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#1 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

https://twitter.com/VOLGARR/status/392773669149085696

since we will see a new ep of breaking bad soon I think this deserves a thread and also if you are interested in the game pls buy it. It is really sad to see great developers and games suffer like this....

You can buy it on steam or if you want DRM free on humble bundle or GOG.

#2 Edited by gike987 (1769 posts) -

Completely useless statistics.

#3 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

Didn't something very similar happen with Hotline Miami? Or am I misremembering that? All I know is that this is a pretty big issue, and that Jeff's "easier than free" mantra may not cut it.

#4 Posted by rahulricky (260 posts) -

@gike987: sales through bundles would count as purchasing the game. I don't understand what you mean by useless statistics.

#5 Posted by AlisterCat (5698 posts) -

This always makes me sad.

#6 Posted by RetroMetal (200 posts) -


Its a great game.

Like Rastan.

#7 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

Didn't something very similar happen with Hotline Miami? Or am I misremembering that? All I know is that this is a pretty big issue, and that Jeff's "easier than free" mantra may not cut it.

Haven't heard of Hotline Miami but I knew the same happened with game dev story which was at like 11%. These games are already petty cheap and people still pirate them. It is really sad to see this. That is why more and more AAA also focus more on an integrated MP modus because you need to be online and to have a real copy for that.

#8 Posted by gike987 (1769 posts) -

@video_game_king: It's a complete non issue because most of the pirate probably weren't interested in the game in first place or it weren't "easier than free" for them. People from US tends to forget that not every country have such easy access to everything.

Unless all you want to do is to be vindictive because people are playing it for free these things should be ignored because most pirates are people who would never have bought the game.

#9 Posted by Fear_the_Booboo (578 posts) -

@gike987: Emphasis on "most". While I think you're right for the most part, I still think that some of the 96% really enjoy the game and could buy but won't just because they don't care.

I don't have any moral problem against piracy personnaly, but people downloading game that they could buy without any problem do bother me. I'm pretty sure there's some of them there.

#10 Posted by Ares42 (2770 posts) -

The way it's worded sounds really weird to me. It could mean a lot of different things really. He probably meant bought it, but even then it doesn't say much without a statistic of the 96% others. If he had said 96% of the people playing the game pirated it there would've been some reason for concern, but I'm not really sure that would be a true statement.

#11 Edited by Levio (1785 posts) -

How on Earth could they count the number of pirated copies out there?

#12 Posted by jayjonesjunior (1094 posts) -

Bitching about piracy is stupid.

@levio said:

How on Earth could they count the number of pirated copies out there?

Number of people on the leaderboards vs number of copies sold? i don't even know if that game has leaderboards.

#13 Edited by cmblasko (1317 posts) -

Pirating a $12 game? Lots of broke students out there, I guess.

#14 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@cmblasko said:

Pirating a $12 game? Lots of broke students out there, I guess.

I am a broke student as well. In fact i can not buy a Ps4 now at launch because my washing machine and dishwasher finally broke. But that doesn't mean I will pirate games or steal a washing machine^^

#15 Posted by Humanity (9825 posts) -

@darji said:

@cmblasko said:

Pirating a $12 game? Lots of broke students out there, I guess.

I am a broke student as well. In fact i can not buy a Ps4 now at launch because my washing machine and dishwasher finally broke. But that doesn't mean I will pirate games or steal a washing machine^^

If you could steal a washing machine then hats off, you deserve to have it.

#16 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@humanity said:

If you could steal a washing machine then hats off, you deserve to have it.

Well, I heard that laundry companies put DRM on your dryers so you're forced to buy a washing machine, too. Damn corporate greed.

#17 Posted by ThunderSlash (1906 posts) -

pls seed this washing machine + crack, i need it

#18 Edited by StrikeALight (1114 posts) -

Thats terrible, and a shame.

#19 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@humanity said:

@darji said:

@cmblasko said:

Pirating a $12 game? Lots of broke students out there, I guess.

I am a broke student as well. In fact i can not buy a Ps4 now at launch because my washing machine and dishwasher finally broke. But that doesn't mean I will pirate games or steal a washing machine^^

If you could steal a washing machine then hats off, you deserve to have it.

