MS DRM Shutdown - They did it once, they can do it again

My WebTV doesn't work either.

Is anyone elses working?

@rebgav:

Nope. I have legally purchased Dreamcast, 3DO and Saturn discs I play on my PC's emulator, and I'm 100% within the letter of the law to do so. If in 15 years I feel the urge to play Titanfall or CoD: Ghosts, I'll do the exact same thing.

So the solution to DRM is to build a more powerful system so that you don't actually play a game on it but use it to decrypt something else.

@extomar:

15-20 years from now when I don't want a dusty XB1 taking up closet space? Absolutely. The SNES and Saturn don't have any DRM, and that's how most people enjoy those games today. Not because they have to, but because it's the easiest way with the best quality.

In 15-20 years I'll be playing games with 15-20 years of advancement instead of wistfully wishing someone to build a system powerful enough do decrypt and to play Halo 5 that requires online systems that don't exist any more.

Thank God that someone else finally said this. This is my absolute biggest issue with always online DRM (OK, 24 hour checks, whatever), and I don't see people mentioning it very often.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Remember that the 8 year old 360 and 7 year old PS3 do not have good emulators yet.

@believer258:

So you'd rather they eliminate the ability to switch games without loading a different disc into the tray than require an online check to verify ownership?

I absolutely would. Not needing to swap discs is such a minuscule convenience that doesn't even come close to justifying the new hoops you have to jump through as a consumer, IMO.

Day 1 digital releases mean that you don't have to use discs on either console if you don't want to. You'll have to buy digital on the PS4 for that, but I'll gladly take it over online checks.

Honestly, there's no reason they couldn't do both. Disc in tray means you can play offline, no disc requires you to be connected. Add some true digital rights management--such and the ability to temporarily transfer a digital license to a friend so they can borrow a game--and this whole thing would be a non-issue.

@spaceinsomniac:

And I continue to insist that's exactly how it'll work. Microsoft has done the worst job in modern history of explaining these things, and by the time the dust settles, I suspect 90% of the angst will have been a tempest in a teapot.

What? We already know that they've flat out said that you will not be able to play video games unless you're currently online, or you've been online in the past 24 hours. Why do you think MS made that submarine comment that people who can't connect online should just get an Xbox 360?

"With Xbox One you can game offline for up to 24 hours on your primary console, or one hour if you are logged on to a separate console accessing your library. Offline gaming is not possible after these prescribed times until you re-establish a connection, but you can still watch live TV and enjoy Blu-ray and DVD movies."

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/connected

Yep. MS has been vague about quite a few aspects of their new system, but their "no offline gaming" comments seem as clear as crystal.

@zels said:

MSN Music was never Microsoft's core service. Steam is Valve's primary, practically sole, service.

@rebgav said:

I've never heard any official statement from Valve regarding their plans to support their customers once Steam is shuttered. DRM-stripping was one of a couple hypotheses, but if you have conclusive evidence I'd love to see it (my own Steam library is quite extensive).

This will happen, on both the 360 and the ps3. We just have to hope that they provide us with more options going forward so that psn and xbox live games aren't lost to time. Also you shouldn't end an op with "Enough said. Conversation over." that doesn't make sense.

I was being sarcastic. Watch the video in the link.

@spaceinsomniac:

After how badly they've communicated everything else, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if a phrase like "When the disc isn't in the tray" was left off there unintentionally.

With all the talk of the cloud, the bits, etc, all their statements seem to be pertaining specifically to disc free gameplay.

If it means that my rights as a consumer aren't trampled, and that the value of my games isn't dropped down to 0 when Microsoft decides to turn off the servers, then yeah I'll get up and change games every few hours. Gee, it's not fucking hard.

I don't know if I can make this any clearer. The only real issue I have with this DRM is that every Xbox One will stop working when MS decides to stop supporting the authentication servers. I will set aside other quibbles if I am guaranteed that my (hypothetical) Xbox One will turn on and play games until the day that it breaks and not the day that Microsoft decides it's time for me to move on to their shiny new stupidly named console. A change of philosophy on the Kinect wouldn't hurt either.

Of all the conflicting messages that has come out of various Microsoft representatives, this one has been unmistakably clear. You must authenticate online every 24 hours to play it.

