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#1 Posted by MarkM (288 posts) -

Are these guys even trying anymore?

Every single developer out there is saying they don't give a shit about WiiU Dev kits.

Nintendo sold a bunch of N64's at launch because people wanted to play Mario 64.

Straight up. Straight up and down I'm going to say this and I don't care: The 3DS is superior to the WiiU in every imaginable way.

Let that sink in.

Imagine the Game Boy being better then the Super Nintendo...the fuck outta here!

#2 Edited by BestUsernameEver (4825 posts) -
  • They made the mistake again from the 3DS launch by trying to get new hardware on the market quickly, that stung them with the 3DS because obviously the games lineup just wasnt there (and me not being a big JRPG fan, I'd say the 3DS is still completely deplete of a good library.)
  • They took a bet on the people who made the Wii popular, and the people who liked the Wii liked it because of it's easy control method and novel games. With the Wii U, there isn't a word of mouth, gimmicky game, AND, the control method is simply not inviting, it looks harder to understand than a 360 controller to consumers.
  • If they actually made this thing in line with ps4, next xbox, a ton of problems would go away. Activision staying silent on the next CoD coming to the platform, and frostbite 2 not working well on the system would both be solved if Nintendo ate their Wii loses through 2013, and launched a truly next generation console with the other two. I know, Nintendo doesn't really compete with Microsoft and Sony, but if they're making the claim that this is going to be the system with good third party support, they better understand they're competing now. You can't make an inferior console tech wise, and hope many developers make special versions or quick ports immediately, there has to be a good reason to come over, and with the stagnant sales AND extra work to port, I don't blame anyone from shying away.
  • Brand confusion, so many people still don't even know it exists, and even some still think it's a Wii add on, it's been discussed to death, but still pointing it out.
  • Not showing to E3 is probably going to be a huge mistake. On the year of two new hardware unveils, you don't sit by quietly, you make your presence MORE known, make people know there is a system you can buy today, that has X and Y awesome games that are either better than the PS4 and xbox equivalents or at least add something with the controller, and so far developers don't know how to truly enhance the experience, they just fall back on dual monitor or strange gimmicks.
  • All of Nintendo's sales woes could be solved by making a new Mario paint, do it Nintendo.
Online
#3 Posted by Daveyo520 (6651 posts) -

The handhelds they have put out have been what is keeping them alive for a lot of their life.

#4 Posted by MarkM (288 posts) -

  • I'd say the 3DS is still completely deplete of a good library

why would you take it there tho.

bro.

#5 Edited by TheManWithNoPlan (5124 posts) -

Nintendo continually tests my love and patience.

#6 Edited by SycoMantis91 (26 posts) -

I honestly wish they'd give up on consoles and put all their efforts in their handhelds. They're all so good (Virtual Boy aside). I think the DS was by far the most worthwhile video gaming system of the last generation and the 3DS so far at least seems a lot more promising than any of the "next gen consoles" (not getting a 3DS for a few more months). Imagine if they put all their effort into the 3DS instead of 65%

#7 Posted by believer258 (11557 posts) -

(and me not being a big JRPG fan, I'd say the 3DS is still completely deplete of a good library.)

Well, there's the Ghost Recon strategy game as well as Luigi's Mansion, Super Mario 3D Land, and Ocarina of Time.

The 3DS is superior to the WiiU in every imaginable way.

That doesn't blow my mind. I liked the DS better than the Wii and the Game Boy Advance was just as good, possibly better than, the Gamecube. All of Nintendo's handhelds have thus far proven themselves great.

#8 Posted by Blu3V3nom07 (4136 posts) -

1) They should make a Wii U 2.

2) Anthony Gallegos said last week, that Nintendo would sooner burn Nintendo to the ground with C4, before selling off the company, shirt asunder. "Nintendo.."

3) Zack and Wiki 2 won't happen on Nintendo's boat

4) ZombiU 2 probably isn't Worth making..