#20 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3961 posts) -

Frankly I find it hard to believe it's that extreme. But maybe I'm just ignorant.

Now if only the second level wasn't so whack I'd have the urge to go back and finally beat the boss... I will here at some point.

#21 Posted by Grissefar (2842 posts) -

Not only is free shit but it also fucks up that which is not.

#22 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3961 posts) -

Bitching about piracy is stupid.

I'm sure if money was being taken out of your pocket it'd be a different story. Don't sit on the sidelines and criticize those who are affected from merely mentioning it.

#23 Edited by Humanity (9825 posts) -

@humanity said:

If you could steal a washing machine then hats off, you deserve to have it.

Well, I heard that laundry companies put DRM on your dryers so you're forced to buy a washing machine, too. Damn corporate greed.

You only get 2 installs in your house before it starts to add dye into every wash?

#24 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@humanity said:

@video_game_king said:

@humanity said:

If you could steal a washing machine then hats off, you deserve to have it.

Well, I heard that laundry companies put DRM on your dryers so you're forced to buy a washing machine, too. Damn corporate greed.

You only get 2 installs in your house before it starts to add dye into every wash?

That would be cool. Or at lest you have to watch a 5 minute set of ads every time you want to wash something. And through Kinect you have to sit in front of the machine or it will not count. I would totally do that if I get a free washing machine^^

#25 Posted by Humanity (9825 posts) -

@darji said:

@humanity said:

@darji said:

@cmblasko said:

Pirating a $12 game? Lots of broke students out there, I guess.

I am a broke student as well. In fact i can not buy a Ps4 now at launch because my washing machine and dishwasher finally broke. But that doesn't mean I will pirate games or steal a washing machine^^

If you could steal a washing machine then hats off, you deserve to have it.

Seriously, dood lifted an entire machine machine with his bear hands. Props.

#26 Posted by Dietomaha (112 posts) -

@gike987 said:

@video_game_king: It's a complete non issue because most of the pirate probably weren't interested in the game in first place or it weren't "easier than free" for them. People from US tends to forget that not every country have such easy access to everything.

If they're not interested in the game, why does that make it ok for them to play it without paying for it?

It's amazing the excuses pirates use to justify what they're doing. It doesn't matter what the excuse is, you're still stealing something. If you're interested enough to seek it out and download it, then you should pay for it. I feel for the 'not available in your country' folks, but frankly, that doesn't justify stealing it still. Unless you are getting money to that developer somehow, but...yeah, no one does that.

#27 Posted by BeachThunder (12276 posts) -

Volgarr needs trading cards.

#28 Edited by EXTomar (4916 posts) -

@levio said:

How on Earth could they count the number of pirated copies out there?

There are a lot of mechanisms to do this. For instance any time the game has to "check in" like "Scoreboard" or dynamic feature updates, the game can report a "serial number". If they design it correctly, they can identify the vendor the game came from including ones that where pirated.

#29 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@humanity said:

@video_game_king said:

@humanity said:

If you could steal a washing machine then hats off, you deserve to have it.

Well, I heard that laundry companies put DRM on your dryers so you're forced to buy a washing machine, too. Damn corporate greed.

You only get 2 installs in your house before it starts to add dye into every wash?

Even worse. Your dryer can function as a washer, too. It's just that they put DRM in there so you have to buy two machines instead of one.

#30 Edited by sparkysanxion (48 posts) -

A 96% piracy rate seems particularly high to me. We all know games get pirated (especially on the Pc where it's "relatively" easy)....but only 4% of active players bought it?

Damn!

:(

#31 Edited by Dezztroy (850 posts) -

@extomar said:

@levio said:

How on Earth could they count the number of pirated copies out there?

There are a lot of mechanisms to do this. For instance any time the game has to "check in" like "Scoreboard" or dynamic feature updates, the game can report a "serial number". If they design it correctly, they can identify the vendor the game came from including ones that where pirated.

Most crackers who know what they're doing would get rid of any "phone-home" stuff. There are also going to be people playing a pirated copy not connected to the internet.

Bottom line is, it's impossible to get a number that is even remotely accurate.

#32 Edited by Kidavenger (3599 posts) -

I like that their website advertises that the game is DRM free!

