Forza 5 will not work without day one update.

Not sure how I feel about this.

On one hand they are spinning it as a way to add content right up to release. On the other, it's essentially a broken game on a disc that doesn't work unless you update it as soon as you put it in your console.

In reality, it won't affect many people unless their servers are broken on day one but I doubt that would be an issue. There probably won't be that many people with Forza 5 on launch day.

The real problem is that people are essentially buying a game that doesn't work. It's not new for people who buy PC games in a box that need to be patched to work but this isn't an online only game.

Crap i guess i'll be sitting in my cold dark room with a xbox one that requires a day 1 patch, with a copy of Forza 5 that i can't play. FUKK

Personally it doesn't matter to me. I have blazing fast Internet, so downloads are irrelevant to me. If the servers don't work for a few hours or day, I don't really care. Not really one of those people who freak out because I have to wait a bit to play a game.

The only troublesome thing is that the disc is essentially an unfinished game. I guess they will put stickers on all the boxes stating that you need to connect, but it's still weird. I'm sure there will be people who buy it blindly and then be stuck with a game that doesn't work because they don't have Internet for whatever reason.

How are they justifying this?

@benpicko: they are saying that they are working on content right up to launch and will be adding tons of new stuff on day one as DLC. Day one free DLC is fine but this stuff is required for the game to function.

In reality they aren't going to have the game done in time for discs to be pressed and it's a huge launch title that needs to be on shelves.

It really won't affect people who are buying and xbox one and have Internet access, but you know people need any reason to start crying. Guess it depends on how fast your Internet is and how well their servers will handle the load.

I wonder if this is something with them realizing there will be no Driving Avatar (Can't make me say their dumb name for it) AI data on Day 1. I'm wondering if the patch ends up adding some generic or dev made Driving Avatar's for the game to use.

I kind of doubt they got this far into development without making some kind of default AI. At least, I hope not.

Ehhh, Microsoft has been on the ball when it comes to infrastructure, servers rarely go down and if they do they are back in 30 min.

By it being 2013 and every game already having a day one patch. The only difference being that rather than needing the patch to play online, you need the patch to play at all. Big whoop.

Also, the console already requires a day one patch anyway. I understand people being worried about having flaky internet with the 24 hour check ins, but are people seriously worried about a single patch that will probably take less than 30 seconds to download, just like every other modern game on the 360 and PS3?

So instead of locking away the game a month before launch for production, they can continue development all the way until launch?

And theres already having to log in once to the internet when you get the console people.

@bigjeffrey: of course. I have complete faith in Live. It's pretty much rock solid. I'm expecting a day or two of weirdness when the console launches but that's no big deal. Their infrastructure is incredible. Hopefully the transition to all the new servers will go smoothly.

Yeah, it really isn't a big deal for most people. Just thought I would throw it out there for some discussion. It doesn't matter to me. Even before the policy change, none of that stuff mattered to me.

The patch will be a large download, probably not the super quick 360 title updates we are used to.

Why is this a surprise? They've already taken a hard line stance on the Xbox One being a machine that needs internet, right? The PS4 was no more free of internet than the Xbox One is - but for some reason this is still a surprise. A day one update has been done in the past, and yeah the idea if shitty from the prospect of them selling something that doesn't work. However, if you wanted to get your panties in a knot about this you should have started a couple years ago.

And once you get this update it's totally fine right? If they fuck up the update and it goes to shit, THEN complain about it. Otherwise don't act all surprised.

@eujin: You wouldn't need a patch for that. You'd just populate the servers with that generic data pre-launch.

I'd imagine that the removal of the 24-hour check in completely fucks their whole "driveatar" system since not everyone is going to be consistently online to get those AI updates. It seemed like that was a big part of the game's design and they probably don't have enough time to remove the system from the game before they have to content lock and print discs.

It's not a big deal.

I'll be curious if this becoming the rule more than the exception, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

Also wouldn't surprise me if this comes with some sort of code that you'll need to input to tie the "Day One DLC" to your account, which would also nullify the ability to trade/resell the game without the person buying it having to buy a new code for it on XBL.

Hell, nothing will surprise me this November except if MS didn't come up with a way to enforce their online focus without enforcing their online focus.

