hair-ist, and two, "British" isn't a race.
  6. I do think dropping Charlie and Chloe was unfortunate, but the way I read it was that things were getting so extreme that they had to get out before they died, whereas Drake's obsession was the thing that kept him going.
  7. I remember having more trouble with bullet spongey enemies in 2 with those armored guys, but I haven't played that game in years.
  8. I know there are bits in Uncharted 3 that are conceptually similar to scenes in Uncharted 2 (the horse scene, the end running bit), but I think in every case Uncharted 3 was better. The end sequence in Uncharted 2 seems chintzy and boring compared to the end of Uncharted 3 (which also features one last fight with Talbot, as opposed to 2 where it's just running).
  9. When Sully died, my thinking was, "No way, it's got to be some sort of trick," and I was right. I don't think killing off one of the likeable characters would be in the "spirit" of Uncharted, for better or for worse.
  10. Tenzin is over rated.

1. You are indeed lucky then in that regard certainly.

2. Well, nothing that can be done about that I guess. I think both of those segments were absolute garbage and not very fun at all, as did a lot of other people I think it's worth pointing out, but... ah well. You enjoyed them and that's fine.

3. Here's a trailer of Drake's Fortune (also Massive Attack lolwtf??). Here's one of Drake's Deception. You can't deny that there's a clear difference in art style between the two, with Uncharted 3 adopting a much more realistic and gritty look.

4. Racist.

5. Xenophobic then. Nationalist, whatever. Point is I was joking anyway... though I am often still sort of annoyed with how British (which btw consists of English, Welsh, and Scottish, not just English) are basically summed up as basically either Jason Statham or The Queen in terms of archetypes.

6. It still sucks, though, least regarding Charlie anywhoo. They didn't even bring him back for the ending or anything either -- he's just done as soon as his he breaks his leg. Which, again, scheduling conflicts but it doesn't make it suck any less.

7. You should really play Uncharted 2 again.

8. I strongly disagree. Like I said, the horse set-piece pales in comparison to Uncharted 2's because you're stuck on a rail. While Uncharted 2's is also still heavily scripted, it at least offers you a little more leeway in choosing when to jump onto the truck. Plus, like i said, it's very easy to accidentally fuck things up should the horse race past a truck, giving you no other possibilities except to die and start over. And besides... they recycled set-pieces, which by Uncharted's nature aren't all that interactive to begin with, so it's only natural that dumping a few similar such ones into a sequel is going to feel trite. Uncharted 3 set-piece wise felt creatively bankrupt and like it was just going through the motions, whereas the jump between Drake's Fortune and Among Thieves was pretty huge.

9. I would ordinarily agree that killing of a major character wouldn't seem in the spirit of a light-hearted Uncharted adventure... but that's not what Uncharted 3 was trying to be, least at first. Like I said, it kept throwing all of these messages at you how Nate is going to have to pay a harsh price for his reckless behaviour... and then when the price is revealed, it felt thematically correct. But then dream sequence LULZ. Which only contrasts against the direction the story was initially taking.

10. You're overrated.

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#32 Edited by Yummylee (21297 posts) -

@mooseymcman said:

@yummylee: I'm sorry you're not better at playing the game (the only reason I can think of for why you'd think those parts of the game were frustrating).

Oh comon now. I've completed Uncharted 3 on Crushing so, I've beaten the hardest the game has to offer. That still doesn't make the sandstorm part in particular any less of a pile of absolute, triple-A, concentrated bullshit.

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#33 Edited by MooseyMcMan (10559 posts) -

@yummylee: I think you're confusing a (relative) lack of detail with a conscious art-style decision. Yes, there's a difference, but it just looks like Uncharted 1 had less detail in the character models as a result of it being an earlier game in the PS3's life.

As an American, I can tell you that we have plenty of other British stereotypes beyond Jason Statham and The Queen.

As a struggling electronic book author, I wish I was over rated.

The rest of this just boils down to a difference of opinion, so we should probably just stop until the next time one of us (me) brings up Uncharted and the other (you) feels obligated to respond.