At this point anyone that has a problem dealing with Steam or even Origin, Uplay or any other online service should just be told to fuck off, stop playing games. Don't come at me with stupid edge cases, I don't give a fuck, you hillbilly fuckers are ruining things for the rest of us and I'm sick of it.

#33 Posted by TobbRobb (4814 posts) -

I wanna say those numbers are bullshit, but hey who knows. It is a niche game after all.

#34 Posted by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -

@gike987 said:

@video_game_king: It's a complete non issue because most of the pirate probably weren't interested in the game in first place or it weren't "easier than free" for them. People from US tends to forget that not every country have such easy access to everything.

Unless all you want to do is to be vindictive because people are playing it for free these things should be ignored because most pirates are people who would never have bought the game.

That's asinine.

You're probably one of those people who would hire the services of a graphic designer or photographer and then refuse to pay them saying "but you're getting all this free publicity, and I'll tell everyone what a good job you did!"

If they care enough to play the game, then they should pay for it. It's the only right thing. Justifying their lack of desire to pay for it is just pathetic and devoid of any kind of logic.

Besides, the reason they probably have no interest in paying for it is because they pirate so many games that they are never bored enough to pay for anything. They always have alternatives to play because they have an infinite supply of games they've stolen.

#35 Posted by Fear_the_Booboo (578 posts) -

@artisanbreads: The second boss is not that bad. Brad needs to understand that he can get out of the water without having to throw spears and get the timing right and everything will be fine. I killed it on my third try (then again, I have 100% on super meat boy so maybe I'm in the minority here).

That said, that fucking third level is insane...

#36 Posted by gike987 (1769 posts) -

@gike987 said:

@video_game_king: It's a complete non issue because most of the pirate probably weren't interested in the game in first place or it weren't "easier than free" for them. People from US tends to forget that not every country have such easy access to everything.

If they're not interested in the game, why does that make it ok for them to play it without paying for it?

It's amazing the excuses pirates use to justify what they're doing. It doesn't matter what the excuse is, you're still stealing something. If you're interested enough to seek it out and download it, then you should pay for it. I feel for the 'not available in your country' folks, but frankly, that doesn't justify stealing it still. Unless you are getting money to that developer somehow, but...yeah, no one does that.

I'm not saying it's ok to pirate. I'm explaining why piracy rates doesn't matter. All that matters is sales, and no those wouldn't be much higher if the game was impossible to pirate.

#37 Posted by Salarn (465 posts) -

~90% piracy rate on PC games is pretty much the industry standard.

#38 Posted by tourgen (4542 posts) -

Yeah that sucks for him.

What that should tell him is that his price point is too high. 4% bought his game at $12. His game doesn't look like a $12-$15 game to me. Games are easier to make than ever. More supply of good games is going to apply a downward pressure to game prices. This is actually a good thing and a healthy thing for the industry.

The innovators and the truly new and unique creators are still going to get paid $$$. Remaking Rastan isn't necessarily going to make you rich though. He should have shot for a dev process that supported a $1-$5 price point.

#39 Edited by EXTomar (4916 posts) -

@dezztroy said:

@extomar said:

@levio said:

How on Earth could they count the number of pirated copies out there?

There are a lot of mechanisms to do this. For instance any time the game has to "check in" like "Scoreboard" or dynamic feature updates, the game can report a "serial number". If they design it correctly, they can identify the vendor the game came from including ones that where pirated.

Most crackers who know what they're doing would get rid of any "phone-home" stuff. There are also going to be people playing a pirated copy not connected to the internet.

Bottom line is, it's impossible to get a number that is even remotely accurate.

Hmm, no...most crackers don't care. Why put work into disabling and reworking minor features that could introduce random bugs when they can could just play the game instead?

#40 Edited by Salarn (465 posts) -

@tourgen said:

Yeah that sucks for him.

What that should tell him is that his price point is too high. 4% bought his game at $12. His game doesn't look like a $12-$15 game to me. Games are easier to make than ever. More supply of good games is going to apply a downward pressure to game prices. This is actually a good thing and a healthy thing for the industry.

The innovators and the truly new and unique creators are still going to get paid $$$. Remaking Rastan isn't necessarily going to make you rich though. He should have shot for a dev process that supported a $1-$5 price point.

