“I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space.”

http://allthingsd.com/20120725/valves-gabe-newell-on-the-future-of-games-wearable-computers-windows-8-and-more/

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/07/25/gabe-newell-i-think-windows-8-is-a-catastrophe-for-everyone-in-the-pc-space/

Gabe discusses his maybe controversial opinions on Windows 8 and the PC.

I partly agree if Windows 8 does in fact become a closed platform, a lot of what Gabe has said is very much possible.

BLARH I CANT TYPE CATASTROPHE.

He had a similar negative viewpoint about the PS3 before he changed his mind. Take it with a grain of salt.

Is there video of this interview?

We have a kid in Kansas making $150,000 a year making [virtual] hats. But that’s just a starting point.”

dafuq?

We have a kid in Kansas making $150,000 a year making [virtual] hats. But that’s just a starting point.”

dafuq?

It can't be worse than Vista.

It's hardly a controversial viewpoint, don't most people think it's going to bomb?

I bet it'll be just fine.

People said Vista and ME would be fine too. I honestly don't know where the thing I know for sure is that the consumer is very fickle where they can easily accept and reject Win 8. Personally I think regardless of what is in Win 8 I don't think desktop PC sales are going to come back to levels seen ~2005.

@Shady: Was Vista worse than Windows ME? I was using a mac during the time of Vista and when I got back to the PC it was Windows 7 time. I remember ME being pretty terrible though.

He had a similar negative viewpoint about the PS3 before he changed his mind. Take it with a grain of salt.

@ShiftyMagician said:

He had a similar negative viewpoint about the PS3 before he changed his mind. Take it with a grain of salt.

He also had a positive viewpoint on the 360... before also giving it the switcharooni.

I tried the Windows 8 beta. Pretty? Yes. Necessary? For anything that isn't a tablet, no. I hope that they can coincide instead of MS trying to sell nothing but 8 on everything. I wish they would stick with 7 for as long as they did XP, 7 is a great operating system.

Game Newell thinks a lot of things. What matters is what ends up done at Valve and I highly doubt they're going to do anything to how they currently treat Microsoft's OS.

I love the Gaben. Dude is hella smart and an example of an intelligent and conscientious but still wildly successful businessman.

If it tries too hard to turn my desktop PC into a tablet interface, yeah I think that will be a problem. Windows 7 turned out pretty great in my opinion, but I'm afraid trying to go too niche with the interface of 8 will alienate most of the less savvy users as well as plenty of the regulars. I don't really care too much in the end because I currently have zero reason to move on from Windows 7.

I think there will be a shell hack for it day and date of lunch that will bring windows back to something people are familiar with, I don't see the reason they are taking off the start button and using a hot corner on the PC version there is several videos of people using it for the first time who don't know anything about it and they all have to be told how to get to their program shortcuts which is pretty much the worst thing that I could thing of. I think there will be a huge uptake in the use of things like launchy(I know I'll be using something like this if not it) because of how jarring it is to get a fullscreen menu just to start something quickly.

Gabe can say it will be a bad thing for PCs but he know where his bread gets buttered and there will have to be a win8 version (thought I'm pretty sure the current one will work fine)

I'm done with Windows. I'm ready to switch when the games do.

@Jams said:

I'm done with Windows. I'm ready to switch when the games do.

Steam for Ubuntu man, free OS's for all!

I'm still happy with my Windows XP. Yes, XP.

There's no reason for me to run Windows except for the latest / AAA game releases. If those establish a presence on Linux thanks to Steam, then I won't have to dual-boot anything anymore. :)

@Paul_Is_Drunk said:

@ShiftyMagician

He had a similar negative viewpoint about the PS3 before he changed his mind. Take it with a grain of salt.

He said that it was difficult to program for, which is a pretty common viewpoint in the development comunity. That's why the rumor that Sony is droping the cell infrastructure on the next Playstation is so strong that even the GB crew mentions it.