How is this an issue? The X1 requires an internet connection to download that update anyway, and that update is mandatory. Think about it. With the day one update, you'll have been able to download it, so no worries. But without it, you'll be locked out of the console anyway because you'll be on the old check-in policy, the policy the update negates.

This really doesn't make any sense and yeah, of course it won't work without the day one update.

Its a bit different here. They are talking about a huge Patch for Cars Tracks and so on. This is not some small 50 MB patch or so. So i would imagine something between 1 and 3GB or even more.

Since when was a patch a bad thing? I'm all for updates and balances and whatnot. It's free so I really see no reason why this is "different".

This is not really a patch it is pure Content because they can not finish the game in time for the launch otherwise. A Patch fixes stuff and later maybe adds additions. This is content that should have been on the disc in the first place. And if you can not do it in time delay it for 2-3 weeks. Or do not release a retail version at all until it is done.

Think about this. Anyone who is posting on this website, which requires you to be online and login with an account, and complains about this kinda thing... is a fucking idiot.

What if you have to download 3GB or even more and you have a monthly GB limit? A website will never use that much.

That's sweet. You should post something derogatory about peoples' moms next.

Let's put it this way: If you can't get this day one patch for Forza 5 because of "internet" then you can't even play anything on your Xone anyway...So in short, if this is preventing you from getting a copy of Forza 5, then don't bother buying a Xone.

Also@darji stop pulling numbers out of your ass. Until Dan or someone from Turn 10 confirms it's 3gb or whatever then your argument is pointless.

They said it is a huge amount. so It will probably even more.

It's up to the consumer to decide what is best for them before making a purchase. People with bandwidth caps probably know better than to use Steam - Max Payne 3 is roughly 30gb big, not exactly a friendly game to download when you have slow, limited internet access.

Thats why you also can buy the physical copy of the game. But it does not do much if you still have to download a very large potion of the game even you bought the retail version.

Just why I am saying: Delay the retail version for 2 weeks release the digital version on day one and so they would at least be honest and fair.

buy digital

From what I've read, the additional content is merely just cars and tracks so will the One allow you to play the game while the update continues on in the background?

Am I the only person who considers this a big deal? I can't always connect my consoles to the Internet, you know.

I am going to try and just buy games digitally 100% for Xbox One, as I've been doing on my PC for the last year or so. It feels cool to just have EVERYTHING instantly available at the touch of a button :)

So seeing as I will have internet hooked into the console, and I enjoy games being updated, I have no issue with the game needing an update. Iunno if I'll be buying Forza 5 itself though, prolly just Watch_Dogs and... hrm not sure what else at the moment (I'm sure I'l drop money on some other game by the time the system releases :) ).

What if you have to download 3GB or even more and you have a monthly GB limit? A website will never use that much.

Most of the videos on this very website clock in over 1-2GB (the recent 30min rogue legacy video Patrick did is 1GB for example), if you watch other videos on the net you can easily use GBs of data every single day. I have the lowest 'plan' available to me in Canada and I can still download with basic impunity, I literally have no idea what my monthly limit is but I'm decently sure it's above 100GB... I'm also sure that I use more then 100GB per month pretty easily, just from youtube/game videos and trailers, and any games I DL from Steam or elsewhere as well. I also watch TV shows and stuff every week through my broadband, that is usually 1-2GB per episode as well for HD versions of them.

I can't relate to people having slow or capped Internet, but I can understand. This could be an issue if more and more games start requiring day one patches to function. I doubt that will be case. This seems to be related directly to Forza being a launch title.

Internet in America isn't great but it's getting better every day. My ISP gave me a boost that I didn't notice until the steam sale. I'm getting a consistent 80Mbps down and 30Mbps up. It's not the fastest in the world but it's fast enough that I can download 10GB in about 20 minutes. It's getting to speeds where it's actually faster for me to download games rather than drive to the closest store and pick up a physical copy.

And yet again, I'm saying is that this is free. Who cares if there is a day one update that adds cars and additional features they couldn't get on the disc in time for release? I still don't see what the problem is. I'm all for free updates, especially when it's supposedly as massive as you're making it seem. It's free. There really is nothing else to discuss.

@video_game_king: You don't need to always connect it. Just once for this update.

