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#1 Edited by TastyBread (39 posts) -

Maybe I'm just a special case, but provided that what Microsoft has said about its used game approach (as opposed to Internet meanderings) is true, is it really that bad? I come from a camp that believes the developer should be able to make as much money as possible for the entertainment they make. They've been doing it forever on pc, why not consoles? But more importantly, if the advantage with used games is being able to buy titles at a discount, why not just wait for the game to go on sale? I bought Dishonored, brand new for the 360 two weeks ago for $12 on amazon. I have consistently found titles go on sale. So much in fact that I can't remember the last time I bought a used game. It's worked out for me extremely well. Why don't more people feel this way? You don't even make much money selling back to GameStop so why do people care?

This is my first post by the way. Asked the same question on NeoGaf and got banned. I don't understand that place. Hope things go better here.

#2 Edited by TooWalrus (13255 posts) -
#3 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

You're not a special case. Or the only one. You are not a unique flower.

#4 Posted by SathingtonWaltz (2053 posts) -

@sooty said:

You're not a special case. Or the only one. You are not a unique flower.

That's a little harsh!

#5 Posted by TastyBread (39 posts) -

@toowalrus: I've read that, and believe it, but even though that article exists, it seems that lately everyone on the Internet denies it and refers to hating on the system. I think Microsoft at least deserves a chance to prove themselves.

#6 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3885 posts) -
#7 Edited by onyxghost (319 posts) -

I can't remember the last used game I bought. I'm usually there in the first week or two. At that point GameStop only has like a $5 differance between new and used.

#8 Edited by kishan6 (1914 posts) -

@sooty said:

You're not a special case. Or the only one. You are not a unique flower.

That's a little harsh!

If youre on giant bomb you should ever start a thread with "Am I the only one who....."

#9 Posted by TastyBread (39 posts) -

@kishan6: Sorry, first post. Not wise to the GiantBomb etiquette yet.

#10 Edited by oraknabo (1514 posts) -

I've seen posts from a lot of people who think always online or unreasonable fees all sound fine, but they all come off as being incapable of conceiving that many other people aren't in exactly the same situation they are in terms of internet connection reliability or income or whatever else.

Many of them also seem a lot more interested in making excuses for a corporation that probably doesn't even care that they exist instead of their own rights as a consumer.

#11 Posted by Quipido (654 posts) -

@tastybread: I agree with the notion of buing a licence to play a game, not a physical thing I am free to do anything with, including re-selling it. Same with the recent discussion on Bombcast about inheriting iTunes library - I have been an Apple custommer for years and every time I buy album or app, I buy that for myself and I wouldn't even think about someone else using that license when I am gone.

All that said, I am still probably gonna prefer PS4 because I have a limited income and as long as I am wihin laws of my country, I don't feel any urge to advance the industry by supporting XONE. We live in a society driven by money, sad but true.

Also in this gen I have been buyin about 50/50 games new/used and you are right that even new games can be bought relatively cheaply. One just has to addapt to his current situation and market opportunities.

#12 Posted by isomeri (1388 posts) -

@oraknabo said:

I've seen posts from a lot of people who think always online or unreasonable fees all sound fine, but they all come off as being incapable of conceiving that many other people aren't in exactly the same situation they are in terms of internet connection reliability or income or whatever else.

Many of them also seem a lot more interested in making excuses for a corporation that probably doesn't even care that they exist instead of their own rights as a consumer.

I'm a student and within national standards I am living in poverty. I'm still totally OK with these rumored used games restrictions and the internet connectivity stuff. I'd rather Microsoft, publishers and developers make money than GameStop.

#13 Edited by Liquidus (946 posts) -

This notion of just waiting a couple of months for a game have a significant price drop is purely an American thing from what I've seen. I'm Canadian and let me tell you, most games that came out in fall 2012 are still full price $60 here. The best price drop here will be like $40 for a console game...MAYBE $30.

#14 Posted by TastyBread (39 posts) -

@liquidus: Maybe For brick and mortar stores, what about online shops? I usually get brand-new games on Amazon.com with considerable savings. Cheaper than buying used in a lot of situations.

#15 Posted by Brendan (8025 posts) -

I'm just glad that judging by the most complete info, I'll still be able to rent games.

#16 Posted by Jay_Ray (1118 posts) -

@liquidus: Maybe For brick and mortar stores, what about online shops? I usually get brand-new games on Amazon.com with considerable savings. Cheaper than buying used in a lot of situations.

