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#1 Posted by jimmyfenix (3854 posts) -

The rumor that Microsoft was increasing something was intresting.

I for one hoped they would increase the GPU but this does not seem to be any helpful.

Marc whitten said this in a podcast with major nelson "

“This is the time when we’ve gone from the theory of how the hardware works - what we think the yield is going to look like, what is the thermal envelope, how do things come together - to actually having it in our hands,” Whitten explained. “That’s the time when you really start tweaking the knobs. Either your theory was dead on or you were too conservative or you were a little too aggressive. And an example of that is we’ve tweaked up the clock speed on our GPU, from 800 MHz to 853 MHz. Just an example of how you really start landing the program as you get closer to launch.”

From a company saying Specs are meaningless to this I dont know what to believe anymore.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/08/02/microsoft-confirms-xbox-one-gpu-boost

#2 Posted by alternate (2702 posts) -

They never said specs are meaningless. They said they didn't target the best specs and that specs are not everything. Any little overclock they got can't hurt.

#3 Posted by EXTomar (4722 posts) -

Did they turn on the "go faster bit" or find some lost MHz in the documentation for the hardware?

If people wonder why I am always harping on the XBox One is because they seem to be throwing a lot of meaningless stuff around.

#4 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

They are now at 1.3TFLOPS instead of 1.2TFLOPS.

#5 Posted by jimmyfenix (3854 posts) -
#6 Edited by EXTomar (4722 posts) -

My PC experience tells me this: Overclocking generally shortens the life span of components. If thing is supposed to last 10 years they might not want to mess with it for such a minor increase.

#7 Posted by isomeri (1273 posts) -

@jimmyfenix: @jimmyfenix: Specs are almost meaningless, but that doesn't mean that they can't mention if they hadn't tweaked the specs. How would it be better if they didn't tell anyone that they changed their console specs?

And yeah, the tweak sounds minuscule but if they can pull it off then why not.

#8 Posted by Deranged (1837 posts) -

Oh goodie! More specs that make absolutely no sense to me!

#9 Edited by alwaysbebombing (1584 posts) -

Oh my god, it doesn't matter. Games on the consoles are going to look the same, can we stop talking about a difference of like, 50 Mhz

#10 Posted by Blu3V3nom07 (4207 posts) -

Oh cool! Could come in handy by the time Halo 5 rolls around.

#11 Posted by EvilNiGHTS (1093 posts) -

BLAST PROCESSING.

#12 Posted by Krakn3Dfx (2490 posts) -

Microsoft downloaded MSI Afterburner!

Still tho, cool that they're squeaking a bit more power out.

Whitten also said they their new 'mono driver' allows them to 'write to the metal', so that'll probably introduce some sort of increase at a certain level.

The thing about both systems is that they will both be in a constant state of flux as far as driver/tool revisions for the next 7-8 years, just like they've been every generation. 53Mhz is not a lot, ideally it will offer another 2-4fps of speed under certain situations. It's not huge, but it's a start.

#13 Posted by Humanity (9212 posts) -

@extomar said:

Did they turn on the "go faster bit" or find some lost MHz in the documentation for the hardware?

If people wonder why I am always harping on the XBox One is because they seem to be throwing a lot of meaningless stuff around.

I think people are more curious why your harping is always so petty.

#14 Edited by Deranged (1837 posts) -

You know at this point, I would be infinitely more interested by a release date over these spec announcements.

#15 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

Microsoft downloaded MSI Afterburner!

Still tho, cool that they're squeaking a bit more power out.

Whitten also said they their new 'mono driver' allows them to 'write to the metal', so that'll probably introduce some sort of increase at a certain level.

The thing about both systems is that they will both be in a constant state of flux as far as driver/tool revisions for the next 7-8 years, just like they've been every generation. 53Mhz is not a lot, ideally it will offer another 2-4fps of speed under certain situations. It's not huge, but it's a start.

But this also means more risks of hardware burning out. I do not think this is a wise decision given the fact that the knowingly released a fault system with the 360 back than just to have a headstart.