Oh yea it was. As great in concept the cell processor was their next choice in CPU needs to be both powerful and is reasonable to develop for. If they try the cell again they need to make it easier to develop for and provide better support for developers. Will they do it right next time though? Who knows.

@believer258 said:

@ShiftyMagician said:

He had a similar negative viewpoint about the PS3 before he changed his mind. Take it with a grain of salt.

He also had a positive viewpoint on the 360... before also giving it the switcharooni.

I tried the Windows 8 beta. Pretty? Yes. Necessary? For anything that isn't a tablet, no. I hope that they can coincide instead of MS trying to sell nothing but 8 on everything. I wish they would stick with 7 for as long as they did XP, 7 is a great operating system.

All Windows computers being sold will have 8 once it releases. It would be wishful thinking to think otherwise. I also agree that 7 is a great operating system and that there isn't much I want from 8 at the moment. That will change on release if reviews are solid and there are enough little things that I would find useful enough to make the switch.

Guys the point I was simply making was not that I disagree with his statements and you should blindly ignore them, but that I rather take the mindset of just seeing what people have to say without taking a side on it, see how Windows 8 really works once it hits retail, see reviews of the final build that consumers will be using, then make an informed opinion later. Sure Gabe has to have seen the current Windows builds and as a businessman himself he has to know the upcoming platform and make choices early on. However not even he has a golden track-record of being correct 100% and cases where he was correct will never make up for it. Same goes for literally anyone else about anything that isn't finished. Also his calculated guess from his experience and what he's seen so far will always be just a guess, even if he has to make business decisions based on it. If he turns out to be right then fine, but if not then fine as well.

At the very least his attitude on the matter is that he is now interested in making Steam and at least future games work on Linux (Ubuntu at least), which to me is a great move and will make Linux one step closer to being a viable operating system for many gamers and consumers in general (I agree with Gabe that games have become a key factor for OS choice for many consumers). It will also allow Valve to have an open platform to fall back on if his worst-case scenario of Microsoft and Apple closing their platforms even further becomes a reality.

I hope Windows 8 turns out good and Metro isn't a real bother, but I won't really know until it has released and even after that when it is allowed to work and update for a reasonable time after launch (I never expect an OS launch to go smoothly personally). Worst-case scenario for me is that I still work on Windows 7 and that isn't a bad worst-case scenario to have at all.

@ShiftyMagician: I'm just tired of Windows to be honest. I've used Linux a number of times and have to switch back every time just because of gaming. Windows 8 just seems like a completely unnecessary upgrade from 7. There are no real improvements other than a skin update. The time I spent with the preview build was pretty bad. I had a hard time getting anything done and working good and I don't chalk it up to just not being used to the layout, but bad design choices. I think they finally mastered the user interface with 7 and from here on they should have just had updates they make windows more reliable and stable with new features. Don't even get me started on how every iteration of the OS locks more and more down. It's hard enough trying to use one copy of windows while I upgrade my pc. Now I have to worry about motherboards not letting me install Linux? That might be a scare tactic, but it's a real possibility.

That's why I'm ready to switch to Linux or if Steam becomes its own OS, I'm down with that too.

The PS3 deal is different from this. This is Microsoft wanting to Xbox Live Windows, including helluva control over what happens to float into what Steam's doing.
 
If it ends up fucking with their business remains to be seen of course.

@Jams said:

@ShiftyMagician: I'm just tired of Windows to be honest. I've used Linux a number of times and have to switch back every time just because of gaming. Windows 8 just seems like a completely unnecessary upgrade from 7. There are no real improvements other than a skin update. The time I spent with the preview build was pretty bad. I had a hard time getting anything done and working good and I don't chalk it up to just not being used to the layout, but bad design choices. I think they finally mastered the user interface with 7 and from here on they should have just had updates they make windows more reliable and stable with new features. Don't even get me started on how every iteration of the OS locks more and more down. It's hard enough trying to use one copy of windows while I upgrade my pc. Now I have to worry about motherboards not letting me install Linux? That might be a scare tactic, but it's a real possibility.