Amazon.ca is getting better but not close to the deals it sounds like Amazon.com get. Dishonored is still $30 on Amazon.ca and while some titles like Hitman are now $20 that still isn't a great deal.

#17 Edited by TastyBread (39 posts) -

@jay_ray: $30 for dishonored is still a pretty awesome price. I was surprised by how much I liked that game.

I think that part of the reason why none of this bothers me is because I've never been the type to buy a game the day it's released. The only exceptions have been the halos and bioshocks. Otherwise I have no problem waiting a month

#18 Edited by HatKing (6063 posts) -

@tastybread:

The irony here is every time a thread opens like this, some internet-conformist asshole has to drop that ubiquitous line.

I'm fully sick of seeing first time posters get dragged over the coals for breaking some unspoken rule. This community used to be welcoming, not elitist. This backwards mindset is rooted in why people associate the negative stigmas they do with video games and the video game community. When somebody makes a post we should reply to the content, not nitpick at phantom guidelines. Exclusivity sucks. Welcome to GiantBomb.

In reply to topic:
I'm with you. If - big if - Microsoft does go the route that was initially rumored - a surcharge for used game sales - I don't think that's necessarily the end of the world. It does feel like people were ready to jump ship at that idea, which is weird because, to me, it's their focus on everything but video games that drew my concern. In reality, the games market is in trouble. There's no denying that when you see the company, once responsible for saving video games as a medium, struggling to stay afloat, that there is a larger issue. It's not just poor marketing or odd design choices that's hurting Nintendo. There's been many, many studios that have closed up shop after putting out critically successful games. I don't know that this is problem-solving, but we're clearly not in the right situation now, and it's a shot at change. I, for one, want to see video games expand. I want it to be weird when somebody admits they don't play video games, just like if somebody said "I don't watch movies" or "I don't read books." But, if that's going to happen, the medium has to last long enough to expand.

Then again, I'm no economist, I don't really know what can solve the problems. Maybe the market is just shifting. Maybe this is just growing pains.

#19 Posted by bslayer (222 posts) -

You're definitely not alone. Plus, if the developers can get some of that used game fee, that would be amazing.

#20 Posted by alanm26v5 (462 posts) -

There is so much conflicting information out there and it seems like every couple of hours, there's a new article published that claims to clarify the whole thing. Microsoft really screwed up, and should have just told everyone that works and speaks for them that they're not ready to talk about the subject until they figure out something official. I can't remember what article said it since there have been so many, but what made the most sense to me was one saying that used game stores will have to pay a fee to Microsoft and the publisher out of the profit from the used game sale. My only concern then becomes what happens if I want to privately sell a game, but we won't know for sure until more is revealed. I don't buy PC games from private sellers online because there's no way to be sure the serial key hasn't already been claimed, and I haven't been able to sell PC used games for years, so maybe this isn't as big of a deal.

Also, welcome to the Giant Bomb forums.

#21 Posted by NoobSauceG7 (1262 posts) -

It's not that I like used games since I buy all my games new, it is just cases like bringing a game to a friends house and not being able to play it without going through some hopes or not being able to play it at all. What about the scenario too where your console breaks, how does it transfer your content, especially in the future where the servers holding my Xbox One data is being held.

#22 Edited by spraynardtatum (3520 posts) -

Why should video games be treated differently than anything else?

If you go to:

  • Craigslist
  • Ebay
  • Amazon
  • real second hand kind of stores located in buildings

you can buy these sorts of used items:

  • table
  • artwork
  • plant
  • DVD
  • VHS
  • CD
  • CAR
  • Houses
  • Real estate
  • Video Game
  • Book
  • Speaker
  • Chair
  • Computer
  • Musical Instruments

Why does Microsoft want videogames to be like:

stuff you can't buy used:

  • toothbrush
  • rotten things
  • toilet paper
  • garbage
  • landfills
  • radiation
  • money
  • medical syringes
  • broken lamps
  • coffee

?

#23 Edited by Humanity (9869 posts) -

@hatking said:

@tastybread:

The irony here is every time a thread opens like this, some internet-conformist asshole has to drop that ubiquitous line.