#16 Edited by alternate (2702 posts) -

@alternate: http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/06/28/xbox-exec-comparing-console-specs-is-meaningless They did say it. The only thing i care about is that this console better not red ring and runs quiet and it looks like they might get that right.

Says right there - the comparison is meaningless,. does not say that the baseline specs of their machine is meaning less. Like saying the greater engine size on an american muscle car is meaningless if it can't go around a corner. Not that I think the comparison is meaningless - just clarifying what he is saying.

#17 Edited by alternate (2702 posts) -

@darji said:

But this also means more risks of hardware burning out. I do not think this is a wise decision given the fact that the knowingly released a fault system with the 360 back than just to have a headstart.

Not really. It is more that the binning on the manufacture was better, so when they tested the chips they could clock a little higher while maintaining the heat targets they had specified. Like overclocking your home gfx card 6% - well within tolerances.

With them using low power components designed for mobiles, the size of the case and (hopefully) not using cheap soldier etc like last time - I would be amazed if either console has heating issues.

#18 Edited by Krakn3Dfx (2490 posts) -

@darji: MS has no doubt been very conservative about power vs. thermals in the XBO due in large part to the 360 debacle. Could they still screw it up? Sure. Will they? Unlikely.

#19 Edited by EXTomar (4722 posts) -

@humanity said:

@extomar said:

Did they turn on the "go faster bit" or find some lost MHz in the documentation for the hardware?

If people wonder why I am always harping on the XBox One is because they seem to be throwing a lot of meaningless stuff around.

I think people are more curious why your harping is always so petty.

It doesn't feel petty to me nor do I care about this beyond a quick 30 second snark. If some fan was posting Sony nonsense I'd do the same thing.

Too many years of meaningless marketing shout matches that stretch all the way back "Adlib vs SoundBlaster" shows me marketing just has a Mad-Libs book they fill out to try to get fans excited when it turns out the end result didn't change anything for the user experience. In this particular case this is such a tiny improvement where having a marketing front man spout this makes me eye roll. If expressing my disappointment at the almost daily rhetoric is "petty" then I can only shrug.

If their marketing wants to get me to be excited something meaningful like the release date.

#20 Posted by Krakn3Dfx (2490 posts) -

@extomar said:

My PC experience tells me this: Overclocking generally shortens the life span of components. If thing is supposed to last 10 years they might not want to mess with it for such a minor increase.

Just because they want a 10 year console cycle doesn't mean they want your first XBO to last 10 years. It'd be pretty cool in 4-5 years if you bought another one I'm sure.

Just throwing that out there :).

#21 Posted by chiablo (929 posts) -

How many more billions of transistors is this?

#22 Edited by jArmAhead (293 posts) -

@extomar said:

Did they turn on the "go faster bit" or find some lost MHz in the documentation for the hardware?

If people wonder why I am always harping on the XBox One is because they seem to be throwing a lot of meaningless stuff around.

Not to be an ass, but you don't really understand how this sort of thing effects the hardware, and you seem to be ignoring that a minor change means a minor impact on all sides. So a small overclock like this will give them a boost to performance, albeit a small one, but it'll also have an equally small impact on lifespan, which they are already boasting will be very high on the Xbox One.

Comments about them "finding some lost MHz in the documentation for the hardware" is just a smart ass thing to say. Or maybe just naiive. That's not how hardware development works and you've somehow managed to be cynical about a minor increase to performance that will have a minimal on lifespan.

And I fail to see how this is meaningless, you're the one throwing out silly concepts of how computers supposedly work. Maybe you're just not educated on the subject, so it's fine that you don't understand this, but don't just go around making statements like you did in your first comment. It just makes you look like a smart ass. And not a terribly clever one.

Again, not being a dick, it's just how your comments came off. Which is to say, like every other internet individual because Microsoft isn't allowed to do good things, no matter what they do it's got to be bad.

Now, my guess is they were able to do this because they have a closer to production model of the box, ran some tests to see if they could squeeze more out of the box, and found that they could do so safely.

And for the PC users out there that don't quite grasp console development, this will probably look small. Heck, even 100mhz isn't exactly a huge boost honestly. But on a console, 35mhz is a very different beast. I mean, my video card has a core clock speed of something like 1100mhz. It's a relatively high end GTX 680, but it's still much higher than 800mhz, which means the ratio is a bit different.

