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#1 Edited by Darji (5293 posts) -

In a new Interview Micrsoft responded to the recent backlash with another controversial statement.

The super core guys, they will buy everything," he added. "They will buy all devices, but most people really only do buy one device, and if you're going to think about what that one device is, we believe an all-in-one system that does the best games and TV and entertainment will be something that's really unique.

Also they promising some unique things for E3. Full article here.

http://www.oxm.co.uk/54833/xbox-one-if-all-you-want-is-gaming-youll-still-pick-us/

#2 Edited by rye256 (116 posts) -

This "super core guy" will buy none of it. At least nowhere near launch and probably not even in the first two years. Sorry Microsoft, your hubris has lost you a customer going forward.

#3 Edited by Lazyaza (2212 posts) -

Yes MS we buy all the consoles even when they suck, because we just gotta own em all. That's why we bought Ngages and PSPgo's right.

Honestly with the mounting confusion and nonsense I'm reading n hearing about One I couldn't be less interested in the machine now. Perhaps in a year when its got some good games I'll have a change of heart but they'd have to be some pretty mind blowing exclusives.

#4 Edited by spraynardtatum (3735 posts) -

NO THANK YOU!

#5 Edited by TruthTellah (9484 posts) -

He's correct on this at least. The super hardcore will almost always buy whatever latest and greatest is out there. The same can be said of the super hardcore smartphone or Apple fans.

But his point is that most people, including most gamers, won't just buy everything that's out there. Instead, they're likely to just get one major console. And he believes that his console is the one they should get. The one console that has everything for them.

Which may or may not be correct, but as someone releasing a console, he damn well better believe that. I'd hope Microsoft and Sony think their console is the only console I'll need in the next generation. Because I'm likely to only get one. And while I'm leaning toward the PS4, I can appreciate that they believe the X1 is a worthy competitor.

#6 Posted by lightsoda (542 posts) -

I consider myself a "core guy", I want a device for gaming, and no, I wont by all of them. I don't really have financial problems, but I'm not ready to spend that much money just to have all of them for no good reason.

#7 Edited by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

That sounds real condescending, like they really don't care about core gamers at all.

#8 Edited by JouselDelka (966 posts) -

@rye256 said:

This "super core guy" will buy none of it. At least nowhere near launch and probably not even in the first two years. Sorry Microsoft, your hubris has lost you a customer going forward.

That's not true. Sure there's a backlash and a loss of faith, but that almost never means that people will actually not buy the product. The most vivid example being Modern Warfare 2.

Unless Xbox 360 fans can afford a good gaming PC, which I've seen hundreds of people convert to but not everyone, they'll buy the next Xbox because the Playstation, while a great platform, will not compete with what the Xbox offers. Only the PC does, in terms of multiplayer connectivity and quality, and great titles that are universally praised (disclaimer: my opinion), and those who can't afford a gaming PC will find themselves walking to the nearest store and grabbing the Xbone after the X360 gets universally deserted.

Don't get me wrong, I think the PS3 is a fine gaming machine and the PS4 will be fantastic, but until the PS4 proves that it has the kind of services and titles that the Microsoft platforms have provided for years, I don't think it'll be a good enough alternative for Xbox players.

#9 Posted by Sanious (793 posts) -

Don't get me wrong, I think the PS3 is a fine gaming machine and the PS4 will be fantastic, but until the PS4 shows the kind of services and titles that the Microsoft platforms have provided for years, I don't think it'll be a good enough alternative for Xbox players.

Considering I don't think Microsoft have released anything worth while on the Xbox exclusively for a long time and there hasn't been anything interesting with the reveal and nothing but negative news/rumors coming out of it, I'm not holding my breath.

#10 Edited by Mikewarrior (77 posts) -

He is right to some extent, but wrong on many levels

I WAS a super hardcore Xbox fan with near 300 XBOX games and over 150 360 games. However, I will not support the crap Microsoft is spewing. It's NOT an all in one box (DVR/Cable box?) It will NOT be the most powerful console (The main reason I became an Xbox fan) With Microsoft forcing every game tied to their Azure servers, every game you buy will have a limited shelf-life along with the console. I don't keep/collect games just so they become worthless pieces of plastic once Microsoft feels like shutting down the servers. Also, making Kinect a MUST for the console to work is another deal breaker. Hell, I don't even want to support/buy the thing, yet Microsoft is cramming it down people's throat. I also HATE Microsoft's arrogance this Gen, and it's like Microsoft changed places with Sony. Sony is much better while Microsoft has gotten far worse.