That's why I'm ready to switch to Linux or if Steam becomes its own OS, I'm down with that too.

what was giving you a hard time and stopping you from working good.

@MikeGosot said:

I'm still happy with my Windows XP. Yes, XP.

Me too. I never saw the need or desire to upgrade to Vista or Win7.

People talk about Steve Jobs as some kind of great visionary, but if Valve is actually going to try and promote Linux as a common computing platform then that's about a billion times more impressive and forward thinking than charging people 50 bucks for a USB port. I'm really interested to see how well this works out.

@djames216 said:

@MikeGosot said:

I'm still happy with my Windows XP. Yes, XP.

Me too. I never saw the need or desire to upgrade to Vista or Win7.

Well, if you cats game there are increasingly games that don't support XP anymore.

@Demoskinos said:

@djames216 said:

@MikeGosot said:

I'm still happy with my Windows XP. Yes, XP.

Me too. I never saw the need or desire to upgrade to Vista or Win7.

Well, if you cats game there are increasingly games that don't support XP anymore.

I have yet to come across a game that I want that doesn't support XP. I'm well aware that I will eventually be nudged into upgrading to Win7 or something because of a lack of support for XP though.

@djames216 said:

@Demoskinos said:

@djames216 said:

@MikeGosot said:

I'm still happy with my Windows XP. Yes, XP.

Me too. I never saw the need or desire to upgrade to Vista or Win7.

Well, if you cats game there are increasingly games that don't support XP anymore.

I have yet to come across a game that I want that doesn't support XP. I'm well aware that I will eventually be nudged into upgrading to Win7 or something because of a lack of support for XP though.

Yeah, its not a HUGE list yet but it is growing. Personally I really dig Win7 a lot of the little tweaks are neat. I know a few other people though that are XP hold outs as well though.

Gabe Newell also thinks it's a good idea not to release Half-Life 3.

every version of windows has its detractors. every single one. who cares.

Most of the talk has been positive for Windows 8, from what I've read anyway. Even Tested seem to like it. The Metro thing could totally back fire and if it does and Metro is terrible all you will have is another average version of Windows and we can all wait for the next one. Newell just doesn't like closed systems which is what he thinks Windows will turn into because of the Windows Store, that is built into 8 like the App store is built into Mac OS. More realistically though Steam is going to start selling all kinds of software soon and Newell sees the Windows store as direct competition to Steam. The store so far can only sell Metro applications but that could easily change and then you have MS going to toe to toe with Valve.

I think he is totally wrong and your fooling yourself if you think that he cares about anything other than Steam. Its the same reason that after all the shit he talked about the PS3 he still went out and said it was great because they let him put Steam on it. Unless he backs Ubuntu in a huge way no one is going to flock to it from Windows because of a UI that can probably be disabled.

And yet your company is really profitable by selling games for windows.....Stop worrying about this and put your effort behind HL3

@Jams said:

@ShiftyMagician: I'm just tired of Windows to be honest. I've used Linux a number of times and have to switch back every time just because of gaming. Windows 8 just seems like a completely unnecessary upgrade from 7. There are no real improvements other than a skin update. The time I spent with the preview build was pretty bad. I had a hard time getting anything done and working good and I don't chalk it up to just not being used to the layout, but bad design choices. I think they finally mastered the user interface with 7 and from here on they should have just had updates they make windows more reliable and stable with new features. Don't even get me started on how every iteration of the OS locks more and more down. It's hard enough trying to use one copy of windows while I upgrade my pc. Now I have to worry about motherboards not letting me install Linux? That might be a scare tactic, but it's a real possibility.

That's why I'm ready to switch to Linux or if Steam becomes its own OS, I'm down with that too.