5) Super Smash 4, Save Us!

#9 Edited by Rebel_Scum (617 posts) -

I wish they'd give up on hardware and just release software like what Sega did. Their first party games would sell more I reckon since the base on 360 and PS3 is much larger combined than Wii U.

#10 Edited by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

It's times like these I'm glad I fucking hate most Nintendo games and hardware because I'm not blinded by nostalgia and loyalism. They make good handhelds, I suppose, not really my thing but I have no reason to really dislike them. Hopefully Nintendo will crash and they will take the people who do know how to make good stuff and bring it up to modern standards.

#11 Posted by Hailinel (23674 posts) -

It's times like these I'm glad I fucking hate most Nintendo games and hardware because I'm not blinded by nostalgia and loyalism. They make good handhelds, I suppose, not really my thing but I have no reason to really dislike them. Hopefully Nintendo will crash and they will take the people who do know how to make good stuff and bring it up to modern standards.

It always blows my mind that people would actively wish for a company's failure for selfish reasons like this.

#12 Edited by casper_ (901 posts) -

patrick said something on the bombcast (after jeff had questioned the future of the console) to the effect of "first party nintendo games are gonna come around and save the Wii U" but i'm starting to doubt that. they lost the casual market and how many super devoted nintendo fans are out there really? i just don't know who they are aiming to please anymore.

#13 Edited by ripelivejam (3454 posts) -

you say all of this, and yet lately i've really been jonesing for a Wii U for some completely indeterminate reason. seeing the gamepad in person may have solidified this, as it just felt good to hold and the screen actually looks damn nice.

i do wish they maybe waited a year and put out something competitive tech wise with the new XBOX and PS4, but then again that doesn't really seem Nintendo of them. even with the dated hardware i think if they pushed it relentlessly enough people would have bought into it on sheer advertising power alone. it kinda boggles me that the hype machine was so absolutely non-existent. it's like they gave up on it before it had any chance to start.

i think the concept in the end is essentially a home version of the DS, which sounds sweet in theory but as others said it cost them pretty dearly in the casual market. maybe if they just made it touch-based and stripped the tablet of all extraneous buttons it would have somehow been more appealing, but there still would have been the disconnect between the tablet and what's going on on the TV. that would have probably still been an insurmountable obstacle for the terminally casual. you can't really blame ninty too much, as with the wii's novelty dying down they were put in a pretty tough position. i still love them dearly and i still have this weird desire to own a Wii U, but i'm really wondering what they're doing as a company. they need to refocus their efforts, either at trying to make the Wii U more desirable with classic Ninty exclusives, or doubling down on portable market. i'm pretty sure they'll disappear before they go 3rd party, at any rate (that would be a very sad day. also if they went 3rd party they would probably sink into irrelevance as badly as Sega did.).

#14 Edited by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@mordeaniischaos said:

It's times like these I'm glad I fucking hate most Nintendo games and hardware because I'm not blinded by nostalgia and loyalism. They make good handhelds, I suppose, not really my thing but I have no reason to really dislike them. Hopefully Nintendo will crash and they will take the people who do know how to make good stuff and bring it up to modern standards.

It always blows my mind that people would actively wish for a company's failure for selfish reasons like this.

So that more good stuff will be made? I won't even play them, I just feel bad knowing how many people are being held back at Nintendo by archaic design.

#15 Edited by Hailinel (23674 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@mordeaniischaos said:

It's times like these I'm glad I fucking hate most Nintendo games and hardware because I'm not blinded by nostalgia and loyalism. They make good handhelds, I suppose, not really my thing but I have no reason to really dislike them. Hopefully Nintendo will crash and they will take the people who do know how to make good stuff and bring it up to modern standards.

It always blows my mind that people would actively wish for a company's failure for selfish reasons like this.

So that more good stuff will be made? I won't even play them, I just feel bad knowing how many people are being held back at Nintendo by archaic design.

What archaic design are you talking about? And how would their demise lead to more good stuff? Your logic is completely ass-backwards.