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#34 Edited by MooseyMcMan (10559 posts) -

@yummylee said:

@mooseymcman said:

@yummylee: I'm sorry you're not better at playing the game (the only reason I can think of for why you'd think those parts of the game were frustrating).

Oh comon now. I've completed Uncharted 3 on Crushing so, I've beaten the hardest the game has to offer. That still doesn't make the sandstorm part in particular any less of a pile of absolute, triple-A, concentrated bullshit.

Oh, never mind then. I've never even tried playing any of the games on Crushing. Why would you do that if you already thought parts of the game were not well designed?

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#35 Edited by Yummylee (21297 posts) -

@mooseymcman said:

@yummylee: I think you're confusing a (relative) lack of detail with a conscious art-style decision. Yes, there's a difference, but it just looks like Uncharted 1 had less detail in the character models as a result of it being an earlier game in the PS3's life.

As an American, I can tell you that we have plenty of other British stereotypes beyond Jason Statham and The Queen.

As a struggling electronic book author, I wish I was over rated.

The rest of this just boils down to a difference of opinion, so we should probably just stop until the next time one of us (me) brings up Uncharted and the other (you) feels obligated to respond.

Maybe it's not quite as clear via the trailer... but trust me, there's definitely a difference. I played a bit of both prior Uncharteds after completing Uncharted 3 for a little bit of investigation to help me realise why I disliked Uncharted 3 so much in comparison to its predecessors. Maybe it was in fact implemented as a means of technical limitations, but in that case it could be considered a happy accident then, as I much prefer the look of the prior two games.

And yes, obviously it comes down to opinions... but if everybody were to sum up discussions ''well, opinions'' then nobody would talk in-depth about anything ever. Plus there are certain aspects that are definitely worth reiterating as irrefutable. Such as most importantly the difference between the regular soldier's health between Uncharted 2 & 3. Because trust me, you play those two back-to-back and you will be amazed at how comparatively sturdy they made them in 3. In fact, as was a line I made in my user-review, it's like they regressed back to the more aggressive and overwhelming enemy encounters from Drake's Fortune, with scenarios where you've hunkered down by 3 guys with laser-sights bearing down you while you've got another 2 guys dressed in heavy armour from behind.

You compile that with the recycled set-pieces and inconsistent story, and I will forever fail to see how anyone could genuinely consider Uncharted 3 to have the best Uncharted single-player.

Also, something else, they ruined the melee by ironically enough making it more involved. While for the occasional Batman: AA rip-off scenes they were fine, in the midst of battle getting stuck in a regular melee brawl was often a death sentence, as enemies now block and stuff, but at the same time while you're stuck in melee you're still getting shot from everyone else... Oh, and how many damn times do I have to battle it out against that same, big, burly, brute guy?? Though it is at least sorta funny how he's literally the same guy over and over again just dressed in different attire.

@mooseymcman said:

@yummylee said:

@mooseymcman said:

@yummylee: I'm sorry you're not better at playing the game (the only reason I can think of for why you'd think those parts of the game were frustrating).

Oh comon now. I've completed Uncharted 3 on Crushing so, I've beaten the hardest the game has to offer. That still doesn't make the sandstorm part in particular any less of a pile of absolute, triple-A, concentrated bullshit.

Oh, never mind then. I've never even tried playing any of the games on Crushing. Why would you do that if you already thought parts of the game were not well designed?

I had platinumed the previous two and wanted to keep the tradition going... I never did platinum 3, though. Got bored collecting the treasures, and the ''kill so many guys with X weapon'' trophies are a little trickier given you can no longer equip yourself with whatever weapon you want anymore via the cheats. I did at least beat it on Crushing, though, and that I'm at least... proud... of? I dunno, it's done either way.

Actually wait, I didn't Platinum Drake's Fortune. Though again it was because of the treasures... But I did beat it on Crushing, so I guess the tradition is I wanted to beat them all on Crushing, regardless of how much fun I have (or don't have) doing it...

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#36 Posted by cloudnineboya (774 posts) -

haha this is fucking awesome^!.