Nah, the Xbox One isn't worth buying after all that crap, and many fans think so (Just go to Xbox.com and see for yourself) so Microsoft is wrong once again when it comes to me a hardcore Xbox gamer..

#11 Posted by Darji (5293 posts) -

@rye256 said:

This "super core guy" will buy none of it. At least nowhere near launch and probably not even in the first two years. Sorry Microsoft, your hubris has lost you a customer going forward.

That's not true. Sure there's a backlash and a loss of faith, but that almost never means that people will actually not buy the product. The most vivid example being Modern Warfare 2.

Unless Xbox 360 fans can afford a good gaming PC, which I've seen hundreds of people convert to but not everyone, they'll buy the next Xbox because the Playstation, while a great platform, will not compete with what the Xbox offers. Only the PC does, in terms of multiplayer connectivity and quality, and great titles that are universally praised (disclaimer: my opinion), and those who can't afford a gaming PC will find themselves walking to the nearest store and grabbing the Xbone after the X360 gets universally deserted.

Don't get me wrong, I think the PS3 is a fine gaming machine and the PS4 will be fantastic, but until the PS4 proves that it has the kind of services and titles that the Microsoft platforms have provided for years, I don't think it'll be a good enough alternative for Xbox players.

1. Gaming PCs are not expensive.

2. what great Xbox offers? That you have to pay for everything even for plaing online?

3. PS3 games got not praised for these things? Wow where do you live? Xbonerland?

4. We already know that Indies despise the new Xbox and most of them will not even develop for that machine.

5. There is a reason why almost everyone mutes his headphones on the 360. Because most of these people are straight assholes. The community on the PS3 is more mature. Of course not as mature as on the PC but still miles ahead of the 360 community.

#12 Edited by Ares42 (2800 posts) -

He said everything, not anything. This isn't hubris, it's a realization that there isn't really any competition between the consoles when it comes to the hardcore audience. Just think about it, how many people here owns at least the 2 main (or probably all 3) of the current gen consoles. Basically all he's saying is "we don't need to compete with Sony for that audience, we just need to put out some decent stuff and they'll buy it".

#13 Edited by rebgav (1429 posts) -

I think that was probably a dumb slip of the ton- oh fuck it, let's do this;

MIcrosoft's plan for the core games market? Inertia! They're going after that apathy dollar. Suddenly the way that they've presented the new console makes a lot of sense, they want us to not-care about it. We're bound to buy one eventually because "eh."

Edit: "Leveraging consumer complacency" sounds like it could be a real thing, doesn't it?

#14 Posted by Toxeia (725 posts) -

Sounds like Microsoft is challenging your "core-ness." Better prove them wrong and buy all of their stuff.

Also, why are there so many god damned threads about how Microsoft is tossing everyone who gives half a shit about games under the bus? They haven't even had the event where they show you the games.

#15 Posted by Darji (5293 posts) -

@toxeia said:

Sounds like Microsoft is challenging your "core-ness." Better prove them wrong and buy all of their stuff.

Also, why are there so many god damned threads about how Microsoft is tossing everyone who gives half a shit about games under the bus? They haven't even had the event where they show you the games.

because E3 is like 12 days away and people get hyped up for this event and console wars XD

#16 Edited by Mikewarrior (77 posts) -

@ares42 said:

He said everything, not anything. This isn't hubris, it's a realization that there isn't really any competition between the consoles when it comes to the hardcore audience. Just think about it, how many people here owns at least the 2 main (or probably all 3) of the current gen consoles. Basically all he's saying is "we don't need to compete with Sony for that audience, we just need to put out some decent stuff and they'll buy it".