#16 Edited by ArbitraryWater (11415 posts) -

Really, starting with the GBA onward I think Nintendo's handhelds have had a better software selection than their console counterparts by far. I don't think it's a particularly controversial opinion to say that. I spent exponentially more time with my DS than my Wii, and the 3DS is on its way to having a respectable lineup of software.

As for the Wii U... I will inevitably buy once once the price gets low enough and there are enough quality Nintendo developed titles for me to care. I've resigned myself to this fate, knowing that they'll probably make a Fire Emblem game for it... if Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem doesn't count already.

Online
#17 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

Cause Nintendo is all about the gimmicks.

#18 Edited by BeachThunder (11634 posts) -
@markm said:
Straight up. Straight up and down I'm going to say this and I don't care: The 3DS is superior to the WiiU in every imaginable way.

Handheld Nintendo is best Nintendo

#19 Posted by Vinny_Says (5681 posts) -

When I think about next gen consoles, I think about things that I cannot yet imagine. Hear me out: When I think about games in 2014-2015 I can see how better technology allows for crazy new things that people have yet to come up with. Crazy new worlds, AI routines, visual effects, etc. Stuff that only exists in minds much more brilliant than you and me.

But with nintendo, at least when it comes to home consoles, the best I can come up with is another Mario game or another Zelda game with one new thing that really isn't all that special. Part of that stems from them being behind in terms of technology and part of it is from them being so set in their ways. That kind of bums me out a bit.

#20 Posted by TheManiacsGnome (265 posts) -
@markm said:

Let that sink in.

Your opinion on the matter isn't infallible, I don't see what is sinking in other than your view on the matter.

I enjoyed the N64, I enjoyed the Gamecube, I liked parts of the Wii, I'm sure the Wii U will fit in there somewhere.

#21 Posted by myketuna (1644 posts) -

I want Nintendo to fucking amaze me again. They get me a little excited now and then, but then they kill me with some of the decisions they make. I'm still buying a Wii U eventually, but much, much later.

#22 Edited by JasonR86 (9578 posts) -

lol

#23 Edited by StarvingGamer (7906 posts) -

@markm said:

Straight up. Straight up and down I'm going to say this and I don't care: The 3DS is superior to the WiiU in every imaginable way.

Wait wait wait. Wait.

Are you telling me that a console that has had time to build up a significant library of quality games and has seen numerous firmware revisions is better than a console that is still in its infancy?

No. Fucking. Way.

Mind blown.

I'm letting it sink in.

#24 Posted by Milkman (16480 posts) -

I'm going to let this sink in and then get back to you.

Online
#25 Posted by LostDonuts (21 posts) -

Now that I think about it I probably had more fun on my DS than I did on my Wii.

#26 Posted by TheHT (10795 posts) -

what a hell nintendo. what a hell.

#27 Posted by Rekt_Hed (843 posts) -

Nintendo continues to baffle me and has done since the announcement of the Wii U. But hey they got money to burn so they are probably gonna keep doing that I guess

#28 Edited by ripelivejam (3454 posts) -

ace in the hole: console pokemon MMO

and you doubted them. ALWAYS BET ON NINTENDO.

#29 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@mordeaniischaos said:

@hailinel said:

@mordeaniischaos said:

It's times like these I'm glad I fucking hate most Nintendo games and hardware because I'm not blinded by nostalgia and loyalism. They make good handhelds, I suppose, not really my thing but I have no reason to really dislike them. Hopefully Nintendo will crash and they will take the people who do know how to make good stuff and bring it up to modern standards.

It always blows my mind that people would actively wish for a company's failure for selfish reasons like this.

So that more good stuff will be made? I won't even play them, I just feel bad knowing how many people are being held back at Nintendo by archaic design.

What archaic design are you talking about? And how would their demise lead to more good stuff? Your logic is completely ass-backwards.

