A bit disappointed about the ending... (HUGE spoilers)

If you didn't see it in the title, this thread contains huge spoilers. Go away if you haven't beaten the game yet.

So anyway, I know I'm like two years behind when it comes to this game, and I even created a thread about this half a year ago saying I would not play it after I got that game breaking bug on my 3DS copy of the game, but I bit the bullet, bought the game for my VITA, and played through the entire thing.

Anyway, with that out of the way, I just want to know how others feel about the ending, and I just want to rant about it and get my thoughts written down.

I found it to be very off putting, and no where near as effective as the ending of 999. The ending of the first game was great - learning that Junpei could actually access the morphogenetic field and you were actually playing as Akane the entire time blew my freaking mind. It was a twist I genuinely didn't see coming, and I loved it for that. I also enjoyed how the game ends on a high note, despite all of the endings except the 'true' ending involving the cast dying. Finally, I liked how it explained itself pretty neatly, not leaving much of a cliffhanger at all or anything that really called for a second game.

This leads into my complaints regarding the second game's ending. First of all, it really feels like they were trying WAY too hard to top the twist from the first game by not only have one reveal, but by having around fifty thousand. You're on the moon, you're actually 45 years in the future, the human race is practically extinct, YOU are Zero, and you're an old man who has a really convoluted plot to try and save humanity. The reveals just kept coming, and it made me yearn for the much more (relatively) simplistic ending of 999.

First of all, how in the WORLD did you not realize that your body was 45 years older? They explained that the gravity made sure you wouldn't noticed your reduced strength, but come ON! I think the wrinkles, and everything else would clue you in, not to mention the freaking robotic eye you have! How in the world did he not notice that, and why did NO one find this odd and decide to bring this up with him? What the hell?

Secondly, why in the world was the moon base necessary? The only reason I can think of for setting it on the moon was for the reveal that the Earth was now red, that's it. It just feels like such an unnecessary setting otherwise.

Finally, did anyone else just kind of feel bummed out by all of this? Other than the whole Morphogenetic field bit of the first game, it was pretty grounded, but this game just throws that completely out the window. It feels like Pirates of the Caribbean 2, which tried to make the series feel much more epic by adding in a lot of subplots and a much higher stakes story, but it was still nowhere near as good as the first movie.

That leads into my thoughts regarding the ending, and just how inconclusive it was. I was actually kind of upset that nothing HAPPENED at the end of the game. You don't save humanity, you don't see what the events of the past were that led up to Radical-6 being released and ending humanity as we know it, the game is essentially just building up to the third game (assuming it's ever made). You accomplish NOTHING at the end of the game, everything you do is to train your character for an event that you don't even get to experience or see the outcome of.

The first game actually had a satisfying ending - you defeat the bad guys, and you saved Akane in the past (with a really dramatic sequence that VLR lacked). I just hate the lack of a real conclusion in this game.

Just felt like spending a half hour writing this up as I thought about the game. I didn't hate it, but I certainly enjoyed the journey a LOT more than the destination.

While I appreciated just how bat-shit crazy it all went, VLR absolutely shits the bed in the last hour or so: pointless twists, nonsensical plot points, and a cliffhanger that has pissed me off probably more than any other to date. I really still really like VLR, but it's a huge bummer that the developers seemed to feel the need to top everything from the first game in the craziest way possible. A little restraint could have gone a long way.

Completely agree. Also, with the new-ish development that Zero Escape 3 may not be localized, that cliffhanger sucks even more.

Exactly! The ending was just TOO much, and they really should have restrained themselves. Ending the game on a cliffhanger is also kind of a dick move. I hate it when developers end their games with a huge cliffhanger, especially if they're uncertain if a sequel game will even be made. This is like Shenmue 2 all over again.

I think this is probably why I didn't really like the end of the first game.

By VLR, I was expecting batshit. I don't think either game really ends well, but--like you--I thought the journeys were awesome.

I liked VLR's ending. The cliffhanger epilogue was lame (but 999 had a shit cliffhanger epilogue too, remember Alice standing in the desert at the end?)

Since VLR3 isn't being created at all, then I just want a cliffnotes version of what was going to happen.

There are basically two major problems with VLR. One, it's clear it was written with the idea that they would pull a bunch of crazy stuff that would be fleshed out in the third game. Problem is that it didn't sell enough and now there's no third game in development. Two, the writer lifted a TON of plot points and twists from Ever17, a visual novel that he assisted in writing like a decade ago. Those plot twists are executed so much better in Ever17 that I find it a bit disappointing most peoples' exposure to them are through VLR's hamhanded attempt at re-creating them.

Yeah Ever17 was amazing.

Though not as good as any book ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I enjoyed the ending to VLR quite a bit. I was expecting it to turn the craziness up and it sure did deliver.

I think you're giving the ending of 999 too much credit: you play sudoku to save someone's life in the past.

