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#1 Edited by Kung_Fu_Viking (710 posts) -

For those of you who thought the PS4's day one patch was bad, wait 'till you see this:

"Microsoft's Xbox One will not be able to play even disc-based games on day one without a mandatory update to the system."

Source:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-11-08-xbox-one-wont-play-games-on-day-one-without-mandatory-update

Now I don't expect the whole system to be finished by the time the console starts manufacturing, but to have such basic functionality missing? Let's hope there are absolutely no issues with patching on launch day or else you'll have a lot of upset people with very cool, but very useless Xbox Ones.

#2 Edited by Village_Guy (2596 posts) -

Ouch that could really go bad, they have stated before that the system would need an update day one, but I don't think they've specified what wouldn't work without the update before.

#3 Posted by gkhan (445 posts) -

Wow. That is... wow!

I wonder if this has to do with the change in DRM policy, that the system has to be updated to know that it doesn't need to check in every 24 hours.

#4 Posted by HermanBloom (94 posts) -

In fairness you can't do any multiplayer stuff on the PS4 until you patch that, so they are both pretty bad on this one. I'm sure they can cater for the large demand. Probably.

#5 Posted by TheMasterDS (2070 posts) -

They've always been very explicit that on day one it'll require the patch to do anything. Also with what they're investing in Azure it better be solid enough to take the day 1 traffic. That goes double for Sony since they also have major features locked behind the day 1 patch and, more importantly, I intend to be downloading all my games from here on out. Really hope both marketplaces are solid from the get go.

#6 Posted by AgnosticJesus (544 posts) -

This could definitely be a major problem considering Internet access is such a luxury nowadays with only the rich, fat cats having reliable, fast connections.

#7 Posted by Shaunage (712 posts) -

They've always been really clear about this.

#8 Edited by Zirilius (652 posts) -

Yep having to connect online during setup has always been super clear. Not a big deal to me but I can see Gamestop and Walmart getting tons of returns on these.

#9 Edited by SomeJerk (3261 posts) -

No chance to jam this onto USB or game discs?

#10 Edited by Kung_Fu_Viking (710 posts) -

I figured the initial setup and the patching process would be separate. i.e. I could get the console set up, authenticated online and whatever and then start playing something while the patch downloaded in the background.

#11 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

They have been very clear that this would be needed.

#12 Posted by HermanBloom (94 posts) -

I think even the WiiU made you update first, no?

#13 Posted by MildMolasses (3221 posts) -

@shaunage said:

They've always been really clear about this.

Yep. They said this when they changed their always online/no used games policy

#14 Posted by Hailinel (24961 posts) -

@hermanbloom: The Wii U required an update for online features. It didn't block people from playing games on day one.

Online
#15 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7096 posts) -

To be fair, the patch on PS4 is a tiny 300mbs. This patch might be larger, I don't know. But they've been pretty clear saying "hey there's gonna be a day one patch that you're going to need to have."

#16 Posted by erhard (408 posts) -

It baffles me to hear people complain about this complete non‐issue. You're going to update your console soon enough. What did you expect?

#17 Posted by HermanBloom (94 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@hermanbloom: The Wii U required an update for online features. It didn't block people from playing games on day one.

Ah ok, I remember Vinny saying he had to update when he plugged the machine in, but think he was wanting to download something online so that explains it.

#18 Posted by SoylentGreen (255 posts) -

@erhard: If there's any server issues day one, people won't be able to play games. That's kind of a big one.

Not to mention the people who have shitty internet connections. It's not so much a thing in the city, but having previously lived in the middle of nowhere, I can definitely say that 300MB+ patches just won't be practical for some people.

#19 Posted by SomeJerk (3261 posts) -

I figured the initial setup and the patching process would be separate. i.e. I could get the console set up, authenticated online and whatever and then start playing something while the patch downloaded in the background.

That's how it works on the PS4, yes.

#20 Posted by Deranged (1837 posts) -

@gkhan said:

Wow. That is... wow!

I wonder if this has to do with the change in DRM policy, that the system has to be updated to know that it doesn't need to check in every 24 hours.

Yup, they've stated this on a few occasions that the Day One patch's purpose is to "switch off" the previous policies such as DRM, constant internet connectivity, etc.

#21 Posted by Demoskinos (14871 posts) -

I wonder how well Microsoft is going to communicate this to the layperson. I think most of us realize this but Im sure there will be people who buy this thing without any real access to internet and basically have an expensive brick on their hands.

As most have said the patch is to un-do the initial plans for DRM.