A lot of the more involved primary Nintendo games have pretty awful/old control schemes, they cling to old tropes, and they squander the potential of fantastic games with things like bad controls.

I mean, come on. It's Nintendo. They almost never step away from their old design decisions. Fuck, the writing in Skywards Sword is excellent, other than it taking for fucking ever to get through, and man would the dialogue and stuff be great with some good voice work. But that's not how they do things at Nintendo. They still do things the way they have always done things, and that's a bummer because there aren't a lot of opportunities for people to break out of the mold a bit.

#30 Posted by LackingSaint (1764 posts) -

I'm not a huge Nintendo fan at all, but it breaks my heart seeing a company that cares so much about games do so poorly lately. That said, maybe they'd fare better if they started making more new IPs and gameplay formulas; i'm sure i'm not the only one who's kind of bored of more 2D Mario games.

#31 Edited by SathingtonWaltz (2053 posts) -

It will take much more than one failure for Nintendo to leave the industry. While I actively enjoy my Wii U quite a bit, I think the criticism / failure could be good for the company. A little humility and all that..

I'm still really optimistic for the console though, and I think we should wait until E3 to pass judgement on the system. I've been playing games for a long time, and there have been plenty of great systems with much worse launches than the Wii U. Considering that the Wii U was likely rushed I'm surprised by how much I have to play for it!

#32 Edited by Lemonhead (49 posts) -

Nintendo lives in an ivory tower of some sort. They go their own ways, and in the past this has given us the D-pad, the analog stick, the rumble feature and the Wii. Now it seems all we get are games with MIDI music and textboxes instead of voice-over and actual cinematic game design. They also seem to think the way we play multiplayer today, is how we played it in the nineties, by bringing 3 guys over to your house and sitting on the couch together.

I would love for them to stop making hardware and start making PC games.

#33 Edited by Abendlaender (2733 posts) -

In my opinion the DS was better than...any console this gen so this doesn't blow my mind at all

#34 Edited by frankfartmouth (1016 posts) -

@mordeaniischaos said:

@hailinel said:

@mordeaniischaos said:

@hailinel said:

@mordeaniischaos said:

It's times like these I'm glad I fucking hate most Nintendo games and hardware because I'm not blinded by nostalgia and loyalism. They make good handhelds, I suppose, not really my thing but I have no reason to really dislike them. Hopefully Nintendo will crash and they will take the people who do know how to make good stuff and bring it up to modern standards.

It always blows my mind that people would actively wish for a company's failure for selfish reasons like this.

So that more good stuff will be made? I won't even play them, I just feel bad knowing how many people are being held back at Nintendo by archaic design.

What archaic design are you talking about? And how would their demise lead to more good stuff? Your logic is completely ass-backwards.

A lot of the more involved primary Nintendo games have pretty awful/old control schemes, they cling to old tropes, and they squander the potential of fantastic games with things like bad controls.

I mean, come on. It's Nintendo. They almost never step away from their old design decisions. Fuck, the writing in Skywards Sword is excellent, other than it taking for fucking ever to get through, and man would the dialogue and stuff be great with some good voice work. But that's not how they do things at Nintendo. They still do things the way they have always done things, and that's a bummer because there aren't a lot of opportunities for people to break out of the mold a bit.

Most game companies essentially do things the way they've always done things. That's nothing exclusive to Nintendo in and of itself; it's just that they've bucked some of the major design choices that have become mainstays over the last two console cycles, especially the emphasis on Hollywood-style narrative, visceral action, gore, and voice work. Yes, they're using the old Nintendo formula. Yes, they could stand to innovate more. Yes, the Wii U is a troubled, directionless system. There are problems, no doubt, but it bothers me when people shout that they need to innovate, and then the suggestion is...more voice work. That's not innovation. That's what everybody else is doing. Nintendo needs to find a way to be themselves but make it fresh. Not just pick up the lead from EA.