I'm fully sick of seeing first time posters get dragged over the coals for breaking some unspoken rule. This community used to be welcoming, not elitist. This backwards mindset is rooted in why people associate the negative stigmas they do with video games and the video game community. When somebody makes a post we should reply to the content, not nitpick at phantom guidelines. Exclusivity sucks. Welcome to GiantBomb.

In reply to topic:

I'm with you. If - big if - Microsoft does go the route that was initially rumored - a surcharge for used game sales - I don't think that's necessarily the end of the world. It does feel like people were ready to jump ship at that idea, which is weird because,

to me

, it's their focus on everything but video games that drew my concern. In reality, the games market is in trouble. There's no denying that when you see the company, once responsible for saving video games as a medium, struggling to stay afloat, that there is a larger issue. It's not just poor marketing or odd design choices that's hurting Nintendo. There's been many, many studios that have closed up shop after putting out critically successful games. I don't know that

this

is problem-solving, but we're clearly not in the right situation now, and it's a shot at change. I, for one, want to see video games expand. I want it to be weird when somebody admits they don't play video games, just like if somebody said "I don't watch movies" or "I don't read books." But, if that's going to happen, the medium has to last long enough to expand.

Then again, I'm no economist, I don't really know what can solve the problems. Maybe the market is just shifting. Maybe this is just growing pains.

Yeah nothing to apologize for. You've made a way more intelligent thread than some people that have been around for years. If you stick around you'll learn that @sooty is quite an eccentric.

I also don't see a huge issue with the scant few facts we've heard. Although I'm an adult with a regular income so I'm not part of the demographic that would feel they are losing out on something with this change in policy.

#24 Posted by StarvingGamer (8472 posts) -

Isn't Microsoft's current stance to have no stance? Or something?

#25 Edited by TheManWithNoPlan (5903 posts) -

Over the last few years I've bought used games less and less. So, while I think a used game market that's free of any extra financial gates is important, it's doesn't factor into my decision of buying a new console.

#26 Posted by Abendlaender (2867 posts) -

stuff you can't buy used:

  • toothbrush
  • rotten things
  • toilet paper
  • garbage
  • medical syringes
  • broken lamps
  • coffee

?

I can offer you all of these items used and for a good price too! PM me if you are interested.

#27 Posted by Superfriend (1579 posts) -

@sooty said:

You're not a special case. Or the only one. You are not a unique flower.

#28 Edited by Milkman (17200 posts) -

The problem with Microsoft's stance on used games is not that I don't like it, it's that I don't know what it is.

#29 Edited by Orbitz (67 posts) -

You've made some great points OP.

Coming from my perspective, sometimes I sell my old games to brick and mortar independent shops in my local area just to get a few extra bucks here and there, I never sell anything to GameStop because I can't get anything from them except store credit. It's not exactly like I NEED the handful of bucks that I get from selling to independent used game shops, But it's something that makes me feel like I'm getting some extra value out of my purchase. When I'm done with a handful of games or a console I can sell it to these places and usually get enough actual money to spend on other things. It's just a nice bonus, in my opinion, to the used game market -- and I don't mean GameStop.

I'd also like to mention that I buy old games for old consoles on occasion and if I can't do that with these new consoles after their lifespan is up, I would be very disappointed.

Just my two cents.

#30 Posted by MarkM (298 posts) -

All they're doing is charging an activation serial for every single used game. Game companies did it on an individual basis with online passes, but now MS has it built through their own channel. They want to fix the price of used games for their console. Maybe it'll lead to cheap online sales on their new marketplace. Most likely you'll still be paying twice as much per game than you would on PC.

#31 Posted by Buckhannah (5 posts) -

@kishan6 said:

If youre on giant bomb you should ever start a thread with "Am I the only one who....."

You should never start a thread with that in the title on any forum. Ever.

Plenty of people are ok with it. The implications of the need to check in to register a game before we play, then the need to check back in every 24 hours to prove we are not thieves, don't sit well with me, and are enough to warrant my firm decision to not buy the system, ever. What if Anonymous decides they don't like the system and attacks the XBL servers? I get home with a brand new sixty dollar game, and I can't play it because their servers are messed up? Not cool.

As for the used games set up, I just find the entire system scummy, and quite frankly, of questionable legality.