Agreed. Videogames all have shit stories anyway

(compared to books, movies, textbooks)

Robotic arms kept up the illusion that he was still young since they had no wrinkles. Also there were no working mirrors anywhere in the base. You do come across one mirror, but it was too dirty to see into. About the eye, how would you you be able to tell if you had a robotic eye or not? If the robotic eye functions just like a regular eye than Sigma would be none the wiser. Also, many people throughout the game made comments about your age. You may have missed them at the time, but go back and be amazed.

It all has to do with Radical-6. They had to slow Sigma and Phi's brain down so they could control their time jump ability better IIRC, but if they did this on earth, they would all notice the change after being infected, but not on the moon.

Oh, you're right. I completely forgot about the second point, but I'm still unconvinced about the first point. Some of the pictures you see of yourself show a metal object protruding from your eye, and I just find it unbelievable that you wouldn't notice that, let alone your body is sixty years old when you were twenty previous. Even if they're on the moon, it's just a really tough pill for me to swallow.

The ending to VLR went TOO far with the craziness I felt. After so many twists and turns, and then bringing even MORE up, it just started to get ridiculous. I liked 999's ending a lot more because it's so much more simplistic and didn't rely on so many twists to shock the reader. Also, as easy as that Sudoku puzzle was, it was great when Morphogenetic Sorrow was playing in the background, and it had a real sense of urgency to it (even if it's not timed) because you wanted to save Akane before she got incinerated.

Yeah, the lack of a third game really soured me to the amount of cliff hangers this game had. While the first game did have one, it wasn't nearly as big, and it didn't necessitate the creation of a sequel to explain it. The second game makes a third game VITAL to get the whole story.

I don't know, I enjoyed it overall. I kind of sat back, went along for the ride, and let it wash over me. It's like the second season of a show where the writer really starts to flex his or her muscle and push things in the direction that they envisioned from the start. Once the crazy stuff started happening in 999, it kind of let loose the flood gates for all kinds of crazy shit to go down. At first everything seems pretty normal, the stories the characters tell just dance on the edge of the fantastic, but there's no basis of truth until the end when suddenly telepathy through time is possible. At that point, I realized that anything is possible in this universe, so the twists in VLR aren't quite as shocking.

Super bummed that we may potentially never get the third game as it really lowers VLR from a great game to a good one if it never reaches its proper conclusion.

I remember making these arguments when VLR came out and getting yelled at. VLR is far, far inferior to 999 in my opinion and I would even go as far to say that a sequel to 999 shouldn't have even been made. The story was self contained enough as it was, and the expansion of fiction they attempted just became too convoluted and twisty whereas the focus of 999 was perfect. There were enjoyable sections of VLR, but overall I wish the talents had worked to craft another original story instead of a sequel to 999

I loved VLR and 999. They're both excellent games. VLR gets bonus points for me for going deeper into thought experiments with a much more interesting setting. I love all the stuff it set up and I'm super pumped for a third game, if it ever happens. If not, well, it was a good series while it lasted.

Man, Akane is so ice cold in these two games. She's such a badass character. I loved the GOL-Ms and the general insanity of the plot. So much fun.

I loved the game right up until the last few twists. I thought Luna towards the end, especially when she was just standing outside the elevator was really goddamn chilling. I think the gravity thing was completely stupid, and I don't know, I think after 25 hours being so damn confused just wanting to know who the hell zero was, where they hell they were etc. NOTHING could have been good enough.

Did anyone really see the main (age difference) twist coming? Like, was there REALLY any way to see it coming? I think maybe that was the biggest bummer.

Overall, I loved the characters, the 'love to hate' relationship I had with Dio, but damn they loved explaining shit way too much.

Yeah, one of the main things I didn't like about the game was that the plot would come to a freaking halt all the time so the characters can explain every single little detail. I know you need to know what's up, but man, there has to be a better way than this.

And yeah, I hated Dio as much as I liked him.

Basically agree with everything you said. The end was a huge letdown, the most unsatisfying kind of cliffhanger that left unanswered all the questions you really wanted the answer to...and after sooooo much work to get thru such a long game. The unfortunate thing is that a 3rd game is looking less and less likely right now because the Zero Escape games are not as popular in Japan as the West. Last I heard the developers had not secured the funding to make the next game.

VLR is a lot less dumb than 999; it does have plot holes as any other pseudo science time travel piece of fiction will, but they're not as gapingly massive as "I'm evil because I can't see faces." On the whole the narrative is much more cohesive, however the bad endings are nowhere near as entertaining as the ones in 999. The biggest issue is that Phi is an enigma from start to finish with lots of sequel bait to counter that, but if the sequel baiting fails then we're just left with Phi as an enigma. Lulz gravity.

I agree with some of the points made but i don't think the ending par say disappointed me. It still was a wild ride and i love how they toke the morphogenetic field to the next level when it came to the game play. It sure did have some plot holes, mainly in how he looks never really comes up aside from some clever words of calling him an "old man" and some of the people asking him to do "his thing" when searching/solving clues.