What I would say to Microsoft... That's a Poor way of looking at the whole picture there Microsoft. Do we need to remind them that one of the biggest reasons people bought multiplatform games on the 360 over the PS3 was due to 360 the having better tech under the hood (GPU/Unified RAM) for games and developers? Who's multiplatform games usually ended up better? Who sold more games? The 360. I know, I bought 4 times more games for my 360 over my PS3. That's looking to not be the case this coming Gen with the PS4 greatly more powerful (GPU/Unified faster RAM) over the Xbone. I would have no reason to buy worse looking/playing games on the Xbone. There is not one thing Microsoft is doing that I agree with, so I'm putting 100% towards the PS4 if Sony makes the right moves, and doesn't force a camera just so the console can work, a better DRM policy, and far less arrogance in forcing their ideas than what Microsoft is showing.

#17 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (4500 posts) -

@rye256 said:

This "super core guy" will buy none of it. At least nowhere near launch and probably not even in the first two years. Sorry Microsoft, your hubris has lost you a customer going forward.

The "super core" are too busy with their PC's and fighting super villains to care

#18 Posted by aspaceinvader (257 posts) -

I will buy an xbox one and ps4 over time but not at launch. I am not interested in tv or the other features of these consoles. I am only interested in games for both consoles, don't watch tv much anymore.

#19 Posted by mrfluke (5352 posts) -

ultimately he is right,

but jeez to have them say that outfront, thats real boldface, those exclusives must be amazing games for them to be riding such a high horse..

#21 Posted by mrfluke (5352 posts) -

ultimately he is right,

but jeez to have them say that outfront, thats real boldface, those exclusives must be amazing games for them to be riding such a high horse..

#22 Posted by mrfluke (5352 posts) -

ultimately he is right,

but jeez to have them say that outfront, thats real boldface, those exclusives must be amazing games for them to be riding such a high horse..

#23 Posted by Nictel (2441 posts) -

@darji said:

In a new Interview Micrsoft responded to the recent backlash with another controversial statement.

The super core guys, they will buy everything," he added. "They will buy all devices, but most people really only do buy one device, and if you're going to think about what that one device is, we believe an all-in-one system that does the best games and TV and entertainment will be something that's really unique.

Also they promising some unique things for E3. Full article here.

http://www.oxm.co.uk/54833/xbox-one-if-all-you-want-is-gaming-youll-still-pick-us/

These persons, where did they find them? I don't know anyone that "buys everything" neither do I know people who are really big fans of all-in-one systems. "If one thing breaks you lose everything."

#24 Posted by DonPixel (2628 posts) -

Once you own a nice gaming PC, there is no reason to buy anything else.

#25 Posted by Deranged (1859 posts) -

If I had the money sure I would. At least in terms of what the Xbox One is shipping, it covers the bases.

#27 Posted by Brendan (8168 posts) -

@darji: Gaming PC's are far more expensive than consoles if you want a machine that can maintain an appreciable performance benefit over consoles for a 6-8 year span. Don't be one of those bullshitters who say "A gaming PC can only cost $400 and can play WoW, FTP games, and everything up to this years titles low settings!"

You are paying several hundreds of dollars more for a gaming PC that isn't pointless (let's say $800 as an average price for a DIY rig) at any given , and you are certainly paying at LEAST another $500, if not another $800 over the course of the subsequent 8 years.

As far as game prices are concerned, a value conscious buyer will wait for prices to come down on console games as well, even if they aren't buying used. I have payed $40, $30, and even $20 for new games off Amazon.

In summary, no one believes that a PC costs no more for gaming than a console does.

#28 Posted by Andorski (5369 posts) -

@donpixel said:

Once you own a nice gaming PC, there is no reason to buy anything else.

Except better hardware! Personally been eyeing the GTX 780 since it released. Dat Titan cooler...

#30 Posted by Nivash (241 posts) -

In some weird way I guess it's automatically true because the way Microsoft put it makes it a tautology: super-core guys buy all the systems because the guys that buy all the systems are defined as super-core. Because up until this point, "super-core" wasn't an actual word. The entire statement is completely meaningless.

"The guys that buy all the systems are not a focus for us because they by definition buy all the systems, we want the guys that buy only one system to buy ours because we want our system to be the best."

Of course you do, Microsoft. What on Earth would make you want them to buy anything else? I guess this is pretty much just the antonym to Nintendo's strategy for the previous generation of "Buy either or both of the PS3 and the 360, then buy the Wii" but it's not like anyone anywhere, at any time, thought that was Microsoft's strategy which made them feel the need to clarify the matter.