#32 Edited by AiurFlux (902 posts) -

Of course not. But the whole, "Used games are the devil," thing is so out of touch it isn't funny. Everything gets resold. Everything. Even food from the supermarket is resold since it originally comes from a producer. I get that they want more money but honestly they don't deserve more money. They already got it from the original purchase. If I sell my car tomorrow and the day following that I get a representative from the manufacturer asking for their cut I'd tell them to go fuck themselves. This is a very very slippery slope. Because while it might start with games it will infest itself upon movies, music, and potentially even cars or houses. Make no mistake about it.

There is this thing called the free market. Whether or not you agree with it is one thing, but it's there and in no way should it be impeded by people wanting an additional taste. It's absurd. In no way will it help the consumer. Prices will stay the same if not actually increase due to development costs and inflation.

#33 Posted by Buckhannah (5 posts) -

Gamers wouldn't trade in or sell so many of their games if they were worth keeping. But the bulk of companies shit out mediocre games at that stupid fixed sixty dollar price. If the used game market has wounded the industry in any way, it's a self inflicted wound. Make games that are worth keeping and can hold gamers attention for more than a week or two after it comes out, and price them according to their actual content. (not all games need to be the same price, that idea is absurd)

#34 Edited by Subjugation (4734 posts) -

No, used games should stick around and continue to be just like they are so that developers don't see any of that money. /s

I don't understand people who argue in favor of that point.

I can't remember the last used game I bought. I'm not even sure if I've ever bought one. Be judicious with your purchases, wait a little bit, or maybe even come to the realization that maybe you can't afford to buy something. If money is that tight then you are probably better off not spending it on games.

#35 Edited by Buckhannah (5 posts) -

No, used games should stick around and continue to be just like they are so that developers don't see any of that money. /s

I don't understand people who argue in favor of that point.

Ok, let's do away with the used games market. Now instead of developers not seeing any money because people bought the game used, they will not see any money because people didn't buy it at all.

#36 Edited by mordukai (7184 posts) -

@sooty said:

You're not a special case. Or the only one. You are not a unique flower.

That's a little harsh!

Naaa. Sometimes people need the cold hard truth.

#37 Posted by BigJeffrey (5147 posts) -

So you want to play games that take millions to make and give nothing to the developer. I too have no problem with their stance on used games/

#38 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@aiurflux said:

Of course not. But the whole, "Used games are the devil," thing is so out of touch it isn't funny. Everything gets resold. Everything. Even food from the supermarket is resold since it originally comes from a producer. I get that they want more money but honestly they don't deserve more money. They already got it from the original purchase. If I sell my car tomorrow and the day following that I get a representative from the manufacturer asking for their cut I'd tell them to go fuck themselves. This is a very very slippery slope. Because while it might start with games it will infest itself upon movies, music, and potentially even cars or houses. Make no mistake about it.

There is this thing called the free market. Whether or not you agree with it is one thing, but it's there and in no way should it be impeded by people wanting an additional taste. It's absurd. In no way will it help the consumer. Prices will stay the same if not actually increase due to development costs and inflation.

Gamestops way of used sales is EVIL.

Games should not be allowed to be sold used until 6 months after launch or so in stores. That would help drastically. Same with renting. New games should not be allowed to be rent in the first place. Or give the developer/publisher some cut.

#39 Edited by SniperXan (223 posts) -

This might have been said already, but for me it's not all about finding games on the cheap (although that certainly is part of it) but finding old game that are well out of print. I'm afraid of the day a pub goes under and I can't find a certain game anymore because used games don't exist. That would suck.

#40 Edited by Andorski (5352 posts) -

So you want to play games that take millions to make and give nothing to the developer. I too have no problem with their stance on used games/

Someone paid for that game in the first place. My father just bought a 2011 Lexus from a friend. Should I tell him to shoot over to Lexus HQ a couple grand for the work they did in designing and producing that vehicle?

#41 Posted by Subjugation (4734 posts) -

@subjugation said:

No, used games should stick around and continue to be just like they are so that developers don't see any of that money. /s

I don't understand people who argue in favor of that point.

Ok, let's do away with the used games market. Now instead of developers not seeing any money because people bought the game used, they will not see any money because people didn't buy it at all.

So the people who have been buying the games new, just as they have been this entire time, will somehow magically disappear if the used market went away? What? Or are you trying to say that people can buy the games used, where developers won't see any of that money, or they can not buy it at all because the option doesn't exist, and developers still won't see any of that money? Either way, that isn't exactly making a strong case.