But as well as that, the way that games utilize the power on consoles is pretty different. And one more post processing effect or fancy particle thingy might be dragged out of those extra 35mhz. It seems small, but such things can make the difference between a cool graphical feature being implemented and it not being implemented.

Sure, it's not going to bring more 60fps games to the console, but I assure you someone will find something to do with those 35mhz, so long as crazy geniuses work at places like Naughty Dog and Epic Games.

#23 Posted by Superfriend (1553 posts) -

Oh my god, it doesn't matter. Games on the consoles are going to look the same, can we stop talking about a difference of like, 50 Mhz

Dude, have you noticed at how games on PS3 and 360 "look the same"? Because they don´t. Hardware specs do matter. A lot, actually.

I don´t think a 50 Mhz increase will do anything spectacular, by the way. It just shows how fucking desperate they are- and if they think overclocking the hardware at the last second will do them any good.. well, the 360´s RROD problem comes to mind. Somebody did not think that console all the way through.

#24 Posted by Syed117 (387 posts) -

Not exactly earth shattering, but glad that massive box and its cooling will allow for any increase at all. More is usually better with these things.

Just glad they continue to push new information on what seems like a daily basis. I was already sold, but things are getting better every day. They will have a massive presence at gamescom. Should be exciting.

#25 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (2769 posts) -

There is a sorry and sordid history of system being changed at teh last minute. I hope this works out for the best, I do HOPE that it does work out, but history shows making changes now is VERY bad.

It is August, if the system is shipping in November that means manufacture starts now, the first system would have been rolling off assembly lines last month to be tested...then torn down. Orders for chips would have been made in May if not earlier, so what about teh cancelled order? What does the manufacturer do when they have been gearing up for a several years worth of one chip only for it to change now? I would assume they PCB need not changed or even the mounting, but what about additional confirmation thermal testing?

This might be a small change, but even this change will cause ripples through the manufacturing because it is an order change to AMD, we want none of these and all you can make of these.

#26 Posted by deadsheepinwoods (14 posts) -

Consistently coming out with new upgrades and improvements almost every day has really swayed me to the Xbox One side. Getting pretty excited to see their showing at Gamescom.

#27 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@krakn3dfx said:

@darji: MS has no doubt been very conservative about power vs. thermals in the XBO due in large part to the 360 debacle. Could they still screw it up? Sure. Will they? Unlikely.

They are in a very critical spot and that is when you try to take as much risks as possible. They change as much as possible and so on. They also could think that they were fine last time when they did that so why not now too? people still bought a ton of defect consoles.

They have no other choice then to take risks right now.

#28 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

What's a mono driver?

#29 Posted by Hunkulese (2722 posts) -

@extomar said:

Did they turn on the "go faster bit" or find some lost MHz in the documentation for the hardware?

If people wonder why I am always harping on the XBox One is because they seem to be throwing a lot of meaningless stuff around.

This is how all gpus and cpus are manufactured. It's impossible to know the ideal operating speed until you have a finished product.

#30 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@extomar said:

Did they turn on the "go faster bit" or find some lost MHz in the documentation for the hardware?

If people wonder why I am always harping on the XBox One is because they seem to be throwing a lot of meaningless stuff around.

This is how all gpus and cpus are manufactured. It's impossible to know the ideal operating speed until you have a finished product.

Is 53 a decent upclock? Also whats a damn mono driver?

#31 Posted by hidys (1029 posts) -

@extomar said:

My PC experience tells me this: Overclocking generally shortens the life span of components. If thing is supposed to last 10 years they might not want to mess with it for such a minor increase.

There was a rumour floating around a while back which said that the machine was running cooler than expected and this was one of the improvements they were considering. It really shouldn't have an impact on the longevity of components.

#32 Posted by Krakn3Dfx (2490 posts) -

What's a mono driver?

Likely a hardware specific driver developed by Microsoft themselves as opposed to a generic driver provided by AMD or the OEM. By designing their own driver, they increase reliability across the combination of hardware in the machine and probably glean a bit more performance out of it as a result.

