Giant Bomb Forza Race Night: Thursdays, 10:30 PM ET

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#151 Posted by Jugnutts (436 posts) -
@ShaggyChu: HAHA, I thought of you first when i saw this. I was like......"Falcon is going to be pissed!"...
#152 Posted by Falconer (1695 posts) -

So last Friday/Saturday I played Forza for nearly the entire time I was awake for the OCTOBERKAST. I've been playing today while listening to the Bombcast and will watch Tested live later, and my left finger STILL hurts from last week. So much Forza... But at least I'm up to level 53 now, and more importantly, have 5M credits already. M3 GTR, you will be mine.

#153 Posted by Trace (3574 posts) -

Some bad news.

In attempting to set the rules for Clunker Pushing, I've learned that multiplayer only permits a maximum of four teams. This is a shame, yes, since it forces us to turn Clunker Pushing more into the Cat & Mouse event in disguise that it is.

However, I'm simply going to say one clunker and up to three pushers per team will lead to a new and exciting version of our game mode.

I call it Super Sloppy Clunker Pushing. Look for it tomorrow.

#154 Posted by mfpantst (2574 posts) -
@PsEG: Hey so how do you all run the car soccer?  I tried some of the 'official mode' (never having plaid car soccer except seen it on the top gears) and it seemed fucked class wise.  Anyways I was wondering if you use the soccer court do you deviate from the class restrictions at all or is there a convention?  i saw what seemed like an ungodly quantity of hummers and tourags to be fun
#155 Posted by Trace (3574 posts) -

@mfpantst: Generally, in the past and present, we've run Car Soccer with no class restrictions whatsoever. Fast four-wheel-drive vehicles with good launch tend to do the best, but the new Car Soccer balances out the choice even more by making it so that faster cars just end up throwing the ball behind them if they try using too much speed. Only once have we banned a car for being too good (the Bugatti Veyron in Forza 3).

We'll also sometimes have games where the teams can only use one car make/model, but that's not as common.

#156 Posted by mfpantst (2574 posts) -

@PsEG: That's good to know, playing against hummer in a moderaltely quick 4wd car was not fun.

#157 Posted by Falconer (1695 posts) -

I was nosing around the Turn 10 forums, and... I'm not gonna go on a rant or anything, but yah know what? The idea, nonetheless implementation, of unicorn cars is totally fucked when you think about it.

#158 Posted by pakx (922 posts) -

hey i was wondering if for Car Soccer tomorrow we can try a game of all Fiat 500 Abarths.

#159 Posted by Trace (3574 posts) -

@ShaggyChu said:

I was nosing around the Turn 10 forums, and... I'm not gonna go on a rant or anything, but yah know what? The idea, nonetheless implementation, of unicorn cars is totally fucked when you think about it.

Always has been. It's a bit confusing they seemed to expand on the concept further without offering additional means to obtain unicorns. At least it's a good way to discover users who are engaging in credit fraud when they're bidding an insane amount of money in the auction house.

Receiving one unicorn at driver level 150 or 51 (or both)? That'd be nifty.

#160 Posted by pakx (922 posts) -

wait level 150? is that seriously the level cap?

#161 Posted by mfpantst (2574 posts) -

@PsEG: I'd got for 51 :) Probably get there by friday and a unicorn would be a nice gift.

@pakx: I like this. I do think there should be some authentic car soccer. Of course that means aigos, but I mean what I mean.

#162 Posted by MikkaQ (10319 posts) -

@pakx said:

hey i was wondering if for Car Soccer tomorrow we can try a game of all Fiat 500 Abarths.

Yes please. Also the Chevy Volts were pretty fun too.

#163 Edited by Falconer (1695 posts) -

@PsEG: Well, I think everyone knows at this point I'm pissed about the M3 GTR being behind an inaccessible wall for absolutely no reason. Turn 10 boasts about having loads of cars for everyone, and after three games (well, only two that I've played) and hundreds of hours I finally found my favorite car. A car that I never would have before thought I would like in any special way. And now I can't have it because Turn 10 arbitrarily decided it's special.

I'm going to keep saving my credits, but that's probably a crap shoot. Eventually I'm going to have to break down to going onto the Turn 10 forums and using the unicorn cars I do have in order to barter for an M3 GTR.

I kinda want to write a review of Forza 4, just so people know how amazing and totally fucked this game is at the same time.

#164 Posted by KamikazeCaterpillar (1179 posts) -

Oh man 10:30pm is when I have to leave for work on Thursdays :(

#165 Posted by pakx (922 posts) -

@PsEG: Happy Race Night birthday, fearless leader! expect a birthday car in your inbox today when you boot up forza.