#37 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10559 posts) -

@yummylee: Well, the main reason I said "opinions" was because we're arguing about a 3 year old game and it seems apparent to me that neither of us is going to convince the other, because we both think that we're correct. When I played Uncharted 3, I had a blast, I loved the story, and got so caught up in it all that I didn't even realize they were "recycling" set pieces. You, on the other hand, noticed stuff like the recycled set-pieces, increased enemy health, etc.

I understand your reasons, and why you think the way you do, but you're never going to convince me. Even if you bring up some of the game's code and compare the amount health enemies have to Uncharted 2 enemies, it doesn't matter to me because I never found it to be an issue.

Even the melee combat, I enjoyed Uncharted 3's the most. And really, I think that if you're trying to melee someone in the middle of a firefight, the end result should be that the other guys are going to shoot you. That's what I would do if I was a minion fighting against the hero.

I do genuinely think that not only does Uncharted 3 have the best story of the bunch, but that Uncharted 2 has the worst story. It doesn't really even have much of a story beyond "Russian guy is evil and here's some blue guys."

I will say this: Uncharted 3 is the worst when it comes to Nazi related content. The first one had that U-Boat, and the Nazi base, and Uncharted 2 had a living ex-Nazi. 3 though? No Nazis anywhere!

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#38 Posted by SingingMenstrual (327 posts) -

For me personally Uncharted begins and ends with Uncharted 2. The first, I hear, was a weak start for the IP, and the third is supposed to be frustrating with unfair difficulty spikes.

I beat Uncharted 2 when it came out, then a year later with a friend, and two days ago I started a new playthrough. This game LITERALLY is Amazing Hollywood Movie: The Game. It just nails it and it's very satisfying in the process. I can't put it down :)

The only possibility for me to be interested in the new Uncharted is if I don't hear the negative criticism that 1 and 3 get. But something tells me Uncharted 2 was a once in a life time thing.

#39 Edited by Jeust (10487 posts) -

@yummylee said:

@mooseymcman: Yes, she was inadvertently the one that brought Nate and Sully together, but besides that... nothing. I simply didn't care about her all that much. That also doesn't refute my claim that she's still just a generic British lady, again only going by your own criticisms over Lazarevitc being a generic Russian -- which by the by he's Serbian, not Russian... Racist.

Also, you proclaim that Charlie Cutter is just like Statham because he's British and bald. Again, racist!

Uncharted 3's story is also a mess, one that sets up one thing but then abandons it at the end for the sake of a traditional happy ending with far too many questions still left lingering. Then there's of course that whole ship graveyard scene that literally served no narrative purpose, had some of the most frustrating firefights in the game, and was the reason why they had to remove all of the quirky cheat codes! The gameplay also is weaker because, while it mostly controls just like Uncharted 2 (well, until they finally brought in the patch to revert the sluggish aiming system), all of the enemies are bullet sponges. Whereas in Uncharted 2 enemies go down surprisingly quickly, which especially stands out should you head back after getting so accustomed to Uncharted 3's way of things.

There's that entire sandstorm segment as well, where the enemies retain their Godly AI-accuracy whereas you can't see shit. Yeah, fun. Graphically... well sure it's technically better looking than the prior two, but it also removed all of the style to it. A lot of people probably don't remember this but Drake's Fortune had a very light cell-shading to it, that made it look somewhat cartoony even. Uncharted toned it down a little but still kept some of the style, whereas by Uncharted 3 they removed it entirely and made it look like any other graphically proficient game. So... yes, it's better technically, but I much prefer the look of both prior games frankly.

Finally (or not), Charlie and Chloe are abandoned in the middle part of the game before things get good, which to be fair is because of Graham McTavish and The Hobbit movie, but still... it's a criticism all the same to hafta lose such a compelling character so soon within the overall story. Removing Chloe I'm not too bothered about, since it made sense within her character to maybe give up out of fear; after all, it mimics how she felt during the later stages of Uncharted 2. Oh, and they recycled certain set-pieces from Uncharted 2 as well. The ending set-piece in particular is the same damn thing! But there's the horse-riding one too to consider, that's pretty much the exact same bit as in Uncharted 2 where Nate's jumping between the different trucks. Only here you're forced on the rails of a horse that could potentially get you killed because you couldn't slow down, thereby leaving you open to fire from any trucks with guys behind you that you didn't yet kill.