Whats wrong with Windows? I've used it all my life from WIndows 3.1, 98, XP and now 7 and the experience has been great

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Jams said:

@ShiftyMagician: I'm just tired of Windows to be honest. I've used Linux a number of times and have to switch back every time just because of gaming. Windows 8 just seems like a completely unnecessary upgrade from 7. There are no real improvements other than a skin update. The time I spent with the preview build was pretty bad. I had a hard time getting anything done and working good and I don't chalk it up to just not being used to the layout, but bad design choices. I think they finally mastered the user interface with 7 and from here on they should have just had updates they make windows more reliable and stable with new features. Don't even get me started on how every iteration of the OS locks more and more down. It's hard enough trying to use one copy of windows while I upgrade my pc. Now I have to worry about motherboards not letting me install Linux? That might be a scare tactic, but it's a real possibility.

That's why I'm ready to switch to Linux or if Steam becomes its own OS, I'm down with that too.

Whats wrong with Windows? I've used it all my life from WIndows 3.1, 98, XP and now 7 and the experience has been great

Until a virus fucks it all up...or this

awkward. Anyway, I don't know if it'll be a catastrophe, but I certainly won't be upgrading (downgrading) to it any time soon. I have a feeling that most Windows users will do the same.

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Jams said:

@ShiftyMagician: I'm just tired of Windows to be honest. I've used Linux a number of times and have to switch back every time just because of gaming. Windows 8 just seems like a completely unnecessary upgrade from 7. There are no real improvements other than a skin update. The time I spent with the preview build was pretty bad. I had a hard time getting anything done and working good and I don't chalk it up to just not being used to the layout, but bad design choices. I think they finally mastered the user interface with 7 and from here on they should have just had updates they make windows more reliable and stable with new features. Don't even get me started on how every iteration of the OS locks more and more down. It's hard enough trying to use one copy of windows while I upgrade my pc. Now I have to worry about motherboards not letting me install Linux? That might be a scare tactic, but it's a real possibility.

That's why I'm ready to switch to Linux or if Steam becomes its own OS, I'm down with that too.

Whats wrong with Windows? I've used it all my life from WIndows 3.1, 98, XP and now 7 and the experience has been great

Until a virus fucks it all up...or this

awkward. Anyway, I don't know if it'll be a catastrophe, but I certainly won't be upgrading (downgrading) to it any time soon. I have a feeling that most Windows users will do the same.

Haha yeah I wont be getting 8 like I didnt get vista MS just releases OS's too soon. 7 is great and have never had one problem with it.

Please Mr. Newell let me get rid of this Win7 partition, that´s all I want for christmas this year.

I have absolutely no complaints about Windows 7. Works great.

@Bell_End said:

@Jams said:

@ShiftyMagician: I'm just tired of Windows to be honest. I've used Linux a number of times and have to switch back every time just because of gaming. Windows 8 just seems like a completely unnecessary upgrade from 7. There are no real improvements other than a skin update. The time I spent with the preview build was pretty bad. I had a hard time getting anything done and working good and I don't chalk it up to just not being used to the layout, but bad design choices. I think they finally mastered the user interface with 7 and from here on they should have just had updates they make windows more reliable and stable with new features. Don't even get me started on how every iteration of the OS locks more and more down. It's hard enough trying to use one copy of windows while I upgrade my pc. Now I have to worry about motherboards not letting me install Linux? That might be a scare tactic, but it's a real possibility.

That's why I'm ready to switch to Linux or if Steam becomes its own OS, I'm down with that too.

what was giving you a hard time and stopping you from working good.

It's been a while and I didn't use it for long but I remember trying to find some setting for something and I couldn't for the life of me find it. Then I messed something up with the UI and couldn't figure out how to fix it. Sorry I can't remember specifics because I didn't try it for too long.@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Jams said:

@ShiftyMagician: I'm just tired of Windows to be honest. I've used Linux a number of times and have to switch back every time just because of gaming. Windows 8 just seems like a completely unnecessary upgrade from 7. There are no real improvements other than a skin update. The time I spent with the preview build was pretty bad. I had a hard time getting anything done and working good and I don't chalk it up to just not being used to the layout, but bad design choices. I think they finally mastered the user interface with 7 and from here on they should have just had updates they make windows more reliable and stable with new features. Don't even get me started on how every iteration of the OS locks more and more down. It's hard enough trying to use one copy of windows while I upgrade my pc. Now I have to worry about motherboards not letting me install Linux? That might be a scare tactic, but it's a real possibility.