#166 Posted by Devildoll (899 posts) -

10:30 pm ET , jesus , thats 4:30 am in the morning here in swedenland.

wouldnt be a problem if it wasnt in the middle of the week though.

are there any giantbomb races going on at my side of the pond? or perhaps a bit eariler than 10:30 pm ET?

#167 Posted by slowbird (1737 posts) -

@ShaggyChu said:

@PsEG: Well, I think everyone knows at this point I'm pissed about the M3 GTR being behind an inaccessible wall for absolutely no reason. Turn 10 boasts about having loads of cars for everyone, and after three games (well, only two that I've played) and hundreds of hours I finally found my favorite car. A car that I never would have before thought I would like in any special way. And now I can't have it because Turn 10 arbitrarily decided it's special.

I'm going to keep saving my credits, but that's probably a crap shoot. Eventually I'm going to have to break down to going onto the Turn 10 forums and using the unicorn cars I do have in order to barter for an M3 GTR.

I kinda want to write a review of Forza 4, just so people know how amazing and totally fucked this game is at the same time.

Some say he already has three BMW M3 GTRs in his garage, and that he is definitely NOT Falcon 304. All we know is, he's called The Stig!

#168 Posted by pakx (922 posts) -

i seem to have one of these BMW M3 GTRs in my garage... i think?

so for Laz's birthday i've given him a copy of my current favorite car with my setup for it: the A Class Cosworth.

i also gave it a special paint job before i gifted it to him:

Happy Birthday, Laz!

#169 Posted by mfpantst (2574 posts) -
@ShaggyChu said:

So the AI makes R2 and R1 class races stupidly difficult. I'm not so much saying the AI is always harder in these races. They're the same the have been throughout the game (in other words, pretty fucking terrible). It's... a combination of things. To start off,

  1. You get placed in the middle or back on the starting grid
  2. Cars in front of you are slow on the front stretch off the line, or straight up crash in front of you

The combination of these two things make the highest class races harder than they should be. Why? Well, the obvious one is that I'm being held up in a big way by these fucking stupid, shitty AI cars in front of me. I find myself needing to restart multiple times in order to get a good start and around the slow AI before the first turn.

This then causes another problem. In the R2 and R1 classes, the chances of me and the top three AI racers using the same car (or a similarly spec'ed car) is nearly 100%. Combined with the fact that I'm slowed down at the start, I can't catch up very fast because my car is identical to fucking Rossi (or whoever the Asian or European driver is).

Also, the top two AI is fucked on a scale that I haven't taken notice to in the previous two Forza games. First off, catching up to them is insanely difficult. Make jokes all you want, but I'm a competent Forza racer, and there's absolutely no pressure in single player. But on multiple occasions now I have needed to literally dive bomb the second place car in order to catch up (I'm so good at it now that I almost never damage anything internal). I might not have this problem if I didn't have a shitty starting spot, AI in front of me slowing me down, and the top two AI being set on perfect (something I can't change because Turn 10 has needlessly taken this option away from the player).

But what sets me over the edge is that once I have passed the second place car, the first place car pretty much moves over for me a few turns later. WHAT HAPPENED TO BEING SO PERFECT?! After I've passed both of them, THEY'RE NOWHERE TO BE SEEN. I get that far out ahead of them.

TLDR; The AI in Forza 4 is fucked in a way that I have never seen before.

Ok so I just finished the penultimate season last night and dug through for your post.  Mainly because somewhere halfway through the prior season I started racing almost 100% r3 and up (and later almost all R2/R1 cars).  And I have some comments.  First, this last season is where I have begun thinking about getting a clean lap.  I've pretty much given up on lap one being 'clean.' but fairly often lap 2 or 3 are clean (and fast).  So here's what i've noticed on the things you've said:
1) Yes, starting in the middle of the grid is hard.  Everyone takes the first 2-4 turns extremely slow because the pack gets piled up.  After 4 turns or so the pack stretches out and you can start working for position at normal speed.  I kinda felt like this is a little exaggerated in the game, but in GT1/2 and LMP racing, usually the first few turns from a start are insane irl, so this makes sense to me.  Patience was key for me.
2) On the top cars- my R2 go-to car was either my tuned Mazda Furia (for R2 non GT limited races) or the Maserati GT car.  I observed those dual saleens almost 100% of the time taking the top spot in R2 racing.  In R1 racing, over half the cars were some sort of Audi car so I didn't notice this as much because everyone was in an audi.  Also, on the worldwide races for r2 classes, I was usually competing for top spot with the nsx racing car and one of the nissan's and sometimes the saleens.  Since the honda is the only one I rode (or is it an acura? I can't remember) from that list I found the R2 class pretty engaging.  Also whenever I took the Merc R2 out for a spin I was one of only 2 mercs in the race and the other one was usually in the back.  
3) I spend time tuning my cars.  By default all the R3-R1 cars are geared way to long.  I think my Maserati's top geared speed was like 230 mph when I first got it.  I tuned that fucker down to like 170, and all of the sudden I had the fast car.  Sure, on sarthe you have to up the gearing a bit so you don't get blown out on the straightaway, but on most GT friendly racetracks 160-170 is about tops, so why not gear your car to get exactly to that speed.  You hit max speed faster than the computers.  Also with that you can then adjust your suspension, braking and aero for max grip.  Then when you are full speed fighting dudes for position you have the cornering advantage.  Just saying.
 