#42 Posted by TastyBread (39 posts) -

@andorski: Jesus I hate this argument. Games are different. Not only do you not buy 5-10 cars a year, but the game industry already has examples where you can't sell a game after you bought it. You can't resale a pc game that you physically buy at the store. You also can't resale mobile phone games, xbLA, PSN, or any other downloadable game.

#43 Posted by chrissedoff (2159 posts) -

I don't care either. I haven't bought a used video game since early 2009 and honestly I'm none the poorer for buying games new. I don't even think that the used game market exerts much downward pressure on video game prices, so I honestly think the only thing people really should be afraid of is if Microsoft decides to approach the X1's marketplace pricing the same way they did with the 360. Personally, I think they'll ultimately make more money by emulating Steam, but it's impossible to know what their real plans are until the system is out. People should stay calm until they actually know they're getting screwed, but maybe all the panic and rage will scare Microsoft into tailoring their new philosophy to be more consumer-friendly than it otherwise would have been.

#44 Edited by Andorski (5352 posts) -

@andorski: Jesus I hate this argument. Games are different. Not only do you not buy 5-10 cars a year, but the game industry already has examples where you can't sell a game after you bought it. You can't resale a pc game that you physically buy at the store. You also can't resale mobile phone games, xbLA, PSN, or any other downloadable game.

Movies, TV shows on DVD/Blu-Ray, and music CDs. Games are not special. Every other form of physical entertainment media does not prevent its users from trading/reselling. Back when PC games did not hit a server to verify its DRM status (and instead used a simple CD key), you could resell, trade, and borrow them. It's not a coincidence that the rise of online verification of PC games occurred at the same time PC game retail started to die off.

Now, downloadable games cannot depreciate in value due to it not being a physical product. Luckily, digital distribution has been figured out for PC gaming by various companies: PC gamers do not own their games - they license them. In return, savings from not producing a physical product moves down to the consumer. The method of purchasing games have also been made easier than going to a store.

MS is essentially trying to have all their physical media be treated as if it was digital media. That would be okay for people who are use to all digital game libraries, except MS has never shown its willingness to pass on the benefits of digital distribution to their customers. They are not flexible with their pricing structure; they rarely have sales and never let games have permanent price drops. MS also does not allow for DLC to be given for free, as if there is any substantial cost to distribute that content. Also, the current understanding of how games can be used on multiple systems is extremely convoluted. It sounds as complex, if not more, than how people would have Steam on multiple PCs. Isn't one of the main draws for console gaming that it's a much easier experience compared to PC gaming?

This is why people are making a fuss over how MS is handling game content on their system, and there is no way to justify it. Now, if MS comes around and changes their practices concerning digital distribution, than maybe this perplexing system of dealing with used games wouldn't be so bad. But seriously, who expected MS to change their current ways?

#45 Posted by ajamafalous (12129 posts) -

@sooty said:

You're not a special case. Or the only one. You are not a unique flower.

#46 Posted by SexualBubblegumX (542 posts) -

@tastybread: Uh yeah I can sell I used PC title, I can Sell to some one I know Directly or sell it on Ebay. Box copies still exist man.

#47 Posted by chrissedoff (2159 posts) -

@sooty said:

You're not a special case. Or the only one. You are not a unique flower.

Am I the only one who's sick of the same pedants emerging every time somebody use a harmless figure of speech in a thread title?

#48 Posted by SharkEthic (1062 posts) -

@ajamafalous said:

@sooty said:

You're not a special case. Or the only one. You are not a unique flower.

Am I the only one who's sick of the same pedants emerging every time somebody use a harmless figure of speech in a thread title?

You're not a special case. Or the only one. You are not a unique flower. Because I'm fucking sick of it as well.

#49 Edited by Freshbandito (689 posts) -

@chrissedoff said:

@ajamafalous said:

@sooty said:

You're not a special case. Or the only one. You are not a unique flower.

Am I the only one who's sick of the same pedants emerging every time somebody use a harmless figure of speech in a thread title?

Am I the only one who's not a special case or a unique flower?

The Giant bomb community can be so up it's own arse about memetic commentary like this that I find the absolute certainty that someone will trot out this 'zinger' to be wholly disappointing.

We should try to be more welcoming, we're becoming the slaughtered lamb of gaming websites.

#50 Posted by JasonR86 (9763 posts) -

The only thing I know for certain following the Xbox One announcement is that Microsoft is a terribly run company with terrible PR.