That's why I'm ready to switch to Linux or if Steam becomes its own OS, I'm down with that too.

Whats wrong with Windows? I've used it all my life from WIndows 3.1, 98, XP and now 7 and the experience has been great

I've used windows since dual booting 3.1 and DOS too and loved every way (yes I liked ME if not just for their wallpapers :P ) but I just don't like the direction the OS is going. Less "what can we do to improve the OS" and more "how can we change this and that to make more money". They're going to get their money from a new OS, but instead of trying to make it good they're coming up with little schemes to squeeze out every last cent and I think it's going to eventually backfire. Maybe not with 8, but sooner or later.

I think Gabe N. knows this too. Especially since he worked at MS for so long. That's why he's planning way ahead. I don't think anything big will come out of Steam on Linux for a good while. If it gains ground it'll be around when Windows 9 or 10 comes around. By that time, Steam and Linux will both be more developed and polished and ready for if and when MS decided to really lock down their system. I think it's a really smart and beneficial business move that both helps Valve and their consumers.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I just recently had to reformat and reinstall 7. What started happening was when the start screen comes up, I couldn't type in my password and it would just hang there. Sometimes it would work and the login would start, but the screen would stay black until I restarted. Nothing would fix this and I found out it had something to do with windows just corrupting. I couldn't system restore or anything. That's when I successfully retried Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. Everything was ready and I got all my stuff installed and everything was working great. I even got stuff running in Wine. But even the native Linux version of Humble Indie Bundle games ran like shit. So I just switched back.

While I don't mind Steam making its way to Ubuntu, the problem will be the major game developers making game for it, and no, using Wine to run the games doesn't count.

@Jams said:

But even the native Linux version of Humble Indie Bundle games ran like shit. So I just switched back.

That's been my biggest beef with Linux. Even when games and programs (such as Libre Office) are made natively for it, they never run quite as well as Windows versions.

Been dual booting Ubuntu 12.04 and Windows 8 on my laptop for a few months now, and honestly, they're both fine for me. People bitch about the start screen in 8, and make it sound like the desktop isn't there, which is complete bull. Hell, it runs faster and starts quicker than it did with 7, which I'm alright with considering I got the laptop 5 years ago. It's a good mobile/laptop OS, but I'll be sticking with 7 as my desktop for now until I build a new one. Hopefully Microsoft will iron out most of the quirks 8 will have on release by then.

I don't care what Gabe says about consoles, but when the dude talks PC, it's time to listen.

Windows 7 is great, if MS does go that way, then my next upgrade will probably be Linux.

we shall see.

@Adaurin: Vista was pretty terrible, like most Microsoft OS's, up until SP1. Then it was fine and occasionally pretty good, like most Microsoft OS's. 7 is probably the best they've done.

Between that and the programs I use for work finally showing up on OSX, I'm not feeling the necessity of any major OS updates right now. Metro seems like it'll be useful for certain users, but I'm unfortunately not one of them.

Windows Eight is garbage anyway, from what I've seen. Was hoping they would reinvent their OS. I guess it's just much easier to bolt a shitload of new stuff onto old, outdated, clunky shit.

@Butano: People always make it out as if Microsoft was trying to deprecate the desktop, saying "in a couple of releases, we won't even have a desktop!" It's pretty silly.

Also, the new Task Manager is pretty great. Nice graphs for performance (CPU[combined or by core], memory, individual drive activity, network), more informative process and service views, and a handy startup process analysis/configuration tab.

The last time I tried to use Ubuntu (which was five years ago, so my knowledge is likely way out of date) I couldn't get sound drivers at all, and a number of other drivers were somewhat tricky to track down, requiring me to go into the console and run commands there. Fine, I can use a UNIX-type console. I'm a software developer. But if I just want to surf the internet, that's not a reasonable expectation. I shouldn't have to find an ethernet cable to plug in my laptop so that I can google the commands to download drivers for my wireless card. And even after getting my wireless card working, I still wasn't going to use a computer without sound, so I went right back to windows anyway.