Anyways, the main thing you said that I DO agree with is your last point.  There's a 'pressure' system set up in the AI.  If you are tailing a dude waiting to outcorner him and he's in 1st or and, eventually he'll just miss a corner and go into a wall.  It happens fairly regularly which is totally odd.  And also once you get the lead its fairly regular that you have a huge lead for the rest of the race.  I agree with you.  That's kinda messed up.  However, I have had races where the 2nd place dude did claw back (through not my mistakes) and that made for a fun last lap.
 
I haven't started/finished the final season yet, so I'll be sure to report back.   But on the penultimate season in R3-R1 racing I haven't seen alot of what you're talking about (or not as bad, I kinda expect a 1st turn pileup, to me that's all about patience and timing).  there was one race though, that I saw probably everything you listed.  It was an all Audi LMP race on the short oval, 15 laps.  After lap 7 the AI broke (or something) and every loop there was a car upside down or sideways, or stopped.  And of course, at 180 mph I hit one of the fuckers.  Restarted that race after 13 laps because eventually every car was spinning on the bends.  Then on the next race, there were accidents to be sure, but not at the level I experienced the race just prior.  I think some of what you're seeing and what I saw in those two races was a programmed 'randomness.'  as if maybe the AI is set to not provide the same experience each time?
#170 Posted by Renahzor (995 posts) -

@ShaggyChu: @mfpantst: I think the adaptive AI has a huge amount to do with how people experience these races. I'd have to ask if either of you use rewind or re-start races where you've made a mistake and will lose a considerable amount of spots because of it. The AI ramps up significantly after season 2, and then seems like it tries to adjust more aggressively toward your skill level in subsequent seasons. From what I read there are about 20 different skill levels associated with world tour difficulty, and as you win the skill level increases based on how far ahead you were etc. By judicious use of rewind some people may actually get the skill level far beyond their own actual skill.

I've kept all assists including rewind off from the beginning, and I rarely restart unless I smash my car up in the first corner and don't want to drive 5 more laps with a busted motor. I'd say at least 1/3 of my races I have not finished first, with a large chunk of those not even finishing on the podium. this lets the AI back off a bit because they're running lap times I can't really catch in some cars. It also makes the game a bit of a see-saw on difficulty because it's constantly tweaking skill up or down, which I don't mind. In addition R2/R1 are so evenly matched, you can easily come off a decent win and have AI one step tougher than you were anticipating.

As an added note, the world championship races with 2 heats have improved AI every time, so they're always a bit more difficult than every other race. My only real AI complaint is their aggression at holding their racing line when you're trying to pass. I understand it sometimes, say when you're trying to pass for 1st on the last corner of a race. But mid race overtaking for 6th I get a little annoyed that I have to muscle my way past even after out braking the AI, they will not give up their line unless you are past door-door with them in many cases.

#171 Posted by mfpantst (2574 posts) -
@Renahzor: It'd be cool if they gave you some way of seeing what they compute your skill level at.  So I don't use rewind, though I do restart here and there (but not often, and usually only for lap one mistakes).  All the other assists I turn off, i run with 'normal' steering and auto shifting.  The irony for me on the world championship races is I always seem to fare better in the second race than the first.  I think that has to do with I settle in on the first race and by the second race know the track pretty well.  I have seen the aggressive race line holding, although since I tune for grip I usually either pass on the braking up to the turn or pass on the outside on a turn as I can take the turn faster.
#172 Posted by matt_wickstrom (156 posts) -

Is the AI not adaptive if you just pick races to do from the event list? That's what I've been doing, rather than Season Play.