#31 Posted by kagato (962 posts) -

@rye256 said:

This "super core guy" will buy none of it. At least nowhere near launch and probably not even in the first two years. Sorry Microsoft, your hubris has lost you a customer going forward.

Sums me up exactly, they are going to have to pull something massive out of the bag at E3 or its going to be whenever they shut down the 360 servers.

#32 Posted by kagato (962 posts) -

@rye256 said:

This "super core guy" will buy none of it. At least nowhere near launch and probably not even in the first two years. Sorry Microsoft, your hubris has lost you a customer going forward.

Sums me up exactly, they are going to have to pull something massive out of the bag at E3 or its going to be whenever they shut down the 360 servers.

#33 Edited by ThePickle (4169 posts) -

@rye256 said:

This "super core guy" will buy none of it. At least nowhere near launch and probably not even in the first two years. Sorry Microsoft, your hubris has lost you a customer going forward.

^

#34 Edited by oraknabo (1514 posts) -

I had a GameCube and a PS2.

I currently have a 360 and a Wii.

I don't know if I'm a core gamer, but I will either be buying an XBONE or a PS4. I may end up with a Wii-U if the game library gets better, but I never buy all three.

#35 Edited by rye256 (116 posts) -

@jouseldelka: I certainly don't doubt that Microsoft will sell these and probably sell them well, regardless of whether they put out any exclusive first party content consistently worth playing.

Honestly, I have more of an issue with the attitude and "hubris" or "high horse" or "cock-sure" position that I may be reading into their behavior and communication, but nonetheless, I see it and I do not support it.

Even if all the used game stuff turns out to only be built into the point of sale cost and there is no further fee or issue as long as you have a disc to put in a console, I still don't appreciate the way they are positioning themselves. This isn't new. I have not been on board ever since they decided to copy Nintendo.

"If" they manage to put out quality content regularly, then in a few years I "might" give them a look again. This may mean I am no longer "hardcore" or whatever the fuck. I don't care. I love games. Anywhere a great game is I want to check it out, but not if I do not feel good about the people to whom I am giving my money.

I am fully prepared to go PC and stick with what I have now for years to come. Just because I choose this path does not mean Microsoft will fail or that I wish that upon them.

It is a free market. Anyone can choose to put out a product or service or put out a product and call it a service. Anyone can choose to not partake of said product or service as well. It is a beautiful thing and I don't feel personally wounded in any way that a company might change their focus or broaden their approach to reach others.

Hell, I may be the one who changed. Maybe if I was fifteen or fifty with a family I would love everything they are offering.

#36 Posted by Alekss (327 posts) -

@mrfluke said:

ultimately he is right,

but jeez to have them say that outfront, thats real boldface, those exclusives must be amazing games for them to be riding such a high horse..

I'm waiting for him to say we need a second job to buy the Xbone

#37 Posted by Residentrevil2 (465 posts) -

I bought it all for Xbox.

I still like my PS3 for the Blu-ray and Uncharted.

#38 Edited by Nivash (241 posts) -

@brendan: OK, this is pretty much OP but this has been on my mind for some time and I can't resist posting it. So here it goes: I used to think the way you do, but I just executed a major PC upgrade and after running the numbers came to the conclusion that whether or not a gaming PC is actually more expensive than a console greatly depends.

First there is the matter of whether you need a PC anyway. If you're living alone, the answer to that is most likely yes. If so, you can pretty much subtract the cost of a bare-bones surfing and word processing PC from the cost of the gaming PC. The need to have a PC at all was the main reason I upgraded anyway, by the way. My old desktop was pushing 7-8 years on core components and one hard drive had outright failed. I had the option of spending the equivalent (I'm a Swede, these prices are therefore higher than the US prices) some $350 just saving what could be saved (it is possible to go even lower, but that means getting only the most basic crap components possible, and the decision to actually downgrade my PC to save it didn't sit right with me). In the end I decided on an upgrade equivalent in cost to $850 to get me a high-end gaming PC. The price was kept down thanks to me already owning things like an OS, monitor, chassis and peripherals. As a price comparison: the PS3 was launched at a price equivalent to $600 in Sweden.