Maybe things have gotten better since then, but I was soured on the experience, and there isn't anything Linux-exclusive pulling me back.

@Scrawnto said:

@Butano: People always make it out as if Microsoft was trying to deprecate the desktop, saying "in a couple of releases, we won't even have a desktop!" It's pretty silly.

Also, the new Task Manager is pretty great. Nice graphs for performance (CPU[combined or by core], memory, individual drive activity, network), more informative process and service views, and a handy startup process analysis/configuration tab.

The last time I tried to use Ubuntu (which was five years ago, so my knowledge is likely way out of date) I couldn't get sound drivers at all, and a number of other drivers were somewhat tricky to track down, requiring me to go into the console and run commands there. Fine, I can use a UNIX-type console. I'm a software developer. But if I just want to surf the internet, that's not a reasonable expectation. I shouldn't have to find an ethernet cable to plug in my laptop so that I can google the commands to download drivers for my wireless card. And even after getting my wireless card working, I still wasn't going to use a computer without sound, so I went right back to windows anyway.

Maybe things have gotten better since then, but I was soured on the experience, and there isn't anything Linux-exclusive pulling me back.

This. The consuming public will just give up on desktops entirely, moving to consoles and mobile devices, before they switch en masse to linux. Its a geek wet dream and it will never come true. People don't care if customization takes a back seat, they just want something pretty and simple to use. Thus, Apple.

@Napalm said:

I guess it's just much easier to bolt a shitload of new stuff onto old, outdated, clunky shit.

Not a lot of it screams outdated to me, except for the lack of virtual desktop support and half-assed laptop gestures. Use both 7 and OS X every day, prefer OS X but Windows doesn't stand out as bad in comparison, just different.

8 does seem pretty terrible though.

@Sooty: Tested's preview single-handedly unsold me on Windows 8. They were like, "there's this cool Metro stuff, and HERE'S THE START MENU AS YOU KNOW IT WITH ALL OF OLD SHIT YOU REMEMBER THAT YOU WISH PROBABLY DIDN'T EXIST BECAUSE IT'S ANTIQUATED AS FUCK."

@Napalm said:

@Sooty: Tested's preview single-handedly unsold me on Windows 8. They were like, "there's this cool Metro stuff, and HERE'S THE START MENU AS YOU KNOW IT WITH ALL OF OLD SHIT YOU REMEMBER THAT YOU WISH PROBABLY DIDN'T EXIST BECAUSE IT'S ANTIQUATED AS FUCK."

Microsoft should just hire these guys and then anybody complaining about the start menu changes wouldn't give it a shit, it's probably my favourite thing about OS X, the Windows wannabe versions are pretty crap.

Well that is all I use the start menu for anyway, app launching with the keyboard, Alfred lets you do a shit ton from a key binding...incredibly quick too.

@Sooty said:

@Napalm said:

@Sooty: Tested's preview single-handedly unsold me on Windows 8. They were like, "there's this cool Metro stuff, and HERE'S THE START MENU AS YOU KNOW IT WITH ALL OF OLD SHIT YOU REMEMBER THAT YOU WISH PROBABLY DIDN'T EXIST BECAUSE IT'S ANTIQUATED AS FUCK."

Microsoft should just hire these guys and then anybody complaining about the start menu changes wouldn't give it a shit, it's probably my favourite thing about OS X, the Windows wannabe versions are pretty crap.

Well that is all I use the start menu for anyway, app launching with the keyboard, Alfred lets you do a shit ton from a key binding...incredibly quick too.

App launching with the keyboard? Dude, your (OSX) desktop is right there, and it's literally two clicks to get the application folder.

@Napalm: One Dave Snider himself said Alfred was the single greatest productivity increasing tool available. There's more to it than that.