That's completely irrelevant, $1~$5 apps have the same ~90% piracy rate as $15, $30, $60, etc priced PC games. The price point has no significant impact on piracy.

If the game doesn't look like it's worth $12 then don't buy it, that's fine. The issue here is the people stealing the game for whatever justification they care to come up with. Considering it's a PC game, on steam, if $12 is too much, just wait 90 days and get it for 80% off.

#41 Edited by NoelVeiga (1104 posts) -

@dezztroy said:

Most crackers who know what they're doing would get rid of any "phone-home" stuff. There are also going to be people playing a pirated copy not connected to the internet.

Bottom line is, it's impossible to get a number that is even remotely accurate.

No, they really wouldn't. Since the "phone home" stuff here is leaderboards, they wouldn't touch that unless it's also tied to DRM. Since the game is DRM-free, which means no "crack" is needed, I bet a bunch of people are torrenting the humble bundle or GOG builds and just playing that.

Which means their numbers are perfectly accurate, by using this formula: "number of leaderboard entries - number of sales = number of people playing it without paying".

I know, I know. Math. It's hard.

I'm wondering why people take issue with this, though. The team chose to make the game DRM free, and they're not asking to imprison pirates, just thanking the people who chose to buy the game (you're welcome!). If it makes you feel morally wrong for having pirated it... well, you should, the game is cheap and pretty good, so maybe go buy it. Otherwise, these guys are going about it in the best possible way.

#42 Posted by Fear_the_Booboo (578 posts) -

@tourgen: Seriously ?

I mean I do get how it looks like a little old game but that is a pretty closed-minded point of view.

The design in this game is insanely intricate. The levels are super hard but feel really easy if you know what you're doing and they're fair. That kind of difficulty takes a lot of playtesting to make and is really hard to pull off. I think they succeeded with this game.


Developping a game like this ain't easy. 15$ is still cheap for that kind of product I think.

#43 Posted by kindgineer (2789 posts) -

@gike987 said:

@video_game_king: It's a complete non issue because most of the pirate probably weren't interested in the game in first place or it weren't "easier than free" for them. People from US tends to forget that not every country have such easy access to everything.

Unless all you want to do is to be vindictive because people are playing it for free these things should be ignored because most pirates are people who would never have bought the game.

I'm not going to say you're completely wrong, but you seem to have some out-worldly idea that every gamer who can get a copy, and can afford it, will purchase it. People aren't that honest on the streets, and that is enough of evidence to proclaim they aren't that honest, sitting behind a computer screen.

#44 Edited by EXTomar (4916 posts) -

For the record I am all for more developers, especially Indie sized groups, to point this out. Do not shame but be very clear what has happened. They aren't going to stop pirates but they should thank and celebrate those who did choose to buy.

#45 Edited by gike987 (1769 posts) -

@kindgineer: Sure there are some of those too, they also wouldn't have bought if you couldn't pirate it. There are also many crazy people who download every new game torrent and never play the games. It still makes piracy rates useless.

#46 Edited by Sinusoidal (1738 posts) -

Not that I doubt these stats exactly, but how do they collect them? Last time I checked, people who pirate games weren't exactly reliably reporting it.

Reminds me of the "Everyone swallows X number of spiders in their sleep throughout their lifetime." stupidity that pops up every so often.

#47 Posted by Gonmog (602 posts) -
#48 Posted by ArtisanBreads (3961 posts) -

@artisanbreads: The second boss is not that bad. Brad needs to understand that he can get out of the water without having to throw spears and get the timing right and everything will be fine. I killed it on my third try (then again, I have 100% on super meat boy so maybe I'm in the minority here).

That said, that fucking third level is insane...

I have been close to beating it. It's not that it's hard really at all it's just I don't like the theme or aesthetic compared to the first level. It's like a lame techno Atlantis.

#49 Posted by Chaser324 (6715 posts) -

@sinusoidal: # of copies sold / # of users on leaderboard = approximate % of people playing legit

Obviously the number of users counted on a leaderboard (or a similar analytic) won't be exactly correct due to there possibly being some people playing entirely offline, but it's going to be pretty damn close.

Moderator
#50 Posted by RonGalaxy (3261 posts) -

Hopefully its 4% of a whole shitload. I'm guessing it isn't though, so this is depressing.