#35 Edited by McTangle (157 posts) -

Super Wii U XL Mario Bros. NEW (Coming 2014)

#36 Posted by Sweep (8782 posts) -

Moved this to the Unwinnable State forum.

Moderator
#37 Edited by Snail (8574 posts) -

You guys all suck is what.

#38 Posted by Winternet (8000 posts) -

@sweep said:

Moved this to the Unwinnable State forum.

I wish more threads were moved to the Unwinnable State.

#39 Posted by RazielCuts (2906 posts) -

@sweep: God the description for that is haunting when you pair it with Nintendo when reading it 'when the actions make it so that they can no longer *compete in the game. However, the game continues as though it is still possible to finish and win.'

#41 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

@frankfartmouth: Man, are you fucking serious? I said that the way they need to innovate is to add fuckin' voice acting? You know what I hate? When people like you come along and take my words and twist them because someone doesn't like the thing they are a fanboy of.

I didn't say that my problem with Nintendo was a lack of innovation. I said my problem was a lack of modernization. They are stuck in the past, and that is detrimental to their game design.

And yes, good voice acting would be better than listening to the fucking "wah wah wah" bullshit, especially with that damn tutorial lady. I would still have wanted to shoot her in the damn face for wasting so much of my time, but at least I would have had a voice to listen to instead of having to read the damn text. It would have let them move the text along oh so much faster, and made it much more interesting.

If you can't accept that Nintendo is stuck in the past, that's your problem. Don't freakin' twist my words.

The problem with Nintendo isn't the ability to innovate, because there are a lot of really damn good minds there. Stuck doing more fucking 2D mario games instead of evolving.

#42 Posted by Hailinel (23674 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@mordeaniischaos said:

@hailinel said:

@mordeaniischaos said:

It's times like these I'm glad I fucking hate most Nintendo games and hardware because I'm not blinded by nostalgia and loyalism. They make good handhelds, I suppose, not really my thing but I have no reason to really dislike them. Hopefully Nintendo will crash and they will take the people who do know how to make good stuff and bring it up to modern standards.

It always blows my mind that people would actively wish for a company's failure for selfish reasons like this.

So that more good stuff will be made? I won't even play them, I just feel bad knowing how many people are being held back at Nintendo by archaic design.

What archaic design are you talking about? And how would their demise lead to more good stuff? Your logic is completely ass-backwards.

A lot of the more involved primary Nintendo games have pretty awful/old control schemes, they cling to old tropes, and they squander the potential of fantastic games with things like bad controls.

I mean, come on. It's Nintendo. They almost never step away from their old design decisions. Fuck, the writing in Skywards Sword is excellent, other than it taking for fucking ever to get through, and man would the dialogue and stuff be great with some good voice work. But that's not how they do things at Nintendo. They still do things the way they have always done things, and that's a bummer because there aren't a lot of opportunities for people to break out of the mold a bit.

I honestly can't think of any Nintendo games with notably terrible controls. You need to cite some examples here.

And you say that they almost never step away from their old design decisions, and then immediately cite Skyward Sword, which overhauled the controls in some very fundamental ways. Yes, it doesn't have fully-voiced dialog, but that's not exactly what I'd call a deal breaker. It would be nice if they put voice acting in Zelda, but they've stated on numerous occasions that's not what they want for that series, so whatever. And your "no voice acting" argument really only affects those games designed by select teams. You look at other Nintendo titles like Kid Icarus: Uprising, or Fire Emblem: Awakening, or Other M, and there's voice acting all over the place. All three of those games also broke out of their respective series molds in various ways.

So you really need to do a much better job at stating your argument, because it looks more like you're in this thread to bitch for the sake of bitching without understanding what it is you're actually bitching about.

#43 Edited by Daneian (1202 posts) -

@theht said:

what a hell nintendo. what a hell.

I support this Deadly Premonition ER reference.

Online
#44 Edited by MikkaQ (10262 posts) -

At this point Nintendo's value to me is as a portable games company. Their console offerings since the Gamecube days has been pretty abysmal barring a few exceptions.