Who fucking cares, I'm getting real tired of people complaining about frivolous crap. It's 2013 duders, if you don't have an internet connection, it's time to get your shit together. You can afford a 500 dollar console, but you can't spare 20 dollars a month? seriously, this is stupid.

@xyzygy:

My consoles may be offline for extended periods of time, even if my computer isn't.

@video_game_king: Do you have wifi? Or at least just plug the computer's ethernet cable in the back. There are definitely workarounds.

@xyzygy:

Yea, I have wifi, but it's the type where I have to choose between browsing the Internet or downloading Liberation Maiden.

I'm going to have to agree with the guy above. It's 2013 and I find it incredibly hard to take anyone seriously when they insist on complaining about Internet access on an Internet forum.

The same thing applies to the Internet mob and their rage over having the console check in once every 24 hours. Both my 360 and PS3 were "always online" this last generation. Unless you live in the middle of nowhere, Internet access is not the hardest thing to acquire.

People complained this gen that games on day one were getting progressively buggier and reliant on future patches to fix them yet a game that full-on doesn't work on day one until you install a massive patch is fine? What if you buy the game years in the future—what if GiantBomb buys the game years in the future for a look back at the Xbox One once the servers are gone and they flat out can't play some games because you have to patch a disk for it to work?

I don't actually find this stuff bad. People assume that they're releasing the same game they would have had there been no patch, but my understanding is this allows the developer more time to work on the game, be that adding more content or fixing bugs. This may also alleviate somewhat the hellish crunch period by prolonging the overall development period which makes the developer lifestyle more sustainable.

I'm just shooting the shit here but this doesn't seem like it could only be a bad thing engineered by the evil "suits".

The console is supposed to get a day one patch, an entirely bigger issue they haven't even addressed for those without a connection.

I assume they'll run into the same problems that the WiiU had with its day one update. Slow, overloaded servers. No matter what, nobody ever seems prepared for these kind of things.

I know i'm not getting an xbone anytime soon, but I'm on the verge of just waiting until the 2nd wave of software shows up for PS4.

So the worst case scenario seems to be that this becomes the norm and all that time spent before on day one patches gets spent on the base game and we just end up with more and more broken games.

"I can afford a $500 console but I can't afford decent internet."

See how dumb this whole thing sounds? It's akin to getting a smartphone but not getting any data plan. They are being honest, they told the press and I'm willing to bet those boxes will have a warning on them for consummers (nobody wants to deal with a lawsuit). Here's the deal; business-wise it makes way more financial sense to release the game on time and just let people download a patch rather than delay the game, manufacture new discs with the patch on them and piss off retailers and shareholders in the process.

Launch games are coming in hot!

@vinny_says: You sound like the guy who was fired a while ago for this kind of comment. What if you live in the country side which not even has internet or only really really slow internet?

You have to think with common sense. They're obviously not going to keep making the version without the content. This update is saying "first editions of the game will not have this content, so download the update plz." They won't keep manufacturing the same copy, ESPECIALLY Turn 10. They release an updated version of their racers with new DLC and cars and tracks for every single one of their games since F3, and it definitely won't stop with F5.

I also did not ever hear of people complaining of patches this gen. Sure I heard of people complain about the bugs, obviously, but who in their right mind would complain about a patch? This is a launch game for a launch system. Cut them some slack; this is not how the entire generation will pan out.

You have to be online to use your XBONE anyway, right?

"WAIT THEY CHANGED WHAT?" - Turn 10

It's not even about people that can't afford internet but rather about consumers taking a bit of responsibility for their own purchases. If you don't like these policies then buy a PS4, which I'm guessing will also have day one patches but who knows. We are getting to the point where unless a product works exactly how the internet masses want it to work then it's the worst thing ever. Companies should develop products with their consumers likes and dislikes in mind but they can't be completely tied to their every whim.

yeah, it is really starting to sound like a WiiU style of launch. I don't think it will be pretty.

The empty refrigerator metaphor MS is using to describe a game on a disk is pretty hilarious too. They just can't help being idiots. God bless them.

@humanity: Day one patches are nothing new and I think they are great but this is not a day one patch but rather a content download that you need to download even if you have bought the retail copy. This is a totally new scenario here. This is the stuff that needs to be on the disc and if you can not met the timeline you should have delayed the game by a few weeks. But because Microsoft right now is under immense pressure from Sony they can not delay it any longer