#173 Posted by Renahzor (995 posts) -

@matt_wickstrom: From the event list, the AI is simply whichever of the (i think) 5 levels you pick in your difficulty settings. world tour is where adaptive AI kicks in

#174 Posted by matt_wickstrom (156 posts) -

@Renahzor said:

@matt_wickstrom: From the event list, the AI is simply whichever of the (i think) 5 levels you pick in your difficulty settings. world tour is where adaptive AI kicks in

Thanks. Looks like I'm gonna have to start playing World Tour now. I had been playing with the AI set at Professional difficulty, but I'd still run away from them every race.

#175 Posted by Falconer (1695 posts) -

@Renahzor: @mfpantst: I do use rewind whenever I please, so maybe that's my problem. For the way I drive, I like to have it when I end up fucking up a turn or ram into an AI that braked way too much for a turn (or rammed into me because they decided it would be a good idea to dive bomb me, but are terrible at it, and overshoot into me).

As for the AI holding it's line. I still think that's a by-product of the AI being terrible. The AI isn't aware of where you are, so they're stuck on their set track around the circuit. If you're in the way of that track, too bad.

#176 Posted by mfpantst (2574 posts) -
@ShaggyChu: Ahh that would make sense why your last seasons experiences differed from mine so far.  I've felt like the cars have unusually known where I was in relation to them however.  Although that has alot to do with the last game I played that was like this was GT4 where the cars never fucking knew where I was.  The things I have seen that seem to indicate the cars knowing where I am is brake checks when I'm tailing, cutting an exit wide (or shallow) to the point of putting wheels on dirt to edge me out of my line, and adjusting their line as i pass to waiver over into my race line, forcing me to brake or swerve.  
All this being said, since I'm a gran turismo guy up until now, maybe for me the AI is awesome, but for you it's terrible because I'm used to essentially no AI.
#177 Posted by wrathofconn (1463 posts) -

@ShaggyChu said:

@Renahzor: @mfpantst: I do use rewind whenever I please, so maybe that's my problem. For the way I drive, I like to have it when I end up fucking up a turn or ram into an AI that braked way too much for a turn (or rammed into me because they decided it would be a good idea to dive bomb me, but are terrible at it, and overshoot into me).

As for the AI holding it's line. I still think that's a by-product of the AI being terrible. The AI isn't aware of where you are, so they're stuck on their set track around the circuit. If you're in the way of that track, too bad.

Yeah, especially when you're on a straight and they nose into your rear end and spin you out. I think it's way more hilarious when you ram into one of them on a straightaway and then rewind and then they proceed to stop dead in the middle of the track despite not having been in an accident.

#178 Posted by mfpantst (2574 posts) -
@wrathofconn: That happens?  i need to check the rewind out every once in a while.
#179 Posted by wrathofconn (1463 posts) -

@mfpantst said:

@wrathofconn: That happens? i need to check the rewind out every once in a while.

Yeah, it's pretty awesome. A lot of times they'll immediately miss a turn that they nailed the first time too.

When PsEG was doing his four-hour races over the weekend, I think that was breaking the AI as well. I don't know if it was because they were too dumb to pit or if it was bugging out on our end, but cars were just stopping on the track after that final hairpin at Infineon.

#180 Posted by mfpantst (2574 posts) -
@wrathofconn: Cool.  I did notice the AI has trouble with longer lap races.  On a 15 minute race on one of the small ovals in R1 Audis, the first time through after like 8 laps all hell broke loose and cars started flipping and running into walls and the race went to shit.  The second time i ran that race everything went fine except like 2 cars lost it in the last few laps.
#181 Posted by MikkaQ (10319 posts) -

6 and a half hours till the race night, better get cracking on the world tour. I'm a good 3 seasons away.

#182 Posted by slowbird (1737 posts) -

@ShaggyChu: On the contrary, the AI knows exactly where you are, and they want to run you off the road so you can't win. XD

#183 Posted by Falconer (1695 posts) -

@slowbird: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

#184 Posted by matt_wickstrom (156 posts) -

I'll be on tonight to join in on the race night fun. I've been having some internet troubles recently, so if I begin to lag or cause any problems, I'll happily leave and try to get everything sorted out for next week. I have plenty to do in Career so if I can't race with you guys I'll still at least have something to keep me busy.

#185 Posted by RandomHero666 (3181 posts) -

@mfpantst said:

@wrathofconn: Cool. I did notice the AI has trouble with longer lap races. On a 15 minute race on one of the small ovals in R1 Audis, the first time through after like 8 laps all hell broke loose and cars started flipping and running into walls and the race went to shit. The second time i ran that race everything went fine except like 2 cars lost it in the last few laps.