We can use this as a thought experiment: if the new consoles are released at a similar price point (which they probably won't, the PS3 was pushing it) going the route I did would save me about $50 compared to a bare-bones upgrade combined with a new PS3 at launch. If the new consoles are released at $550, which is still high, I break even. Any lower, which is extremely likely, and I would be paying more in the short run - but there are other factors.

There is the matter of how many games you buy: if you buy one new game every month that will save you $120 over a full year compared to consoles. If you buy your games primarily through Steam sales or other campaigns - which in my experience are far more common and accessible on the PC, by the way - that number will be higher. If you buy as many as two new games every month you will be saving $240 a year.

So where will that get us? My current graphics card is capable of running anything at max settings with good FPS in 1080p (the most taxing game I have found so far would be Crysis 3, which runs at max settings at 30 FPS+, most games, like Bioshock Infinite, runs at max settings at 60 FPS +) Based on observations of how my brother's PC has fared, which he bought in conjunction with the BF3 launch in the fall of 2011 and has a graphics card of a model exactly one generation older than mine, my graphics card will be able to run anything at high settings in a year and everything on at least medium settings in 2 years, at which point I would likely want to upgrade. The card I bought cost me some $300. So if I buy a game a month, the cost will be almost completely covered in 2 years leaving a mere $60 added cost - about the cost of one new console game. If I buy two new games a month, I'm running a surplus of a cool $180. Then there is the processor which would likely have to be upgraded later, at least in 3 years, 4 being more likely. RAM should probably be upgraded in that time but cost would be inconsequential. I should not need a new motherboard for another 5 years at least unless there are some major architectural developments in the meantime.

Then there are other things as well. If you buy an Xbox, there is the added charge of Live Gold which currently costs the equivalent of about $70 a year over hear (I know you can get it cheaper, but I'm lazy and have just upgraded the license automatically through Microsoft every year so I count it at this price point) and there are usually extended costs for peripherals, but personally I estimate that those costs will be comparable on PC.

Now, before posting this I should make something clear: it is very likely I will buy a next gen console anyway.The main reason I chose to the gaming-PC route was because my personal economy finally improved back to the point where I can buy both again during the weeks I looked at my upgrade options. But I'm a number cruncher by nature, so I ran the numbers anyway. That said, for me personally, the cost of doing just one or the other would, if I had gone that route, most likely have evened out.

#39 Edited by Darji (5293 posts) -

@brendan said:

@darji: Gaming PC's are far more expensive than consoles if you want a machine that can maintain an appreciable performance benefit over consoles for a 6-8 year span. Don't be one of those bullshitters who say "A gaming PC can only cost $400 and can play WoW, FTP games, and everything up to this years titles low settings!"

You are paying several hundreds of dollars more for a gaming PC that isn't pointless (let's say $800 as an average price for a DIY rig) at any given , and you are certainly paying at LEAST another $500, if not another $800 over the course of the subsequent 8 years.

As far as game prices are concerned, a value conscious buyer will wait for prices to come down on console games as well, even if they aren't buying used. I have payed $40, $30, and even $20 for new games off Amazon.

In summary, no one believes that a PC costs no more for gaming than a console does.

Not really. For example my Pc was like 400 Euro and 'I bought it 3 years ago? And it still lets me play today's games in high or max details i 720P easily and with a over 30fps rate,

#40 Edited by yoshimitz707 (2453 posts) -

Of course I'll buy everything. I want to play all the games. I don't care about whatever policies are pissing off the internet.

#41 Edited by EXTomar (4951 posts) -

The market has changed. Last generation there was so much money floating around the industry where no one could sustain this for a decade. This whole "chase the casual" was because the hard core wasn't buying enough product.

A lot of this reminds me of the US Anime industry where it only worked as long as companies where pumping gobs of money in where it turned out they couldn't sustain it and it collapsed. I don't think we will see a full on crash but there are going to be some "adjustments" made. Painful adjustments.

#42 Edited by DonPixel (2628 posts) -

@andorski said:

@donpixel said:

Once you own a nice gaming PC, there is no reason to buy anything else.