The desert part was OK, especially when you're first just hanging on to the piece of cargo as you're floating down to the surface. But even then I'd say I much preferred Uncharted 2's ''no combat segment'' when you're exploring the village and then platforming with Tenzin.

But that brings me back to the story, and specifically how it sets up a much more mature narrative involving the game acknowledging Drake's recklessness and selfishness. All throughout the game Nate is being chastised by everyone for continually putting his friends in danger, all for his adrenaline junkie habits. It was the reason why Nate and Elena went through that undisclosed breakup after all. Then Sully dies, which I thought was great! Even though I bloody love Sully, it made sense for him to die to finally give Nate's actions some consequence... only nope it was all a dream Nate saves the day and makes up with Elena The End.

So basically what I'm trying to say here is Fuck Uncharted 3.

...And now look what you've done. I've just written a massive text-dump that you're probably not going to want to hafta reply to, but this is what happens when you go around waltzing about Uncharted 3 and how it's the best Uncharted in every conceivable way. Well, I hope you're happy with yourself.

EDIT: Oh, puzzles! While Uncharted 3 continues to have some fun noodle-scratchers in there, they were poorly paced. All of them were dumped into the first half, leaving the second a mostly continuous shooting spree. Which of course differs against the prior two games.

Racist.

Personally I also prefer Uncharted 3's story, although it is true that the midpoint twist felt a bit forced and hurt the game, but the rest was really great story-wise.

The shipyard part is due to Naughty Dog's approach to the Uncharted franchise, with deciding first the scenarios, and afterwards fleshing out the story around them. But although it served little purpose, I really liked the location.

And the ending part was true to the movies and games where the franchise gathered inspiration from. The action adventure genre is filled with happy endings and big treasures. It is a quality and a flaw depending of how you see it. I see it as a quality.

And the questions the game raised, there is not a single one I want answer for. The only one that really springs to mind was Talbot's disappearing act, but I think that event suits him, as a mysterious, coniving and manipulative character.

#40 Edited by Yummylee (21297 posts) -

@mooseymcman: See, while both prior Uncharted games do have incredibly simple stories of ''Nathan Drake stops the bad guys'', it's at least consistent with itself, whereas again the problem I had with Uncharted 3's is its inconsistency. It just didn't add up. Plus, Harry Flynn I thought was a better villain the trio of Uncharted 3 combined, and Uncharted 2 did also have the surprisingly effective love-triangle thing going on.

And again regarding the melee, once you are actively engaged in melee you are stuck. That's my problem with it. If a goon decides to run up and initiate a melee brawl, you then are forced to fight him... You can't escape out of it--or at least it's more difficult than it should be--until this guy's dead, and that's what's broken about the melee.

But yes, we're at a stand-still, only there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with you liking Uncharted 3, nor that it's your favourite, even if I can't emphasise. What is worth discussing, however, are the merits about where Uncharted 3 stands in the series. And just because you (not you you, but the formal you) happen to like a game a lot shouldn't automatically make it the best designed or well made. That's the distinction that usually needs to be made; after all as a fellow fan of Deadly Premonition, I'm sure you would agree that game's all sorts of bad in a lot of respects. Yet we both still really enjoyed it, but at the same time I would hardly go as so far as to call it a great game or anything. From a GB review standpoint I'd probably give it 3 stars at most.

Me laying out my problems with the game isn't to try and deter you from liking it, but to give you my impressions on how certain aspects are kinda fucked. It's so you could potentially acknowledge the problems while still possibly considering it to be your favourite. But the same could have happened the other way; you could have also written up a persuasive enough argument about what I consider criticisms to not be all that bad. And while either of us hasn't exactly changed our opinion regarding Uncharted 3 all that drastically, it was still a conversation worth having all the same, especially since we've often danced around this topic given how frequently you have stated in the past that Uncharted 3 is the best Uncharted.

Anywhoo, in short, agree to disagree and all that then.

Racist

Online
#41 Edited by MooseyMcMan (10559 posts) -

@yummylee: All this is really making me want to go and play through all three of them in a row to see how they stack up both in retrospect, and compared to each other.