There's a significant difference between choosing to buy something online and taking that risk yourself, or having the decision made for you with every single piece of software you'll ever own for that console.

@spaceinsomniac: Ah I see.

I believe it was in a Major Nelson interview. Either with Angry Joe or... I can't remember her name, just that everyone probably has seen her in her Aeyla cosplay. She says it in her interview, but she excitedly blurts it out and it's not a common name.

Regardless, in the interview, Major Nelson says pretty much that, word for word. I'm pretty sure it was the Angry Joe video, as he pressed the DRM stuff pretty hard.

In the interest of preservation of something no longer available to purchase and/or even use on its original hardware? Absolutely.

But if they're actually smart, they'll do all the preservation work themselves and make it available to buy/play on future platforms.

I don't have the google-fu required to pull up steam employee interviews which aren't recent Gabe Newell interviews so, in place of primary sources, I offer you the canned steam support response to the question.

And third-hand GabeN emails!

If you right click on a game in Steam, you'll see that you can back up the files yourself. Unless there was some situation I don't understand, we would presumably disable authentication before any event that would preclude the authentication servers from being available.

We've tested disabling authentication and it works.

Not a 100% ideal, concrete plan of action, I grant you. Still, better than "we haven't thought about it and don't want to talk about it."

I will never trust Microsoft ever again after they shut down LIVE for the old XBOX. Nah Microsoft, I like to be in control of all the games I buy.

Yeah. It'll be beautiful on my PC.

There are also a ton of games sold on Steam that have no requirement to use Steam. After you purchase and download it you can launch them straight from the hard drive just like any other game or app without bothering to start steam.exe or logging in.

They have been as clear as they can possibly be about the 24 hour check in and no way around it, even with a disc.

@lego_my_eggo:

He didn't really answer that question- just went on a PR script about "connected". I have yet to hear someone be definitive on this.

If this is true (I have a hard time believing it isn't) than I officially cannot comprehend why anyone would want to buy one of these things. You're talking about hundreds (possibly thousands) of dollars that one day become totally useless. It's anti-consumer to a disturbing degree.

The question was specifically about the 24 hour check in with disc based games, if the answer was that a disc in the system could override that check in he would have said as much, but because he is a PR person, it is his job to twist and not answer questions he knows people will not like. The real answer being that they want to tie up all the potential loop holes people could use to get around there DRM.

Weirdly enough my greatest fear is being unable to update/patch games on 360 in five years. They way they put it in a temporary cache on a lot of the titles (though they've changed that in recent years) means that your save files are incompatible in a lot of cases or you're stuck with the buggy version of the game.

If you are afraid of a service shutting down you should download said media from service onto a hard drive. This music service has been down for 7 years. What's the issue here.

If Steam or The One were going to go belly up I would download all my games & keep them.

@lego_my_eggo:

Eh, maybe. Lets not forget this is the same company who talked about a "used game fee", which it turned out didn't even exist. Their PR people obviously have a huge disconnect with the tech department, and any question they don't know the answer to gets spun. Still waiting.

Did you forget the Xbone console itself will stop playing games once it can't get a PING from the server after 24 hours? The online DRM in the console itself, and it's ALL Microsoft's doing.

The used game fee is real and up to the publishers, its just that Microsoft doesn't get a cut of every deal. You can keep thinking and waiting that they just somehow forgot that line in there PR release about DRM, but i think you will be waiting a long time.

Do people even believe Microsoft anymore?People don't think Microsoft gets a cut from the Publishers themselves for using Microsoft's Azure system? Everybody will pay extra in one way or the other, except Microsoft. The FEEs Xbone owners will pay is when trading in their games to SELECT retail partners who will give them far less for their games because they are the only option, and because of the extra FEES the retailer will have to pay.

I really could give less of a shit. Steam has the same policy in writing but there are people who have been offline for years and still able to play games.

As long as the games are good, I will play on your console.

That should tell you Xbox One's DRM system is not like steam. You can't be offline more than 24 hours, and do you think Microsoft will offer you $1 high quality games, or keep the servers up for good? Once that server gets shut off, your whole Xbone library of games will be unplayable.

Could you give less of a shit?