I really hope the Wii U is the new Virtual Boy though cause I don't want to be playing that thing for 6-8 years, even as a tertiary console.

#45 Edited by GrantHeaslip (1500 posts) -

Guys, @markm and @mordeaniischaos are pretty obviously trolling here. I mean, some of what they're saying is arguably valid, but when it's attached to shit like "It's times like these I'm glad I fucking hate most Nintendo games and hardware [...] Hopefully Nintendo will crash" and "Are these guys even trying anymore?", it's pretty clear that they wanted to piss you off, not start a reasonable discussion.

#46 Posted by Nezza (331 posts) -

I bought my Wii U for the potential of the developers embracing it and producing new and interesting games once they'd found their stride. Basically I was hoping for a giant HD 3DS/DS. Both of those took a while before they became essential gaming purchases.

However, I'm not going to say that I'm not concerned about the current software lineup or the seemingly endless supply of stories about 3rd part developers not supporting the platform. At the moment I do have buyers regret simply because since launch there has been nothing that I've been interested in released. I've bought ZombieU which I see more as a proof of concept, and I picked up Darksiders II and ACIII simply because my local store had them at about 75% off to clear them. I'm not a particular fan of the Mario titles so without that 3rd party support the platform loses a lot of its value for me - especially when Nintendo 1st party titles seems to be so much higher then any others - eg New SMB Wii was £50 when I picked up ACIII for £17. Give me a HD Fire Emblem of the same quality as FE:Awakening and I'll be very happy. Mind you'll still need Nintendo to drop their idiosyncrasies when it comes to UK release dates before I'm totally satisfied - FE:A was only released at the start of last month for example.

I still have hope that the titles will come to justify the purchase. After all I must be one of the few satisfied Vita owners out there thanks to things like PS4:G and Gravity Rush and an amazing version of Little Big Planet, together with a strong line up of smaller indie downloadable titles and upcoming Tearaway.

I think it's becoming obvious that it's going to be a niche player in the new generation. But I hope it occupies a niche full of high quality unique titles taking advantage of the controls available rather then the shovelware that plagued the Wii.

#47 Edited by Slag (3897 posts) -

yeah I'm not seeing either how Wii-U failing would help Nintendo get its' groove back.

people seem to forget that Nintendo's great first party stuff gets a lot of funding from all the fees they get from the third party games on their hardware. And it allows them a lot more creative freedom and more relaxed release schedules than most third parties ever get.

Without their hardware I suspect their software would likely suffer a major quality drop due to less funding, just as Sega's did when Dreamcast went down.

maybe Nintendo struggling is the best thing that could happen, since it might make them take some big creative risks to try to get market share back but still have the funding to actually take said risks.

#48 Posted by MarkM (288 posts) -

Let me break this down.

If you want solid proof that Nintendo doesn't know what they're doing consider the following:

To date. There has not been a single...SINGLE mainline Pokemon title for ANY NINTENDO HOME CONSOLE.

4 people made Star Fox you guys. 4 fucking people.

Now it's 2013 and they've completely fallen off. In our life time we will see Nintendo explode or implode, it has to go one way.

People say, but Mark doesn't Nintendo have billions of dollars and shit?

Who cares? So does Apple and no one gives a shit about Apple anymore.

You're going to wake up one day and Nintendo will be making third party games and Sega will be back to making consoles. Believe that.

#49 Posted by Demoskinos (14512 posts) -

I really wish Nintendo would go software only. Not because I want to see them fail but because I want them to succeed. They are obviously far more versed in creating software than hardware. If they didn't have to support hardware they could focus more directly on what people love about Nintendo. The games.

#50 Posted by Mrsignerman44 (1100 posts) -

No one seems to remember the abysmally slow start up that the ps3 had. What was the joke for like 2 years? PS3 has no games? Boy was that proven wrong. The reason the wii U isn't selling is simply because it doesn't have anything out right now.