I also kinda don't want to because now that I've finished Dark Souls II, I was hoping that I was done with PS3 games. I dunno, maybe if I can play them all with a DualShock 4...Wait, no, Drake's Fortune had that tilt the controller to balance thing...Ugh...

It's not like I don't have the time, what with being unemployed and everything. There's also the part where now that you've pointed out all these things like the amount of health enemies have that I might notice it, whereas before I didn't, and I hate admitting that I'm wrong unless it's really obvious that I'm wrong (in which case I don't mind).

You know, the irony is that the tilt sensor in the DS4 is actually really good, from the few things I've used it with, so tilt to balance might be less stupid now.

You know, when I was playing Heavy Rain, I actually had to reload a save because the controller didn't recognize a movement I made one time, which literally resulted in a character dying. But let's not get into Heavy Rain or SIXAXIS.

Bell-end.

Moderator
#42 Edited by Yummylee (21297 posts) -

@mooseymcman said:

Bell-end.

Funny that the entire thread is now encased in a discussion related to earlier Uncharteds, but oh well... it should still count as being relevant to a certain degree.

EDIT: Also overall I would probably consider Drake's Fortune to be the worst, as it's a pretty rotten third-person shooter. But like everything there's relativity to account for, and I'm more forgiving towards Drake's Fortune because it was first. Plus, I still enjoy the story and again like the way it looks.

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#43 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10559 posts) -

@yummylee said:

@mooseymcman said:

Bell-end.

Funny that the entire thread is now encased in a discussion related to earlier Uncharteds, but oh well... it should still count as being relevant to a certain degree.

That's what happens when someone tries to artificially create discussion about something without much to go on. It's not like Metal Gear where we can talk nonsense for days and have any of it be just as likely as anything else.

Moderator
#44 Edited by ll_Exile_ll (1481 posts) -

@ll_exile_ll said:

@mooseymcman said:

@jeust said:

@-cipher- said:

@jeust: It's not like antagonists are born with a bad guy voice.

No, but there are feelings that prevalent for them. Bitterness and hate are among them. And unless the protagonist is Kratos or a character like him, it is not normal for the main character to have those kinds of feelings.

I'd love it if Naughty Dog made a game where you played as the villain.

They did...

If that's what you think makes you a villain, then good sir, I strongly disagree.

Well yeah, it's not as though you're playing as Lezaravich (sp?) or Marlowe, but you're certainly not playing as a hero either.

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#45 Posted by ozzdog12 (856 posts) -

I think Drake will still be the protagonist. Didn't Nolan North basically confirm he did voice work for the new Uncharted like a few weeks before the announcement trailer?

The trailer in my opinion, is just the main bad guy narrating.

#46 Edited by Lava (665 posts) -

I'm not sick of Drake and while I didn't enjoy U3 as much as U2 I still really really liked it, definitely up there in my favorites of the PS3 generation. I hope they still have Drake and Sully together. I think the two are a really good duo. Hell maybe the game is Drake training a kid or being followed around by a kid, but still playing as Drake? I dunno. I'm looking forward to more Uncharted for sure.

#47 Posted by TheManWithNoPlan (5269 posts) -

I won't be disappointed if it's the same cast of characters, but it'd be really nice to see them move on to some new ones. Maybe if Drake took the role of Sully and a new protagonist took the role of drake.

#48 Edited by NTM (7286 posts) -

@ll_exile_ll: I didn't say it's highly unlikely that Drake is the protagonist, I said that for the other way around. Of course you're right, but with the trailer that's shown, I would think most people would assume Drake is still the protagonist, and not the guy talking in the trailer.

Edit: Oops, never mind; you weren't replying to me...

#49 Posted by NTM (7286 posts) -

@ll_exile_ll: Joel is both bad and good. I wouldn't call him a villain.

#50 Posted by GunstarRed (5046 posts) -

I'm hoping they take it in a totally different direction. Nathan Drake carries around a talking duck on his shoulder voiced by the same dude as Daxter. It will be like Uncharted: Drake and Drake's adventures.