Oh god.. that race was horrifying.

On like the 10th lap I came across about 8 of them overturned or creeping toward the pit to repair lol, watched the replay and they rode the whole wall on the bend coming up to the finish, ended up on their side then slowly slid down to the inside on their sides, taking out any other cars that were passing

#186 Posted by MrRedwine (430 posts) -

I was looking forward to race night tonight.

When I got home from work, my Xbox said that my live account needed to be recovered.

When I recovered it... someone had been playing Fifa 12 and all my MS Points were gone (1999 of them because Bestbuy had just reimbursed me for not giving me the LCE I ordered)

Everyone, call Microsoft and tell them you want to get your credit card dissociated from your account.

#187 Posted by RandomHero666 (3181 posts) -

@MrRedwine: That suck man sorry to hear, been happening to a lot of people I hear so you should be able to get them back off MS

#188 Posted by Devil240Z (3399 posts) -

Hey all. I'm new but I am online if there is any room tonight. I am friends with the GB forza account so you should be able to find me my GT is the same name as here.

#189 Edited by Devil240Z (3399 posts) -

@PsEG: I accepted the invite but it didn't work. I have no idea how to contact you on XBL so I guess I will try again next week.

man one shot and I'm screwed because of a network error.

#190 Posted by Falconer (1695 posts) -

Someone isn't a fan of dead baby jokes...

#191 Posted by j3ffro919 (243 posts) -

Did it get ugly after I left? I couldn't get into the new lobby and 5 am comes early. Good times tonight, though I feel a bit outta my league. Sorry to whomever got hosed near the end of the timed race with stock cars, I had previously wrecked and was trying to get out of the way.

#192 Posted by RandomHero666 (3181 posts) -

That was fun even though my sleeping pattern will be fucked for a few days, Especially clunker. Shame about the futball and Tag messing up.

I can now finish my book: 1001 uses for dead babies

Thanks, and sorry for not talking much(at all)

#193 Edited by HayFourZee (362 posts) -

I was looking at the Fanatec forums and found a thread with a reason and solution to the no money wheel glitch. Don't know if any of you have already see or tried this but here it is anyway.

FM4 "no rewards" issue UPDATE: Solution

Submitted by Thomas on Mon, 10/17/2011 - 05:21.

UPDATE

Fanatec wheels are too good to be true?

Thanks to the great feedback. Because of your feedback we have been able to reproduce it. It always happens if you do an extreme clean lap without any countersteering. The most easy way to reproduce it is on an oval.

Special thanks to our members FakeThinkpad and kartman21 who detected the solution.

What happens? The Fanatec wheels allow minimal movements of the steering wheel and extreme precise manouvers so that the game apparantly thinks that the user must be cheating as this cannot be achieved by a human.

The better you drive the more often it happens. It is independent from the steering angle but a clean lap is more likely if you use higher sensitivity like 900°. In theory it can happen with a controller or other wheel as well but so far I was not able to proof that because it is hard for me to drive clean without our wheels. ;)

Solution:

1. Make sure that you make at least one drift with countersteering per race

2. Reduce your steering angle to 270° to emulate the MS wheel which makes it harder to drive clean but avoids the issue more likely.

Of course, T10 is working on a patch to solve this issue but it takes time until those things go through all internal testing so please be a little bit patient.

#194 Edited by Jugnutts (436 posts) -
#195 Posted by Falconer (1695 posts) -

So when coming out of turn 2 on Indy, off to the right outside the track there's there neat working fountain that you can see. I thought that was cool.

#196 Posted by slowbird (1737 posts) -

Sweet! I'll just drive wildly out of control like I always do and I won't get the wheel glitch! :D Still gotta find a place to mount it >_<

#197 Edited by wrathofconn (1463 posts) -

@slowbird: *Obligatory Race Night joke about your mom and mounting.*

#198 Posted by slowbird (1737 posts) -

@wrathofconn: I'm giving you a round of applause for that. *applauds*

#199 Posted by HayFourZee (362 posts) -
#200 Posted by Falconer (1695 posts) -

Looks like Turn 10 totally fucked up on sending out the pre-order email cars. You should probably bug them about that if you don't get them by next week.

In other news, after their first game with devs event, the M3 GTR is still not out in the wild. Hopefully there aren't too many douches on the official forum, and I can just throw two or three of my unicorns at someone for a GTR when they do show up.

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