#33 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@the_laughing_man said:

What's a mono driver?

Likely a hardware specific driver developed by Microsoft themselves as opposed to a generic driver provided by AMD or the OEM. By designing their own driver, they increase reliability across the combination of hardware in the machine and probably glean a bit more performance out of it as a result.

So something nice.

#34 Posted by Haruko (297 posts) -

So they are overclocking it out the door at launch... good luck with that.

#35 Edited by Rowr (5625 posts) -

What's that like an extra 2-5 fps ish?

I guess he is just happily reporting that they are already starting to easily squeeze at it, so thats probably a good indication for the future.

#36 Posted by Krakn3Dfx (2490 posts) -

@krakn3dfx said:

@the_laughing_man said:

What's a mono driver?

Likely a hardware specific driver developed by Microsoft themselves as opposed to a generic driver provided by AMD or the OEM. By designing their own driver, they increase reliability across the combination of hardware in the machine and probably glean a bit more performance out of it as a result.

So something nice.

It's good to have, but it's a given, not something unique to the XBO, all consoles have drivers specifically written for the hardware by the engineers working on the console. I think both the MHz increase and talking about a 'mono driver' are both things aimed at shoring up confidence with core gamers than anything that's actually new or special in some way. This is the internet tho, and even a conversation on a podcast between 2 employees of the same company who are talking about spec changes and drivers will get latched on by every generic gaming news site there is.

#37 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

Wonder if they will kick it up any more before release. But its still a nice note. CARMACK HAS SPOKEN

#38 Edited by Cirdain (3089 posts) -

Wonder if they will kick it up any more before release. But its still a nice note. CARMACK HAS SPOKEN

Ha!

#39 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@cirdain said:

@the_laughing_man said:

Wonder if they will kick it up any more before release. But its still a nice note. CARMACK HAS SPOKEN

Ha!

He also said they are more or less the same system which I find funny as hell.

#40 Posted by Krakn3Dfx (2490 posts) -

Wonder if they will kick it up any more before release. But its still a nice note. CARMACK HAS SPOKEN

Not to belittle Carmack's influence on gaming, he's awesome and brilliant, but he's beholden to Bethesda/Zenimax now, so him offering any sort of comparison between the XBO and PS4 is going to be in the interest of selling as many copies of Bethsoft games on both platforms as possible. I was surprised that he dug into the Kinect the way he did, and even then it was with the caveat "it's just not for me" more than it's useless for gaming (Prediction: No Kinect support in Doom 4).

Apparently they had a small Q&A with him after he spoke on stage, and someone asked about Doom 4, and he said he wanted to talk about it, but the front office told him he couldn't, if that tells you anything.

#41 Posted by mikey87144 (1772 posts) -

Anyone else worried about hardware issues? Isn't it kind of late in the game to be adjusting specs, however marginally? They should've began production by now.

#43 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

Anyone else worried about hardware issues? Isn't it kind of late in the game to be adjusting specs, however marginally? They should've began production by now.

They said the system was running a whole lot cooler then they thought it would.

#44 Posted by Cirdain (3089 posts) -

@the_laughing_man said:

Wonder if they will kick it up any more before release. But its still a nice note. CARMACK HAS SPOKEN

Not to belittle Carmack's influence on gaming, he's awesome and brilliant, but he's beholden to Bethesda/Zenimax now, so him offering any sort of comparison between the XBO and PS4 is going to be in the interest of selling as many copies of Bethsoft games on both platforms as possible. I was surprised that he dug into the Kinect the way he did, and even then it was with the caveat "it's just not for me" more than it's useless for gaming (Prediction: No Kinect support in Doom 4).

Apparently they had a small Q&A with him after he spoke on stage, and someone asked about Doom 4, and he said he wanted to talk about it, but the front office told him he couldn't, if that tells you anything.

YEAH CARMACK'S TOTALLY BIASED!

In-Engine: XO vs PS4

THIS IS SCIENCE!!!