#22 Edited by Marokai (2985 posts) -

I've been getting a kick in the last couple weeks about how so many people are making a big deal about a 300mb Day 1 patch for various features on the Ps4 (which supposedly can be downloaded while playing a game), while the XB1 requires a patch before it can do literally anything. The former is a convenient way of doing what is now par for the course, and the latter is crazy.

#23 Posted by MildMolasses (3221 posts) -

I wonder how well Microsoft is going to communicate this to the layperson. I think most of us realize this but Im sure there will be people who buy this thing without any real access to internet and basically have an expensive brick on their hands.

As most have said the patch is to un-do the initial plans for DRM.

Just looking around some online retailers, they have varying degrees of this messaging. Amazon didn't seem to have it at all, while the Futureshop one had "Initial online setup and games - in addition to some features - require a broadband Internet connection (ISP fees apply) and an Xbox Live account" which seems a tad confusing as it doesn't say that the online setup is mandatory

#24 Edited by Excast (937 posts) -

I realize some people want to pretend we live in a world where everyone has a blazing fast connection, but it just isn't the case. I'm just a few years removed from dial up and a year into even having my PS3 connected online. It's fairly shady to sell a console that requires a patch not just to get online, but to play games at all.

#25 Posted by Humanity (9375 posts) -

They both messed up the moment they decided to release half finished consoles.

#26 Posted by StarvingGamer (8283 posts) -

In fairness you can't do any multiplayer stuff on the PS4 until you patch that, so they are both pretty bad on this one. I'm sure they can cater for the large demand. Probably.

But in order to do multiplayer stuff you would have to be connected to the internet anyway so it's a moot point.

#27 Edited by CheapPoison (733 posts) -

Phew, good that connection is neccessary otherwise that might bring up some nasty surprises if people can't play after they bought it.

#28 Edited by TheManWithNoPlan (5586 posts) -

Sounds pretty bad for people who aren't in the know.

#29 Edited by ryanwhom (290 posts) -

So people with no access to internet like deployed soldiers are fucked. Im sure this will work out.

#30 Posted by Icemo (643 posts) -

Sure, microsoft said earlier that xbox one needs an update day one, and that's fine since many other consoles do that too. But not being able to play games at all before update is pretty messed up. There is no way that everyone will be able to update without problems.

I'm remembering the giantbomb wii u launch day stream and I can see the xbox one stream being a windjammers stream since the update servers are too busy. But hopefully that wont happen, although windjammers is great to watch too.

#31 Edited by AndyMc1888 (95 posts) -

While the details were never very clear as soon as they removed the DRM the wording for very clear that a one time online set up would be required to do anything. Those who say this is messed up are the same ones moaning about needing discs to play games AND complaining about the original drm policy, Cant have it both ways. Provided the servers hold up this is a non issue.

@ryanwhom if microsoft were to cater for the minority then technology can never evolve , im sure as before there will be a console specific to servicemen and women that can be used just find when they are out there "defending us"

#32 Posted by ryanwhom (290 posts) -

day one patching is evolution in the same way ikea furniture built to be replaced every 2 years is evolution

where would I be without shipping halfbaked day 1 broken products, cant get in the way of progress

#33 Edited by BlackLagoon (1440 posts) -

@hermanbloom said:

In fairness you can't do any multiplayer stuff on the PS4 until you patch that, so they are both pretty bad on this one. I'm sure they can cater for the large demand. Probably.

Indeed, sitting there watching the patch download bar on the Xbox One is clearly an equivalent experience to booting up and playing Assassin's Creed or Killzone while the PS4 handles the day one patch downloading in the background.

#34 Posted by Excast (937 posts) -

@andymc1888: So it's not messed up that a game console might not be able to play any single player games out of the box? That is acceptable? Would it be acceptable if a Blue Ray player needed to go online to play any movies?

#35 Edited by Icemo (643 posts) -

@ryanwhom said:

day one patching is evolution in the same way ikea furniture built to be replaced every 2 years is evolution

where would I be without shipping halfbaked day 1 broken products, cant get in the way of progress

PS4 update is like buying a car that can only go 50 mph before you get it serviced.

Xbox One update is like buying a car that won't move at all before you get it serviced.

#36 Posted by AndyMc1888 (95 posts) -

a day one patch happens with everything , the way these timescales work the final product has to be finalised way before release dates and there is always a patch , firmware update or whatever to fix these things.

This is obviously alot bigger due to the turnaround and listening to those complaining regarding always online (while restrictive was trying something new with the discless system ) a complete non issue, same as the wii U one , gaming forums kick up over picking a side and constantly comparing , fighting and saying stuff doesnt work before anyone has actually had a hands on with the system confuses me.