I just don't like how a lot of the characters don't seem to matter aside from one interesting plot device among each of them. Also how the main character of 999 just gets thrown to the way side of the overall plot with some weird side business. With no context of zero and phi we still don't have much info of who they are. I care more about how this crazy story wraps up than i do about the characters who will be driving us home in the third game (if it ever comes out).

Sure 999 had its own plot holes with the ice 9 business and Alice mystery not really going anywhere aside from being misdirection. But i felt at least some of the characters had more of an impact or relevance on the overall story in 999. Also it may just be a personal thing but the tune in 999 was a lot more haunting and serious. It felt like a game of death while VLR had more of a light hearted creepy vibe that did not really make me feel anyone was in danger. I know humor sells more than something that could be seen as a downer so i get it business wise.

Uh, I was thinking, is it ever mentioned why Sigma makes cat puns all the time? Please don't tell me it was all a subtle jab at Schrodinger's cat the entire game, please tell me it probably is something that would have been fleshed out in a sequel.

@drekly: Presumably puns and creepy-old-man-ness are all part of being Zero Sr.

One of the gold files states that he met a Cat God while he was a child, and made it so he could talk to cats, but he couldn't tell anyone. Sigma predictably goes and blabs about it at the first opportunity, so the Black Cat God came back and cursed him to ALWAYS speak in cat puns. However, a little later, the White Cat God came and made it less harsh, so he only speaks in cat puns when the topic of conversation is about cats.

The only part of the story that was frustrating was the part where it ended on the most egregious cliffhanger I've ever seen out of the cast involved with the storytelling of this game and several others (even more of a cliffhanger than Remember11, which had the most mindfuck ending to a story I've ever encountered).

The only reason the story was disappointing was because it laid out a clear story path to a sequel which will either take a long while to be produced or never make it to an international release depending on sales figures. Everything else about it is just fine, and entirely as crazy - yet sane - as I expected given the writing staff. I suppose the only other knock I had was that it did choose to tie itself in so closely to the events of 999, but that was more an expectation mismatch brought about by the title of the game itself in its initial translation, masking the fact it was a direct sequel to 999 despite sharing some characters.

Like someone said above, the reason is mentioned in a gold file, but the "reason" he does it...

The cat puns hint towards him being Zero Sr. Zero Jr is always making rabbit puns and Zero Jr was created by Zero Sr. So Zero Sr would have to be someone who really likes to make stupid puns.

This is one of the few games I have walked away from and been actually mad about the ending. I finished it a few days ago (total playtime ~40hrs; played the last ~nine in a single sitting I was so invested in it), and the last five or so hours really soured the experience (I haven't stopped thinking of new ways it disappointed since I finished it).

Up until the ending, the level of intrigue in the story was excellent, and you could see the plot threads coming together (everyone has Radical-6; Tenmyouji is Junpei; there is time-manipulation involved; the AB-rooms can be treated as a quantum experiment; maybe the purpose of the facility is to find a cure of Radical-6 etc.), but the ending just throws it all away. Bearly anything is explained, and the explanations are very hand-wavy.

Major questions are unanswered (what happens to Alice/Clover?; Who is Phi?; Why do Akane's robes have the Free the Soul insignia if we are trying to stop their plot?; where did Radical-6 come from?; Why were we given the explanation that this was to stop the Radical-6 release, only for it not to work?; How did Sigma not notice he was old?; How do we control the timeleaps/make Sigma just into the game?), and the game just piles on reveals until the whole thing collapses under its own weight (say what will like about MGS2, but at least it gave some answers - the ending here feels about the same level of mad/backloaded, but just keeps piling on the questions and explains nothing)

To cap it all of off, the final ending that unlocks is just a giant sequel hook, and just leaves you feeling "You want any of that explained? Maybe you should play ZE3...." (you actually end up playing as a character refered to as '?' in that ending, which I think symbolises the last five hours of the game pretty well). After the extremely tight and well-crafted ending of 999 (which I played immediately prior to this), VLR was a major let down (999 has its dumb cliffhanger - Alice in the desert - but that was a throwaway moment after the main plot was resolved). I actually wish I had stopped playing before getting to the Q room.

Playing VLR directly after 999 really does make for a weird experience. I played 999 leading up to VLR's release and initially jumped right into it, but the difference in tone was so offputting that I wound up stepping away and coming back months later, which made it a bit easier to adjust to.

I enjoyed VLR, and to an extent I appreciate the level of bonkers it took things to (I'm a sucker for "you, the player" being a direct narrative factor in games), but yeah, it definitely left me wondering if the series would have been better served by beginning and ending with 999. It kind of reminds me of Back to the Future 2, upping the "cool stuff" factor but losing sight of the core that made the original special. 999 was a perfect, self-contained package, setting up all manner of batshit insanity and somehow paying it all off and tying it up in an awesome little bow. VLR piles on crazy shit and it's fun, but it gets to be too sprawling by the end, and I don't think I gave a damn about a single character along the way.

I'm not really getting my hopes up, I don't see how they could realistically end the series in a way that's nearly as satisfying as 999's ending, but I'm really curious to see if they can somehow retroactively justify sequels to 999 with Zero Time Dilemma.