#45 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@cirdain said:

@krakn3dfx said:

@the_laughing_man said:

Wonder if they will kick it up any more before release. But its still a nice note. CARMACK HAS SPOKEN

Not to belittle Carmack's influence on gaming, he's awesome and brilliant, but he's beholden to Bethesda/Zenimax now, so him offering any sort of comparison between the XBO and PS4 is going to be in the interest of selling as many copies of Bethsoft games on both platforms as possible. I was surprised that he dug into the Kinect the way he did, and even then it was with the caveat "it's just not for me" more than it's useless for gaming (Prediction: No Kinect support in Doom 4).

Apparently they had a small Q&A with him after he spoke on stage, and someone asked about Doom 4, and he said he wanted to talk about it, but the front office told him he couldn't, if that tells you anything.

YEAH CARMACK'S TOTALLY BIASED!

In-Engine: XO vs PS4

THIS IS SCIENCE!!!

So Doom remake confirmed? Everything is the same just next gen graphics.

#46 Posted by Cirdain (3089 posts) -

@mikey87144 said:

Anyone else worried about hardware issues? Isn't it kind of late in the game to be adjusting specs, however marginally? They should've began production by now.

They said the system was running a whole lot cooler then they thought it would.

Everything is downclocked anyways to increase reliability. So they can poke it a bit and be well within safe thresholds. My 660 GTI runs 915 MHz and be poked to 980 MHz. But I guess that there's pretty huge differences with the APU architecture.

#47 Edited by Krakn3Dfx (2490 posts) -

@cirdain said:

@krakn3dfx said:

@the_laughing_man said:

Wonder if they will kick it up any more before release. But its still a nice note. CARMACK HAS SPOKEN

Not to belittle Carmack's influence on gaming, he's awesome and brilliant, but he's beholden to Bethesda/Zenimax now, so him offering any sort of comparison between the XBO and PS4 is going to be in the interest of selling as many copies of Bethsoft games on both platforms as possible. I was surprised that he dug into the Kinect the way he did, and even then it was with the caveat "it's just not for me" more than it's useless for gaming (Prediction: No Kinect support in Doom 4).

Apparently they had a small Q&A with him after he spoke on stage, and someone asked about Doom 4, and he said he wanted to talk about it, but the front office told him he couldn't, if that tells you anything.

YEAH CARMACK'S TOTALLY BIASED!

In-Engine: XO vs PS4

THIS IS SCIENCE!!!

I don't think he's biased at all, but he has bigger masters now that Zenimax owns id, so he's definitely on more of a leash when it comes to competing tech companies that Zenimax will have products on.

He kind of got a dig in at the Wii U tho, which probably indicates how many Zenimax games we'll see anytime soon on a Nintendo platform.

#48 Edited by EXTomar (4722 posts) -

Clearly the one that supports Occulus Rift is the one that integrates with SCIENCE.

#49 Posted by Cirdain (3089 posts) -

@cirdain said:

@krakn3dfx said:

@the_laughing_man said:

Wonder if they will kick it up any more before release. But its still a nice note. CARMACK HAS SPOKEN

Not to belittle Carmack's influence on gaming, he's awesome and brilliant, but he's beholden to Bethesda/Zenimax now, so him offering any sort of comparison between the XBO and PS4 is going to be in the interest of selling as many copies of Bethsoft games on both platforms as possible. I was surprised that he dug into the Kinect the way he did, and even then it was with the caveat "it's just not for me" more than it's useless for gaming (Prediction: No Kinect support in Doom 4).

Apparently they had a small Q&A with him after he spoke on stage, and someone asked about Doom 4, and he said he wanted to talk about it, but the front office told him he couldn't, if that tells you anything.

YEAH CARMACK'S TOTALLY BIASED!

In-Engine: XO vs PS4

THIS IS SCIENCE!!!

So Doom remake confirmed? Everything is the same just next gen graphics.

DAT GAMEPLAY'S TIMELESS......

Doom became [something] then became Serious Sam then became [something else I don't know] then became Borderlands 1&2. THIS IS MY OPINION, I'M AN EXPERT!

#50 Posted by Krakn3Dfx (2490 posts) -

So Doom remake confirmed? Everything is the same just next gen graphics.

They announced a new version of Doom 4 was in the works back in April, I'm guessing that's still a thing, especially since Rage 2 was cancelled.