#37 Posted by ryanwhom (290 posts) -

PS4's online patch effects people who want to use online and therefore have access to it. Which is a little different than a wholecloth everyone needs internet day one to play Rhyse by themselves on a disc. This like "WiiU is just a new controller for the Wii right" levels of consumer confusion for a product that's already in trouble.

#38 Edited by Marokai (2985 posts) -

@andymc1888 said:

a day one patch happens with everything , the way these timescales work the final product has to be finalised way before release dates and there is always a patch , firmware update or whatever to fix these things.

This is obviously alot bigger due to the turnaround and listening to those complaining regarding always online (while restrictive was trying something new with the discless system ) a complete non issue, same as the wii U one , gaming forums kick up over picking a side and constantly comparing , fighting and saying stuff doesnt work before anyone has actually had a hands on with the system confuses me.

This irritates me. No one here is talking about taking sides, or using this in some broader argument. It's just a truth. The Ps4 can (reportedly, according to Yoshida, etc etc, caveat caveat) download its comparatively small Day 1 patch in the background while playing a game. You have basic out-of-the-box functionality and they at least claim to have tried to make it as convenient as possible. The Xbox One has zero out-of-the-box functionality and requires an update before it can do literally anything.

The only people who keep kicking up a storm whenever these topics come up are the people hyper-paranoid about picking "sides." Plenty of other people, however, seem capable of admitting things as they are even if they don't paint one side in a particularly good light by comparison. It's not even a huge controversy, it just... is. Saying "well, both systems require a day one patch, therefore they are both half finished, therefore equally flawed" is the balance fallacy. It is dumb and wrong.

#39 Posted by Syed117 (387 posts) -

I love the outrage over this. Again.

This has been known for months. Suddenly because a Microsoft employee says it again, people lose their minds.

Oh no, I have to wait for my console to download a patch before I start using it. My world is over.

I'm not using either of those machines until I install the patch on day one. I don't care how long it takes. Based on current performance, it's a lot more likely that Microsoft's servers will be able to handle the pressure on day one.

#40 Posted by Icemo (643 posts) -

People are skeptical of launches that require online access, because stuff like diablo 3 or every single MMO launch happens and something goes wrong. So a core function like playing a video game missing before updating scares people because there is no certainty that everything will go smoothly. And I'm not thinking that PS4 launch will go smoothly either. It's just that at least you can play a game with your PS4 while you wait for sony to fix the problems.

#41 Posted by AMyggen (3127 posts) -

As others say, this has been known for a while now. But it still sucks. All this just makes me more glad that I'm not buying a console at launch.

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#42 Posted by Skooky (477 posts) -

It's been known for months.

Still dumb.

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#43 Posted by SomeJerk (3261 posts) -

I think the best course is waiting until the 22nd. No downloadable USB-appliable 1.3gb patch by then? Reason to worry. If the world enters the 23rd with no problem getting the patch or games? Good job, happy it worked out.

But that's just me.

#44 Posted by Kung_Fu_Viking (710 posts) -

It makes more sense in light of the whole DRM U-turn, which I had all but forgotten about.

#45 Posted by SomeJerk (3261 posts) -

It makes more sense in light of the whole DRM U-turn, which I had all but forgotten about.

Everything screams of "we were caught pants down on February 20th" to me.

#46 Posted by BRich (437 posts) -

Don't care about either console patching. I'm not on a nuclear submarine or in rural Appalachia.

#47 Edited by Jeff (3580 posts) -

@kung_fu_viking: Yeah, they said this back when they rolled back the DRM policy, I think. It's super crazy! But then it's been a super crazy year.

Staff Online
#48 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@somejerk said:

@kung_fu_viking said:

It makes more sense in light of the whole DRM U-turn, which I had all but forgotten about.

Everything screams of "we were caught pants down on February 20th" to me.

"But here's 6 months of Skype calls! Even though every other platform can do Skype calls for free!"

#49 Posted by Fearbeard (831 posts) -

They were pretty clear about this back when they reversed the always online stuff. Not sure why it's suddenly a big story now other then the fact that it's almost out.

#50 Posted by FuriousJodo (123 posts) -

They've always been very explicit that on day one it'll require the patch to do anything. Also with what they're investing in Azure it better be solid enough to take the day 1 traffic. That goes double for Sony since they also have major features locked behind the day 1 patch and, more importantly, I intend to be downloading all my games from here on out. Really hope both marketplaces are solid from the get go.

^ This - it has been clear for quite a while that the console needs a Day One activation before it will be functional. Which is almost certainly because the OS wasn't complete when the hardware was made over the past few months - I really don't see it as a big deal as long as the Day One patch works without issue and isn't 20GB or something.