Except better hardware! Personally been eyeing the GTX 780 since it released. Dat Titan cooler...

I just built this baby:

No need nor want for new consoles in a while. I don't feel like trowing money at anti-consumer greedy companies.

pay gold live fee so you can watch netflix!? I can't understand why people put up to dat shit.

#43 Posted by Nivash (241 posts) -

@extomar: Yeah, I think that's a good way of putting it. At this point a full-on collapse is not possible. The last time it happened it was because the industry failed to capitalize on its earlier success and ended up becoming a fad, when consumers moved on from high-priced and similar experiences to other things. This can't happen today. Gaming has been around for decades and are an important part of the lives of millions of people. It doesn't matter if prices go high and creativity goes down - for us hardcore gamers, gaming is a way of life and there will always be some developer out there giving us some of what we want.

What can definitely happen if big developers and publishers fail to adapt is a considerable contraction of the industry through the loss of casual and some core gamers, who could definitely move on to other things if their attention is not kept. This would have severe repercussions for big publishers and developers, especially in regards to AAA games which would probably become few and far between until their development costs are reined in.

The option to that is restructuring in some form. We can already see attempts at this: we have a greatly expanded virtual market (at the expense of mortar and brick stores) and Microsoft's almost-always online policies in regards to the X-Bone as well as their push against second-hand games represent attempts from them to both combat sales losses to piracy and used games as well as expand on their services. This can also be seen in the way micro transactions are becoming more commonplace. What the industry leaders are trying to do is turn gamers from something similar to movie goers, where you pay once and have a few hours of fun, to iOS users, where you stick around and pay small amounts for a very long time. If this will be enough or, more likely, what other measures they will take, probably remains to be seen. As is what effect this will have on consumers.

#44 Posted by Brendan (8168 posts) -

@nivash: Your example, while valid, comes with one major caveat: Subtracting the cost the the PC you would have bought anyway. Whether you're a student or in the working world, its more likely than not that your buying a laptop. I don't mean "you" specifically, since if your only computer is a desktop then you're not the typical example.

#45 Posted by Darji (5293 posts) -

@brendan said:

@nivash: Your example, while valid, comes with one major caveat: Subtracting the cost the the PC you would have bought anyway. Whether you're a student or in the working world, its more likely than not that your buying a laptop. I don't mean "you" specifically, since if your only computer is a desktop then you're not the typical example.

you would rather buy a netbook as a student.

#46 Posted by Reisz (1527 posts) -

Oh man, that is not how Phil Spencer wanted that to sound, ouch.

#47 Posted by HerbieBug (4208 posts) -

Pfffft! We shall see what we shall see, Microsoft. You put in your ridiculous DRM schemes. You do that and we'll see.

#48 Edited by Brendan (8168 posts) -

@darji: You didn't buy your PC in 2005 which was when this generation started, 5 years before you bought your PC. As far as the opening price of the PS3 was concerned, that was notable example of unsuccessful console pricing that is not representative of the average. Furthermore, judging by your comment your performance benefits are not that much greater then a console anyway, if one of the major benefits is getting 60fps at 1080p. If your pushing console sole standard framerates, at 720p, on hardware that encompasses less than half of the hardware cycle, then your example proves nothing, and in fact works against you.

#49 Edited by Nivash (241 posts) -

@brendan: Well obviously, if you really need a laptop then you can discount the discount so to speak. But I'm not saying my example is universally true: just that it can actually be cheaper or just as expensive for some people, as it was for me. I'm a student by the way, and how I got to where I am now was actually through two laptops in the last five years, after which I dug up my old rig from my parent's which I now essentially gutted apart from one hard drive, the chassis and the DVD drive and replaced the rest with new components. Over the years I realized that I didn't actually need a laptop anyway. There just isn't anything in my studies that requires one - it's just one of these things every student for some reason feel that they got to have. For other students, and I imagine some jobs in particular, this could obviously be different.

#50 Posted by rebgav (1429 posts) -

@brendan said:

judging by your comment your performance benefits are not that much greater then a console anyway, if one of the major benefits is getting 60fps at 1080p.

That's four times the resolution of a Halo game and twice the framerate, for perspective's sake. Even if all other aspects were equal, that's a massive performance boost.